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Verviticus posted:a discussion i had with an ex a while back was that she was not totally settled on her gender identity at the time. she identified and still identifies as female, but has at different points in her life felt different or unsure. at one point she asked me if she decided that she was trans and identified as a man whether or not i would still date or or be attracted to her. it was a hard question but at the time i felt like the answer was yes. Ultimately, it means whatever you want it to mean for your identity. With my partner, the stuff I thought would turn me off about him transitioning turned out to not be a big deal. I turned out to be just as excited for the changes as he was. I'm in love with the person and not the gender of the body. Writing that out, I guess that's kind of a pan thing to say. So, I'd say I have a pan outlook in that I just have people that I like, but the people I like happen to mostly be girls.
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Apr 12, 2022 02:14
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I don't think there's some minimum legitimacy threshold that needs to be met before people can use a label to understand themselves. We can just have a whole bunch of micro labels and nothing bad will happen. It will just allow some people to categorize themselves with specificity if they want.
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Apr 18, 2022 17:09
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I think there's some conflation in this thread between having a marginalized identity and being a part of a movement. You can be bi without ever having dated a man, and without ever having come out. You don't need to belong to a particular subculture or community. If you like girls and guys, that's enough to call yourself bi. That is, if you want. Some guys are more comfortable understand themselves as "heteroflexible" or similar. The thing about identity is it's something you adopt for yourself. These words are just tools for self understanding and you can wield them however you like. If it's not useful to you to think of yourself as bi, then you don't have to. You can try it out and see if it fits for you to think of yourself as bi. Then, separately, there's whether you call yourself bi. Maybe it makes more sense to call yourself "straight (but also I like dudes sometimes)" if you think that more accurately conveys your situation. But, if you want men to respond to your dating profile, "straight dude but looking for guys to date" is a red flag, while "bisexual/bicurious dude" would probably paint a better picture.
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Apr 22, 2022 02:36
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Craptacular! posted:I consider myself gay and was supportive of the 2000s LGBT movement, but the whole "destroy the gender binary" aspect that has emerged in the 2010s hasn't really clicked with me. I admit up til now I have been, in my own head but not in public, one of those folks who thinks that because almost nobody saw these labels being used offline for the past thirty years before insular queer Tumblr communities, that they must have been incubated by online sociologists in those communities and have no scientific backing to them, and have been skeptical of it's validity because I didn't want to let touchy-feely Tumblrites define what truth is to me. Identity is a personal truth. You don't need scientist to tell you how someone would like to be treated. A scientist can tell you that people whose identities are respected are much happier than people whose identities are not. I'm binary trans, and I know quite a few nonbinary people, and while I can't relate directly, the way they talk about their feelings and experience of dysphoria is very close to how I talk about those same things. The only difference is what the end goal is. For me, there's a possibility that I could fit into some preconstructed space in society and blend in. For a nonbinary person, the only way they can have a space is to make one. And, there's one developing, where someone can be a "they/them" third gender, which works for some people, but not all. The only way everyone can do gender in a way that fits them is if we get rid of having predefined "valid" gender slots and just accept everyone as they come.
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Apr 26, 2022 02:33
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Two Spirit is not a specific identity, but an umbrella term for minority genders in native american cultures, which each may have their own names. It exists to replace the slur that was previously used. I think once you get into talking about specific cultural practices or understandings of gender, you should probably dial in what you're talking about and not paint with such a broad brush.
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Apr 26, 2022 03:54
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Fritz the Horse posted:Forums poster HEY GUNS studies the Thirty Year's War and is fond of the stories of men assigned female at birth but who lived and fought as male soldiers. Which I mention because apparently the construction of gender in Europe in that time was there was actually only one gender and that was male. Women were merely imperfect/unfinished men! In history, it's often hard to distinguish between "trans man" and "woman who disguises as a man to fight in the war." I think there's good reason for caution in ascribing these things. But also, if a guy lives as a man his whole life, even into retirement or after getting outed, you have to think there's something more to it than just getting a job. Historians seem to have such a high standard for thinking someone is probably trans,and it's super frustrating. Also, since you bring up classical notions of gender, Galen believed that a vagina was an inverted penis. Which was wrong at the time, but now, for some people, it's right.
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Apr 26, 2022 04:35
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Kalit posted:Okay, so stupid question and forgive my ignorance, but can’t sexual orientation be based upon sex? Or are you saying it can be based upon sex or gender? Sex and gender are not wholly distinct classifications. Like, whether someone looks like female to you is not just based on the shape of their body, but also their hairstyle and what they're wearing. A straight man is someone who is attracted to people they perceive as female. Like, I don't know any straight guys who are attracted to trans men. Because if they look at someone and see a man, they won't be attracted, because they're straight. And that doesn't change if they learn that this man has or has once had a vagina.
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Apr 26, 2022 04:46
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The argument by transphobes is that since the study shows that transitioned trans people have higher suicide rates than the general population, people shouldn't "become trans." Or, rather, that's if you press them on it. They start by just lying about what the study says.
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Apr 27, 2022 20:16
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What's weird is that there are studies that show mixed results for srs outcomes (that are smaller or methodologically flawed). But for some reason they keep using this study that shows clear benefit.
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Apr 28, 2022 00:31
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Big cities are probably better havens. You have a larger community in an absolute sense, but what makes something top the list for proportion, it seems, is being a smaller city in a more rural area. Eg, Newfoundland is very rural, with St John's being the major city (and also the only place in the province one can consistently get gender affirming care), so there's a huge trans population that has fled to the city. Then Halifax is like that, except it also draws people from surrounding provinces, which also would explain why Nova Scotia has such a large proportion of trans people. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 15:53
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There is no gender essence in the body. They define these specific things to be that essence to exclude trans people, and then also carve out exceptions for cis people who don't have those things. If we get reproductive organ transplants, then that will get dropped from their definition. This becomes very obvious when you get confronted by misinformed transphobes. They might say something like "a woman has real breasts that can make milk." And when confronted with the fact that trans women have breasts just as real as theirs that developed in the same way, it does not make them think trans women are really women. It makes them change their definition of what a "real" woman is. Whether you have XX or XY chromosomes doesn't make difference after birth. They define whether the body develops testes or ovaries, and all of the other code for sex differentiation is activated by estrogen and androgen exposure and exists in other parts of the genome. Hormone therapy is a very simple thing. It just unlocks natural processes that already exists in your body. Almost every external indicator of gender is controlled by post natal hormone exposure. The issues come with dealing with the lingering aftereffects of going through the wrong puberty. If trans people could get hormone therapy at the onset of puberty, they would develop identically to their cis peers. Though, even for adults, a lot more of the shape of your face and body comes from soft tissue than you would think. And that does slowly change on hormone therapy. e: quote:I'd probably be trans if the technology was better I don't mean to push anything on you, but I have thought the exact same thing years ago when I knew less about how it worked. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 29, 2022 |
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Apr 29, 2022 20:14
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In terms of myself, I would say that I was always trans, rather than at some point I became trans. Like, if I was only trans at the point where I could say "I am a woman" and believe it, I wasn't trans until like 4 months after I started hormone therapy. Until then, the way I understood myself was always "I am a man who wants to be a woman." And, that was a gradual shift in my own self understanding that is still ongoing (I still think sometimes that I could just be a man who really really likes the effects of estrogen on my body and being regarded as female). For me, the thing that makes me trans and a woman is that desire/need to be a woman. In that sense I was always a trans woman even when I didn't think of myself as one. And, this is kind of an abstract intellectual thing. It just makes it easier to understand myself under that framework. After I started hormones, it felt so right and natural and familiar and relaxing. It didn't really make sense why I would feel this way as a man who wants to be a woman. It makes more sense that it feels correct because it is, and since I wanted to get here for most of my life, that desire must have also come from the same sort of deep down "woman-being" that was always there but only recently recognized.
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Apr 29, 2022 21:53
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PT6A posted:From what mainstream coverage I've seen of non-binary people, I'd also say that a lot of the mainstream perception, for lack of a better word, is driven by some pretty over-the-top people who say things like "I am too big and all-encompassing to be constrained by notions of gender, I am all things at once!" and it's like, well, cool, no self-esteem problems there, for sure! But I doubt that's how the average non-binary person understands their own identity and life, and mostly I'm guessing they aren't super vocal about it because it's still not hugely accepted in general. Depending on how they choose to present, and what pronouns they prefer to use, you might not even know a non-binary person is non-binary unless they choose to bring it up, Being in trans spaces where people talk about identity, a lot of people just tell people they are a boy or a girl because that's easiest, and it's close enough for them most of the time. Especially if you're afab and you tell people you're nb, they're just going to classify you as a girl unless you're super far into testosterone. Some people project an identifiable "enby" aesthetic, but they are in the minority. There's a joke about saving the good genders for when you have trans company. You don't waste that stuff on any old guest. And, also, yeah, there's just people who don't see themselves as any gender, but also don't mind being assumed to be any particular gender. They don't get anything by coming out as nb, but it is useful for them to understand that other people might have a different relationship to gender. Also, from the outside, it's hard to distinguish that from, like, normal cis ignorance of "I don't have a gender identity (because it fits so well I don't even notice it)." Because they both have the same "I don't get trans people, why do you care about gender so much?" questions.
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Apr 30, 2022 00:29
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smug n stuff posted:Not to turn the LGBTQIA+ thread into cis man therapy space, but I, a cis man, feel similar. I suspect that much of the difficulty male transphobes have with the idea of gender identity comes from the fact that many, like me, don't actively think about their gender much, because maleness is default. One question that I've heard is "If I offered you a million dollars to take cross sex hormone therapy for the rest of your life, would you?" Also, not directed at you, but I think a lot of cis men try to understand the trans experience via looking at trans women, but they would probably have a much easier time looking at trans men.
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Apr 30, 2022 01:06
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At least my local trans support group is very open to people who just want to talk about gender and figure things out. It's not like an exclusive club, it's just a place for people to who want to talk about gender stuff, with a huge variety of experiences represented. The rules are designed specifically to discourage "are you really trans enough?" gatekeeping. If you earnestly think you belong there or benefit from being there and aren't being a poo poo to others, nobody has a problem with it. And, I wouldn't have any problem with a non transitioning trans person in trans spaces.
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May 2, 2022 10:56
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He's pro conversion therapy and super enbyphobic and transmedicalist. Just an all around poo poo head.
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May 2, 2022 20:13
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I don't personally think that everyone with dysphoria would benefit from transition. Usually it would be because of extreme social consequences, but also people have different degrees and experiences of dysphoria that might just make the tradeoff not worth it. This sort of person would still benefit greatly from a gender therapist. The point of gender therapy isn't to get you to transition, it's to help you work through gender issues. They can help people cope with their situations. For me, my experience with gender therapy was that I needed support getting through my transition and managing dysphoria. The further along I got, the less I needed it as my dysphoria was alleviated. If transition wasn't available to me, I'd probably benefit from therapy to manage my dysphoria even more.
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May 6, 2022 15:57
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This is the first time such a law has actually made it into effect. This is going to be as bad as the Bell v Tavistock injunction was. Hopefully it doesn't last as long. The longer it remains in effect, the worse the effects will be on this kids who have been forcibly taken off their medicine.
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May 10, 2022 13:46
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The power of those bigoted concern trolls is they can make themselves seem reasonable to the ignorant. "I think trans people have a right to exist in normal society but I'm also hearing lots of stuff about an epidemic of child mutilation and that sounds bad." is a thing that can be said by both a bigot and a genuinely ignorant person. But, it's usually extremely easy to tell which is which if you start trying to explain things. The bigot will argue along whatever lines they can use to advance an anti-trans position, both showing that it was really about transphobia and not concern for the health of children, and also tipping their hand that they know more than they said they did at the outset. e: and, more specifically, this kind of jerk will keep "just asking questions" long after the questions have been answered. And, they will call anyone who calls out what effect they're having a crazy TRA. I remeber when the announcent was made to weaponize CPS in Texas, and Jesse Singal posted a wall of screenshotted "threats" and it was mostly people saying "these policies are the result of your fear mongering." Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 16:03 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 15:57
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He/They means both are fine. Some people might also prefer if you mix it up, but that's not necessarily implied by just listing multiple pronouns.
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May 14, 2022 07:22
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OwlFancier posted:Oh sure I know jealousy and infidelity are issues everyone can have, it's just specifically the idea that if you're bisexual you can never really be happy without access to all possible sets of genitalia that is a strange thing to leap to. As if the mechanism of the sex you have is the defining feature of your being. It's not so much the mechanics of transitioning, but framing transness as being entirely about sex. Also, blaming trans people for the existence of gender stereotypes. There's two reasons people transition according to conservatives: 1. Being so gay that you transition so you can have sex with straight people. 2. Liking dresses or suits, and then getting hormones and surgery so you can be the gender that is allowed to wear them. At least, those are the assumptions baked into the strange questions that get directed at me. In terms of mechanics of transitioning, their conception of it is that you get "the surgery" (bottom surgery) and that's the beginning and end of it. And they really have trouble understanding that many trans people don't want or need it. They seem actively uninterested in knowing what the actual mechanics of someone's transition might be. I think maybe learning that would damage their notion of gender as essential and unchangeable, rather than a combination of a bunch of factors, most of which are easily changed. Of course, that ignorance goes out the window when they want to talk about the effects of hormones as a danger to our young children who are getting transed. But, then the ignorance immediately re-emerges when they say there's no harm in trans people waiting until adulthood before starting to transition. It's quite a magical bit of whiplash to witness.
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May 14, 2022 16:15
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath on the Courts helping us out here. You are, very fortunately, wrong, in this case. https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1525340012786630656 Don't understand why this couldn't have happened a week ago or earlier, but alas. And, there's no injunction against the forced outing by school teachers. So, it's still a horrible reality.
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May 14, 2022 18:53
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:That was pleasantly surprising, yes, but, ultimately, the Courts will not save us. That much should be clear. I wouldn't even be willing to bet this decision survives very long. The injunction buys time. The courts are very slow and it will be a long time before the appeals process is done. The arkansas case is still tied up in courts and is nowhere near done. Even if the supreme court upholds the law, getting that injunctive relief will have bought us years. It's not "problem solved" but it means the present crisis is deferred. It's a big difference, right now, for those kids on the ground. It means we can focus on beating the law and not raising money to get families out of Alabama.
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May 15, 2022 02:57
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Timeless Appeal posted:--Mocks the ACLU for listing LGBTQIA+ people as being listed as being disproportionately affected by the Supreme Court's potential ruling against Roe, implying that this isn't about queer people. As a trans parents with a pansexual wife, bullshit. Definitely. At least for me, if the local abortion clinic shut down, I wouldn't have access to my hormones. And I've seen it happen in other places. There's often only one doctor in town who's willing to do either, and without being able to provide abortions, trans people just aren't a big enough patient base to keep the clinic running. In the US, I'd have to imagine this would lead directly to closings of planned parenthood locations, which would have a huge impact on a large number of trans people plus all the queer people who need reproductive healthcare and safe sex resources. And, beyond the triggered abortion bans, Roe is about the extent of medical privacy, and that will lead to more erosion of access to medical care for queer people.
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May 23, 2022 02:18
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oh god oh gently caress posted:TERF at this point has morphed into "anti trans but nominally left wing/liberal/centrist". I wouldn't say it applies to Peterson or Shapiro but Maher is a guy who portrays himself as seeing through conservative bullshit. His fans are offline boomers. My dad loves him. Also, like, what conservative bullshit does he see through when all of his positions are conservative? His thing is mostly just saying poo poo like "Hey, I'm a liberal, and even I can see that arabs are less deserving of life than white people."
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May 23, 2022 12:07
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Angepain posted:it's a murky distinction nowadays as many transphobes will use TERF arguments and talking points because they're useful and they make it sound like they care about women, regardless of if they actually know the first thing about radical feminism of any variety Even the modern "GC" movement doesn't really care about radical feminism. They only do transphobia. I guess the difference is that they believe that their transphobia is feminism, but they don't really engage with any feminist issues except to wield them against trans people. And, transphobia overrides any other feminist issues. The gnc cis women they harass in bathrooms are seen as acceptable casualties in the pursuit of harassing trans people.
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May 23, 2022 13:59
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Guavanaut posted:You could go as broad as "a featherless biped" and they'd say "aha! What about a one legged woman wearing a native headdress?" because they're not interested in actual discussion. Actually Diogenes was right. Plato was a chump and poking holes in strict definitions is gender praxis. "A man is a fatherless biped" makes about as much sense as "A woman is when uterus."
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Jun 4, 2022 11:52
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Yeah. Decentralizing care is good. More clinics is good. It's still not ideal, but if it means lower wait times and not having to travel as far, it's a step in the right direction.
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Jul 30, 2022 02:52
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Do the terfs earnestly believe that they're taking kids who violate gender norms and forcibly injecting them with hormones? Or are all the ones claiming "I would have been transed" just lying?
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Aug 16, 2022 18:37
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How does she reconcile that force transing pipeline with the part of British trans health care where you have to beg a doctor for a year straight before you get any treatment, and that's after spending years on a waitlist?
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Aug 16, 2022 18:58
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PT6A posted:I think the root of it is just a desire to harass people they don't like, because they've essentially created a system reminiscent of witch trials, where there's no possible right way to be after you're "suspected." Either you're not feminine enough, in which case you might be trans (or, you know, just a woman who doesn't wish to present as particularly feminine, or who is tall, or muscular), or you are feminine in which case you're suspect because perhaps you're just acting that way to throw everyone off. It's a weird thing. Transphobes know how bad dysphoria is. The idea of a cis person being forced to take cross sex hormone therapy is seen as an unspeakable horror, causing permanent damage. But, when it's trans people, it's suddenly not so bad to wait until you're 18 before getting the right hormones, and the lasting effects from going through the wrong puberty literally do not matter in the slightest. OwlFancier posted:It is unlikely they care about actual lesbians (or people they identify as lesbians) in the same way that pro life people don't care about the children they force into existence or the people who give birth to them. Trans people are way more gay, proportionally, than cis people. Letting people transition increases the number of lesbians.
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Aug 17, 2022 10:17
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Guavanaut posted:That's why they're forced to pretend that trans people aren't real. It always seemed to be couched in language that there are "legitimate" trans people, but it's fine for them to wait until adulthood. They don't make the argument that more cis people are being tortured by being forcibly transed than trans people by being forcibly cised. They think that if no transition is happening, nobody is being tortured.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:22
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There's a few otherwise normal people who tend to parrot transphobic talking when something comes across their tl. And I suspect that's a somewhat common liberal opinion, of like "I support trans people, but people say hormones are dangerous and I think maybe they should try conversion therapy first." Because that's the opinion that gets presented as the reasonable middle ground in articles. If you just read major news sources, you'd think there was an epidemic of transition regret.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:57
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It's a really weird convoluted system to let the provider know you want something by having you go to several mental health professionals, tell them you want it, and then they write letters saying you want it. This serves the same function as an extremely routine part of any other medical procedure, where the doctor verifies that you are lucid and capable of consent. It should take a couple seconds. e: And, these additional procedures have no measurable impact on regret rates, which, as it happens, are extraordinarily low. If this process did help with regret rates, they would be better off employing it with hip replacements or chemotherapy or lasik, which have higher regret rates. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 21:38
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I think it's mostly starting from the assumption that trans people aren't real in some way. Either their needs matter less than those of cis kids, or that transness is more of an impermanent aesthetic whim. Because people recognize how destructive giving a young boy estrogen or a young girl testosterone is. It's built into the fear mongering about trans people. They just don't believe or don't care that trans people can also suffer from this.
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Oct 18, 2022 17:47
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