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I saw this posted in US CE and it's circulating around right wing media as trans panic bullshit. I kinda wonder what her own words on it would be, is this like a political statement? idk "Treat this just the same as if a cis woman was doing it" definitely seems like a reasonable take. Also, her being a shop teacher I feel like that's possibly a safety hazard lol
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Sep 21, 2022 02:55
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Fritz the Horse posted:Also, her being a shop teacher I feel like that's possibly a safety hazard lol Honestly my first thought when I clicked the video was "hang on, where's her safety gear"
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Sep 21, 2022 03:03
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some plague rats posted:Honestly my first thought when I clicked the video was "hang on, where's her safety gear" I guess making a chain mail shirt for buxom people would be a learning experience in shop class, but surely there are better pedagogical methods than gigantic prosthetic hooters
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Sep 21, 2022 04:23
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Rappaport posted:I guess making a chain mail shirt for buxom people would be a learning experience in shop class, but surely there are better pedagogical methods than gigantic prosthetic hooters Not claiming you need a suit of plate that will accommodate those sandbags but I mean tie your hair back when you're using the drop saw for gods sake!!
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Sep 21, 2022 04:53
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Fritz the Horse posted:I saw this posted in US CE and it's circulating around right wing media as trans panic bullshit. I kinda wonder what her own words on it would be, is this like a political statement? idk I thought it was too dumb a story to post in the LGBTQ thread, her massive bazongas are what's newsworthy, not her trans status
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Sep 21, 2022 11:02
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I mean, while it's an extreme example, and the school setting and safety concerns do complicate matters, there's also a genuine discussion to be had about how women with large busts get discriminated against in the workplace for dressing "unprofessionally." (Read: wearing clothes that fit) But yes, whether or not the woman in question is trans shouldn't have any bearing on that conversation.
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Sep 21, 2022 18:59
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I’m not going to make fun of you for being trans. I am going to make fun of you for wearing something that belongs on deviantart.
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Sep 21, 2022 23:54
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Cattail Prophet posted:I mean, while it's an extreme example, and the school setting and safety concerns do complicate matters, there's also a genuine discussion to be had about how women with large busts get discriminated against in the workplace for dressing "unprofessionally." (Read: wearing clothes that fit) why do you think its a good idea to bring that up in this context. dont
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Sep 22, 2022 02:05
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Pollyanna posted:I’m not going to make fun of you for being trans. I am going to make fun of you for wearing something that belongs on deviantart.
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Sep 22, 2022 02:39
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idk this story has that fishy tabloid smell of context being omitted or fabricated. i don't discount it entirely or think trans people are incapable of doing something incredibly silly like this but it feels like a piece is missing.
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Sep 22, 2022 16:03
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local woman has mental health crisis, makes a very bad decision, hits the news feels like a complete story to me. it's just a sad one
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Sep 22, 2022 18:14
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This is just stupid all around and the only reason it’s considered news is because terrible people are pushing it as a chance to point and laugh at haw haw weird trans people.
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Sep 22, 2022 18:42
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Yes. If it were a cisgender woman with extremely large surgically enhanced breasts it wouldn't have legs as a story. It's about shaming a transgender woman for anything besides what they should be (workshop safety)
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Sep 22, 2022 18:54
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:idk this story has that fishy tabloid smell of context being omitted or fabricated. i don't discount it entirely or think trans people are incapable of doing something incredibly silly like this but it feels like a piece is missing. at first glance my impression is that this is some sort of dress up day?
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Sep 23, 2022 20:37
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:idk this story has that fishy tabloid smell of context being omitted or fabricated. i don't discount it entirely or think trans people are incapable of doing something incredibly silly like this but it feels like a piece is missing. :tenbux: says that it's a right winger who is using this to play into the "Trans people are harming your kids" narrative. -The only videos are all sourced back to two accounts - the King Royce one, and then a youtuber with like 5k subscribers who runs a "news" station that is just right wing propaganda who did the pool video. -The "interview" with Margo Shuttleworth was only run by the Toronto Sun and the Toronto Sun is just, well, an absolute pinnacle of factual reporting, innit? -this is the only "interview" where the school says anything outright supportive of the teacher in question. -The only other interview with a member of the school board was where the aforementioned youtuber ambushed Ennis and then there are a million jump cuts in the video - he's clearly omitting context, and badly. -Shuttleworth and Ennis are both up for reelection. they are also very pro racial inclusion. They are very pro LGBT. They are very progressive. -Right wing media has already named Hanna wrongly - who is also a progressive school board member. Everything about this stinks to high heaven. This is something that is so clearly putting the school board into a "heads i win tails you lose" situation. The school board fires them, the opponents go "this person is a LIAR when they say they support your LGBT kids, they fired a teacher for simply expressing their gender, so they are clearly hypocrites when they say they support inclusion." if the school board is supportive it becomes "these people support this grotesque chariacture the proves it's a fetish" I have no doubt that it is a teacher who is doing this as a political stunt to discredit the school board he disagrees with. e: not even 12 hours after posting this anons on 4chan are confirming my tinhat theory is right. he's an MRA "based and redpilled" type, who is doing this because hes been reprimanded multiple times for enforcing "toxic masculinity" in the classroom. He has it out for the school board and got a few conservative pundits on board with him to make the school board look bad. The Shuttleworth interview may well have been her trying to get back at him by saying hes been a woman for years. Dr Jankenstein fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 25, 2022 |
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Sep 25, 2022 03:53
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So that teacher with the prosthetic breasts was a right wing op. Not really surprised and also partly why I avoided any discussion about it because it seemed so obvious, but the mainstream media really ran with that poo poo. https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1581000538195636224
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Oct 16, 2022 00:37
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I'm in the UK and I've been on a GIC waiting list for four years now. I'm 36 and I feel like I'm not going to hear anything from them until my 40s at this point, and I'm just so tired. I can just about afford private HRT which I've been on for a while, but I'm so exhausted by the state of trans support. I feel the inertia so badly. Lockdown really took it out of me and I feel a little like my social transition has become stagnant. I'm okay, I'm just sad. I don't have anything to say, really, or any greater point to make. I just wanted to yell into something that wasn't the void. Hate this island. Sigh.
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Oct 16, 2022 12:14
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SomeKindofVerb posted:I'm in the UK and I've been on a GIC waiting list for four years now. I'm 36 and I feel like I'm not going to hear anything from them until my 40s at this point, and I'm just so tired. I can just about afford private HRT which I've been on for a while, but I'm so exhausted by the state of trans support. I feel the inertia so badly. Lockdown really took it out of me and I feel a little like my social transition has become stagnant. But much love to you, and I'm sorry for how lovely that is.
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Oct 16, 2022 13:51
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Unfortunately, the UK being as it is and every news outlet being basically fox news, any amount of service provision at all is "reckless" A terrible country full of detestable people. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 17:59
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Meanwhile in the US, Boston Children's Hospital got a loving bomb threat for providing gender-affirming care. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/westfield-woman-arrested-for-boston-childrens-hospital-bomb-threat/ar-AA11Ssdk The woman who called in the bomb threat was arrested. It seems the bomb threat was a bluff. Right-wing social media has spread lies about Boston Children's Hospital. The hospital refutes one of the lies in the above article: "The hospital clarified that age 18 is the standard age of majority for medical decision-making, and that it does not perform hysterectomies as part of gender-affirming care on patients under the age of 18." I realize this story is a month old, but I didn't see it earlier in this thread so I'm posting it.
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Oct 16, 2022 18:55
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Does the US have an equivalent of Gillick competence?
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Oct 16, 2022 19:01
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OwlFancier posted:Does the US have an equivalent of Gillick competence? I never heard of Gillick competence before today, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. "Gillick competence is a term originating in England and Wales and is used in medical law to decide whether a child (a person under 16 years of age) is able to consent to their own medical treatment, without the need for parental permission or knowledge." US laws vary from state to state, but the whole concept of "no need for parental permission or knowledge" is extremely demonized by the right wing. A legally emancipated minor in the US might be able to do certain things without parental knowledge or consent. Beyond that, I have no idea. From a realistic perspective, a child in the US who needs gender affirming care is very unlikely to get it without parental consent, simply because medical care costs much more money than a child is likely to have. Adult trans people here often have problems affording gender affirming care, especially if they're unfortunate enough to live in an area where none of the medical insurance providers cover it.
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Oct 16, 2022 23:16
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Essentially yes, specifically as far as I am aware the UK explicitly does not have any concept of "parental rights" and the parent's job is to ensure the child's wellbeing, and thus if the child can demonstrate satisfactorily (to a set of established standards) that they understand the situation, they can consent to medical care without their parents being informed, much less consulted. As you say the right wing absolutely hates it because they view children as property, but IMO it's a very good thing and I guess I was just wondering how it works for your legal minors getting stuff like affirming care. I don't think the UK would do radical stuff before age 18 just out of an abudnance of caution, but I don't know if there is any actual legal obstacle to it, whereas I dunno if the US does have them.
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Oct 17, 2022 01:46
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The answer for the US: It's a mess and entirely inconsistent, even access to birth control for minors is not the same state to state. We're in a huge mess of states banning access, other states creating access. And a lot of stuff is also about the doctor you get. I went to an urgent care in my very rural farming town recently for pneumonia and had these really lovely cis male doctors who were incredibly caring and respectful of my gender, even giving me good advice. I tried to get a primary care physician in a more liberal nearby city and was basically told I could not be taken on as a patient because my HRT complicated my body too much and then he randomly kept reminding me that I still need to get pap smears. I um... don't get pap smears for reasons that were clear from the information I provided. Can't imagine navigating nightmare doctors as a teenager. I think what sucks is that we really should have clearer best practices and guidelines at a governmental level with stuff regarding schooling and transitioning for trans kids that uses the AAP and AMA guidelines, but like the sports debate, the debate is mudded by bad actors.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:59
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The thing that really pisses me off is that puberty-blockers are used precisely so that children don't have to make permanent decisions until they're old enough to really think through the consequences and decide what's the right choice for themselves. Deciding to restrict the medications which allow that free choice is nothing but the naturalistic fallacy, because puberty is pretty fuckin' permanent in a lot of ways. Also, and I think this gets missed a lot by the media that's uncritically repeating all this stupid transphobic poo poo: for most people, trans or cis, the changes associated with the puberty aligning with your gender identity are largely positive. If you're cisgender, then the puberty your body naturally goes through is one that will affirm your gender identity. I don't see the average cis teenager going "yeah, I'm not sure that's for me, let's hit the pause button on that one."
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Oct 17, 2022 05:36
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Victar posted:I never heard of Gillick competence before today, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. "Gillick competence is a term originating in England and Wales and is used in medical law to decide whether a child (a person under 16 years of age) is able to consent to their own medical treatment, without the need for parental permission or knowledge." Note in disgusting truths that 'need for consent of an adult guardian' has been used to keep child brides from getting medical care (including contraceptives or abortions) or filing for divorce from their of-age husbands, as they are legally speaking their guardians.
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Oct 18, 2022 08:05
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PT6A posted:I don't see the average cis teenager going "yeah, I'm not sure that's for me, let's hit the pause button on that one." You'd be surprised, however they've got every right to those medications as well
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Oct 18, 2022 11:29
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PT6A posted:The thing that really pisses me off is that puberty-blockers are used precisely so that children don't have to make permanent decisions until they're old enough to really think through the consequences and decide what's the right choice for themselves. Deciding to restrict the medications which allow that free choice is nothing but the naturalistic fallacy, because puberty is pretty fuckin' permanent in a lot of ways. And it's not even about being bad faith actors. My son was having an issue hitting in daycare and I was looking stuff up for support. I found a lady on Reddit who had a similar issue and was very concerned because many of the toddlers in her son's daycare and that meant her son was much stronger than them... her fifteen month old son. But it does set up this weird dynamic where I feel like trans people end up learning an incredible amount about biology, hormones, and sex. And then are faced with at best well-meaning people who are like, "Boys have penises and girls have vaginas."
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Oct 18, 2022 17:35
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I feel like honestly, apart from the actual biological understanding, the best argument for the sex/gender split is that I have met many people in my life, and have examined the gentials of virtually none of them and the chromosomes of even fewer of them, and yet I am still quite happy gendering them, so clearly they are not the same thing. It's not just a lack of technical knowledge it's a resistance to thinking about it even slightly.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:40
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I think it's mostly starting from the assumption that trans people aren't real in some way. Either their needs matter less than those of cis kids, or that transness is more of an impermanent aesthetic whim. Because people recognize how destructive giving a young boy estrogen or a young girl testosterone is. It's built into the fear mongering about trans people. They just don't believe or don't care that trans people can also suffer from this.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:47
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like honestly, apart from the actual biological understanding, the best argument for the sex/gender split is that I have met many people in my life, and have examined the gentials of virtually none of them and the chromosomes of even fewer of them, and yet I am still quite happy gendering them, so clearly they are not the same thing.
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Oct 19, 2022 04:17
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There are a shitload of people who are deeply unsophisticated and low-information, and reliably fall for 'just asking questions' rhetoric from the far right on many issues.
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Oct 19, 2022 09:19
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also it's important to note that a lot of people aren't blatant obvious bigots, they're bigots who don't think of themselves as bigots hence: "I support transgender people i just don't think you should be grooming children for pedophilia and forcing operations on schoolkids and dominating every single sport" it's basically "I'm not a racist but I wish black people wouldn't be so fleet of foot and criminal".
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Oct 19, 2022 18:56
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Jaxyon posted:also it's important to note that a lot of people aren't blatant obvious bigots, they're bigots who don't think of themselves as bigots Yep. And when it's pointed out that trans folk aren't grooming anyone, nor forcing operations on anyone, and are just as good/bad at sport as everyone else, the response is usually "Maybe, but they could start doing any and all of those things. Better crush their rights preemptively just in case." I would also add, particularly on the "trans in sport" thing, that I would argue that your average normal person cares a great deal more about the football team they barrack for than they do about the gender of the person next to them in the line at the supermarket. So your right wing transphobic culture warriors used that as a way to try and turn mostly apathetic/supportive people into transphobes by going "Hey, you know thatthing you care about? Football. Well the evil transes are ruining it! So if you care about football, you must hate them."
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Oct 20, 2022 06:22
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I wish all involved would perceive that trans peoples' sporting category is going to be a case by case basis for the foreseeable future. I am a beginning kendo player who transitioned well after puberty. I have a longer reach than almost all cis women. My endurance sucks but that's due to being out of shape. I use a men's weight sword and if I ever compete for kicks, I will be in the men's division. It is an obvious choice and there are far more important hills to die on, like making sure I have a place to change while respecting the modesty of all involved. I am sure a pre-puberty or early-puberty transitioning trans woman will eventually fit very neatly into the women's division. Me not pitching a fit about the facts of my case, helps their case when it comes up.
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Oct 20, 2022 06:33
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BrigadierSensible posted:I would also add, particularly on the "trans in sport" thing, that I would argue that your average normal person cares a great deal more about the football team they barrack for than they do about the gender of the person next to them in the line at the supermarket. So your right wing transphobic culture warriors used that as a way to try and turn mostly apathetic/supportive people into transphobes by going "Hey, you know thatthing you care about? Football. Well the evil transes are ruining it! So if you care about football, you must hate them." It has definitely been used as a right wing wedge issue, but I don't think it's because people care in the way you're describing. If you rounded up a group of "average" people and they all said that they care deeply about women's swimming or weightlifting, I'd feel pretty comfortable calling almost all of them liars. I don't think it's meant to be making transphobes out of sports fans at any significant scale (though certainly some of that will happen just by getting some individuals sucked into the radicalization pipeline), it's just an outlet for preexisting feelings of "I don't understand this, I find it uncomfortable, and therefore I demand it stop" that is deemed acceptable in ~*the discourse*~.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:32
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The Rosetta Stone of a lot of conservativism is the old explanation of once you can't just say the n-word anymore, you have to figure out other ways to achieve the same goals. Transgender politics are in a weird place because obviously you can still simply be a crass rear end in a top hat about it. But you will see terfs have "are we the baddies" moments or Ben Shapiro admit deadnaming is rude when he isn't profiteering over terrorist propaganda. But Conservatives will always try to wiggle in through "common sense." In the same way that the backlash against abolition of cash bail is happening with absolutely zero evidence that it has caused harm, Conservatives often try to latch onto things that feel true or have a very simple a to b relationship and then label nuance as a war against obvious truth. Top surgeries for 16 year olds, the very minor side-effects of puberty blockers, and trans athletes are how they get there on this issue. It's just the same song with different lyrics. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 24, 2022 |
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Oct 23, 2022 22:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:The Rosetta Stone of a lot of conservativism is the old explanation of once you can't just say the n-word anymore, you have to figure out other ways to achieve the same goals. I largely agree with this, but I'd also like to point out that in all these cases -- literally all of them -- and more, including COVID vaccines, and probably whatever other stupid poo poo they push, the conservative viewpoint is asking us to consider the worst possible outcomes of A Given Choice, while never considering the average or worst-case consequences of simply choosing to do nothing and continue with the status quo. "The thing we've been doing must be great, because we've been doing it, therefore if the new thing causes any problems, it's clearly worse." It's a ridiculous line of thought, but it's very popular, so the response must be: by choosing to change nothing, you still have made a choice with its own consequences and (importantly) you own those consequences. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
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Oct 24, 2022 05:38
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The Covid stuff is just boilerplate rhetoric of reaction, with its roots in the anti-tax and anti-government movements of the 70s. The root motive for many people making those absurd claims is no more complicated than "seatbelts will actually kill more people than they save" - auto manufacturers, but it appealed to a specific reactionary 'common sense' conservative mindset that fears change but views fear as unmanly and so repositions it as "therefore if the new thing causes any problems, it's clearly worse" like you say. Add in a bunch of sexual moralizing and gay panic and you get all the anti-LGBT "why can't the world just be exactly the same as it was when I didn't have to think about it" stuff.
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Oct 24, 2022 10:30
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PT6A posted:I largely agree with this, but I'd also like to point out that in all these cases -- literally all of them -- and more, including COVID vaccines, and probably whatever other stupid poo poo they push, the conservative viewpoint is asking us to consider the worst possible outcomes of A Given Choice, while never considering the average or worst-case consequences of simply choosing to do nothing and continue with the status quo. "The thing we've been doing must be great, because we've been doing it, therefore if the new thing causes any problems, it's clearly worse." This quirk is bigger than just conservatism, imo. It's the reason opt-out organ donor programs get more people to sign up than opt-in. It's also the thought process the trolley problem is intended to shine a light on. It's very frustrating because you're exactly right with your last paragraph.
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Oct 25, 2022 07:46
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