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The world's last surviving Guardian columnist crawls from the rubble. A scrap of toilet paper blows into their reach on the nuclear winds. With a finger stained with radioactive ash they scrawl their last words upon it: "But just imagine where we'd be under Corbyn"
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Mar 1, 2022 17:11
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 01:46 |
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It's such a deliberate abstraction of language as well, to distance from the fact it's an act of war. A "No Fly Zone" sounds like we'd just put a few signs up about the place to quieten everyone down.
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Mar 1, 2022 17:46
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For discussion's sake, if I WAS to place the majority of the blame at the feet of NATO and the West, what would be the realistic counter arguments to that?
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Mar 17, 2022 10:17
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Well I for one would go with something like "the tanks invading Ukraine appear to be Russian so it seems like Russia is mostly responsible" I get what you're saying. For me it's the "unprovoked" interpretation that I take issue with mainly, especially in light of things like, internal memos from the US side saying "if we keep doing this thing it will pressure an invasion of Ukraine", Putin saying for many years the same thing, 8 years of the west taking a blind eye to civilian killings by the Ukrainian side in the seperatist regions, etc. Like how do you think the US would act if there was a militia on the Mexican border shelling American civilians for 8 years? There's a lot there to add nuance to one's interpretation, and to add another voice in opposition to the "Putin is mad/Hitler" crowd, which I don't think is a helpful view of the situation in any way.
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Mar 17, 2022 10:56
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jiggerypokery posted:They would be right too. In the space of what is possible on a scale between 0 being the worst hell imaginable and 10 being pretty good all round, actually - If western liberal (late stage) capitalist democracy scores 1/10 (loving awful) there is a hell of a lot of space left between 1 and 0 for Putin's facism to fill. I'd be interested to know what metrics you're using to arrive at this conclusion?
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Mar 17, 2022 11:02
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feedmegin posted:So....not American civilians, in your analogy, but rather Mexicans in Mexico? Because that already happens, there are drug wars around that area all the time, and the US hasn't sent the tanks in. No, I mean American civilians? You can't just add a "not" to my statement to make it mean something different.
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Mar 17, 2022 11:20
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Borrovan posted:Fairly sure Ukraine hasn't been shelling Russia for 8 years Except, they have? Russia "proper" - no. But the breakaway regions, yes. Does this make a difference? Not to the nationalists in the Russian government, however sincere or insincere their intentions are to the breakaway republics, the population and geography are considered Russian, thus from their perspective their people have been shelled for 8 years. It's the failure to consider this perspective that has partially driven the escalation towards where we are not. E: or rather, not the failure, US knows this perspective exists. Cookie Cutter fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Mar 17, 2022 |
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Mar 17, 2022 11:32
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OwlFancier posted:Seriously this is yank regime change 101 you shouldn't fall for it when the ruskies do it instead lmao. Did I say that I personally recognised the legitimacy of the breakaway republics? No, I didn't did I.
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Mar 17, 2022 11:54
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Jedit posted:That would beg the counter-questions of why Mexicans were considered to be American civilians and why the US was funding a Mexican militia. Because that's what's actually going on. The separatists in Eastern Ukraine are funded and supported by Putin, and they are only active within their own borders. You think I don't know that? It still doesn't change the attitude of the people in the Russian government either way. Notice I'm not actually saying I agree with this position, because I shouldn't have to! Thanks for condescending to me about "what's really going on" and telling me to gently caress off though.
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Mar 17, 2022 12:01
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OwlFancier posted:But if you are trying to argue that the west is somehow responsible then whether or not russia imagines them to be legitimate is utterly irrelevant, you are essentially just saying "well they think it's a good idea" which, like, obviously? They wouldn't have invaded if they didn't think invading was a good idea. Because whether we like it or not people making significant decisions do think and act as if the republics are legitimate whether that is sincere of them or not, for purposes of US style regime change or whatever weird goals the RusNats have. Doesn't make it right, but ignoring this as a factor has been a major part of the problem. I mean, I'll say if if it means my point will be taken seriously - Putin is a nationalist gangster and his invasion is not justified. I'll say it here to you guys because I respect the UKMT a hell of a lot. But I'd never say that in a discussion outside of here because I shouldn't have to! Now can we move past that please?
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Mar 17, 2022 12:13
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Reveilled posted:Here's the thing, you started this venture on the premise that, for discussion's sake, you were laying the majority of the blame at NATO and the West's feet and asked for counterarguments. You didn't provide any sort of thesis statement on why you were laying the blame there in the first place, so that requires people responding to you to guess why, for discussion's sake, you might be doing so. If you then provide the Kremlin's arguments in response to people's points, it's not unreasonable at all for people to assume that the reason you'd be laying the majority of the blame at the feet of NATO is because you believe in the basic thrust of these points. Because each of your responses carries the implied coda of "and that's why it's not mostly Russia's fault". Not if you're going to interpret what I've already said as "the Kremlin's arguments". Do you see me accusing anyone here of being a pro-West imperialist running dog? Here's a "Kremlin argument" from the current head of the CIA and former ambassador to Moscow: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html#efmBTnBfi Cookie Cutter fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Mar 17, 2022 |
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Mar 17, 2022 12:29
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feedmegin posted:According to international law the people in e.g. Donetsk are Ukrainian citizens, not Russian. It's not me that's saying that, it's, well, everywhere on earth that isn't one Russia or another, and of course you apparently. You seem to be trying to say it's the Kremlin's argument not yours that this is true, but, well, here is you personally saying the quiet part out loud. It was simplified analogy which I have then explained later on. Not an accidental slip revealing my true fascist beliefs 
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Mar 17, 2022 12:46
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fuctifino posted:On the subject of youtubers, 'Bald and Bankrupt' has been becoming popular due to the troubles in Ukraine, so it's worth reminding everyone that he's a racist PUA who narrowly avoided a gang rape conviction in the UK, before then abandoning his wife and daughter to become a sex tourist, all funded by youtube and patreon. I don't doubt this at all but is there a good source for this info on the guy?
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Apr 7, 2022 13:52
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Many thanks, I've seen just one or two of his videos and did have a couple of thoughts about some comments he made, this unfortunately is not surprising.
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Apr 7, 2022 15:54
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 01:46 |
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It's always surprised me how loving about with postboxes doesn't seem to be a thing in the UK, as most things you leave unsecured outside tend to end up becoming someone's "fair game" in one way or another. A direct open slot with a bunch of stranger's personal and possibly valuable things inside just seems like a perfect target to have matches thrown in, beer poured into it, etc, but I've never heard of it happening.
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May 12, 2022 16:35
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