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Do not look at this spoiler if you don't want Joven ruined for you: Since it was a Scandinavian flavor set, it's probably pronounced yoven
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Mar 20, 2022 02:20
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BasicLich posted:Do not look at this spoiler if you don't want Joven ruined for you: Since it was a Scandinavian flavor set, it's probably pronounced yoven You piece of poo poo
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Mar 20, 2022 02:23
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BasicLich posted:Do not look at this spoiler if you don't want Joven ruined for you: Since it was a Scandinavian flavor set, it's probably pronounced yoven It will always be a Spanish 'J' to me and nothing will change that.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:27
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Big Beef City posted:It will always be a Spanish 'J' to me and nothing will change that. Same for me Nicodemus Dumps posted:You piece of poo poo Learn from this person's mistake
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Mar 20, 2022 02:28
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:I was an imaginative and lonely child who bought the cards and played against herself a lot I did this too, but I still had other nerdy friends to play against.
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Mar 20, 2022 03:01
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Another page, another edition of Better Know a Degenerate Combo Deck why not. Today's edition is about an Extended deck: Memory Jar Combo. Technically the DCI, the Duelist's Convocation International, the governing body of official competitive play designated it type 1.x but everybody called it extended and this was the first format to have a name like that. Later, type 1 would become Vintage, type 1.5 would become Legacy and type 2 would become Standard. The core of the combo is the eponymous Memory Jar, with Tinker and Megrim. This is the only of the infamous "Combo Summer" decks that required an emergency banlist. This combo is unique in that it is the first to abuse the infamous Tinker, a card that probably shouldn't have been printed in the first place, or if it was to be printed should cost more like 1UUU or 3UU.    How the combo works is again, pretty simple. Use Tinker to resolve Memory Jar and then the fun begins. One memory jar becomes another, then another, suddenly your opponent is sitting with three to four hands full of cards on the table waiting to be discarded at the end of the turn. Drop Megrim as your final spell, end your turn and then you win. Two resolved memory jars will deal 28 damage via Megrim and what's more it will do that much damage to every other player, so the one time I played this in a multiplayer format people were really unhappy. This deck is a vile insulting thing because it forces you to have a hand in your own death at the cruel hands of Megrim. Pun intended. March of 1999, Memory Jar was banned in an emergency announcement. Previously that same month was a scheduled banlist that included Recurring Nightmare, Lotus Petal and Dream Halls. (more on Dream Halls later) e: I'm trying to space these out so i'm not completely dominating this thread but there's a lot of combo decks emerging starting in 1999 with the printing of the Urza's Block, so I think one per page is probably fine, I'm open to feedback though BasicLich fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 08:15
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I haven't played MTG since I was a dweeby kid but the combo deck stuff is cool and interesting.
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Mar 20, 2022 08:35
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Thanks, I kind of consider myself a MTG historian because I grew up in the early competitive scene because of some family stuff, I was semi-pro for a little while but I never really had what it took to go full pro. To this day I'm still interested in the game but now i'm kind of in an "outside looking in" situation because competitive magic is too damned expensive. Wizards should have never introduced the Mythic rarity, that was the beginning of the end of most of their formats. It shouldn't be too surprising that the most popular format is EDH, an informal format that became formalized and is now called Commander.
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Mar 20, 2022 08:46
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I can see tinker being used to turn other artifacts into memory jars, but not into each other. Since iirc you can’t sacrifice something twice.
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Mar 20, 2022 09:13
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ninjoatse.cx posted:I can see tinker being used to turn other artifacts into memory jars, but not into each other. Since iirc you can’t sacrifice something twice. Sorry I should have mentioned that this combo was very similar to the Tolarian Academy Combo in that it has plenty of fancy cheap artifact mana. I'll try to include a visual decklist like I did with TAC in the future, the thing is that visual decklist was available on one of the websites I used to shore up my memory of these decks. I'm going to try to find a web app to turn a text decklist into a visual decklist. Mox Diamond was the perfect card to accelerate this deck, not only was it free mana, but because you can only play one land a turn meant that there was no reason to not play any Mox Diamond you drew as you filled your hand time and time again with Memory Jar. Tap the Mox Diamond for mana, and then sacrifice it with Tinker to get a cheap Memory Jar  alongside Mox Diamond you have this insane mana powerhouse:  Lion's Eye Diamond is a corollary to the rarest and most expensive card of all, the Black Lotus, the only problem is you had to pitch your entire hand to get the mana. Not a problem for this deck, because with Memory Jar you get a fresh hand multiple times when you're "comboing out". I probably should have included LED as part of the combo because it later appears in the most powerful combo deck of all time, long.dec designed by the combo master Mike Long. (more on this later) e: if anyone can give/tell me about a tool to make a visual decklist that would be great. BasicLich fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 09:29
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I guess I'm unclear how Tinker activates Memory Jar since MJ has to be tapped and sacrificed, it doesn't read "whenever Memory Jar is sacrificed blah blah blah".
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Mar 20, 2022 12:26
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One Memory Jar gives you a new hand and since you have cheap stuff like Mox Diamond you can typically turn that into another Memory Jar in some way, so less directly chaining them and more just the hilarious advantage the whole set of cards gave you. That whole block is interesting because it broke every format in a million ways as BL is detailing, and the aftermath was WotC management making clear to the designers that if that happened again they would be out of a job. The block following, Mercadian Masques is notable for how bland and slow it is in comparison because the thinking was this sort of banning put a bad name on the game and it would lose players. Hilariously today 20 years later, WotC has apparently decided they would rather the push the envelope with crazy cards and ban later if needed - in the last few months MaRo even asked people on his blog which they prefer. The last few years of standard have had an almost equal number of bans and the speculation is Hasbro realized it doesn't matter to the brand and printing wild stuff is the best way to sell packs (though its rarely combos like this with "free" mana it's just otherwise incredibly powerful stuff). obithrawn fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 12:38
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^^ thisWho What Now posted:I guess I'm unclear how Tinker activates Memory Jar since MJ has to be tapped and sacrificed, it doesn't read "whenever Memory Jar is sacrificed blah blah blah". Oh ok Tinker does not activate Memory Jar, it only brings it into the play so that you can activate it. At any moment you can activate MJ by paying it's activation cost, which is detailed in the text box: Tap, Sacrifice Memory Jar: (each player sets aside his or her hand etc....) Once you use Tinker to resolve MJ, that is, get Memory Jar into play, it works free of mana or outside forces. BasicLich fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 12:48
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Ah, I see now, so Tinker is just a way to get MJ to the field cheaper and directly from the deck. Thanks!
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Mar 20, 2022 13:09
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Who What Now posted:Ah, I see now, so Tinker is just a way to get MJ to the field cheaper and directly from the deck. Thanks! Yes and it was just the best at doing the job! I've seen versions of these combo decks that ran these cards:   Show and Tell was a cheap way to cheat out Mind Over Matter and Goblin Welder was a way to accomplish roughly the same thing that Tinker could when combined with Windfall:  I guess this is the best time as any to discuss "Draw Sevens" so that'll be the next sub-edition of Better Know BasicLich fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 13:18
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My name is Jo ven and I'm here to say I like to play magic in a gathering way
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Mar 20, 2022 13:36
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Splicer posted:My name is Jo ven and I'm here to say 
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Mar 20, 2022 13:38
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I had a blue black discard deck that used Megrim, I had no idea it was part of some degenerate combo! Seconding that I find these combo posts interesting!
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Mar 20, 2022 13:40
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A Strange Aeon posted:I had a blue black discard deck that used Megrim, I had no idea it was part of some degenerate combo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqRKlpsavA I'm the second kind of player
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Mar 20, 2022 13:44
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obithrawn posted:That whole block is interesting because it broke every format in a million ways as BL is detailing, and the aftermath was WotC management making clear to the designers that if that happened again they would be out of a job. The block following, Mercadian Masques is notable for how bland and slow it is in comparison And yet the Masques block gave me one of my favorite decks which I will be detailing in a future edition of Better Know.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:54
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All my decks were just focused around stacking as many +x/+y enchantments as I could on one monster to make it a super monster. I was not very good at magic.
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Mar 20, 2022 14:22
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i remember building all the netdecks i read about on the dojo, through trading on IRC and MOTL. Fruity Pebbles, Trix, Tradeawake, Draw-Go, Deck Parfait, Suicide Black, Stompy, Tangle Negator, Wildfire, I'm sure I 'm missing a couple I was too young to drive to PTQs and stuff so I basically just goldfished and occasionally slaughtered casuals. Lots of Apprentice tournaments. I loved jamie wakefield and was pretty bummed when I checked on him years later and learned Mare died :/
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Mar 20, 2022 14:24
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who would win
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Mar 20, 2022 14:48
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I was definitely the number two type player. I had a thrull deck from Fallen Empires and my friend built a thallid deck. We'd play two headed giant and generally lose.
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Mar 20, 2022 14:49
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BasicLich posted:And yet the Masques block gave me one of my favorite decks which I will be detailing in a future edition of Better Know. That Skies deck in PT Chicago Top 8 has a soft spot in my memory, maybe 2 years ago there was a similar good deck in standard that gave me the best nostalgia. You got play a Djinn and everything.
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Mar 20, 2022 15:12
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Was it creatures forward for most everywhere else? I read an argument somewhere, probably here, years ago about someone playing lands forward and it was bizarre to me
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Mar 20, 2022 16:14
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I don’t play Magic so most this thread is gibberish to me, but I do understand Joven.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:18
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Siliziumleben posted:who would win Is Joven based on a real life person? He's kind of goony looking for a fantasy character who's supposed to be a thief even without the makeup.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:20
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Who What Now posted:All my decks were just focused around stacking as many +x/+y enchantments as I could on one monster to make it a super monster. I have a deck like that. It's mostly about giving this guy lifelink and poo poo 
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Mar 20, 2022 16:26
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I remember how fun Magic was until one of our friends became the first guy I would play like two-hour-long matches with my 200-card deck against my friend who just liked to put every card he had into one huge megadeck and it was always hilarious seeing what would happen. Then Ogre debuted his chiselled 60-card blue deck built around counterspells (obviously) and direct damage dealing and we all slowly stopped wanting to play 
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Mar 20, 2022 16:54
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Lol I did the megadeck thing too when I first started playing/collecting. They're my cards that I bought with my own money, why wouldn't I want to use them??
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Mar 20, 2022 17:19
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EXACTLY "You can only have four of each card in your deck" "O.K., then I am going to go through your deck and make sure you only have four islands" "You know that's not how it works" "Dude you're going to beat me anyway why the hell do you care?"
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Mar 20, 2022 17:30
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I definitely played mega deck in like 1995 or so Now I'm a gunslinger with like 80 decks built because I just can't help myself. And I basically never play anymore
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Mar 20, 2022 18:10
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Mega decks are definitely beginning strategy. You know you have the first friend when he won't pick what deck he's going to play until he knows what deck YOU'RE going to play. Such a bitch move. We ended up picking our decks behind our backs and holding them under the table until we played. I started playing when 4th edition was new, and played until (*checks online for release sets*) it looks like right before 6th edition. I remember weatherlight being a breaking point since to really play it you needed to have a ton of "Sliver" creature cards which meant buying a whole bunch of that set. They also had an ability to make them untargetable by spells, which meant I only had a few decks that worked against them. I had to choose between spending more money or just playing decks I'd been playing for years and just quit. It looks like Alpha came out only 2-3 years before I started playing. Wow, it felt so much longer than that. Not that I had a ton of money back then, anyway.
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Mar 20, 2022 20:22
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The Bloop posted:I definitely played mega deck in like 1995 or so You could play online, but I realize now that the reason I won so much was because I read the rules and understood them. Most of the kids who played only had a passing understanding of the rules.
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Mar 20, 2022 20:23
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ninjoatse.cx posted:You could play online The thing I like is mostly making my friends guess what my deck is doing, it's really an in person social thing for me, I've never tried to be pay-to-win competitive. Times have just changed with regards to how my friends and I spend our time and where we live and etc I love the game but I tried to play commander with some folks a little while back and the feel just wasn't the same as when I had fun just playing against close friends or my ex Someday I might sell my bazillion old cards but it honestly feels overwhelming
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Mar 20, 2022 21:03
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ninjoatse.cx posted:You could play online, but I realize now that the reason I won so much was because I read the rules and understood them. Most of the kids who played only had a passing understanding of the rules. Having played multiple card games online I can say with full confidence that it is the single worst way to ever play card games imaginable. Just pure unfun dogshit filled to the brim with tedious losers spending endless money to build meta decks. I just want to play my cool theme deck against another casual without having to play 500 turn-2 combo win freaks in between every fun game
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Mar 20, 2022 21:15
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Who What Now posted:Having played multiple card games online I can say with full confidence that it is the single worst way to ever play card games imaginable. Just pure unfun dogshit filled to the brim with tedious losers spending endless money to build meta decks. Same Goon casual magic meetup when
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Mar 20, 2022 21:38
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I had a friend growing up who was definitley "the guy". Parents had split and he always had a ton of money to spend on games. I remember he built a direct damage deck that played Neverils Disc or whatever and just decimated any of the cool creature decks my friends had put together. Speaking of doing things wrong he bought a very expensive set of painted space marines along with a small unpainted set of Eldar. He always got to play as the Space marines and understood the mechanics way better. I was like whats the point of this? Do you just like winning over a less equipped opponent? Tables turned when he asked me to "teach him to skateboard" and I told him to try standing on it and he goes "no I just wanna learn to kickflip". I calmly instructed him as simply as I could on how to kickflip and watched him eat poo poo on the concrete and immediately lose interest in skating.
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Mar 20, 2022 22:32
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I am very proud of myself as I absolutely had more money to spend on Magic than any of my friends but used it to do things like buy a Lich for $75 because I thought it would be cool as hell to play rather than, you know, put together a good deck (we started playing right before Revised came out, which was why I had a fair number of Unlimited cards I absolutely wish I had not all sold off by like 1996 when I figured the game was going to die soon) Also I had definitely forgotten the "oh if you're playing THAT deck then I'll use my blue/white deck" conversations. Nothing like being punished for wanting to have a good time playing a fun game casually and only having friends whose good times necessitate winning every time
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Mar 20, 2022 22:59
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