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The LGBT+ issue that interests me the most is the medical/biological technology of gender confirmation. This is because I'd probably be trans if the technology was better, and also because it's unusual for our social technology to overtake the rest of our technology. In most cases it's the other way around. For example, our social technology hasn't kept pace with our industrial technology, which is causing climate change. Or how we invented atomic bombs before we were responsible enough to have them, which led to two being used in warfare as well as close-calls during the Cold War. There's also an example that hasn't happened yet in whether we consider a hypothetical strong AI to be a person like a human (most people don't). Though as I was writing that I realized that it's not just whether the memes exist, it's whether enough people hold them for them to do their job. So the fact that there's still controversy over whether trans people are the gender they identify as is similar to there being controversy over whether climate change is real/a problem. And that's not even going into what happens when powerful people's interests get in the way, which I'm not sure is as much of an issue for trans rights. Other than political pundits, when it comes to transphobia, cui bono? Not to get all Nick Land, but what I'm looking forward to seeing is how gender essentialism breaks down as relevant technology progresses. The Ben Shapiros of the world say there is a quality that cis people have that trans people lack, and he points to sex chromosomes and the ability to produce children in the way typical of a gender. But is he saying those things are the quality, or merely that they're evidence of the quality? When his hair is gray and there's a trans woman fully CRISPed to have XX in every cell, who gives birth to a beautiful baby after gestation and impregnation indistinguishable from a cis woman, maybe then we'll find out.
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Apr 29, 2022 19:52
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Lyesh posted:it's pretty abundantly clear that the only people a lot of our culture will ever truly consider women is people who were assigned female at birth, with XX genes being important but not sufficient. I agree. I mostly meant that part about whether the the omni-Shapiro would change its mind rhetorically. I would bet money that they won't in most cases, because chromosomes and gametes aren't reasons for their beliefs, they're excuses.
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Apr 29, 2022 20:06
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OwlFancier posted:So concerns can and will be invented and performatively espoused as long as the act of doing so can serve those purposes. So I think the most likely solution is not technological (though that might help render the idea of "being able to tell" even more farcical than it already is) but rather that I think a big part of the profusion of queerness among younger people since the real blows were dealt to its repression in the past couple of decades, is rooted in the fact that it is simply better to not bother with enforcing norms. I think this is what Zizek means when he talks about how the "plus" is the most important part of LGBTQIA+, and I agree with that. Adding more letters to the acronym doesn't make it more inclusive, because it's still reinforcing the idea that each one needs to be sanctioned for it to count. I think the point of maximum inclusiveness would be when it's just a plus and nothing else. Dr. Stab posted:There is no gender essence in the body. They define these specific things to be that essence to exclude trans people, and then also carve out exceptions for cis people who don't have those things. If we get reproductive organ transplants, then that will get dropped from their definition. This becomes very obvious when you get confronted by misinformed transphobes. They might say something like "a woman has real breasts that can make milk." And when confronted with the fact that trans women have breasts just as real as theirs that developed in the same way, it does not make them think trans women are really women. It makes them change their definition of what a "real" woman is. Yeah. I don't think technological progress is going to eradicate transphobia (which was hopefully obvious from my first post). It might reduce it by making it harder to justify, but the essentialism that underlies it isn't a contingent belief that's sensitive to evidence or changes in the world. Dr. Stab posted:Whether you have XX or XY chromosomes doesn't make difference after birth. They define whether the body develops testes or ovaries, and all of the other code for sex differentiation is activated by estrogen and androgen exposure and exists in other parts of the genome. This isn't technically true. Sex chromosomes continue to influence endocrine production after birth, even independent of what gonads a person has. One way you can tell this is with De La Chapelle syndrome, where XX people have the SRY gene which causes them to have external and internal genitalia indistinguishable from XY males during childhood, but they sometimes require testosterone supplementation to develop fully male secondary sex characteristics during puberty. This is also an example of another thing the Y chromosome does after birth, which is enable spermatogenesis, because most people with de la Chapelle syndrome are infertile. Dr. Stab posted:I don't mean to push anything on you, but I have thought the exact same thing years ago when I knew less about how it worked. I appreciate you caring enough about another human being to want to help, and also being open enough to talk about your own experience, but there's a lot of personal stuff at play and I don't think anything I learned about the current tech would be enough.
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Apr 29, 2022 21:02
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Jaxyon posted:This struck me as odd. I'm not going to tell you whether you are transgender or not, but it's worth mentioning that there are many people who are transgender but who do not undergo any affirming medical treatments, for a variety of reasons. Affirmation tech shouldn't necessarily affect whether or not you a transgender. If you are you are. So as far as I know, whether you're trans is defined by whether you identify as a different gender than the one you were assigned at birth. I don't now, and would under different circumstances. Therefore I'm not trans, but would be.
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Apr 29, 2022 21:13
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AGAB makes sense just as a provisional thing, in terms of statistics. Most people born with penises will identify as men, and most people born with vaginas will identify as women. It seems like the healthier attitude to aim for would be "this can change and it's no big deal when it does and also you don't need to enforce any gender roles on your kid and just let them do what they want." And that second part's true even irrespective of trans people.
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Apr 30, 2022 02:52
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Miss Broccoli posted:You're already trans, you just don't think current technology would satisfy you. Cis people don't say this. Timeless Appeal posted:Per the OP, can we please refrain from prescribing or assuming someone’s gender identity. I think it’s fine to talk from experience or ask questions, but being prescriptive is a really slippery slope. What I'm interested to go over is the exact definition of trans where it makes sense to say one can be trans and not know it. Or where being trans can't be conditional on externalities, like Jaxyon implied. Like I said, the definition I'm operating under is "identify as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth," but I'm not really an expert in this.
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Apr 30, 2022 17:00
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The problem I see with seeing trans as an intrinsic and unchangeable (essential) quality, where your actions and self-description don't affect it, is that it can lead to someone like me who lives as their assigned gender being able to say they're trans in spite of that having no material effect on their life. Like if I walked into a trans space and said I was one of them, but I have no plans to ever identify as a woman or change my life in any way, I think they'd be justified in looking at me weird.
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May 2, 2022 08:49
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doingitwrong posted:Yeah, “I could lie to people,” is not actually a powerful philosophical objection. That wouldn't be lying to people in the example I gave. Dr. Stab posted:At least my local trans support group is very open to people who just want to talk about gender and figure things out. It's not like an exclusive club, it's just a place for people to who want to talk about gender stuff, with a huge variety of experiences represented. The rules are designed specifically to discourage "are you really trans enough?" gatekeeping. If you earnestly think you belong there or benefit from being there and aren't being a poo poo to others, nobody has a problem with it. And, I wouldn't have any problem with a non transitioning trans person in trans spaces. Fair enough then.
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May 2, 2022 11:38
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Miss Broccoli posted:I sure hope that "I'm trans but I don't want to act on it because the technology isn't there yet" and "I would transition if medical technology was better" don't get you excluded from anything. I can see people being sensitive if they felt like you were attacking their choices here though, people are (rightfully and understandably) pretty sensitive so you may have to be particular with your language. I've had a vaginaplasty myself and I can understand why someone wouldn't want to go through it for the result thats available right now but golly gosh my heckles would be up if I felt it was getting poo poo talked and I'm not alone. I think that's what happened last time I talked about it, which is why I don't usually talk about it anymore, and if I ever do I try to emphasize that this is just me personally who feels this way and I'm not saying anything about what anyone else should do. Miss Broccoli posted:I don't want to be pushy but I would advise still looking into some sort of gender counselling. I know quite a few trans people who said this sort of thing as a cope, to keep themselves in the closet. I know more who are out and want things like Phallo but and are miserable without a penis, but current tech isn't good enough especially in Australia where there is 1 surgeon who can do it and it costs 100k AUD and it sucks for them. The reason I don't get gender counseling or pursue anything along those lines is because there's a just a fundamental mismatch and it's not possible to change either side of the mismatch, currently, to my satisfaction. Like on that button test, I answered "yes" to question one and "yes if it made me straight" to question two, but those don't reflect the realities of gender confirmation or conversion therapy.
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May 6, 2022 00:11
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Guavanaut posted:Then you can point out that there is an epidemic of infant genital mutilation to force intersex children into one of two binary boxes, and it's been going on for decades, and that's a perfect example of a real world harm caused by viewing sex and gender as binaries, and is far far worse than anything caused by supporting a child to socially transition. I think the issue of intersex medical intervention is a little more complicated than you're giving it credit for. Sometimes it's done for medical reasons, like increasing the likelihood of fertility, improving urinary, fecal and menstrual functions, or reducing the risk of cancer and infection. Orchiopexy, for example, is surgery for normalizing undescended testicles, which can technically be an intersex condition due to chromosomal abnormalities. killer_robot posted:Bisexuals seem to have this bad rep with the people I know where both sides think they're odd sluts that need to pick a side. Het think they're just flirting with the other side and should settle down, and gays think they're trying not to be gay so they can't represent/solidarity/etc. How can you trust someone to have your back when they can just play with the opposing team? I haven't had to deal with this as much as some bis because I mostly get involved with men/people with dicks, but it's definitely something that happens and even though it's more impolite to talk about now it's still popular among the kind of people who're just really confident in their schemas of how people work and think.
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May 21, 2022 08:28
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You may have heard of Kayla Lemieux. The story went viral, particularly among anti-trans people who profit off of how gross it is. https://twitter.com/hippojuicefilm/status/1570173548571893761 The school board made a statement implying they don't have a problem with it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/oakville-teacher-viral-reports-trafalgar-high-school-1.6588711 quote:The HDSB recognizes the rights of students, staff, parents/guardians and community members to equitable treatment without discrimination based upon gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity and gender expression are protected grounds under the Ontario Human Rights Code What strikes me about it is that this decision is actually insulting to trans people. It's acting as though this is just a normal thing trans people do and therefore must be protected by anti-discrimination policies. If a cis woman came to school wearing giant fake tits with the nipples visible, any school board would be on that poo poo in one second, as they should. I'm guessing the school board has zero actual understanding of trans issues and their implementation of the policy is just clumsily trying not to get yelled at.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:52
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UnknownMercenary posted:So that teacher with the prosthetic breasts was a right wing op. Not really surprised and also partly why I avoided any discussion about it because it seemed so obvious, but the mainstream media really ran with that poo poo. From what I'm seeing, that's not what happened, or at least not what's happening in the pictures in the tweet. It looks like a Rebel News "reporter" named David Menzies dressed similarly to the trans teacher and went to a school board meeting for trolling purposes. https://www.outkick.com/mammary-menzoid-trolls-school-board-over-transgender-teacher-with-giant-chest/ The only other source the Serfs have is an anonymous tip from someone who claims to have been in the teacher's class.
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Oct 25, 2022 08:13
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