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Verviticus posted:a discussion i had with an ex a while back was that she was not totally settled on her gender identity at the time. she identified and still identifies as female, but has at different points in her life felt different or unsure. at one point she asked me if she decided that she was trans and identified as a man whether or not i would still date or or be attracted to her. it was a hard question but at the time i felt like the answer was yes. attraction does have a heavy emotional aspect, you have (had?) an emotional connection with this person and that absolutely would effect things. While they say (and I agree) that it would be bi for you, a straight man, to be attracted to another man, things do get funky with trans people sometimes. Sexuality labels are all from way before we were allowed to exist and honestly it depends on person to person. I know a trans woman who says she has been attracted to exclusively women all her life. She married her highschool sweetheart who was the one who talked through gender stuff with them, and then came out themselves 5 years later as non binary trans masc. The two of them are poly and live with a third person, a cis man. All three are more than happy for the trans woman to keep calling herself a lesbian. you will see trans people be incredibly militant that its not gay to be attracted to trans women, and this is because cis men in particular are loving awful. gay cis men are just as awful to trans men as straight men are to trans women. in reality, once you get down to the individual level, things can and do get a bit more nuance. its a similar concept to the "i wont date trans people" being transphobic. individual attraction between 2 actual human beings is a very different discussion to demographic/group level.
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Apr 14, 2022 23:42
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Sharkie posted:Holy poo poo that this thread is arguing about demisexuality or whatever like it's 2015. Self-identification is a tool and if a particular linguistic object is useful to you then use it, if it's not, drop it and let it go. And also be aware of what "useful" means: does your definition of that include rethinking harmful power structures, etc.? return to climbing up lamp posts to drop heavy bags through cops windshields like the good ol days of our lady and saviour marsha P
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Apr 15, 2022 07:50
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some plague rats posted:I think the problem here is that you're making a lot of great sweeping generalizations and assumptions about what leftism involves. Some guy on discord is not the left. Dipshits on twitter not the left. Bill Mahr, god help us, is a right-winger. To me, the left is defined by a set of principles intended to make the world a better place and working towards them. Labour organizing, housing activism, LGBT rights activism, actually going outside and doing poo poo, that's leftism. Bitching on the internet about how trans rights are a distraction or pride month is just another way to rainbow-wash capital? Who gives a poo poo. It's a distraction at best. This does make a lot of sense. Its worth pointing out that there's a very big difference between Rowling and someone who just doesn't know anything but grew up watchng Ace Ventura, and whatever other examples are out there for other marginalised groups. We don't have to tolerate queerphobia in the room, but not being able to find a common ground with inperfect but supportive cishetallo people will hurt the cause. You do catch more flies with honey.
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Apr 16, 2022 03:32
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I'm trans myself and knew my entire life. Mere months before I came out I got probed on these here forums for making a helicopter joke. Entirely out of self hatred and jealousy that non binary people get to do fucken wilddddd things with gender and i couldnt be a boring ol' plain woman. It happens
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Apr 16, 2022 04:07
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Twelve by Pies posted:I was going off what I remember someone who called themselves that explaining what it was a few years ago, so thank you for the correction. I'd agree with you that they're probably not oppressed, but I can't speak for everyone, and whether oppression exists or not if it's a label that makes them more comfortable to apply to themselves and helps other people understand them, I'm all for it. It still happens, Arcane had a man in a dress whore to show how grimy and dirty and immoral Zaun is. i turned it off when I saw that. Same show they also had to fight super super hard to have the canon gay characters use a petname
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Apr 17, 2022 03:25
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doingitwrong posted:This is us reaping what was sowed in the fight for gay marriage. I remember this explicitly being the decision to make same-sex relationships normal/acceptable and I remember a variety of queer activists, including trans activists, sounding the alarm that people who fell out of that normalized category would be further marginalized, and a couple decade later, here we are. The fact that society now sees homosexual as more normal than these other things is a testament to how effective that campaign was. I forget her name but one of the first transgender women to go on TV who was treated mostly as a curiosity advocated for exactly that. "Let me transition so I'm normal like the rest of you and not a filthy gay man" E: Iran is the force trans country Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 18, 2022 07:26
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aniviron posted:The fact that genz is 3x more likely to identify as lgbtq+ gives a little bit of hope though, maybe it's not as scary for them. I'm just barely gen z and i was bullied from grade 1 onwards despite trying my damnednest to fit it. I graduated in 2012 My brother in law is 14 faces a lot of the same poo poo I did. Its gotten better in that he can be 'he' at school but its still atrociously bad. They were still telling kids gays burned in hell when i was in grade 5. E: Sapiosexual is not a thing. its some wanky stuff. its definitely not a queer thing
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Apr 18, 2022 10:24
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Dr. Stab posted:I don't think there's some minimum legitimacy threshold that needs to be met before people can use a label to understand themselves. We can just have a whole bunch of micro labels and nothing bad will happen. It will just allow some people to categorize themselves with specificity if they want. calling yourself a sapiosexual is fine but its not queer, its not under the lgbt banner, the closest at all thing it could be under is acearo and its not that at all. You can be an allo sapiosexual. Its not lgbt+
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Apr 19, 2022 08:06
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Angepain posted:Is there a particularly widespread phenomenon of straight people calling themselves sapiosexual and then taking positions of influence in the lgbt community? I haven't really seen the term used beyond a few randoms on the internet so it seems like a bit of a distraction to me. And it's not like there's ever going to be a precise border of who's queer and who's not anyway, so unless they're significantly affecting the direction of the community in a significantly negative way I don't see much worth in spending time bothering about the occasional tiny settlement on the borderlands. its in the op
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Apr 20, 2022 02:43
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I do not beleive that allies should be a part of the acronym. cishet people are not queer by defintion. Are antiracist white people allies to marginalised ethnicities? yes. Are they apart of those marginalised ethnicities? No. Do they speak for those ethnicities? They shouldnt but they do. Same with speaking over them Same with concept cishet people and us. Encouraging allies to be a part of the movement is how you end up with Vaush.
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Apr 20, 2022 03:39
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Archer666 posted:Though I do agree with you that allies shouldn't be part of the acronym, you picked a bad example. Vaush is pansexual, so he's unfortunately part of the movement. I didn't know. He should still shut the gently caress up about trans people and women.
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Apr 22, 2022 01:40
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I think this is an important drum to beat, to make plain that the "increase" in people being trans or non-binary is not driven by some nefarious conspiracy or a society that is too permissive or whatever -- it's a thing that's always, always been around, and if more people are identifying as non-binary or trans, it's because they have the language and/or the opportunity to express their feelings and act on them, whereas maybe in the past they would not have. Trans identities existed in western cultures before christianity. We were seen as spiritual leaders, there were entire roman and greek cults full of trans people for example Herodotus even wrote of scythian priestesses who would drink the urine of mares in order to feminise themselves. Literally what premarin was in the 90s. PREgnant MAR uRINe. IIRC jews had 5 societal genders at one point? I'm not 100% on that one
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Apr 22, 2022 05:41
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Sharkie posted:You have uh "concerns" about trans women doing too well in sports so no, you do not fit in anywhere. I think this is a good example for the ally chat. How are you is clearly stating they are straightn't. He's saying he comes from a hosed up catholic environment that has messed him up. He didn't say anything too egregious in that thread - he was no trolologist or aginor or mycophobia or col. cool. He's clearly thinking through some poo poo and is stating hes pondering where he sits sexually, seems like hes going to land somewhere around bi. He is one of us. We don't have to tolerate transphobia. We shouldn't have to. But this ain't it Sharkie. How Are You I'm gunna have to put my foot down too and say >:c if you question my right to play sport but you're not the enemy. Sharkie if we turn away every single person who comes from a conservative shithole we are never going to get anywhere. Like I admitted to earlier, I'm trans and I was cracking helicopter jokes right up until i came out. I'm better now. I know better now. I like myself now and I was doing that poo poo out of self hatred. He's quite clearly come from an environment where his only exposure to people like me (and you?) is loving silence of the lambs and ace ventura, that doesnt make him a bastard. It makes him a victim of this same bullshit culture around queerness.
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Apr 22, 2022 11:38
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He is quite literally in good faith in this thread unpacking his religious bullshit. Towards his own sexuality. He posted some stuff in another thread thats likely informed by the same bullshit. We have more in common with him than he does with the people who make him feel like he cant unpack his sexuality and told him to hate transfolk.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:49
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OwlFancier posted:And that is contingent upon the continued self reflection and arrival at a better outlook, not on merely being bisexual. If we can't find common ground with a guy like that and talk to him then we are doomed. A guy who probably doesnt hate us but hasnt been prompted to think on or ever really been exposed to us at all. A guy whos actively sitting there and saying out loud that he's realising his rearing taught him hosed up things. or do we tell him to gently caress off forever and he has no place at our table because he said something not out of hatred, but out of ignorance, ignorance that hes clearly taking the steps needed *on his own* to analyse. The same ignorance that stops people from knowing they are trans or bi or whatever else until later in life, the same ignorance that hurts so many good people in our community and stops them from realising who they are, causes all people to say dumb hurtful things they look back on and regret with time. Expecting people to be perfect from day dot is an impossibly high standard when any sort of positive view of us is forced to the very margins and the mainstream calls us sex offenders. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good. Surely all of you have met the dumb cishet who doesnt know anything but means well and is trying? You going to turn them away too for not being as informed as we are on our issues when 100% of people get taught literally 0 good and real and meaningful things about us? Do you actually interact with humans in the real world?
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Apr 22, 2022 15:05
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah, I feel ya Sharkie. I feel like some days I really want to be trans Jesus and do my best to help people come to understand. And then other days I just want to be a total bitch about it. Part of my openness about talking about my body comes from having to speak to my experience so much at work, better me than children though. For me, I just take it out on people I know to be incredibly deeply personal poo poo. I bully the gently caress out of the rusted on phobes. It's probably not the healthiest but I'm only human and gently caress those people. quote:Less so different gender identities, and more words for different types of being intersex or androgynous. Hebrew in general is very, very gendered as a language, so it's less progressive than it seems. Thats really interesting. I agree with you as a fellow white woman too. I try to not lay claim to those identities, and even the places trans people had in western societies pre christianity are not really related to me right now as a white woman in Australia. I think its fine to point all of them out and say look this is what other humans did, we are the oddity inisisting on x or y, for white supremacist reasons. You also expose people as white supremacists doing that, I don't know if you've seen the recent dunking ben shapiro took but a black man pointed this stuff out to him and Ben straight up said "they are wrong". Racism is a lot easier to get people on board with telling someone to gently caress off too so its win win. E: Like the scythians Herodotus wrote about. They had a high place in that culture and theres no way Herodotus invented what was 1990s hrt wholecloth. Different societies treated the concept we call trans differently, we are the oddities for refusing to even acknowledge it. Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 23, 2022 |
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Apr 23, 2022 03:51
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Liquid Communism posted:Vaush should shut the gently caress up in general as well. Dude's a self-admitted sex pest who has argued in favor of legalizing possession of CSAM because he sees no moral or legal argument against it as there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. That too. Lmao BTW if you read that awful trans sports thread and thought it was awful you should go voice your opinion in the mod feedback thread
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Apr 24, 2022 05:49
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I personally have been attracted to women that do and do not have dicks, and so has my cis lesbian girlfriend. Neither of us like dicks, neither of us want to interact with them regardless of owner. I think I could, but I mostly am incredibly averse to cum, whereas my girlfriend doesn't want to see one at all. I'd personally rather get with the gentials I actually really do like even if I could in theory do something with a penis. Before I got a vagina I didn't take my pants off during sex, I got my enjoyment from it in other ways, and that was fine for both of us. I always find it ridiculous when people go on and on about genital preferences, because of how my girlfriend and I handled it. It was so easy, it was so never a problem. I'm not even the first person my girlfriends dated that still had a dick when she met them.
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Apr 27, 2022 09:18
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smug n stuff posted:
We all know about that 41% study yeah? Its worth pointing out that because of the state of things its well and truly beyond the line of impossible to know how suicidal trans people are Given that 41% stat for example, its a study of trans people who are willing to say they are trans. More importantly it's a study of the living ie those that failed or havent attempted. Its impossible to know how many dead trans people there are. I don't think its a debate that our stats on trans suicide estimate low, I think its a debate of how grossly wrong the data is, and I think its worth pointing out.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:36
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Dog King posted:This is because I'd probably be trans if the technology was better, You're already trans, you just don't think current technology would satisfy you. Cis people don't say this.
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Apr 30, 2022 08:20
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Dog King posted:What I'm interested to go over is the exact definition of trans where it makes sense to say one can be trans and not know it. Or where being trans can't be conditional on externalities, like Jaxyon implied. Like I said, the definition I'm operating under is "identify as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth," but I'm not really an expert in this. I don't know how to articulate it in proper philosophical vocabulary, but someone who hasn't come out to themselves as being gay was still always gay, no? A lot of people don't relaise they are trans because of the pressure put on them ny a cisnormative society, but lesbians who suffered under comphet were still gay the whole time.
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May 1, 2022 01:05
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Hey if cool is going to post in this thread, can we make it an explicit rule that transphobia is not allowed because this thread is not a safe place to expose your bigotry, and neither is it the place for playing devils advocate with transgender issues The entire reason we have an IK is because of Koos inability to grasp why this was an issue and how Cool's behaviour led to the extinction of any reasonable discussion Just to head it off E: I mean playing devils advocate is already clearly and obviously against good faith rules unless its trans stuff already so it would be good to clarify that trans issues are covered under that before we end up with another triple perma thread Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 1, 2022 |
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May 1, 2022 03:13
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Dog King posted:The problem I see with seeing trans as an intrinsic and unchangeable (essential) quality, where your actions and self-description don't affect it, is that it can lead to someone like me who lives as their assigned gender being able to say they're trans in spite of that having no material effect on their life. Like if I walked into a trans space and said I was one of them, but I have no plans to ever identify as a woman or change my life in any way, I think they'd be justified in looking at me weird. To be blunt, I think I would look at you with sorrow. Your situation must suck, and it's yet another anecdote to add to the pile of "please for the love of god give us puberty blockers and research funding". You said if the tech was there you'd do it and everyone deserves the chance to live outwardly as their authentic self. I sure hope that "I'm trans but I don't want to act on it because the technology isn't there yet" and "I would transition if medical technology was better" don't get you excluded from anything. I can see people being sensitive if they felt like you were attacking their choices here though, people are (rightfully and understandably) pretty sensitive so you may have to be particular with your language. I've had a vaginaplasty myself and I can understand why someone wouldn't want to go through it for the result thats available right now but golly gosh my heckles would be up if I felt it was getting poo poo talked and I'm not alone. I don't want to be pushy but I would advise still looking into some sort of gender counselling. I know quite a few trans people who said this sort of thing as a cope, to keep themselves in the closet. I know more who are out and want things like Phallo but and are miserable without a penis, but current tech isn't good enough especially in Australia where there is 1 surgeon who can do it and it costs 100k AUD and it sucks for them. That would be what I'd say if I met you in a real world trans space and the conversation ended up here too. e: I want to be clear too: You are very far from the only one to feel this way Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 13:17
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i default to they in that situation cause its safe lmao
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May 5, 2022 11:05
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I guess I personally find it hard to beleive that you can be happier not transitioning but that could be a me problem. What exactly about the current technology doesn't do it for you out of curiosity? Theres an awful lot of misinformation out there about what the different aspects of medical transition do and dont do.
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May 6, 2022 07:11
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Minera posted:There's some downsides to GCS, even with as far as the medicine has come. Especially so if you're transmasc, there's certain functionalities that will always be lacking, for now. There's also the current problem of motherhood/fatherhood being impossible with current medicine. I know plenty of trans women who will always personally feel incomplete because, with current medicine, they can never carry a child. You're completely right but Dog King didn't say it was prohibiteively expensive, he said the technology wasn't there. It does set of a red flag for types of thoughts like "I could never pass", "I'd be an ugly clockable freak", and whatever other internalised bigotry you can think of. King also didn't say it was surgery, just the technology and bought up crispr. I'm one of of those women who doesn't feel quite complete, and I got it because it was either get it or die, my dysphoria about that thing was horrendous and debilitating. gently caress, 12 momths ago i was 2 months out from surgery and checking myself into the mental hospital cause I couldn't take it. I don't really have any other way to quantify it other than other trans people looked at me and told me to my face they were glad they weren't me :/. For me it's not about sex, or childbirth, or anything, its just feeling right in my body and I would slam the button every time to just have genital nullification or w/e (like a barbie doll) if that was the only option. I was nearly killed in 2015 and I paid for my vagina with the payout from that, I had to nearly die in order to not die later. I also don't at all think you have to desire surgery or have dysphoria about your junk to be A Real Tran. Even if we could transplant a vagina and uterus, or dick and balls, its never going to be an easy thing to go through before cost even comes into it and I don't think your gender is made invalid by looking at it and going 'thats not for me'. Miss Broccoli fucked around with this message at 14:56 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 14:52
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https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1522684337497456640 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_OI1FXX4x0
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May 7, 2022 02:10
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A lot of dumb goons ITT and not maliciously so just naive If you are asked these sorts of gotchas and it isn't someone you know personally then you never ever answer unless you are explicitly media trained. Not trained in gender studies, not trained in whatever else related to a different similarly bullshit gotcha, media training. You shut the question down and refuse to play to their framing. If you accept their framing you have already lost. You are never going to convince the person asking you, like the person asking you will not be convinced by you. It's all about the audience and how it plays to that audience and if you are not media trained you will gently caress it up. Never talk to media, never talk to tiktok dipshits at events, never EVER go on tv for any cause unless you have media training. "I know what you are trying to do and I'm not interested in this silly game" and walking away or something with that same message is the only correct answer. Unless you are media trained. It is their job to make you look stupid. You will not win, you will not look good no matter what you do.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:26
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think this part is actually easy to answer though: So I can just decide to be black then? You just lost Timeless Appeal posted:—Race is actually more malleable when you get out of just white people. But the big difference between race in the American sense in which it exists in reference to whiteness is that it’s not a human constant. We still have a lot to learn about gender identity, but it seems like it’s part of human development. And there really isn’t an example of a culture in which humans didn’t develop gender constructs. That’s not true for race. A person who pretends to be Black is making a choice while a trans person is not because as important as race is in the reality of our lives, it doesn’t have to be a part of your being. But they are choosing they could just be their agab. You just lost never engage.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:31
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doingitwrong posted:Which module of media training covers “telling people they are dumb in order to begin their education”? the first one obviously
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Jun 6, 2022 03:23
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If you and yours live in Idaho, this Saturday there is a far right militia planning on having a confrontation at pride https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbtUdNAVYw&t=34s  Please be safe
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Jun 8, 2022 08:18
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Look at the upload date on the video too btw. Apparently at that even there were sitting Republicans?
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Jun 8, 2022 12:06
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Timeless Appeal posted:It is worth clarifying--because the media often does not--that there are two surgeries for "breast removal." Anyone who has developed breasts through puberty does require a mastectomy and removal of the breasts in order to get top surgery if they seek it out. However if breast development is stunted through puberty blockers, a keyhole surgery can be used that is closer to a liposuction and much less invasive. Keyhole can be done on adults who didn't get blockers too, it depends on the patient and how much tissue there is. My friend was just outside of being a good candidate for it, you can have quite a bit more tissue than you're probably thinking you can.
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Jun 16, 2022 03:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm on the autistic spectrum, so there is absolutely a genetic aspect of me that made me predisposed to be trans. the gently caress
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Sep 4, 2022 10:26
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yeah that will happen when as discussed above we have to go through mental health screening for something so simple as hair removal let alone anything complex like a surgery. cis people don't face that same scrutiny and autism is classically hard to diagnose after children have had masking beaten into them
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Sep 4, 2022 10:51
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PT6A posted:I think it makes sense that people who are, for lack of better phrase, forced to think consciously about how they fit into society, might also think more about gender identity and how it relates to that. Yeah theres a bunch of different factors like this. Its incredibly unlikely theres a causal factor between autism and transness beyond something like "being autistic makes you feel less strongly about allistic gender roles". Its really silly and will get used to harm both communities; I'm saying this as an allistic trans woman who was on the receiving end of a tonne of autism related ableism.
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Sep 6, 2022 02:13
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Cattail Prophet posted:I mean, while it's an extreme example, and the school setting and safety concerns do complicate matters, there's also a genuine discussion to be had about how women with large busts get discriminated against in the workplace for dressing "unprofessionally." (Read: wearing clothes that fit) why do you think its a good idea to bring that up in this context. dont
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Sep 22, 2022 02:05
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