GUNDAM EVOLUTION - Guntank, GunDPS, Gunsupport (NOW LIVE!!)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > GUNDAM EVOLUTION - Guntank, GunDPS, Gunsupport (NOW LIVE!!)

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Barbatos's damage is really, really hosed for a unit with that level of mobility and CC. Like "he can instantly delete the tankiest unit in the game in under two seconds without the use of ult", whereas something like Exia has to actually land multiple hits to kill. The only thing that kills things as comparatively quickly is GM Sniper headshots.

It's the only unit in the game that feels terrible to play against. The Zaku, Asshimar, and Exia are all super dangerous backstabbers that can kill you incredibly quick with a flank, but all of them require a couple of seconds to actually kill, and all of them have some issues if they get forced into a fair fight by a burlier front line suit. The Barbatos simply deletes you.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 02:38

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:09

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I do think Barbatos needs to be a big threat, but I think it needs to either lose some damage, lose some CC, or lose some durability. Exia is a good baseline for them to use, I think, because it's still extremely dangerous and disruptive, but it has to be played way cagier and more carefully to get kills.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 05:38

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Nuebot posted:

Barbatos' stun feels a bit overtuned in that regard, yeah, but barb himself is surprisingly fragile to any kind of sustained fire. Another target I find consistently setting off little "this is kinda whack" sirens in my head is Sazabi, and given how tight the race just to select it every match is; I think other people get it too. The shield is basically a second regenerating health bar and if you run into one alone you're basically dead since you're unlikely to be able to burn through the shield before you get stunned and shotgunned.

Barbatos has 1000 HP, which is average for the cast(Exia and Zaku II, two other close range gank flankers, have 800, for reference).

Sazabi is definitely extremely good, but I think one of the main reasons he's so commonly picked right now is less that he's overtuned and more that he's the only playable character at the moment who can really spearhead a push because no one else has the requisite durability to make it through a doorway chokepoint without being instantly deleted. Some maps right now have a really egregious problem where there's literally only one entrance that the attacking squad has to all funnel through and without a Sazabi player on the team you really can't force the choke against a deathball without blowing a ton of ultimates.

Chillgamesh posted:

Barbatos's right click really really should not be a Stun. Honestly, I don't think this game needs stuns at all - with the exception of maybe Exia there aren't really any classes that have consistently extreme mobility like Tracer, Ball, or Doomfist in Overwatch, and the ttk is a bit faster. Stuff like the Marasai hook stun is fine though I guess.

Stuns are fine when they're the payoff for something somewhat difficult. Hitting Sazabi axe toss or Marasai hook are actually pretty challenging so it's okay for them to have a big payoff. Barbatos just does aoe stun around him as a matter of course during a kill combo. They're also okay when they're tied to something you can't use much, like Asshimar ult.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 16:53

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Turn A is a midrange skirmisher suit who's designed to plink down range. He's got a very accurate nearly hitscan rifle with low damage falloff, and a self heal that lets him win peek wars, but he offers basically nothing in close quarters combat because of the low DPS of his weapon relative to other close range combatants. The grab can let him win fights if he gets jumped, but it's so slow and so punishing to miss that it's too weak of a tool to really try to use offensively.

Moonlight Butterfly is a weird ult, because how good it is depends entirely on the terrain. In larger, open environments where you have a decent flight ceiling and the enemy team is relatively collected, it's a "kill the entire enemy team" button - you simply fly over them and let the particles disintegrate them. In tight spaces or areas where the enemy is encouraged to spread out a lot, it's basically unusable.

I find him to be fantastic on some maps/points and really terrible on others; possibly one of the most map dependent suits in the game at the moment.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 19:04

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Countblanc posted:

i don't really think changing the cooldown on Barbatos' stun will make it feel any better when one walks around a corner and kills you from full health without any sort of way to react for the majority of suits (possibly only zaku?). it's unfortunately one of those things where the issue isn't really balance per se, it's gamefeel. i doubt Barbatos is overtuned but boy howdy does it lead to bad brain chemical moments.

I can think of precisely zero situations where I'd rather have Exia as my team's flanking melee assassin than Barbatos, and I don't think Exia is weak.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 19:17

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

AnonymouseNo5 posted:

Which maps? Generally you can flank, but that's provided the other side doesn't have 2-3 on the flank route.

I feel the attack/defend mode with lines toward the objective like Overwatches is the weakest mode because of that. But the A/B/C attack mode/conquest-like is able to at least flank generally.

Several of the attacker vs. defender point cap maps have only single chokes leading to at least one objective, and so does at least one of the bomb maps.

The A-B-C rotating cap maps are generally really good and I love the mode because the maps are rats' warrens that provide tons of approach and flank paths and the constantly shifting objective point means that it's hard for a team to form a cohesive deathball and stagnate the match. Even if you get stonewalled out of an objective it's frequently possible for a team to make a big comeback simply by abandoning a losing objective and pre-emptively taking favorable ground on the next one.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2022 23:48

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Unhappy Meal posted:

Speaking of, I want that Char Zaku skin, but also don't think I have it in me to force the grind. I've got work I should be doing.

The stuff in the beta season pass doesn't carry over to live. All you get is a player icon and an RX-78 skin for hitting 20 in the beta.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 02:50

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Unhappy Meal posted:

Oh god. I hadn't been paying much attention to Marasai, but they can just hook combo kill anyone 1000 HP or less.

You can but the hook's range is extremely short and it has a brutal startup animation, so it's honestly less dangerous as a backstabber than the Zaku IMO. It does provide decent mid-range poke fire though.

It would be significantly better if you could hook shields but you can't.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 04:20

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Varinn posted:

itd be really funny for the first wing suit to be a taurus

The first SEED suit is an up-jumped grunt that showed up in like the last five episodes of SEED Destiny and has almost no screen time, so anything is possible.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 05:30

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

The dailies work fine? You generally get a selection of 3 suits for each daily, and you don't need to play them for an entire game for stuff like "win", just a round. They also have very low requirements for completion so it's pretty easy to one and done them. I think the only one I ever got that was annoying was a headshot kills daily where my options were Sazabi, Dom Trooper, and GM.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 16:18

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

RBA Starblade posted:

What counts as "winning" with a suit anyway? Winning while playing it as the game ends, or playing it at all during a winning game?

Playing at all during a winning game. I've gotten credit for only playing it in a round where I've lost but played another suit for the overall win.

AnonymouseNo5 posted:

See, this is why the system is awful. It doesn't explain. If Kanos is right and you only need to switch, ok: Great, that's better but the way the system works is just poorly thought out and not explained. It causes me (personally) anxiety on having to lock into mechs to do them, it causes me anxiety to make sure to stay in them to make sure the objectives are reached and counted.

It's just a bad system and doesn't make sense for a F2P shooter to limit you this hard.

I honestly don't get it. If they were actually onerous, like "get a 20 killstreak" or something, then I could see it being incredibly lovely, but the target numbers for every daily I've seen pop is stuff that happens in like two minutes of gameplay like "get 5 kills" or "do 5000 damage". You don't have to meticulously track your numbers, you just play like, a single round with the suit and it finishes. I don't think it's horribly limiting or mean for them to go "play a single round of the game with this suit", it's honestly way more generous than most F2P daily grinds that I've seen which frequently require you to actually focus on doing stuff or winning multiple games.

I say this as basically a mono-suit main who has a pick rate of like 90% on Methuss, for reference(and my non-Methuss games are basically all daily quest games, games where a friend wanted to play it, or games where some pub sniped it).

Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 10, 2022

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 16:30

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

They can absolutely do skin variants that are very similar to the original suit(G-3 and Char's Zaku are the examples already, ofc), but I'm not sure if I want them to plug in completely different suits as skins. It might get pretty confusing for target recognition if you go too wild with it. The movement speed and TTK is so low that you frequently only have an audio cue or a second or two to recognize what you're fighting and how to deal with it and having to remember that Exia has a Deathscythe skin or something would be annoying.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 17:06

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

On the cusp of battle pass 20, here's my super preliminary "this is what I've observed" tier list after talking with my friends who play while drinking for a few hours:

SS:

Barbatos: The best flanker in the game and completely warps the entire game around his existence. Incredible AoE damage and chain crowd control coupled with game-best mobility(he's better at moving around than the flyers ffs), low cooldowns, and average durability means that he has virtually no weaknesses. Most of the counterplay to him isn't about shutting him out, it's how to avoid him instantly killing you, which is extremely telling. If you're trying hard to win, your team had better have one and you had better hope yours is as good or better than the enemy team's.

Methuss: Currently the only true support, and a fantastic one. Extremely solid damage output with a good burst option gives it surprising punch and lets it win many fights you wouldn't think a support would be able to. Boasts extremely strong mobility which allows it to reposition to help the team, go for cheeky back caps, or simply escape being gibbed by a flanker. A properly deployed ult on this thing swings games. Another one of those "your team should really have one of these if you're trying to win" picks.
Sazabi: A wall of steel who is the best spearhead to a push in the game. Almost unbeatable in 1v1 duels unless you have a stun(and you'd better hope you throw your stun before it does) as well as capable of two or three shotting any suit in the game once it's in solid shotgun range. Amazing mobility for what a huge fatass it is with the tomahawk toss dash, and his G-Maneuver creates a moving death zone, especially when paired with a Methuss ult. You can win without this suit, but there's nobody that does what it does as well.
Zaku II: Another flanker, the Zaku II also has great mobility and absolutely fantastic DPS, as well as the ability to get out of dodge. This suit is all about being an annoying backdoor gremlin and forcing the enemy team to constantly chase you through their backfield while you pop out of the loving vents and shoot someone to death before skittering away cackling. Possibly the only suit with a good 1v1 matchup against Barbatos due to having tons of dashes and an invuln button.

Dom Trooper: An extremely durable skirmisher, the Dom Trooper is in its element holding choke points by spamming mines and rocket splashing doorways and objectives constantly. It's the natural enemy of deathballs forcing chokes, rezzing against it is impossible, and it's also supreme good at stopping bomb disarms. Its armor gun is low key one of the best support abilities in the game, giving an ally an instant and huge boost of temporary HP that can change what would be a dead ally into some dead enemies like magic. The only things holding this suit back are its lackluster G-Maneuver and the incredibly long reload time on the bazooka.
GM Sniper: I hemmed and hawed a bit about this suit's placement because it's possibly the most skill-dependent suit in the game and a bad one is worse than useless, but if you've got a player on GM Sniper that knows how to click heads, it's a game-changer. A GM Sniper headshot will instantly kill any suit in the game(except Sazabi, I believe) from full HP. On top of that, he's got decent self defense, a good mobility utility piece for allies in the bounce pad, a maphack-for-the-team G-Maneuver that charges insanely fast and stuffs flanks, and a ranged revival button. The only thing that holds this suit back is the aforementioned skill requirement and some map objectives have terrible sight lines that effectively preclude sniping. Situational but gamebreaking in the situations where it's good.
Gundam: Extremely basic but solid and reliable skirmisher unit. Its rifle is reliable and decently powerful and makes it a threat at all ranges and the shield makes it resistant/immune to ranged pokes while it repositions, but the star of the show is the hammer toss. Once you get the hang of it the hammer toss is a unit deleter and makes the suit a 1v1 terror. Its G-Maneuver requires some finesse because it can be killed, but if deployed properly it can instantly clear a contested objective and anyone it kills is also almost guaranteed to not be revivable due to the persistent DoT.
Guntank: Durable, constant tick damage at all ranges. If you're in LOS of the Guntank, it's hitting you constantly; it's not a lot of damage, but it adds up dangerously, especially when paired with teammates. Shockingly adept at defending itself in close quarters due to its high HP and gunfire-immune melee dash, though it excels in places with long open fire lanes where the enemy has no ability to break LOS and has to die to its chip. G-Maneuver is also great at clearing out contested chokes, though it can be killed so needs to be deployed somewhat carefully.

Pale Rider: Somewhere halfway between the Gundam and the Guntank, it's a mid-range skirmisher unit. Its machine gun is extremely accurate and powerful, but is held back horribly by a tiny little baby magazine size that will basically never kill a full HP enemy in one mag unless you consistently headshot for 2/3rds of the mag. The grenade is an okay finisher but nothing fantastic. The slow grenade is nearly worthless outside of the very specific application of trying to hold a choke; trying to use it in 1v1 will at best force a single dash out of the enemy. The heal station is decent utility but IMO inferior to the Gundam's shield(which prevents damage completely). Its G-Maneuver is its greatest failing; a self-steroid that merely makes it faster and buffs its machine gun hugely, but does nothing to increase the suit's durability, and also plays an extremely loud and distinctive sound and changes your animations when activated so the enemy team knows to focus fire you dead. It's like Methuss ult if it was self only and also bad.
GM: I loving love this suit but I think it's not super great at the moment. A decent main weapon and a powerful shield are a good start, its satchel charge is devastating, and its ultimate is basically a "someone will die if they approach this point" because the mines are insanely durable. The problem with it is that it's just crushingly vulnerable. With only one dash and a pathetic 800 HP, it's 100% entirely reliant on the shield to survive, which means it's pretty much food for flankers and dies instantly and for free to every stun in the game(except Marasai's). If it had one more boost dash or some more HP it would be A tier.
Asshimar: Another flanker, but flying this time. A strong rifle with power shot and a brutally powerful flame grenade give this thing a decent toolkit. It's also pretty much the only dedicated flanker unit that can respectably shoot down range if it needs to. The tradeoff is that unlike the other flankers it has some difficulty instantly 100-0ing people unless you land a juicy grenade toss, and despite being able to fly its ground mobility is inferior. It also has a lame ult which is basically Zaku II's but worse. Not a bad suit, but not great either.
Exia: If Barbatos is overtuned, this guy is probably a little undertuned. This suit is a flanker but has an extremely high skill floor; you have to time and combo your abilities properly and it helps a whooole lot if you can reliably headshot with the dagger tosses to actually burst people dead. Reliant on ult to do what Barbatos does normally, pretty much. It's still a huge threat when played competently but it is not pick up and play and is also incredibly easy to be useless on.

Needs Work:

Turn A: This suit's purpose is to be a durable mid range skirmish sniper suit with self-defense, but the problem is that there is literally no reason to pick it besides liking the suit's aesthetic. The GM Sniper horribly outperforms it in long range scenarios(while also humorously being better at defending itself from sudden flanks) and the Gundam smokes it in mid to close range. The judo throw might be the single worst button in the entire game - it's short range, unprotected, does poo poo damage, and punishes you horribly with a ridiculously long recovery if you miss despite not being a particularly strong button. Moonlight Butterfly can be rendered a completely useless G-Maneuver by terrain on a distressingly high percentage of objectives, and kills slowly enough that it can be escaped rather easily by players who know the map. They really need to give this suit another button(missiles? a gundam hammer?) and rework the judo throw heavily.
Marasai: This suit combines a nearly Gundam-tier beam rifle with a brutal kill combo with the hook -> stab. The problem is that the hook is horribly short range and has a nasty startup so it's not great against squirrely fast units, and for some reason is the only stun in the game that bounces off of shields instead of crushing them. I think if they made it so the grapple instantly trashed a shield but didn't pull the target, it would be a good compromise and would give this suit a nice niche as a counterpick to Sazabi frontlines.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2022 02:53

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Vizuyos posted:

The GM doesn't do so hot against stuff that delivers heavy burst damage or can bust through the shield, true. But its Repair Grenade is pretty drat solid. It does a lot to extend the suit's longevity by both restoring its own HP and healing up nearby allies, while not being nearly as limited as the Pale Rider's repair beacon.

Methuss is definitely the closest to a "pure" support, but I think the GM qualifies as support-oriented too. It's just that while the Methuss' mobility enables a more long-ranged support style, the GM prefers to stick close to its teammates.

The problem with the GM is that many of the damage-oriented suits that are currently really good basically hard counter it. Barbatos kills it for free. Sazabi and RX-78 kill it instantly with a stun toss. Zaku II can actually DPS the shield down. Any flank can potentially kill it before it can turn and react. Its toolkit positions it as a defensive anchor unit but it's too easy to kill because it's fragile and has poor maneuverability. If its toolkit was completely unchanged but had 1000 HP and two boost dashes it would be high A tier, IMO, because the toolkit is good.

The GM isn't really a real support because its heal has a cooldown and forces the recipients into a stationary position to benefit. It can't swap heal targets constantly and keep an entire push healthy like the Methuss can, and it lacks the insane support buff that is Methuss ult. It's not competing for the team's support slot, it's competing for a midrange flex slot with suits like Dom Trooper, RX-78, and Pale Rider.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2022 06:51

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

You can't headshot a shield and Zaku's damage per mag is really low without headshots. There is 0 chance that Zaku is sticking around and reloading like 2-3 times to magdump into GM's 1200 or 1600 hp shield or whatever it is without GM's teammates killing him, unless the supporty healy gundam is running off on a solo adventure in narnia nowhere near any of his teammates.

GM also does not force a stationary position. His heal grenade puts a timed regen on everyone it hits, it's not a field like Night Rider's.

A Zaku II magdump with 0 headshots does ~1300 damage(which is not low, lmao) and the grenade does 250. The GM shield has 1600 HP.

The GM heal grenade forces everyone to run over and touch it and only lasts for a couple of seconds before dissipating, which means your team has to be relatively close to benefit in any way.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Apr 11, 2022

# ¿ Apr 11, 2022 07:03

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Vizuyos posted:

GM and methuss stuff

Don't underestimate the difference between 800 base HP and 1000-1200 base HP, because it frequently matters a lot. It's the difference between wild Zaku II spray and pray killing you or leaving you alive to skitter around a corner, or getting two tapped by a Sazabi shotgun versus three tapped, or surviving a couple of beam rifle body shots versus dying. A 1000 HP suit can survive getting hit by a hyper hammer and body shot by the rifle twice, which might give them time to dash back around a corner, while an 800 HP suit is dead.

The Methuss's healing absolutely sustains a push. It won't save someone who is under direct fire, but as players push in, get hosed up, and duck behind cover during a rolling forward push, the Methuss constantly patching them up means that they return to active combat faster and increase the pressure on the opponent enormously. It's the difference between "guy gets shot, ducks behind cover, either runs all the way to the nearest health pack or waits for HP regen" versus "guy gets shot, ducks behind cover, is back in combat form in 3-4 seconds". The way I'd describe it is that stuff like the armor gun and the heal grenade are "win a single fight" heals - they provide an immediate burst of healing that can allow unlikely trades - while stuff like the Methuss is a "win a push" heal - it allows the team to apply significantly more pressure than would otherwise be possible by minimizing the gaps where they're not shooting people.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2022 18:27

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Flavahbeast posted:

Assuming the game has a good launch, I wonder if they'll do scaled down versions of the Neue Ziel or the Devil Gundam. A lot of favorites are just way too big for the maps

Given that they've stuck to being extremely accurate with the scale of the suits they've put in so far(see the Sazabi towering over everyone else), it would be weird to suddenly see miniature mobile armors.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2022 21:21

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Those notes don't fill me with confidence because they don't actually seem to grasp why the Barbatos is so overwhelming if they think that it's a matter of "oh the counter suits just need to have their counters tweaked slightly". It doesn't have to commit to anything because its kill combo is so fast and it has such insane mobility that no one has *time* to deploy countermeasures against it.

I'm not actually sure how either of those suits, even in their buffed forms, are intended to provide counterplay to Barbatos. At no point is a semi-canny Barbatos player ever going to approach either of those suits in a way that they can deploy short ranged stun abilities against it. It's going to ambush from around a corner, from behind, or from above with a fully charged stun and instantly kill combo them, and if it whiffs the stun it's going to instantly loving fly away at ten thousand miles per hour with its super jump.

Those buffs to the Turn A grab are going to be much more powerful against suits like Sazabi and GM then against Barbatos.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 28, 2022

# ¿ Apr 28, 2022 12:54

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Diephoon posted:

Will being able to fly keep me alive during the inevitable Barbatos and Zaku II ults on point?

In the network test the flight-capable units were some of the only ones that had a good matchup against Barbatos, so probably.

Mahiroo and Dozle's Zaku are both extremely deep cuts that make me incredibly excited for what kind of weird poo poo they're going to cram in this game eventually. Unicorn being a team-oriented buff suit is also an extremely neat choice for a headline protagonist suit.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2022 18:58

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Endorph posted:

one of the things they add in the second season has to be the wing or wing zero, right? i imagine theyll stick to a format of one headliner gundam and then two deeper cuts, so my guess is the first batch of new adds will be the wing/wing zero, an ibo grunt, and then maybe an 00 grunt, or one of the less prominent gundams from 00 like the arche.

I'm pretty confident they're coming up with gameplay toolkits and concepts first and then fitting a unit to the kit after the fact. I'm not sure they're going "oh we should add the Mahiroo", they're coming up with a set of tools and going "okay let's fit a suit to this".

Our only SEED representative for the network test and now the entirety of season 1 is going to be the DOM Trooper, a suit most people forget is even from SEED. At this rate it wouldn't shock me if the first Wing rep we got was the Tragos or a Cancer or some weird poo poo.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2022 20:23

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

The network test was extremely popular and worked pretty much flawlessly, at least.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2022 15:19

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I'd wager that it's basically guaranteed that one of the ways they'll expand the monetization is buyable pilot voices.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2022 16:22

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Gouf Custom would have a completely different moveset than what the melee zaku has, given that it actually has a huge gun and also a functional grappling hook attachment that can also tase people with its version of the heat rod.

Like half the appeal of the Gouf Custom is the enormous gatling cannon.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2022 17:03

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

ninjewtsu posted:

i do wish stuns weren't as prevalent though - i feel like they were less common in the network test?

There's no new stun effects since then. For existing stuns, Turn A's stun got buffed a bit, but Barbatos's stun got nerfed a bit, and as far as I can tell all of the others are about the same as they were. It's probably just a matter of people utilizing the stuns that exist better than in the network test. I've definitely seen more RX-78 players in live than I did in the network test, for example.

Kild posted:

Comp is gonna depend on the game mode but I'd be surprised if 3 slots weren't dedicated to GM, Gundam, and Sazabi.

I feel like whether or not GM becomes meta depends on how prevalent stuns and shield breaks end up being. Sazabi and Gundam both benefit hugely from their shields but aren't 100% reliant on them to function - Sazabi has fat rear end HP and good mobility and Gundam has a ranged stun and what amounts to a marksman rifle - whereas if you can null the GM's shield the suit dies instantly and contributes nothing.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Sep 23, 2022

# ¿ Sep 23, 2022 20:37

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Nuebot posted:

The GM's ability to shoot precisely at far longer ranges is also a huge benefit over the sazabi. The only targets that really want to get up close to a sazabi are the ones that can reliably obliterate it, and with Sazabi's speed it's not often that it gets to creep up on someone that isn't oblivious and tunnel visioning. So while the sazabi is really good at like, holding a hallway or a corridor or like clustered domination points; it's far less good at holding something like the big front gate on the lunar checkpoint map where the GM's ability to shoot at longer range and explosive lets it counter snipers and the like better. So I feel that'd probably come down to game mode and map even.

The Sazabi is crazy mobile because of the hatchet toss yeet. It's really not hard to approach people quickly on the suit or to take unexpected flank paths because you can yeet the hatchet upward and leap to it to get over a lot of terrain.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 06:08

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Marasai is in an interesting place where it's a thousand times better at its job than it was in the network test, but it's also almost hard countered by the Unicorn's armor pulse because it pushes 1000 hp suits into the "not dying to the combo" area.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2022 07:29

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I'm honestly surprised the game even has text chat, even if it has such a broad profanity filter as to be comically terrible. I feel like an increasing number of games have just abandoned the concept of text chat in favor of vague pre-canned phrases specifically to not have to deal with any of that stuff.

Kibner posted:

On everything short of the Sazabi, it is, iirc.

The GM Sniper's rifle does 1100 on a headshot, so yeah, a headshot pops everything except Sazabi, Guntank, Melee Zaku, Marasai, and Dom Trooper.

That said, sniper body shots do massively less and the scope-in animation takes close to a full second, so a sniper has to be a real life newtype or incredibly cracked to quickscope headshot someone who is moving erratically and running them down at close range.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Sep 25, 2022

# ¿ Sep 25, 2022 04:41

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Kwolok posted:

"Do massively less". They do 440 to the body. That is more than half the health of almost half of the roster. The sniper class shits out damage faster than almost any other class. Its absurd. One shotting half of the roster was a terrible design, but even if they aren't accurate they can still lay down some insane dps.

There are a whole lot of suits in the game that have a TTK of about two seconds at point blank.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2022 07:25

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

RBA Starblade posted:

It's pretty funny that the gigantic future robot, instead of laser guns or whatever else, has the world's largest bolt action rifle instead

It's basically just a gigantic tank cannon in the shape of a rifle.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2022 19:39

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

ninjewtsu posted:

i think if they removed headshots and also unicorn's aoe healing entirely this would be a better game, and the sniper would be fine

If they removed headshots it would take either a Barbatos or a direct colony drop to kill a Sazabi.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 20:05

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

No more headshots makes backstabbing it less likely to kill it before it can react and raise shield, and it also makes it harder to kill in the window of an RX-78 stun before it can recover and either scoot around a corner or wake up and counter hatchet you. The reason backstabbing it works so well is that you can burst it before it can react, and without headshots the TTK on everyone but melee suits and Mahiroo goes up by an enormous amount. Even Dom likes headshotting with the laser pointer.

This also discounts it maybe having teammates or a healer present. No more headshots also buffs any healing suits they might add in the process. Even if you delete Unicorn, the Methuss still goes up in power a lot because now slow, steady healing is a whole lot more powerful than it was.

I'm not exactly super pleased with the current state of sniper either, but I'd also rather they keep the TTK in the game fast and snappy because I really, really don't want to see an overwatch GOATS situation where every team stacks healers and tanks and slogs into each other doing nothing for the whole match until ults are up. I think I'd rather be frustrated sometimes than bored all the time.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 20:15

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

They also provide an important way to break stalemates between two evenly matched teams and shake up a stagnant game flow in a match, and also provide potentially interesting design spaces for suits, like with how Exia's Trans Am functions.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 20:51

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I think the game also does a good job with most of its ults. Stuff like Moonlight Butterfly or Trans-Am are extremely powerful but they don't provide real damage resistance for the person using it, so you can shoot them to death and stuff their ult and potentially gain a huge match momentum swing. Super Napalm kicks rear end but if you just throw it into a room with 5 people they're just going to shoot it and it does nothing.

Like all of them are really powerful game swingers to varying degrees but for most of them you have to deploy them with a semblance of brain cell usage, which is interesting and good.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 21:04

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Making the magnum the ult was a complete genius move specifically because it lets you make it a devastating unbalanced doom cannon that pierces suits and hits in an AoE.

To make it a suit's normal weapon you'd need to either make it a boring basic beam rifle or you'd need to make it a sniper rifle, and I'm sure no one wants another sniper rifle.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 21:30

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

You can use Turn A's judo throw to stuff melee Zaku's ult and it's hilarious.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 22:36

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Blockhouse posted:

I imagine that's because everything else is something they can unilaterally change or fix on their own. Monetization's probably a mandate.

Yeah, I'm betting that the devs themselves have no meaningful authority over monetization and to change anything about it they'd need to make a case to marketing/corporate.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 04:16

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Kitfox88 posted:

Still mad they put on pale rider instead of one of the blue destiny gms because the exam activation sound is way cooler

This would have been cool, because you'd get the cool EXAM noise and then your inevitable Pale Rider inclusion could have been one of the weapon packs like the one with the giant cannon or the enormous gatling gun.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 20:24

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Rabbi Tupac posted:

Ball is a gimmick hero where you pilot two balls

Meet the GM Juggler.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 22:10

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

I think rabid Tallgeese mania is mostly a western fandom thing. The Wing Gundam line seems to be generally more popular in Japan.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 22:24

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:09

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Boxman posted:

I don't know the universe incredibly well, are there any mobile suits that, like, drastically gently caress with scale? Obviously the Sazabi is beefier than the Pale Rider but I don't feel like there's really a significant difference in scale.

Toss Devil Gundam's final form in there is what I'm saying. Or, didn't the Ein Graze tower over Barbatos?

I suppose enough of the maps have small enclosed hallways that its probably not feasible.

The Sazabi and the Unicorn are both absolutely massive compared to most of the other suits in-game already and are probably the top end of unit size we're going to get. The Sazabi is like 30% taller than the OG Gundam by specs.

OG Gundam - 18 meters
Unicorn(Destroy Mode, which is what it is in-game) - 22 meters
Sazabi - Head height 23 meters, overall height counting horn/funnel backpack 25.6 meters

The real scale fuckery will be if they add stuff from F91, Crossbone, or Victory - the in-setting lore says that after a point, they realized that guns had gotten so powerful that the only defense was not getting hit, so stuff from those settings tend to be 15 meters or even shorter. The F91 being added would be like Oddjob from Goldeneye.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2022 23:10

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