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When it comes to the question of nature or nurture, "OR" tends to be the word that is actually incorrect. I'm on the autistic spectrum, so there is absolutely a genetic aspect of me that made me predisposed to be trans. And as mentioned, there are studies that hint at some predisposition to gayness. But our culture and upbringing also matter. In another culture in another time, I might be a two-spirit or husband-wife, but I live in 21 Century America, so I'm trans. The context does matter. The "Gay people are born" that way argument was necessary for much of the progress we made, but it is inherently problematic. It worked to garner empathy and also give an easy explanation for gay conversion was inhumane. The problem is that it also meant that people who accepted gay people didn't also accept bi people because they clearly could be in a heterosexual relationship. It also other-ed straight men who have had crushes or experiences with other men as being secretly gay when the reality is that more straight men have these experiences than is often discussed. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 19:01
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I mean gently caress that noise, I can eat cheese too if I'm willing to put up with the consequences, that doesn't make me lactose tolerant.  Oh, and of course since it's Friday, noted human-shaped pile of excrement and traitor Marjorie Taylor Green felt the need to show the world her rear end in a top hat like a hairless cat on a glass table. https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1560660360373620737 Full text here: https://greene.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/greene.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/Protect_Children%27s_Innocence_Act_Bill_Text.pdf
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Aug 19, 2022 19:10
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Plus far too many 'experts' who were too deep into gay gene stuff were also colossal weirdos who ended up at fetal sexuality testing or gay tests for employment or other extremely gross bullshit. With gender, if people actively need to seek out gender affirming medical care that care ought to have some medical backing to it. Transmedicalism is a problem, but things being done via medicine need medical review around them, whereas I can't think of a good similarity for sexuality. I guess maybe the terrible "if PrEP is readily available then people will just go around having gay sex" arguments that entirely reverse reality.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:12
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Anyone, at any age, should be able to choose their own hormone profile. The medical control should be informed consent. This is not something that is appropriately controlled by having a set of particular disorders with particular prescriptive therapies, though that is the current (bad; failing) standard of care.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:45
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Ohtori Akio posted:Anyone, at any age, should be able to choose their own hormone profile. The medical control should be informed consent. This is not something that is appropriately controlled by having a set of particular disorders with particular prescriptive therapies, though that is the current (bad; failing) standard of care. This is literally a procedure that impacts my ability to exist in my birth sex less than HRT itself does/has! I was (luckily) referred to *specific* Psych Doctors by my trans-focused clinic: some random Psych D probably has only a cursory understanding of trans people, and some are transphobic monsters. One woman who got bottom surgery said in her video about that if you want bottom surgery, you should probably lie to your psychs that you're a woman even if you're non-binary, because a lot of Psych Ds will apparently be like, "Well, if you're not a woman, you obviously don't need this surgery." Like, this is all an artifact of the pathologization of being trans and treating it as a mental disorder. I'm incredibly fortunate in that I have the time and ability to drive myself all across this state to consult with Psychs: a lot of trans women would just be poo poo out of luck. And, of course, Husky doesn't *really* cover electrolysis, which is both more effective than laser and necessary for lighter hair, because you can count the number of in-network providers on one hand. No reimbursements, because gently caress you.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:17
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It's a really weird convoluted system to let the provider know you want something by having you go to several mental health professionals, tell them you want it, and then they write letters saying you want it. This serves the same function as an extremely routine part of any other medical procedure, where the doctor verifies that you are lucid and capable of consent. It should take a couple seconds. e: And, these additional procedures have no measurable impact on regret rates, which, as it happens, are extraordinarily low. If this process did help with regret rates, they would be better off employing it with hip replacements or chemotherapy or lasik, which have higher regret rates. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 21:38
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Timeless Appeal posted:When it comes to the question of nature or nurture, "OR" tends to be the word that is actually incorrect. I'm on the autistic spectrum, so there is absolutely a genetic aspect of me that made me predisposed to be trans. Okay, so this is something I'm curious about (disclaimer: am, to the best of my knowledge, neurotypical, and not particularly informed about autism specific issues): I've generally been under the impression that the correlation between autism and transness isn't so much indicative of an inherent predisposition as it is a reflection that the circumstances of navigating allistic society mean that A) You're more likely to recognize that you're trans, and B) trying to stay closeted is even more mentally draining for you. Am I actually totally off base here?
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Aug 19, 2022 23:42
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Well, we really don't know why some people are trans, why people some people are autistic, and why there seems to be a correlation. But yes, I had some crying bouts when I had fully come to terms with my transness and how my brain works because I finally realizes how insanely tired I was from trying to pass all the time.
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Aug 20, 2022 15:21
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:Just for emphasis, I live in Connecticut, a state with comparatively excellent coverage for trans care, but I need letters from two Psych Doctors certifying that I am A) sane and B) a trans woman just for Husky (CT Medicaid) to consider paying for laser hair removal.  its a minor procedure with no real risk. You can do that at home now though, I bought an IPL (intense light pulse) thing for hair removal and it works in just as few treatments as profession laser hair removal. You can get one for less than $200, so that might be an option.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:10
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cat botherer posted:
Also, different people have different experiences with laser. My hair is red, so lasers more or less do nothing. I went to a consultation and the doctor told me that I would honestly be lucky if she could get 10% removal. If I ever do it, electrolysis is my best bet, but it is prohibitively expensive. Luckily, my new insurer is probably going to cover it, but I'm also in a red state so seems likely my process could get interrupted.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:18
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Norah Vincent, author of "Self Made Man" is dead at 53 of physician assisted suicide in Switzerland
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Aug 21, 2022 04:04
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One of my friends in New Mexico got his first monkeypox vaccine, this is an example of quite good messaging targeted at the highest-risk people and activities (dance floor is a great point I hadn't thought of), though as I've posted before that's separate from how you message to the wider public: edit: it also doesn't mention gender identity or sexual preference anywhere on there though it's clearly targeted to the LGBTQIA+ community with the rainbow colors. It's pretty decent! Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 22:04
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Hits keep on coming: https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/florida-private-christian-school-asks-lgbtq-students-to-leave/quote:HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) – A Florida mother is opening up about her decision to remove her lesbian daughter from a private Christian school with a policy that gay students are not welcome and “would be asked to leave immediately.”
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Aug 23, 2022 01:34
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“I actually respect their opinion,” she said, drat i love when leopards eat my face. please, take another bite, leopards. my eyes are quite juicy!
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Aug 23, 2022 01:39
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In good Christian news that got kinda buried, the Episcopalian Church formally endorsed the ability of all of its members to transition.quote:The Episcopal Church recently backed Episcopalians of any age seeking gender-affirming care in medical, social or other settings. The 80th General Convention, which is the highest governing body of the church, passed a resolution on the endorsement. It specified that Episcopalians seeking gender-affirming care would be accepted and supported by the church, a move that has sparked great debate on social media. It is pretty disgusting how a pretty small minority of Christians create a false culture war between queerness and faith.
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Aug 23, 2022 03:27
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i am glad there won’t be another church trying to murder us but i’d be happier never seeing or hearing or reading about any of them ever again at least the real fucks split away like fifteen years ago
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Aug 23, 2022 03:58
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Does SA still use Cloudflare because maybe they shouldn't anymore when they keep running cover for chuds like this. https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565795457145704448?t=vlfshqrNawwLaMzXCv4CeQ&s=19
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Sep 3, 2022 02:09
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UnknownMercenary posted:Does SA still use Cloudflare because maybe they shouldn't anymore when they keep running cover for chuds like this. one sec. checking with admins on what's okay to share on this. somebody might swing through to give an "official" answer and more details short answer: yes, SA still uses Cloudflare it's been discussed at length recently in mod forum. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:01
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I mean I'm connected through it right now.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:04
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Hi, One of the main reasons we have not moved off of Cloudflare is that there isn't another provider that provides the service we need to maintain our forum uptime while being at a price that is reasonable. Uprooting the site in solidarity is a good gesture, but not a practical one at this time. I will defer to Astral or Jeff for a more detailed explanation, but from my understanding that is the gist of it.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:19
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It’d be nice to communicate to the provider that we are not happy sharing services with KF. Feedback from customers is louder than feedback from the general public.
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Sep 3, 2022 13:32
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doingitwrong posted:It’d be nice to communicate to the provider that we are not happy sharing services with KF. Feedback from customers is louder than feedback from the general public. I mean this genuinely: it would be a good QCS topic. There's an open admin feedback/Q&A thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4011310 or you could start one specifically regarding Kiwifarms and Cloudflare. Like I mentioned, it's an issue that's been discussed quite a bit in the last few days in the mod forum and I'm sure Jeffrey would weigh in. I also don't recall your specific suggestion of lodging a complaint with Cloudflare being mentioned, so that could definitely be worth communicating to the admin crew. Apologies if I sound like I'm being cagey or secretive. Mod forum discussion is pretty sacrosanct especially on very serious issues like this and I also don't want to speak for Jeff. He's shared thoughts on this issue and if you bring it up in QCS (where the rest of the forums could see comments instead of just in this small thread) I'm sure you'd get a direct, detailed response.
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Sep 3, 2022 14:20
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Cloudflare changed their mind. https://archive.ph/NkfgB quote:Cloudfare Chief Executive Matthew Prince, who earlier this week published a lengthy blog post justifying the company’s services defending Kiwi Farms, told The Washington Post he had changed his mind amid an online campaign against the site and a surge in credible violent threats stemming from the site.
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Sep 3, 2022 23:40
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Good gently caress KF.
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Sep 3, 2022 23:45
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm on the autistic spectrum, so there is absolutely a genetic aspect of me that made me predisposed to be trans. the gently caress
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Sep 4, 2022 10:26
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Miss Broccoli posted:the gently caress I can't comment re: genetics but a quick google scholar search suggests that people who are on the autism spectrum are more likely to be trans (or maybe vice versa?): https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/ quote:People who do not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth are three to six times as likely to be autistic as cisgender people are, according to the largest study yet to examine the connection1. Gender-diverse people are also more likely to report autism traits and to suspect they have undiagnosed autism. here's the main underlying research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32770077/ from the abstract: quote:To investigate this, we use five independently recruited cross-sectional datasets consisting of 641,860 individuals who completed information on gender, neurodevelopmental and psychiatric diagnoses including autism, and measures of traits related to autism (self-report measures of autistic traits, empathy, systemizing, and sensory sensitivity). Compared to cisgender individuals, transgender and gender-diverse individuals have, on average, higher rates of autism, other neurodevelopmental and psychiatric diagnoses. For both autistic and non-autistic individuals, transgender and gender-diverse individuals score, on average, higher on self-report measures of autistic traits, systemizing, and sensory sensitivity, and, on average, lower on self-report measures of empathy. I don't know how good spectrumnews is but the research seems pretty legit. I'm sure Timeless Appeal will clarify what she meant 
Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Sep 4, 2022 |
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Sep 4, 2022 10:44
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to me that all suggests we as a society need to pay more attention to the intersection between autism spectrum and gender-diversity and generally be aware there's a good amount of overlap.
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Sep 4, 2022 10:51
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yeah that will happen when as discussed above we have to go through mental health screening for something so simple as hair removal let alone anything complex like a surgery. cis people don't face that same scrutiny and autism is classically hard to diagnose after children have had masking beaten into them
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Sep 4, 2022 10:51
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Miss Broccoli posted:yeah that will happen when as discussed above we have to go through mental health screening for something so simple as hair removal let alone anything complex like a surgery. cis people don't face that same scrutiny and autism is classically hard to diagnose after children have had masking beaten into them That's a very good point: if trans people are being screened more closely for mental health, they might have a higher rate of identified/diagnosed autism spectrum simply because they're being evaluated more.
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Sep 4, 2022 10:55
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and not a single tear was shed: https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1566613484867141632 though it's slightly funny + sad that other kiwifarmers have to clarify which victim (drachenlord or keffals) is being referred to
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Sep 5, 2022 08:02
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Miss Broccoli posted:the gently caress You might be right with the over-scrutinization theory, but I think it has the same issue for me that theorizing that the quality of being autistic just makes it more likely to come out. I actually think the latter statement is probably likely, but it relies on a counterfactual. We can infer there definitely are both unknown autistic people in the world and unknown trans people, but we don't know how many. I guess for me, especially in education it's irrelevant. Our primary duty is to the folks we have, and making it a kinder world for others to come out in. We know that there are people dealing with the burdens of layers of masks to hide their autism and queerness. And I think we have to work to de-stigmatize both. Just like the current moral panic over gender nonconforming AFAB, I think we often see other elements of social biases and discrimination melt into transphobia. AFAB people have fragile girl brains--although strictly speaking, some studies suggest they literally don't--and are being tricked into being trans. We are definitely seeing ablism creep in to muddy the waters over the validity of trans identities. I've been pissed about the sort of universal hand-wringing about trans kids also being autistic because it ignorantly denotes some level of lack of ability to recognize who you are.
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Sep 5, 2022 13:57
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I'm not really knowledgeable about the research, but I kind of wonder if the autism/transgender relationship is going to go the way of the autism/biological sex relationship - being just an artifact of culture and gendered socialization and treatment.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:22
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I think it makes sense that people who are, for lack of better phrase, forced to think consciously about how they fit into society, might also think more about gender identity and how it relates to that.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:45
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Would be consistent with greater visibility of queer identities meaning more people identify with them. Easier or more prone to think about things > more likely to find useful ideas in there that apply to you.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:48
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PT6A posted:I think it makes sense that people who are, for lack of better phrase, forced to think consciously about how they fit into society, might also think more about gender identity and how it relates to that. Yeah theres a bunch of different factors like this. Its incredibly unlikely theres a causal factor between autism and transness beyond something like "being autistic makes you feel less strongly about allistic gender roles". Its really silly and will get used to harm both communities; I'm saying this as an allistic trans woman who was on the receiving end of a tonne of autism related ableism.
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Sep 6, 2022 02:13
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Do we know how the both line up with birth order/other epigenetic theories?
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Sep 6, 2022 23:25
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You may have heard of Kayla Lemieux. The story went viral, particularly among anti-trans people who profit off of how gross it is. https://twitter.com/hippojuicefilm/status/1570173548571893761 The school board made a statement implying they don't have a problem with it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/oakville-teacher-viral-reports-trafalgar-high-school-1.6588711 quote:The HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code What strikes me about it is that this decision is actually insulting to trans people. It's acting as though this is just a normal thing trans people do and therefore must be protected by anti-discrimination policies. If a cis woman came to school wearing giant fake tits with the nipples visible, any school board would be on that poo poo in one second, as they should. I'm guessing the school board has zero actual understanding of trans issues and their implementation of the policy is just clumsily trying not to get yelled at.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:52
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Dog King posted:What strikes me about it is that this decision is actually insulting to trans people. It's acting as though this is just a normal thing trans people do and therefore must be protected by anti-discrimination policies. If a cis woman came to school wearing giant fake tits with the nipples visible, any school board would be on that poo poo in one second, as they should. I'm guessing the school board has zero actual understanding of trans issues and their implementation of the policy is just clumsily trying not to get yelled at. Exactly. The right way to handle it is exactly like they'd handle a cis woman doing the same thing. Should be a non-story.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:26
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Dog King posted:You may have heard of Kayla Lemieux. The story went viral, particularly among anti-trans people who profit off of how gross it is. I'm not sure how to feel about this honestly because on the one hand yeah it's ridiculous. Don't turn up at a school wearing giant fake tits, you freak, stop making us look weird. But on the other hand: absolutely hilarious thing to do. Very conflicting
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Sep 21, 2022 01:58
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I keep imagining Norm MacDonald as Burt Reynolds wearing the same tits and getting a solid minute of laughter and applause from the audience before he can even say anything.
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Sep 21, 2022 02:23
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