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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Unhappy Meal posted:

Okay, thank goodness on the battle pass reward. RX-78 is fun, but not Zaku fun.

I'd want the Grimoire just for the unique look, but dunno what they'd do with it that Zaku doesn't do already. (Oh, they could make it a Zaku skin and completely own me, drat.)

The reward skin that carries over into the actual game kinda sucks, too.

https://twitter.com/gundamevolution/status/1512480279503388676

Wow, a Gundam with yellow shoulders, wrists, and ankles. How exciting. :geno: I'm kinda glad it sucks, though, so I don't feel any urge to grind out 20 levels in like two days.

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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Revitalized posted:

I think if someone leaves a big message is displayed saying you can leave too. (though I suppose you might lose points yeah. But I mean who cares about ranked points in a network test, it's all wiped anyways)

If someone leaves a match, then you can leave the match without being punished with a penalty period that you have to wait out before you can join another match. However, you can't join another match until that one ends, so you're still stuck waiting at the main menu for several minutes anyway.

Moreover, the result of the match is still applied to your ranking.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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RBA Starblade posted:

No it's the other way around, it just takes a few seconds to clear. After that you're penalized extra points for leaving after someone else has, penalized again once your team finishes losing, but you can play another round in the meantime.

It's almost the worst possible way to handle it lmao

Nah, they changed it today. Now after one player leaves the match, after a little while everyone else can leave too without any penalty. However, everyone who leaves the game can't join a new game until the game they left ends.

There's no rank penalty for leaving, but if anyone stays and plays out the game, the result of the game will be applied to everyone's ranks.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kanos posted:

B:
[*]GM: I loving love this suit but I think it's not super great at the moment. A decent main weapon and a powerful shield are a good start, its satchel charge is devastating, and its ultimate is basically a "someone will die if they approach this point" because the mines are insanely durable. The problem with it is that it's just crushingly vulnerable. With only one dash and a pathetic 800 HP, it's 100% entirely reliant on the shield to survive, which means it's pretty much food for flankers and dies instantly and for free to every stun in the game(except Marasai's). If it had one more boost dash or some more HP it would be A tier.

The GM doesn't do so hot against stuff that delivers heavy burst damage or can bust through the shield, true. But its Repair Grenade is pretty drat solid. It does a lot to extend the suit's longevity by both restoring its own HP and healing up nearby allies, while not being nearly as limited as the Pale Rider's repair beacon.

Methuss is definitely the closest to a "pure" support, but I think the GM qualifies as support-oriented too. It's just that while the Methuss' mobility enables a more long-ranged support style, the GM prefers to stick close to its teammates.

I'm not really sure if the Pale Rider qualifies as support or not. Its repair pod being vulnerable to enemy fire is a big weakness, and I have yet to figure out how to make the slow-grenade actually useful for anything.

The Dom's armor gun is definitely surprisingly good. It's only temporary HP, but a few seconds is usually long enough for someone to either find a healthpack or go down fighting. I kinda feel like its mines lack "oomph", though. They seem like more of an annoyance than a serious obstacle; at the very least, they definitely don't stop a Barbatos or Exia from totally ignoring the mines and just charging straight through them.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kanos posted:

The problem with the GM is that many of the damage-oriented suits that are currently really good basically hard counter it. Barbatos kills it for free. Sazabi and RX-78 kill it instantly with a stun toss. Zaku II can actually DPS the shield down. Any flank can potentially kill it before it can turn and react. Its toolkit positions it as a defensive anchor unit but it's too easy to kill because it's fragile and has poor maneuverability. If its toolkit was completely unchanged but had 1000 HP and two boost dashes it would be high A tier, IMO, because the toolkit is good.

The GM isn't really a real support because its heal has a cooldown and forces the recipients into a stationary position to benefit. It can't swap heal targets constantly and keep an entire push healthy like the Methuss can, and it lacks the insane support buff that is Methuss ult. It's not competing for the team's support slot, it's competing for a midrange flex slot with suits like Dom Trooper, RX-78, and Pale Rider.

Barbatos kills basically anything for free, and Sazabi's or Zaku's damage output will happily shred anything that gets stunned within its range. Though even without the stuns, the bigger problem is that the GM is just incapable of winning a damage race with them on its own and relies on being near teammates to focus-fire down those threats...but that's hardly an issue unique to the GM. Anything that can't push out a stun or a big chunk of burst damage will have little choice but to keep their distance from the Sazabi or Zaku, and even if you see the Barbatos coming, you're lucky if you get two seconds to kill it before it gets you.

Sazabi, as the beefiest suit in the game, has over double the GM's effective HP, and it uses that bulk to muscle its way into shotgun range where it does hefty damage. Seriously, Sazabi's bulk is kinda ridiculous. It's got the highest base HP in the game at 1400, and then its shield has 1600 HP, for a grand total of 3000 HP that you need to chew through. Meanwhile, GM's 800 base + 1300 shield comes in at a mere 2100 effective HP (though it can also self-heal a few hundred HP)...which is still well beyond every non-shielded suit. But the real distinguishing factor is that the Sazabi's beam shotgun does hefty damage and will happily shred almost anything that tries to brawl with it, while the GM can fight decently but doesn't have the pure DPS to just pick someone and tear them to shreds in a couple of shots. It relies on being close enough to its teammates that someone else can help take care of those threats in exchange for getting healing and general support from the GM.

The GM's heal grenade doesn't force recipients into a stationary position; only the Pale Rider's repair beacon does that. The grenade has a fairly solid blast radius, and once someone's been touched by the explosion they'll get the full heal even if they keep moving. Most importantly, it's a burst heal that restores most of a suit's HP over the course of about a second. I find Methuss' heal kinda lackluster because while it's a constant sustained heal that can be retargeted, the healing rate is too slow to make much difference during a push when everyone's actively under fire (the Methuss' other support abilities make up for that weakness, though). The GM and Dom may have less total healing potential, but their burst-heal can immediately drag someone out of the danger zone. And between those two, I think the GM strikes a better balance between healing power and ease of use.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Revitalized posted:

Dev Blog Update vol.3
https://gundamevolution.com/news/42

Dev talks about some of their observations regarding mobile suit balancing from the network test.

The dev addresses Barbatos, Turn A, Marasai, and GM Sniper II

Top 3 win rates were
1. Barbatos
2. Sazabi
3. Pale Rider

Turn A and Marasai were intended by the dev team to be counters- Turn A's Judo throw and Marasai's stun whip were both supposed to counter melee attackers.

The blogpost mentions briefly what they intend to change based on current data, but it sounds like they want to see the console data first before making any decisions.

The Turn A was supposed to counter Barbatos?! Did they actually watch anyone playing the game at any point?

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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free hubcaps posted:

you'll never guess what the point of a playtest is

yeah, so it's a bit weird that their takeaway is that people just didn't realize what they were supposed to use the judo throw for

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Interesting statistics from what the players went for.

The units that got the most "I didn't play it" responses were Exia, Asshimar, Marasai, GM, and Turn A, in that order.

The units that got the fewest "I didn't play it" responses were Pale Rider, Sazabi, Gundam, and Zaku II.

Pale Rider and Sazabi tied for the most "Very Good" ratings (with a fair margin over the other mechs). Pale Rider also had the most "Good" ratings, and by far the least "Bad" or "Very Bad" ratings. I'm a bit surprised to see it so well-received.

Turn A got by far the fewest Good and Very Good ratings, and by far the most "Bad" and "Very Bad" ratings. Marasai and Exia were the runners-up for the least-liked suits, while Barbatos was the runner-up for the most-hated.

The only suits that got more "Very Good" than "Good" ratings were Sazabi and Barbatos. The only suit that got more "Very Bad" than "Bad" ratings was Barbatos. As you might expect, Barbatos also got the fewest "Average" ratings by a huge margin - opinion was very, very polarized there. People either loved it or hated it.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Chillgamesh posted:

Gundam realistically depicts the MIC as a bunch of money-grubbing greedy vultures but unfortunately depicts their pet projects as unbelievably badass mechs instead of a dumbass plane that gets shot down by rain clouds or an infantry transport with a passenger capacity of four dudes

It's more meant to evoke mid-to-late WWII, when the Nazi higher-ups saw the tide turning against them and were getting increasingly obsessed with inventing high-tech superweapons that would bring back their early-war dominance.

Some of them were actually effective enough in combat to be worth it (most weren't), but by then Nazi industry and infrastructure were far too strained by the demands of war to introduce new models in meaningful numbers, and the factories and development centers were seriously threatened by advancing Allied troops, so many of these projects never made it beyond the prototype phase. You really could find a bunch of prototype tanks and fighters scattered around the German countryside if you knew where to look, though usually the scientists and test pilots just ran away instead of dragging the prototypes into last-ditch battles like you'd see in Gundam.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Nuebot posted:

From what I understand doing anything except running away will break your invulnerability. So while it is short lived, using your other skills will make it even shorter? Or maybe I'm just bad at zaku. I just know sometimes people still die extra fast after using that smoke grenade because they keep trying to fight.

I haven't played Zaku since release, since someone else always slampicks it immediately, but I'm pretty sure that in the beta you couldn't use your weapons or other skills at all when the smoke is active.

The issue is that smoke grenade only lasts literally a single second at most, too short to be of any real use in combat. It can buy you an opportunity to get through a doorway or around a corner when you're seriously outmatched, but that's about it. It's 100% an escape tool and nothing else.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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MonsterEnvy posted:

If you were to add one suit from each series you have seen, what would you pick.

the motorcycle mechs from Victory Gundam

or the mechs that transform into helicopters, from Victory Gundam

Victory just has so many goofy great designs

speaking of goofy, WaDs from Turn A. gimme those shorties scurrying around shooting out everyone's kneecaps

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Where does the green currency for actually unlocking anything come from? Is that purely paid?

This is a fun Overwatch-like, but it feels like F2P players don't even get a chance to spin the gacha outside of those two free tickets at the start, and they also don't seem to get any currency for unlocking stuff through regular gameplay either. In Overwatch, you'd get a pretty regular flow of cosmetic stuff even if you never bought anything.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Jack B Nimble posted:

The GM sounds great, it's a Gundam stripper model with crank windows and no radio

Esit: are there not "healers" in thr way that overwatch has them? Or have I just not found one aside from GM having a s76 style heal deploy)

Methuss has a Mercy-style heal beam, Unicorn has a Lucio-style healing aura, Pale Rider has a Soldier76-style healing beacon, Dom Trooper has a Torb-style armor pack, and GM has an Ana-style healing grenade (but without the heal-blocking effect)

Healing isn't as important as it is in OW. You regen all your health if you go a few seconds without being shot at, defeated suits can be resurrected by anyone if the enemy doesn't keep shooting, and there's still plenty of healthpacks around.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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ninjewtsu posted:

I have never seen that grenade stun someone nor been stunned by it. I've never seen it drop a shield and boy I loving tried. It is a mild knockback and mild damage and has made the difference in like 3 fights across zaku being my second most played robot, I would want video evidence of the stun on a player before I believe that.

I think the balance with reload cancelling is already fine, or at least fine enough until some kind of meta develops. What's important with the zaku is that it lets you cut off One (1) reload about 40% faster, saving you a whole like .5 seconds of downtime. It's situationally very powerful because it lets you quickly burst someone who you didn't get a clean clip into the first time, or give you a chance to down someone when they unexpectedly walk around a corner at an inopportune for you time. But in terms of dps over a 10-second shootout or chase it's not really getting you very much. I think this balance concern is fairly overblown in the current state of the game. If anything I like it for balance because it helps keep the turn a competitive outside of its anti-melee niche.

Also given every robot has a different timing it seems like it's intentional on some level? Like I have a cs degree, I've done my share of programming, that seems like a pretty hard mechanic to introduce on accident. Like programmatically someone had to either punch in those cancel times manually or write some kind of system that recognizes when the reload animation hits the "clip fully inserted" point. For what purpose is there a variable floating around that coincides with the gun's clip inserted time of the animation? Why would that be measured to begin with? Idk why they'd put that in and never mention it though.

I've been stunned by the Zaku grenade before. It's a very short stun, not much more than a brief interrupt of whatever you were doing. But when you're at close range with a Zaku, every millisecond of being immobilized feels like hours.

The underlying mechanic (the reload itself being complete before the actual reload animation is done) is intentional and makes perfect sense. It's a forgiveness mechanic that reduces the amount of pain a player feels from getting stunned mid-reload or being forced to use an ability in the middle of their reload, by making it so they don't have to restart the reload from the beginning if they were most of the way through the reload when they got stopped. It sucks to be almost done with a reload, get hit by an enemy ability or need to pop one of your own abilities, and then have to start the reload all over again. And making "when the clip goes into the gun" be the time at which that forgiveness period starts makes sense from an immersion perspective, so it won't feel as weird to players.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kitfox88 posted:

Pretty much this. I don't see Exia coming at me and sigh because if it fucks up it's probably going to eat poo poo and if it doesn't gently caress up then the person is actually playing it with some skill. Barbatos has neither of those.

If you see Barbatos coming at you, it's already hosed up

It's not any faster than you are and its jump is super telegraphed

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Endorph posted:

a guntank that knows how to flank and pick its spots can take over a game just as hard as a good sniper its just that since the guntank is closer to you it feels like theres more counterplay, even though the amount of counterplay is about the same, its just the counterplay to the guntank is more reflex and game-skill oriented while the counter to the sniper is more game knowledge oriented. to me this isnt a meaningful distinction in terms of game feel or anything

the guntank can't instakill you though

sure, it's got autoaim, but its time-to-kill is relatively long, giving people plenty of time to react

my big problem with sniper in this game tho is that sniper-hunting in this game is way less fun than in TF2 or Overwatch. the map design means you have to take massively roundabout routes to sneak up on the enemy sniper spots, which also tend to be pretty close to the rest of their team. there's no anti-quickscope mechanic, so they're relatively dangerous even at close-range. and even the most mobile of the mobile suits aren't actually noticeably faster than the sniper, so even if they can't hit you they can just run away

dunking on piss-wielding Aussies glued to their scopes was fun as hell, but in this game it's just a pain in the rear end

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Nehru the Damaja posted:

Someone explain to me what a good Dom Trooper does because I clearly haven't figured it out. I put up solid performances on Sazabi, Gundam, Asshimar and Pale Rider, but as Dom Trooper I feel like I'm made of paper and unable to damage anything.

Dom Trooper isn't really a self-sufficient head-on brawler like those other suits, it's more of a combat support type centered around area control and denial, using its big rocket explosions to soften up enemy pushes from a distance and then using the rest of its toolkit to support the team counterattack and pick off the weakened enemies.

Use your mobility to scoot around the fringes of the battlefield, providing cover fire for your allies and softening up enemies. Aim low with your rockets so they'll explode at the enemy's feet even if your aim's a bit off. Use the hitscan laser to finish off badly-damaged enemies running for cover. Find the health pack that's most convenient for the enemies to use and drop a mine or two next to it. Use your armor pack on teammates that are pushing forward or getting attacked.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kwolok posted:

In tons of my games I dash back and get way far away only for the game to decide "actually you got hit" and it vacuums me back under his mace. Or if you are not a three dash suit, how do you out dash him?

Besides tons of characters in this game devolve down to "listen for the enemy, if you hear them reposition appropriately". But no other suit in the game punishes you for a single mistake quite like barb. (maybe marusai too, or exia). But what happens if barb makes a mistake in the positioning game? He probably just dashes and leaps away lol.

Try shooting him? Barb can't hit you if you're dashing away, but you can still hit the Barb when it's dashing away.

I can see how bad lag might make it incredibly frustrating to play against a character built around stuns and two-hit-kills that barely need to be aimed, though.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Pretty sure that's just lighting. Try comparing your end screen on an outdoor map, rather than the menus which don't have any real lighting

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kanos posted:

The game is so fast and twitchy that I literally can't imagine it ever feeling good to play on pad.

How do you even deal with melee suits if you can't reliably headshot them?

just press the transform button and fly, fly away

if you're not playing a transforming suit, my condolences on your bad choices. asshimar is the only one I'm gonna miss when this game dies

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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neosloth posted:

I understand that they are trying to remove one hit kills but these nerfs on marasai and turn a are comical. What are these chars supposed to do

Rather than one-hit kills, it seems more like they're trying to take stun-to-kill combos away from non-melee suits. I guess they're aiming for more "immobilize the enemy at close range so your whole team can shoot it" and less "single-handedly wreck anyone who manages to dodge your otherwise long-range kit and close on you".

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Kwolok posted:

Yeah units that have to get up in the face of the enemy or enemy team shouldn't be rewarded with one hit kills. But a characer who can literally just sit behind his entire team and one shot people at any range is cool and normal.

It seems like what they're targeting right now isn't the one-shots themselves, it's the stuns. And specifically stuns on suits that aren't really focused on short-range combat.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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maybe it's because I don't play ranked or something, but I've never really had a problem with GM Sniper

i don't play the game much because matchmaking takes forever, the monetization is garbo, and maybe half the rounds have at least one leaver

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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was not expecting them to reference the old Toonami trailer

fuckin rad

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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The flip seems like a really solid mobility tool, and it seems like it'll also have the flexibility to choose between sustained fire or bursting someone down.

Kinda gives me the feel of an unholy mix between Zaku and Asshimar. Use the movement ability to get to unexpected places, then get the jump on people and pump bullets into them from an unexpected angle before they can react. If something goes wrong, hit the missile button to burst them down or flip away if it's off cooldown.

Assuming the guns are actually powerful enough to do any of that, anyway

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Ah, the familiar loop of "we added a bunch of units with powerful barriers, shields, and other defenses" -> "the glass cannon shitwreckers couldn't hurt the shielded units enough, so we're buffing them" -> "most of the units we didn't buff previously are doing worse for some reason, let's buff them while nerfing the ones that were still doing good" -> rinse, repeat

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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Twitch drops have been added, so if you link your account here, you can get a whopping 3 supply tickets and 150CP after watching three and a half hours of Twitch streamers, every two weeks

not exactly impressive but i guess if you're gonna be watching streamers play this for some reason anyway...

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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RBA Starblade posted:

The new game mode's a neat idea but it could use a lot of work and a player base smarter than pond scum to play it

Combining standing on a point AND shooting something? You ask the impossible of hero shooter players. The worst is we lost 5-4 in a way we could have won if a Guntank had simply held down left click. He ran away instead.

in fairness, the new mode feels way more enemy-dense than the previous modes

the map design is really effective at channeling everyone into one or two chokepoints or fight-rooms, with all the flanking routes exiting directly into those same chokepoints, and healthpacks temptingly placed just outside the fight rooms

it's the only map where i won't immediately slampick asshimar. the extra mobility is basically useless there. guntank on the other hand is basically guaranteed MVP there

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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ninjewtsu posted:

i really wish that instead of being based around stuns and kill combos barbatos just did large amounts of damage in melee so fighting it was an actual, like, fight

honestly that just sounds worse

if I juke a Barbatos into missing its stun or any other part of its combo, then it's not really a threat to anyone until its moves come off cooldown

if Barbatos had no stun and just did a fuckton of regular mace-swing damage, a good Barb could probably tear entire teams to shreds at once, instead of just dumpstering one mech and leaping away every ten seconds

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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ninjewtsu posted:

probably something similar to fighting literally any other unit in the game

maybe they get the jump on me and cleave off half my health, i dash away and we play positioning while i try to shoot him/lure him to my friends and he either chases to stop me from doing that or backs off

so you know, like it is now except both parties do something after the initial contact rather than that being a binary win/lose for the barbatos

idk man i'm not a game designer but i can say that stun->kill combo based gameplay sucks dick so they should have done anything else. there are infinite possibilities for what else a barbatos could be and many of them are probably better than this garbage.

imo, Marasai is a way worse offender in terms of lovely stuns

at least a Barbatos has to get up close to stun me and then kill me before I can move. Marasai can do it from across the room

I don't think there's any way to make melee-range units both fun to play and fun to play against, though. there aren't enough dashes to really play positioning with them, and they can't afford to take more than a couple of seconds to kill enemies anyway since they're perpetually at risk of being outnumbered and overwhelmed

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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the fact that their last addition was a sniper and their next addition is a melee unit is not encouraging

who thought the game needed more of either of those

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Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

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at least we'll get another transforming suit to fly around in, those are incredibly fuckin fun

oh, wait, almost forgot there's absolutely no chance in hell i'm gonna be able to grind up enough currency for another new suit before the game shuts down

welp, guess i don't really care what the new suits are

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