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roomtone posted:Right now I think it's a whole town Truman show type thing, becuase of what we've seen of the outside world. Mark's sister seems normal, but everyone else seems wrong, and normal can be faked anyway. Maybe the whole mind collective is probably encouraged/run by Lumen itself as a discredited opposition. It's almost certainly not a Truman show thing or we wouldn't have a scene of the director lady getting upset that the brother in law left a book, it would all be part of the script. If it's a Truman Show thing people are only 'on' for Mark's/the audience's benefit. JazzFlight posted:I love that they're fully exploring the crazy implications of what this scenario would bring to the world. A nice touch was the news report mentioning a severed worker who got pregnant at work. That's a whole can of worms right there. I think Walken is one of the 'never goes home' types but I love the idea of the together in the real world AND the closeted outie/out innie as well.
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Feb 28, 2022 18:50
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Petey seems not to have a life at all outside the office which is interesting
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Feb 28, 2022 19:11
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Captain Monkey posted:It's almost certainly not a Truman show thing or we wouldn't have a scene of the director lady getting upset that the brother in law left a book, it would all be part of the script. If it's a Truman Show thing people are only 'on' for Mark's/the audience's benefit. probably shouldn't have said truman show because that's a really specific concept, i just meant that it seems like the entire town is engineered for some purpose by lumen, and i think that the people who are not severed are not 'normal' as in, removed from the situation. they might be manipulated mentally, or in on the take. you have stuff like the empty neighbourhood mark lives on, but i think the brother-in-law of mark is also a weird one. the WWI thing in the first episode, which i thought was strange at the time but then agreed was just bourgeois types being stupid, i now think might actually be a clue again. we'll see. euphronius posted:Petey seems not to have a life at all outside the office which is interesting you might be right about that but he did mention that he can't go home as an explanation as to why he was living rough. i think he mentioned a daughter. he thought he was being watched and would be picked up by the police/lumen if they found him. which they did. it doesn't seem like they have unlimited power to do what they like, because they could have probably grabbed him in the restaurant, so they still need to maintain some kind of cover.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:23
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I am personally convinced that whatever evil work the company does or workers are doing, it won't be like an Ender's Game, haha you're bombing our enemies all along. Black Mirror already did a better modern VR version of that anyway. I think the evilness of the company is all this we see at work. Some chain of gifter megalomaniacs arranging themselves in a shared pyramid of increasingly insular corporate culthood. Or I just think it's scarier if the numbers and all this eldritch set-up is for something without meaning, or lost its meaning long ago and has become a runaway process of what happens in this hosed up hell they've made for workers, starting from some once-semi-benign corpo-ethos building upon itself for however long. If there's a Truman show aspect to it, I'm not sure who could be watching, since I think every character we've met so far would be part of the Truman side of things. Plus anyone who might know what's going on might actually be severed in ways they don't know. I can almost see different exec teams wandering hallway likewise paranoid and secretive about whatever is they do or don't do. Like Mr. Torture-man knows more than we know, but I also don't see him actually knowing all that much about poo poo besides having some secret internal pleasure or cultish satisfaction he gains through the apology-torture. There's also the fact that the Severance is fatal and mind-loving, anyone involved in management at some level has to be strict about never letting anyone leave. Like, if your outie is like "oh I'm moving to canada" it seems like they probably have to figure out how to keep them there or otherwise arrange for a death. p.s. one guess about the numbers if it is obfuscated work and not just psyops, perhaps they are in some way targeting eachother or themselves, maybe the "weird" numbers are them finding neurons about to connect their or someone else's severed memories to the outie counterpart? I am curious at which point in the company's history they developed this technology and also if all those presidents and folks mentioned are real or just another lefel of kayfabe for their mind-control.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:45
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Well that’s one thing the thread brought up that came true then. Another solid episode, but man do I Jones for more when it ends. I was really aching to see some of Hellys outie too, and that taster just adds to that.
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Mar 4, 2022 04:52
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That vending machine is loving with me. So, in reality, vending machines: 1. Give people stuff when given cash. 2. Prevent people who don't pay cash from taking stuff. Vending machines have alot of cost overheads to get this work done. You need a big alarmed metal box with a power source, internal electronics, a system that can count inputted cash. You need to pay people to repair it when it breaks. This vending machine carries all those costs, but doesn't actually perform the second main function of a vending machine, preventing theft. The tokens to use it are in an easy to access glass jar next to it. Theft is trivial. Indeed, someone could accidentally steal from the vending machine simply by miscounting the number of tokens they've used each day, let alone by intentionally taking a token. Why do they have the vending machine? The thing that first came to mind is that this is a system designed to detect discontent. Its easy to steal, but the camera's will see you do it. Standard panopticon stuff. But they could accomplish this same functionality with a simple tray and sign that says "two per day". The first real possibility is that the vending machine is a mechanical Turk. The corporation has clearly done this already with the farcical "code readers", technology which supposedly detects communication. It's pretty clear what's actually happening is that people are watching on camera's the whole time and the corporation is pretending that a machine is performing the work, but the innies don't know this, and the lie restricts their ability to rebel effectively. If someone steals, and the corporation claims that the machine detected the theft, it would explain why they paid for a vending machine. The other possibility, is that the Inner office is pantomiming office culture even when it doesn't serve any profitable purpose. It's entirely plausible that the show's finale will end with the entire office been completely run by severed workers internally, with severed communication workers running a script where they pretend to talk to the board, everyone thinking that someone is at the wheel while the ship plunges into bizarre depths. It's entirely possible, given the age of the facility, that this has already happened. If what were seeing is essentially a corporate flight of fancy workshopped by the severed, if its purpose is not practical but cultural, that would make sense as well. That loving vending machine.
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Mar 4, 2022 05:27
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we know there are non-severed workers operating on the severed floor, though the cargo cult of office culture is a good take, I think in the end its more about the illusion of choice. e: or the parallel metaphor of being trapped in a box, released only by the 'proper' channel.
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Mar 4, 2022 06:01
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Severance would probably be a lot less draining if they incorporated naptime at the end of the shift.
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Mar 4, 2022 06:07
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Captain Monkey posted:we know there are non-severed workers operating on the severed floor I think this isn't as straightforward as it appears. I suspect thr relationship between Mark's neighbour and his boss is way more complicated than it appears, than if one of them was simply lying. I reckon it's part of why she was stealing that candle. To get something for her "real" home.
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Mar 4, 2022 06:13
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Holy poo poo that episode was insane.
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Mar 4, 2022 06:36
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Cojawfee posted:Holy poo poo that episode was insane. Every episode makes me throw a little mini-tantrum because I am not able to binge-watch the whole season. I also respect the hell out of their use of Helvetica. So good.
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Mar 4, 2022 06:40
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never would've thought the most normal thing in this show would be an actually-very-sweet christopher walken/john turturro romance
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Mar 4, 2022 07:20
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drat this show is so good
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Mar 4, 2022 09:29
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The last 5 minutes were really... suffocating. It's so sad that her life flashing before her eyes was a single memory. Edit: I really like Lower's performance in this. Rob Filter posted:That loving vending machine. And they can only be good kids and buy healthy treats with them. itry fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Mar 4, 2022 |
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Mar 4, 2022 10:09
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I wonder if the outie Ellie we saw on the video was a deep fake, and the real one is being kept in the dark by Lumon. In the brief scenes we saw earlier with outie Ellie in the stairwell, she seemed disturbed by the fact that her inner didn't want to be there and had to be assured by Milchick. Her personality felt different than the sociopathic video version.
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Mar 4, 2022 10:40
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Holy poo poo what an episode and what an ending. Also it cracks me up that Rickon actually sounds like an inspirational, articulate and wise figure down there because they have no frame of reference for any other works of writing beyond the corporate handbook and insipid art. The Jon Turturro/Christopher Walken stuff was wonderful and I'm very worried about them 
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Mar 4, 2022 11:16
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This show is so drat good so far. Haven’t seen the latest episode, but I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone mention the black sludge. Only Irving has seen it so far but it also features prominently in the intro. I think it is central to whatever they’re doing. euphronius posted:Petey seems not to have a life at all outside the office which is interesting Neither does Mark! Other than hanging out with his sister and complaining about trashcans. I don’t think it’s a coincidence either
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Mar 4, 2022 13:04
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Surprised Helly didn't try and hit the up button immediately before stepping off. Reanimating your vindictive other into a death by strangulation seems like a very eloquent gently caress you. Also, how many eps until Helly and Petey golems?
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Mar 4, 2022 14:20
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another really good episodeSimonChris posted:I wonder if the outie Ellie we saw on the video was a deep fake, and the real one is being kept in the dark by Lumon. That's a good point - she said 'i don't want to be in there, do i?' to milchek when she kept coming back out. He had to lie and prod her to go back in. She didn't come off as the kind of person who would make that video, so I agree that something else is going on. The disc she made could easily just have been confiscated by the security guard. There's so much ellipsis around this stuff right now it's hard to guess. We didn't even see her actual resignation request video - perhaps because it can be assumed, but maybe its content is unexpected. Jerusalem posted:Holy poo poo what an episode and what an ending. Also it cracks me up that Rickon actually sounds like an inspirational, articulate and wise figure down there because they have no frame of reference for any other works of writing beyond the corporate handbook and insipid art. The text saying 'i abstained from using my own money and instead relied on the charity of strangers' was pretty funny. quote:The Jon Turturro/Christopher Walken stuff was wonderful and I'm very worried about them I don't think I've ever seen an elderly gay romance on TV before. You see old couples, but this is the first time I've seen a relationship starting. Walken is like 20 years older than Turturro, I think. That also doesn't happen on TV. We also got a glimpse that Burt is either lying or not mentioning the fact that while his little dept. is 2 people, he also sometimes works in a room with what might be hundreds of people. That's the first visual of the scale of Lumen we've gotten.
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Mar 4, 2022 17:30
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The only thing I'm a bit iffy on right now is how much the severed workers are getting away with apparently unobserved. That place would be wall to wall cameras, under constant surveillance. In this episode, they were wandering around the building, finding contraband items and hiding them. Helly took an extension cord and a bin to the elevator, she didn't pass any cameras? There's no camera on the workstations, even? I know they need to create some room for the characters to actually do things but right now it feels a bit sloppy. It stands out so much because the actual severance situation is such an airtight nightmare scenario that the ease of eluding observation while inside doesn't seem right.
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Mar 4, 2022 17:38
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roomtone posted:The only thing I'm a bit iffy on right now is how much the severed workers are getting away with apparently unobserved. That place would be wall to wall cameras, under constant surveillance. In this episode, they were wandering around the building, finding contraband items and hiding them. Helly took an extension cord and a bin to the elevator, she didn't pass any cameras? There's no camera on the workstations, even? Cobel was watching Mark’s little session while Helly and Irv were wandering around. Not sure if surveillance exists beyond that though.
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Mar 4, 2022 17:49
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roomtone posted:The only thing I'm a bit iffy on right now is how much the severed workers are getting away with apparently unobserved. That place would be wall to wall cameras, under constant surveillance. In this episode, they were wandering around the building, finding contraband items and hiding them. Helly took an extension cord and a bin to the elevator, she didn't pass any cameras? There's no camera on the workstations, even? There's several camera blisters that she passes. But a panopticon with a distracted guard, or who doesn't have the full context of what's going on will do little to stop her.
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Mar 4, 2022 18:48
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Welsper posted:There's several camera blisters that she passes. But a panopticon with a distracted guard, or who doesn't have the full context of what's going on will do little to stop her. Who says they care if she kills herself? When they extracted Petey's chip they both said 'that's Petey' and I think the difference between 'That's Petey's' and 'That's Petey' is going to end up doing a lot of work.
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Mar 4, 2022 20:37
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Captain Monkey posted:Who says they care if she kills herself? When they extracted Petey's chip they both said 'that's Petey' and I think the difference between 'That's Petey's' and 'That's Petey' is going to end up doing a lot of work. I think so too. And suspect that the general looseness of the office is a plot point eventually too. Kinda reminds me of Jerry daycare from Rick and Morty, the office drones generally stay on task mostly because they don’t realize the freedom they have, and/or the freedom to wander and their inclination to do their work anyway is part of the whole secret work thing. Or it could just be plot necessity type stuff I guess; that’s less fun but I guess we’ll find out how tight the writing is when the season comes to a close One thing that is kinda bugging me is the implants themselves. I don’t need my sci-fi overexplained generally, but the implants obviously give Lumen some power over the office drones (break room) but not total power. But if you can gently caress with your employees’ brains, why don’t you just make them your happy little drones? I think I’d just like some detail on it to get a better picture of what resistance is even possible. Like, it’s clearly not morals preventing Lumen from just sapping all free will from their severed employees. I imagine we’ll get that through the bosses loving around with Petey’s chip though
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Mar 4, 2022 20:57
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I'm guessing the chip is what stores the identity of the innie. The chip interfaces with the brain to control the body, and stores the memoriesof the innie and just puts the actual brain to sleep while inside the office. They say that the identities become spatially separated and one takes over when going into the elevator, but it seems like it would be easier to explain that the severing chip thing just causes the person's brain to turn off or go to sleep when it receives a signal from the elevator or the stairwell or wherever.
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Mar 4, 2022 22:06
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Something I feel stupid for not picking up on, when Innie Mark is having his session he sculpts a tree. We know from earlier in the episode that outside the severed floors Mark's wife is dead, and it looks like she was killed in a car crash running into a tree potentially based on Mark's visit to it but this is something that Mark should have absolutely no inkling of once on the severed floor.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:39
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Jerusalem posted:Something I feel stupid for not picking up on, when Innie Mark is having his session he sculpts a tree. We know from earlier in the episode that outside the severed floors Mark's wife is dead, and it looks like she was killed in a car crash running into a tree potentially based on Mark's visit to it but this is something that Mark should have absolutely no inkling of once on the severed floor. Yeah that hearkens back to the conversation with Petey where he tells Mark, "You carry it with you," in reference to Mark's red eyes at the office I got it right away  no I didn't
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Mar 5, 2022 02:07
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One of the lines that stuck out to me from Petey so far was "I'm your best friend, you're my very good friend." It's weird because I don't think there's any proof of Petey having substantial connections outside of Mark.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:18
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Jerusalem posted:Something I feel stupid for not picking up on, when Innie Mark is having his session he sculpts a tree. We know from earlier in the episode that outside the severed floors Mark's wife is dead, and it looks like she was killed in a car crash running into a tree potentially based on Mark's visit to it but this is something that Mark should have absolutely no inkling of once on the severed floor. Don’t forget that in that session, the candle was lit that Cobel stole from Mark’s basement, that was presumably his wife’s.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:27
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It seems like wellness checks are to see if any of the outie's personality or memories are leaking into the innie. Like when Irv, perhaps hearing the list of things his outie liked to do was littered with lies and truths and they gauge how he reacts to see if he seems to like the real ones a little too much as if he has memory of them.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:29
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Mahoning posted:Don’t forget that in that session, the candle was lit that Cobel stole from Mark’s basement, that was presumably his wife’s.  Jesus Christ somehow in an episode where they drilled into the head of the corpse at a funeral and an outie told her innie AND all her innie's fellow innie colleagues that they're not real people and their feelings are irrelevant THAT is the most horrible thing those assholes did.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:29
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Nichael posted:One of the lines that stuck out to me from Petey so far was "I'm your best friend, you're my very good friend." It's weird because I don't think there's any proof of Petey having substantial connections outside of Mark. that was just a ball-busting kind of joke.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:31
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roomtone posted:that was just a ball-busting kind of joke. Those types of jokes were why they were friends. Remember how Mark played along with the whole wearing his face thing.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:33
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roomtone posted:that was just a ball-busting kind of joke. drat, I'm dumb. That makes more sense.
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Mar 5, 2022 03:08
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Probably one of my favorite new shows of the year. I don't have a clue of what's going on.
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Mar 5, 2022 03:33
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Cojawfee posted:It seems like wellness checks are to see if any of the outie's personality or memories are leaking into the innie. Like when Irv, perhaps hearing the list of things his outie liked to do was littered with lies and truths and they gauge how he reacts to see if he seems to like the real ones a little too much as if he has memory of them. This seems correct. Sinister. I like this show.
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Mar 5, 2022 03:49
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cryptoclastic posted:This seems correct. Sinister. I agree. It seems as though memories can leak into workplace if they're linked to emotion - such as Mark sculpting the tree, or the chemistry between Burt and Irving. Didn't Irving notice paint under his fingernails in a previous episode? Perhaps he's the artist on the paintings he's been admiring. They can't comprehend what they're feeling.
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Mar 5, 2022 05:19
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That is an interesting thought. He finds that black substance under his nails and the next day he has that vision of what could be paint oozing all over his desk. So maybe they have to keep outside and inside things completely separate in order to keep the memories separate. Perhaps their brains are not capable of keeping things separate. So when the innie sees something from the outie's memory, their brain can't help but make a connection to the outie memory, but they can't handle that so it manifests as weird poo poo like the black ooze.
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Mar 5, 2022 05:39
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Rewatching episode 1. Do you think the answer of "Delaware" helped contribute to a perfect score because the first state a person with no personal memories thinks of is the first state?
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Mar 5, 2022 05:58
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SpaceAceJase posted:the chemistry between Burt and Irving. Didn't Irving notice paint under his fingernails in a previous episode? Perhaps he's the artist on the paintings he's been admiring. My wife hypothesizes that Burt and Irving are a couple on the outside. Also Bert and Ernie  .
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Mar 5, 2022 07:29
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