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 This thread has been declared a NO OWN ZONE. Don't quote posters takes to own them unless they're being supremely annoying. We're just trying to have a discussion! It's nearly March, the days of NBA doldrums and hot NCAA prospect action. It's time to consider who'll be the future stars and workaday dawgs of the league. This year is considered a somewhat down year because of the lack of tier 1 can't miss elite super elite prospects. However it's rich in big depth, something the last few drafts have lacked. Here's the consensus 2022 Mock, as of Feb 19, compiled by rookiescale     Paywalled draft information resources: Jonathon Givony and Mike Schmitz of espn, Sam Vecenie at the Athletic Free draft info resources: a lot of places, but the stepien will give you the most bang and text for your buck. Some people might suggest the ringer, but Kevin Oconnor and Jonathan Tjarks are not top tier draft guys Podcast references: various sam vecenie appearances on The Athletic NBA podcast can be hunted out, same with schmitz and givony on espn family podcasts. If you want to dig deep and like the thick richness of the prep2pro nba pod, check out the stepien NBA draft show and "Tag the Roll" which may feature more names you're familiar with Got a take? Got a question? Found a good interview or scouting video? 
Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2022 09:28
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I really like Sam Vecenie for draft talk, but he often has the worst guests to speak to. I sat down to start recording games to watch and got distracted and now a month has passed. I’ve mainly just enjoyed the aesthetics of Arizona holding their opponents to 25 point second halves most of the season. Ben Mathurin is of course the guy I have seen the most and he is nearly a complete 3 and D package. I don’t think he is an all star but he could have a long career. There were lots of questions about the motor year 1 but I feel like he has answered that this year. The one prospect I still don’t get why he hasn’t caught on to national eyes is Christian Koloko. I think he is an NBA big.
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Feb 19, 2022 09:51
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I've only watched a few Holmgren games, he looked good but I thought he wasn't in the first overall range because people didn't like his frame and handle. Has he been playing on a level that's been pushing him up the board?
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Feb 19, 2022 09:56
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Bip Roberts posted:I've only watched a few Holmgren games, he looked good but I thought he wasn't in the first overall range because people didn't like his frame and handle. Has he been playing on a level that's been pushing him up the board? I wouldn’t worry too much about the specific numbers right now, because it’s a composite of 1 million boards including guys who are just guys in the world. I think his real range is some thing like 2 to 3 right now What you hear again and again is, everyone is worried about his strength against NBA players, but it’s literally never been a problem yet The handle is a concern, you see it time and again with these skilled tall guys. Evan Mobley's offense has sort of been shut down this season because defenders realized they just had to make it uncomfortable for him to dribble. Elite guys fold their spines up in a seemingly painful way to make this tactic fail, like Kevin Durant, who also uses his insane arm length/stride length and underrated mobility to squat down/lean over and over. Both also are great at lulling a defender to sleep and then moving off beat. Jokic loves to go slowww slooww then super fast. Jokic tends to bend down at the waist and use his huge size to shield the ball, picking it behind his back and through his legs. So ball handling when you have size is about finding what unique advantages your body type provides + the normal skill and craft of the handle. Chet has obviously more of a Durantian body, so you'd like to see him use that, he seems to have a high pain threshold because he's always tucking his body awkwardly, you could include that in the handle to a larger extent, of course you have to worry about injury with that sort of extreme leverage on some long thin pieces. It's definitely something to pay attention to. Good question Edit Just realized I didn’t describe chets ball handling at all. I’ll Do it tomorrow Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 10:17
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I think Chet is the rare guy where you actually want to wait on the tournament to evaluate him.
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Feb 19, 2022 10:23
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I replace this tweet with one without a long ad on it and by a professional journalist when they get around to uploading it but since it hasn't happened yet, I will take matters into my own hands: https://twitter.com/SlammerMaster/status/1495274389918523400 Christian Koloko is one of the best defenders in college ball I swear this to you.
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Feb 20, 2022 06:52
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Why's Tshiebwe not on that list? Am I just missing him?
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Feb 20, 2022 16:18
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Rick posted:I think Chet is the rare guy where you actually want to wait on the tournament to evaluate him. How do you mean?
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Feb 20, 2022 16:20
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Probably Magic posted:Why's Tshiebwe not on that list? Am I just missing him? Probably Magic posted:Why's Tshiebwe not on that list? Am I just missing him?
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Feb 20, 2022 20:57
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DeimosRising posted:How do you mean? I have kind of fallen out of love on evaluating how Gonzaga players look against the competition that Gonzaga mainly plays in the regular season. Also I want to see if he has another gear.
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Feb 21, 2022 02:57
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I watch between 0 and 15 Gonzaga games a season and know nothing about the draft really and am therefore prepared to give Chet Holmgren the Dutchy Seal of Approval Stone Cold Lock This Gonzaga Player Will Actually Be Good in The NBA Guarantee, an honor I have only bestowed once previously, to Baby Sabonis
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Feb 21, 2022 03:19
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chet will be fine but lmao at 7’0 sub 200 pounds embiid would launch him into orbit
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Feb 21, 2022 19:37
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Declan MacManus posted:chet will be fine but lmao at 7’0 sub 200 pounds Maybe New Orleans can draft him and they can get him to steal half of Zions food.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:47
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PD Web on "Tag the Roller" podcast was pointing out that paolo banchero used to be a quick decision maker smart passer then the pandemic happened, shut down high level bball on the west coast, and he came to college as a jab step jab step jab step slow thinking guy. He had no high level game reps for his think piece (brain). And was talking generally about how this is the first of the pandemic crippled loser generations of lovely prospects, not in those words of course
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Feb 21, 2022 19:55
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Dejan Bimble posted:Dunno. Seen him 40 to 50 in other places The one game I saw him play, it felt like he was the best player on Kentucky, just able to bang his way to getting rebounds and the like however he pleased. Of course, this was against a Kansas team with negligible interior presence, but still, I swear I've seen Player of the Year stuff floating around about him. Or I'm crazy.
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Feb 21, 2022 21:47
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Probably Magic posted:The one game I saw him play, it felt like he was the best player on Kentucky, just able to bang his way to getting rebounds and the like however he pleased. Of course, this was against a Kansas team with negligible interior presence, but still, I swear I've seen Player of the Year stuff floating around about him. Or I'm crazy. He has a lot of Isaiah Stewart in him, basically the same measurements and similar all hustle rebounding and defensive game. Its possible that he could be a late riser like Stewart was and end up in the first round. I think it depends on how much scouts like his attitude and so on, that was a big reason Stewart went so high. Of course he's a junior and there's some man against boys stuff. Some guys were a bit down on him for reasons I don't understand. Obviously he's matured to more of a 'play finisher' than a total nothing like he was at WVU on offense Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 22:06
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Oscar is too old for the nba and should stay in school.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:17
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Dutchy posted:I watch between 0 and 15 Gonzaga games a season and know nothing about the draft really and am therefore prepared to give Chet Holmgren the Dutchy Seal of Approval Stone Cold Lock This Gonzaga Player Will Actually Be Good in The NBA Guarantee, an honor I have only bestowed once previously, to Baby Sabonis Brandon Clarke Defense Squad assemble!
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Feb 21, 2022 22:38
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This is a Brandon Clarke Love Zone.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:05
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Maybe the pandemic also hosed up Brandon Clarke, seeing what happened to him last year
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Feb 21, 2022 23:12
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I'm not anti-Brandon Clarke but his Gonzaga season was a year I watched 0 Gonzaga games and so he could not be in good conscience awarded the DSOASCLTGPWABGITNBAG
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Feb 21, 2022 23:19
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https://twitter.com/fra_sempru/status/1497211962173833224 Tease of 2023
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Feb 26, 2022 02:48
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Watching some tape of Ismael Kamagate after hearing about him on a podcasts mark me down as a big fan
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Mar 4, 2022 23:48
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Per PD Webs comments, I really don’t think it’s an accident that both this NBA draft class and the NFL draft class are really bad. I think it’s an obvious example of losing game reps from the pandemic hurting guys development.
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Mar 5, 2022 21:42
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There's a weird pattern going back 10 years in the draft where the best player is either 1st pick, somewhere between 10th-14th pick, or somewhere betwee 30th-41st pick some combo of 1,2,3 are in those ranges and its like first pick can by any position, 10-14 is boom bust wing and 2nd round is super skilled guy, but this stops after 2017. Maybe scouting improves here Teams should have like 6 tenured scouts who cant get dinged for advocating for a wing who just needs to develop some specific skills, or a uniquely skilled guy with some measurement deficit a la draymond, jokic,, Rudy gobert (remember he was super skinnny), a late jack of all trades wing with FIRE in his eyes in Jimmy butt. pascal siakim/dejounte/khris middleton, all in one year, this stops in 2017 but you get some good role players in that end range in devonte graham and gary trent jr in 2018 So maybe best practices have taken this into account at least the 28-41 range Tidbits: Sam Vecenie says Shaedon Sharpe is a likely top 4 pick , says Keegan Murray could end up in top 4 Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 23:11
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Dejan Bimble posted:There's a weird pattern going back 10 years in the draft where the best player is either 1st pick, somewhere between 10th-14th pick, or somewhere betwee 30th-41st pick I don't think it's scouting. Some of it is there's a range where you value boom or bust vs high floor, and some guys become great only if they land somewhere where they don't need to carry a franchise, which isn't going to happen top five. Development is really important, and it's not inevitable that a guy becomes a star or flares out. If you look at general EV it follows draft spots pretty closely, so overall scouts are doing what they need to do, v even if that pattern isn't matched in one particular draft year.
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Mar 6, 2022 00:00
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https://theathletic.com/3172464/202...pe-enters-fray/ Vecenie's 2022 NBA Draft Big Board Chet Holmgren, Gonzaga, C Jabari Smith, Auburn, F Jaden Ivey, Purdue, G Paolo Banchero, Duke, F Shaedon Sharpe, Kentucky, W A.J. Griffin, Duke, F Keegan Murray, Iowa, F Jalen Duren, Memphis, F/C Johnny Davis, Wisconsin, G Dyson Daniels, G League Elite, G Ochai Agbaji, Kansas, W Jeremy Sochan, Baylor, F Bennedict Mathurin, Arizona, W TyTy Washington, Kentucky, G Kendall Brown, Baylor, F Mark Williams, Duke, C Tari Eason, LSU, F Walker Kessler, Auburn, C Malaki Branham, Ohio State, W MarJon Beauchamp, G League Ignite, W Bryce McGowens, Nebraska, G Jaden Hardy, G League Ignite, G Patrick Baldwin, Milwaukee, W/F Trevor Keels, Duke, G E.J. Liddell, Ohio State, F Justin Lewis, Marquette, F Nikola Jovic, Mega, F Christian Braun, Kansas, W Ryan Rollins, Toledo, G Kennedy Chandler, Tennessee, G Keon Ellis, Alabama, W Ismael Kamagate, Paris Basketball, C Jean Montero, Overtime Elite, G Oscar Tshiebwe, Kentucky Blake Wesley, Notre Dame, G/W Christian Koloko, Arizona, C JD Davison, Alabama, G Jake LaRavia, Wake Forest, F Caleb Houstan, Michigan, W Harrison Ingram, Stanford, W Ousmane Dieng, New Zealand Breakers, W Josh Minott, Memphis, F Hyunjung Lee, Davidson, F Jordan Hall, St. Joseph's, G Jaime Jaquez, UCLA, F Wendell Moore, Duke, W Peyton Watson, UCLA, W Jalen Williams, Santa Clara, W Jabari Walker, Colorado, F Moussa Diabate, Michigan, F Iverson Molinar, Mississippi State, G Matteo Spagnolo, Canoli, G Hugo Besson, New Zealand Breakers, G Isaiah Mobley, USC, F Gabriele Procida, Bologna, W Kris Murray, Iowa, F Alondes Williams, Wake Forest, G Jaylin Williams, Arkansas, C Colby Jones, Xavier, G Gabe Brown, Michigan State, W Khalifa Diop, Gran Canaria, C Caleb Love, North Carolina, G Dalen Terry, Arizona, W Yannick Nzosa, Unicaja Malaga, C Julian Strawther, Gonzaga, W Kofi Cockburn, Illinois, C Drew Timme, Gonzaga, C Zach Edey, Purdue, C Orlando Robinson, Fresno State, C Dom Barlow, Overtime Elite, F Gui Santos, Minas, F David Roddy, Colorado State, F Vince Williams, VCU, W Julian Champagnie, St. John's, W/F Dereon Seabron, NC State, W Azuolas Tubelis, Arizona, C Trevion Williams, Purdue, F/C Justin Moore, Villanova, W Kevin McCullar, Texas Tech, G/W Tyler Burton, Richmond, W/F Michael Foster, G League Ignite, F Darius Days, LSU, F Roko Prkacin, Cibona, F Kam McGusty, Miami (FL), W Hunter Dickinson, Michigan, C Collin Gillespie, Villanova, G Johnny Juzang, UCLA, W Luke Travers, Perth, F Andrew Nembhard, Gonzaga, G Tevin Brown, Murray State, W Pete Nance, Northwestern, F Adam Flagler, Baylor, G Baylor Scheierman, South Dakota State, W Jalen Wilson, Kansas, W/F Scotty Pippen Jr., Vanderbilt, G Isiaih Mosley, Missouri State, W Jamaree Bouyea, San Francisco, G Mike Miles Jr., TCU, G Ariel Hukporti, Melbourne United, C Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana, C WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 02:10
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The Ringer has their draft guide up https://nbadraft.theringer.com/
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Mar 16, 2022 23:54
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Guy at the athletic doing a pistons big board put up Holmgren, Smith, Murray, Banchero, Ivey, Griffin, Mathurin. Didn't include Sharpe because the writer hasn't seen a declaration yet.
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Mar 17, 2022 01:49
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WhyteRyce posted:The Ringer has their draft guide up I would probably move Johnny Davis up one and then swap Mathurin for Sochan but in my very limited watching this year I don't have a huge problem with this. Part of that might be no strong feelings about anyone. Proud of Koloko since I am on record of him being good two years ago.
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Mar 17, 2022 04:30
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Chet had himself one hell of a game today 19/17/5/7/2
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Mar 18, 2022 00:01
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So how far is Murray dropping
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Mar 18, 2022 00:55
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Right now I feel that any of the top 4 (Chet/Jabari/Ivey/Palo) could probably be selected #1. I think they've probably done enough to separate themselves into that top tier and I think the gap is looking pretty wide.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:41
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Are there any stats where the performance in the tournament is more closely correlated with NBA performance than their performance in the NCAA regular season? Probably need to control for strength of opponent.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:33
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WhyteRyce posted:So how far is Murray dropping My limited watching of Murray was that he looked "too good for college" which is to say most of his competition didn't look to be in his class, it didn't look like he was beating equal competition, but he was making college guys look bad. He didn't have a good game about Richmond (and they don't exactly have a pro NBA defense either so it proved nothing in that area) but he did ultimately get his numbers which is not nothing. I think if you were already inclined to ignore the age and the rather pedestrian freshman year you'd still have him pretty high on your board but if those things were a factor to you, you'd use the tournament loss as an argument to drop him.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:47
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JackBandit posted:Are there any stats where the performance in the tournament is more closely correlated with NBA performance than their performance in the NCAA regular season? Probably need to control for strength of opponent. It was probably like 10 years ago and someone tried to do something but it ended up a big mess. I think it specifically was trying to look at "Good in Reg/bad in tourny" and vice versa. Turned out a couple games are a bad sample size, but ultimately "You kinda expect to not usually play as well against a top opponent" probably makes the most sense. Cart Mountain posted:Right now I feel that any of the top 4 (Chet/Jabari/Ivey/Palo) could probably be selected #1. I think they've probably done enough to separate themselves into that top tier and I think the gap is looking pretty wide. Yeah, this year is no one in those top-tiers where it's a no brainer but that next tier looks very solid and 4 deep (which is nice). That was kind of last year too and Edwards and Ball both look like fantastic gets. I still don't trust Chet's game to transition but given the field he probably still makes a lot of sense #1.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:54
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Rick posted:My limited watching of Murray was that he looked "too good for college" which is to say most of his competition didn't look to be in his class, it didn't look like he was beating equal competition, but he was making college guys look bad. He didn't have a good game about Richmond (and they don't exactly have a pro NBA defense either so it proved nothing in that area) but he did ultimately get his numbers which is not nothing. Monte has shown he doesn't care about age or sophomores who had pedestrian freshman years. And Murray is the theoretical archetype for what this team needs, so a lot of Kings fans are already penciling him in. Was just wondering the odds of him being there at 7 or 8 after the Kings make their usual late season surge of winning meaningless games. Tell me about Benedict
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Mar 21, 2022 20:35
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https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1505938759690461188
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Mar 22, 2022 01:35
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Austrailia is the land of giant spiders and PGs https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1508230103964143618
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Mar 29, 2022 21:18
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WhyteRyce posted:Dyson Daniels, G League Elite, G the prospect list i'm emailing daryl morey get me the guy named Matteo Spagnolo from... Canoli??
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Mar 29, 2022 22:03
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