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Genuine question: are we actually treating sapiosexuality as an actual orientation now...?
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Apr 14, 2022 09:45
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Twelve by Pies posted:I can understand someone wanting an easy way to say "Look, just seeing a person and wanting to bang them right away isn't something that happens with me." So I've kind of come around on it, a little bit, anyway. I mean, isn't this true of basically everyone? Demisexual definitely comes across as one of those "applies to everyone, but I'm special so I need a different label for it". It's extremely reminiscent of "queerplatonic" which turned out to just mean "being friends".
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Apr 14, 2022 22:45
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OwlFancier posted:I personally find the argument for the various conditional attractions etc to be similar to the one for aces, which is that they may still find themselves on the lovely end of social norms that have historically been dominated by the same people who make life lovely for lgbtq people. Hm. Not sure about this at all. No one is ever going to experience societal oppression for being sapiosexual. No US state is passing laws against mixed-IQ marriage. No one is getting yelled at and beaten on the street for being a smart-fucker. No one is refusing to date anyone who likes the big bang theory. This just doesn't line up Pladdicus posted:I don't think sapiosexual means attraction purely to intelligence but the suggest you are broadly potentially attracted to emotionally mature individuals who possess intelligence ie everything but animals and children are fair game. Seems like someone who meant that would just use pan? I know technicalities are fun but usage determines meaning and in the wild I've literally only seen "sapiosexual" used to mean "hetero, but condescending and snobbish about it"
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Apr 14, 2022 22:55
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Twelve by Pies posted:I would say the fact that porn, where you do not know the actors on a personal level and are just there to see naked people, is very popular would indicate "no, this is not true of basically everyone." Unless the entire porn industry is just a handful of people watching videos thousands of times a day to inflate numbers. You think people approach watching porn and basic social interaction with strangers in the same way and with the same goals...? Hate to say it but you need to get some better friends
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Apr 14, 2022 22:58
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OwlFancier posted:But the entire reason LGBTQIA is a thing is because we want a world where that doesn't happen. Our identities cannot be defined forever by suffering, it may be suffering that brought most of us together but as advances are made then necessarily this is going to also be less true for more and more LGBTQIA people, and that's a good thing. It is going to be necessary at some point for our political freedoms to be maintained by people who have never suffered their absence, so to me it is far more important that somebody believes in liberation than whether they personally suffer for the lack of it. The latter is only a route to the former, and it isn't a route for everybody who experiences it either. Asexuals and bisexuals have absolutely suffered societal oppression though? Maybe not you personally, but other bi and ace people certainly have and their suffering needs to be recognized and acted against. Demi and sapio sexuals have never experienced a single moment of oppression on account of their sexuality ever, and folding a bunch of preferences masked as orientation under the LGBT umbrella dilutes our fairly simple demands for equality and recognition by applying them to a bunch of people who have no need of it as well as, quite frankly, making us look like a bunch of whiners.
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Apr 14, 2022 23:12
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Bel Shazar posted:The thing is, you don't get to dictate how someone defines themself. You can claim some disconnect between what they say and how they present, though I can't currently imagine a scenario where that isn't rude as hell, but their identity is a fact you just have to acknowledge. I'm not trying to "dictate how someone defines themself"!!! I'm not saying nobody can call themselves sapiosexual, that's fine, I don't give a poo poo! My point is they're not LGBT and making them part of the movement is counter-productive because they have no actual, material demands for recognition or equality so they're just along for the ride and history has shown people with no personal stake to be unreliable at best allies! This is not about gatekeeping! Stop rephrasing my point to be about saying people can't call themselves whatever, it's really annoying!
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Apr 14, 2022 23:18
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e: never mind, this is not actually a fight worth having. This thread is about a lot off stuff and I don't want to turn myself into the main character and poo poo it up Owlfancier you make some good points and I'll respond when I've got a minute some plague rats fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Apr 14, 2022 |
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Apr 14, 2022 23:20
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Bel Shazar posted:Deepest apologies, I read your prior posts quite differently. all good. I was not as clear as I could have been, I get pretty worked up about this issue for obvious reasons.
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Apr 14, 2022 23:30
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I think the problem here is that you're making a lot of great sweeping generalizations and assumptions about what leftism involves. Some guy on discord is not the left. Dipshits on twitter not the left. Bill Mahr, god help us, is a right-winger. To me, the left is defined by a set of principles intended to make the world a better place and working towards them. Labour organizing, housing activism, LGBT rights activism, actually going outside and doing poo poo, that's leftism. Bitching on the internet about how trans rights are a distraction or pride month is just another way to rainbow-wash capital? Who gives a poo poo. It's a distraction at best. It's true we need a big tent movement, because otherwise we get atomized and crushed individually. And yeah not everyone you bring into the movement is going to have a full set of progressive beliefs, because we all live in a society and you have to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be, or you'll get nowhere. But it's like you said, most people's exposure to LGBT people is rich white gays on TV, and once, for example, they join the union and meet non-rich non-white gay etc people and see them as regular people going through the same poo poo as they are it brings home that we're not a different species or anything. That's how you start to shift people out of their harmful beliefs. If they keep saying and doing racist or homophobic poo poo to the point it's pushing people out of the org that's an organizational failure, not an existential one. Sometimes you just got to bang some heads together, metaphorically speaking
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Apr 15, 2022 23:55
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Miss Broccoli posted:This does make a lot of sense. Its worth pointing out that there's a very big difference between Rowling and someone who just doesn't know anything but grew up watchng Ace Ventura, and whatever other examples are out there for other marginalised groups. Yeah exactly. It's an important distinction, and one that's worth remembering. I work a unionized job, and if everyone who ever said something transphobic got booted from said union would be no one there, not even me. But when we're there and I'm acting as just another voice and another vote same as them it quietly reinforces to a lot of those people that they have a lot more in common with me than with the people trying to screw us out of our benefits. It feels like a lot of the "oh but a big tent means includes people who hate me, personally, it's dangerous to include people who aren't already allies" discourse is driven by people who, not to put too fine a point on it, spend way too much time online and not enough actually interacting with the people they're theorycrafting about. If all the organizing you do is posting on twitter, of course you'd think the worst, because nobody on there is normal. It's where psychos go to say poo poo that would get them locked up in the outside world. Once you step out of the pressure cooker and actually deal with the people you need onside, it turns out that being transphobic etc is way less of a priority than paying their bills and feeding their kids and if they see you helping them do that then some of those unexamined assumptions start to crack I mean at the baseline people who actively, violently bigoted aren't going to be getting involved in left causes- your local proud boy contingent probably aren't showing up at the eviction resistance protest, for example. But if they do? Get them outta there because they're loving up to something
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Apr 16, 2022 03:58
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Miss Broccoli posted:I'm trans myself and knew my entire life. Mere months before I came out I got probed on these here forums for making a helicopter joke. Entirely out of self hatred and jealousy that non binary people get to do fucken wilddddd things with gender and i couldnt be a boring ol' plain woman. god yeah I said some absolutely awful poo poo when I was first coming to terms with it as well, incredible how bad self-loathing can gently caress up your sense of basic human decency isn't it
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Apr 16, 2022 04:10
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PT6A posted:I can see what you're going for here, but... I'd take a time out and just consider what you were thinking when you chose to express this thought in this particular way, because... yikes. Not to be lovely, but can we avoid doing the "wow yikes fam this ain't it chief" twitter thing and just be straight up with each other about what we find objectionable?
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Apr 19, 2022 02:56
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Bel Shazar posted:You didn't see the intricate interpretive dance that went along with the words. It was beautiful. I cried
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Apr 25, 2022 19:45
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Craptacular! posted:I'm not a transwoman, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they're expected to work even harder than the people around them like many ciswomen are. They can expect all they want but I had time to internalize male laziness so joke's on them! (trans woman and cis woman are two words btw)
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Apr 26, 2022 07:18
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Hawkperson posted:Most people who feel this way say something like “I am comfortable with any pronouns.” On a personal note, this drives me up the wall. It's like, just give me a solid answer because if you don't then next time I need to address you all I'll remember is that I asked you but now I have no idea what pronouns you use and I must have forgotten, like an rear end in a top hat! This is absolutely a me problem!
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May 5, 2022 07:33
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Twelve by Pies posted:To add to this, I don't know how prevalent the idea is anymore but I do know that there was a time when bisexuals who married someone of the opposite gender were accused of being straight people trying to gain LGBTQ+ cred or whatever. Especially before same-sex marriage was legalized federally, it was kind of an annoyed "How can you claim you're part of the same oppressed group as us when you've already married the person you love?" sentiment. I mean, have you never heard a bisexual in a het marriage complain about how they're actually exactly extremely oppressed because people refuse to acknowledge their status as a persecuted minority and felt a terrible urge to kick them out of the LGBT movement?? (I'm taking the piss please no one get mad)
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May 14, 2022 10:36
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The pinkwashing crap is obviously unbelievably cynical and not to be rude or anything but if you think for a second the corporate world wouldn't scrap it all and start celebrating Bash That loving Queer Month if there was a single dollar more in it for them you're being taken for a ride. It's acceptable because the LGBTQ community is largely harmless to the greater cause of capital, people talk a big game but the second we evolve beyond naming a Twitter account Trans Flags for Killing Cops and saying stupid crap like "our existence is an act of resistance" and start doing anything that might actually threaten capital all the rainbow flags at the Raytheon HQ will vanish like mist in the midday sun and it'll be back to HR-mandated DADT I'll be honest, seeing corporations as "insurance" has just the most unbelievable "How do you do, fellow leftists" vibe to it. That's just a baffling and entirely ahistorical stance to take, and if anyone who wasn't a cis white guy was to say it I would suggest they need their head examined?? some plague rats fucked around with this message at 05:04 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 24, 2022 05:00
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Timeless Appeal posted:If capital is the main driving force in our society, and in that society queer people are faced with an adversarial economy, then how is our fight for equity not a challenge for capital? I think the answer to this is pretty simple: because we're losing. Badly. Queer people provide no meaningful challenge to capital because those of us with any actual tendancy towards radicalism are struggling to survive. We're not out there throwing bricks at cops, we're keeping our heads down to try and avoid losing our jobs while, for example, the US takes away what little healthcare protection was offered and increasingly makes being trans illegal. Queer people today are a challenge to capital in the same way that me getting in the ring with Mike Tyson would technically be a challenge to him. (I know he's retired but I use Tyson for my example because he clearly has no qualms about hitting a woman)
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May 24, 2022 19:52
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Jaxyon posted:Crosspost form USPOL but right wingers/bigots have used the Texas school shooting to further target transgender women and specifically are using someone from reddit. Okay cool thanks for letting us know
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May 25, 2022 22:36
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Timeless Appeal posted:To clarify, the rumor spread pretty thoroughly and was repeated by a US Congressman. And we should be absolutely afraid in our community of this sort of stuff. The same thing happened with the Wi Spa fiasco last year that an unrelated trans-woman was being targeted and dragged into it. Yeah that shits insane but it was covered in USCE, which seems like a good place to just drop a link and dip out like that. this thread was having some interesting longer-form discussions and at least personally I could do with an an LGBTQ thread somewhere on the forum that isn't just an RSS feed of lovely things that happened to a trans person today
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May 26, 2022 03:12
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Jaxyon posted:Fair enough, I won't do that here any further. I didn't mean don't post stuff, just like it would be better if there's some discussion to be had or something worth going over that isn't just "wow, right wing politicians and 4chan incels are terrible" which everyone here is 100% aware of and probably doesn't need reminding about. I'm not Thread Boss though, this is just my personal take, other people might chime in that they like the "thing happen" posts
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May 26, 2022 06:58
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Craptacular! posted:I don't know if it's exclusively a gay dude or even a queer thing, Mercy started being picked by people as a submissive fantasy kink years ago, since the character's kit encourages being a selfless follower of someone with better stats than you. This was a really small amount of players, largely revolving around a subreddit that predates that game called 'healsluts'; but then Kotaku published an article about both the activity and the reddit board, and that exposure mainstreamed the idea to the majority of players. I hate every single word of this. Thank you.
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Jun 2, 2022 05:57
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/sigridellis/status/1532340701026983937?t=nJMbZfRQ3hZ10AAgN_Mirg&s=19 "That means something." Yeah it means they think there's some money to be made and some free good publicity on offer from dipshits like this! loving calling yourself an "elder queer" like that means anything, you've just been a loving rube for a longer time! This poo poo drives me completely up the wall
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Jun 3, 2022 21:36
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Craptacular! posted:That's the spirit. I bought pride month Oreos because I just wanted some drat Oreos at the time. (I also wouldn't bother paying more for them than a typical bag of Oreos, since they didn't even rainbow up the frosting, just replaced the name on the biscuit with 'PROUD'.) They at best get some manner of support for daring to not bow to the reactionaries; I get a thing I was going to buy anyway with the mild satisfaction that I am representing myself in a way I very rarely ever do because I'm not an activist, never been to Pride, and I'm introverted anyhow. I guess that's what I like about it: I'm a very passive sort of gay since I'm not out to most strangers I meet, and most people I'm out to remark that they never would have guessed. While it will upset certain types of quasi-Marxists, to a lot of people consumption is act of self-identity. This is why young people today will still have arguments about the big two video game consoles even though more games are released on both consoles than when I was their age. Of course while Nabisco were promoting the rainbow Oreos they were crushing union drives and forcing 12 hour days and unpaid weekend overtime on the people who make them so you're absolutely getting played for a rube there
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Jun 4, 2022 01:03
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forbidden dialectics posted:I'm not remotely in the headspace to watch it; You can absolutely just not. I can't imagine why you would think you need to? forbidden dialectics posted:That said, frankly, I'd probably struggle to come up with an answer to the titular question on the spot as well. After some thought, the most concise answer I could come up with was "an adult human who chooses to present with culturally-accepted feminine traits". While I doubt whether this would convince anyone who didn't already understand gender, I'm wondering what a better answer would be? Let's be real: if someone is trying to put you on the spot and asking that question to do so then the only correct answer is "I know what you're trying to do and it won't work on me, go gently caress yourself." No one without a terrible preexisting agenda is ever going to ask you what a woman is, it's a trap question every time it's deployed and the only rational response is to just never engage on their terms
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Jun 4, 2022 02:50
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forbidden dialectics posted:I don't, it's just the most common first response the gormless freaks who consume this kind of media (e.g., my parents) generally ask: "well, did you even watch it?" Just lie and say you did and it was hideously unconvincing, you already know what he's going to say it's not like there's a quiz at the end. Or just go on the offensive and say your won't watch it until they watch, I don't know, Nanette. They won't learn anything but at least they'll be miserable
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Jun 4, 2022 04:05
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El Fideo posted:I mean, that's sort of the exact issue that they think they're capitalizing on, isn't it? The person who gave birth to me, for instance, no longer identifies as a woman, and there are trans men capable of giving birth right now in the world, so the presumption is faulty. Yeah there's tons of nuances to the issue but as soon as you try and play by their rules you're on a hiding to nothing. Just get em out your way, pa
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Jun 4, 2022 06:29
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Aesop Poprock posted:Ah gotcha. Like burger king's weird pride burger thing Yeah you got it. It's any kind of corporate nonsense, generally involving splashing rainbows around, that's designed to LGBTQ people and our allies feel like the companies are "on our side".
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Jun 11, 2022 06:41
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doingitwrong posted:Here is Levi's definitely understanding the essence of gender. Looking forward to Levi's releasing a non-binary line where they just send you a square of cotton and let you figure it out
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Jun 11, 2022 23:10
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Quorum posted:This Pride month, Once-ler Industries is proud to stand with the LGBTQ+ community! To celebrate, we're offering a special rainbow Thneed. And the best part is, we're donating 1% of the profits from this fabulous Thneed to the Trevor Project! aaaagh This is too real, it's causing me immense psychic damage
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Jun 12, 2022 02:35
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A big flaming stink posted:Clinton is coming out on the anti trans bandwagon because of course she is lmao I mean is anyone the slightest bit surprised by this? The venn diagram of "people who idolise Hillary Clinton" and "second wave TERFs" is a circle, she's always been a hateful monster from the second she entered politics
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Jun 19, 2022 06:34
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"Hilary is bad, I don't give a gently caress about her, but here's a breakdown on why this article is VERY UNFAIR to her." Cool, thanks guys. If there's one thing LGBTQ threads really benefit from, it's "well actually"ing about whether whatever notable piece of poo poo was technically being explicitly transphobic in this one interview. Good fun to litigate that, over and over. Maybe THIS time us trans people are just being too sensitive!! You never know!
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Jun 20, 2022 21:29
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd ask you not to speak for "us trans people" on this one. Hillary Clinton, as secretary of state, made it possible for me to change the gender marker on my passport without surgery. Fair enough, I will continue to say whatever I feel like about Hilary "trans rights are a legitimate concern for women" Clinton but will refrain from framing it as a community concern
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Jun 20, 2022 23:50
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Thanks! Even better if you stick to quotation marks only around actual quotes and not made up poo poo. I was paraphrasing the full quote, which was "There are women who'd say [to a trans woman], ‘You know what, you've never had the kind of life experiences that I've had, so I respect who you are, but don't tell me you're the same as me. I do think there is a legitimate concern about women’s lived experience and the importance of recognizing that." Yeah really loving made that one up, didn't I.
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Jun 21, 2022 00:20
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I found this one: Both quotes are featured in that second piece. I should have linked it, that was lazy of me
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Jun 21, 2022 00:59
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think calling the article clickbaity is undermining a real concern though. I don’t give a poo poo what is in Clinton’s heart and soul, but it seems like the author was really horny for her to poo poo on trans activists . I think we’re seeing an emerging trend of the media trying to do what has been done with a lot of leftist or progressive causes to trans activism. Regardless of evidence and research, positions like access to trans care for trans kids, inclusion in sports, and gender inclusionary education are being allowed to be cast as extreme positions solely because they exist on the opposite end of a governor turning child protective services into storm troopers to kidnap trans kids. And regardless of Clinton’s intent in her response, the article is definitely taking serious moderate person Hilary Clinton and using her as a prop to moderate trans positions in the name of a cultish worship of moderation and not based on actual facts, data, or lived experiences or even what trans advocates believe. This is absolutely correct and made me feel sad and tired 
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Jun 21, 2022 19:39
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I think it depends on where you land regarding intention versus effect- Clinton's efforts to destroy the global south absolutely had a disproportionate effect on LGBTQ people, because everything bad always does, but I don't believe she did it out of transphobia- she did it because she's a racist, bloodthirsty monster. The negative effect on trans people probably didn't even occur to her as a factor, and I doubt it would have changed anything, but it wasn't the goal. We're talking murder one vs manslaughter, basically. My take would be that her actions are SoS don't paint her as intentionally transphobic, just as a callous, imperialistic murderer. Which is worse, honestly, but this is D&D so the technical distinction is god. e: I do absolutely believe she's a transphobe, though. Just not because of this.
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Jun 22, 2022 02:23
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Dog King posted:You may have heard of Kayla Lemieux. The story went viral, particularly among anti-trans people who profit off of how gross it is. I'm not sure how to feel about this honestly because on the one hand yeah it's ridiculous. Don't turn up at a school wearing giant fake tits, you freak, stop making us look weird. But on the other hand: absolutely hilarious thing to do. Very conflicting
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Sep 21, 2022 01:58
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Fritz the Horse posted:Also, her being a shop teacher I feel like that's possibly a safety hazard lol Honestly my first thought when I clicked the video was "hang on, where's her safety gear"
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Sep 21, 2022 03:03
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Rappaport posted:I guess making a chain mail shirt for buxom people would be a learning experience in shop class, but surely there are better pedagogical methods than gigantic prosthetic hooters Not claiming you need a suit of plate that will accommodate those sandbags but I mean tie your hair back when you're using the drop saw for gods sake!!
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Sep 21, 2022 04:53
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