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Timeless Appeal posted:Bisexual-- a term for people who like two genders, often male or female I'd like to chime in and note this right here is an enormous can of worms. Bisexuality's naming convention is a lot older than discourse around the modern model of gender identity being a spectrum. A better working definition of bisexuality in my opinion is 'attraction to more than one gender', where as pansexuality more accurately is defined as 'attraction regardless of gender'. Unfortunately the definitions used above have been used by certain people to harass bisexual people by claiming they are inherently transphobic or prejudiced against non-binary people, both of which are fairly absurd and pretty offensive. Edited to clarify, as opinions on such definitions are just that, there really isn't any prescriptive definition. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 05:10
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Absolutely, and there's no real good that can come of arguing against someone's self-definition, nobody else knows their mind as well as they do. It's a frustrating issue, and not helped by the amount of poo poo people get over bi/pan identities even from other queer people over stuff like 'if you're in a faithful closed relationship with a partner, then clearly you're gay/straight', or 'a bi partner is always going to cheat on you, it's in their nature'.
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Apr 12, 2022 10:34
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I don't look back fondly on my high school years for the same reason. Growing up in the rural Midwest in the 80's-90's was not a place to develop a healthy attitude towards queer issues and I know for a fact I said a lot of pretty heinously homophobic poo poo to try to blend in and not admit that hearing it hurt.
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Apr 16, 2022 09:12
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In response, Minnesota's got a bill proposed to make them a sanctuary state: https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1517010154570588160?s=20&t=aHrwB8ru1WqVWd4HhC6VEA Reading it, it's nicely specific in how it shelters families.
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Apr 21, 2022 08:14
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Miss Broccoli posted:I didn't know. He should still shut the gently caress up about trans people and women. Vaush should shut the gently caress up in general as well. Dude's a self-admitted sex pest who has argued in favor of legalizing possession of CSAM because he sees no moral or legal argument against it as there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 24, 2022 05:44
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The state of research is rapidly changing as are the definitions of what is even being researched. The criteria for Gender Dysphoria, for example, were changed significantly in the DSM-V from the old definitions that were part of Gender Identity Disorder, no longer treating it as a mental illness to be worked against but a source of psychological distress to be treated. Much like the removal of homosexuality as a mental illness in 1973. This means that a lot of the older research is based on definitions of transgender identity that are wholly out of touch with the modern understanding, making it somewhere between difficult and outright intellectually dishonest to try and draw conclusions from them. For an example of the intellectual dishonesty, see Florida's recent one-pager here. In it, they state that social transition and gender-affirming treatment should not be given to children and adolescents based on a 2105 paper referencing studies from decades before that determined 80% of a sample of birth-assigned male children seen for gender identity issues in the late 80's at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto did not still present with them in follow-ups 20 years later. Said study has been criticized for methodological issues given it counts those who did not respond among the 'desisters', and in some cases did not even speak to the patients at all, but rather their parents. The author later wrote a rebuttal to criticism stating that the paper being quoted did not attempt to measure rate of persistence at all. The Child Gender Identity Clinic at CAMH, it must be noted, has since ceased operation. Kenneth Zucker, author of some of the studies referenced by the Florida DH, was a clinician there who made statements about his practice that were decried as amounting to conversion therapy, and was let go and the clinic closed after an external review could not state this was not the case. Another who worked for the clinic was Ray Blanchard, who those interested in trans issues may be familiar with as the primary proponent of the theory of autogynephilia, which has been widely criticized and rejected by WPATH as lacking any empirical evidence. The Human Rights Campaign has a more detailed rebuttal, with reference to studies published in the last few years, here. The American Psychological Association has responded as well, stating: quote:“This memo from the Florida Department of Health distorts the psychological science regarding the treatment of gender non-conforming children. Research into the treatment of gender non-conforming individuals has found that withholding evidence-based treatments can be psychologically damaging, especially to children and youths who are struggling with their gender identity. Rates of self-injury, suicidal ideation and suicide attempts are much higher among gender dysphoric youth, ironically attributed to stress associated with non-affirming approaches to these very real issues.
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Apr 26, 2022 02:44
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Craptacular! posted:It's almost like we need to turn the Kinsey scale from a linear 1-10 thing into a Political Compass meme wherein sex characteristics and gender identity are charted on an axis. The Kinsey scale is 75 years old and further elaboration on it has been ongoing. Adding an X and Y axis to denote a scale between asexuality (attraction to no partners) and pansexuality (attraction to all partners regardless of gender expression) was proposed as early as 1980. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 04:19
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Yeah. That is definitely not the context 'identifies as' is used in normally. It is a matter of self-definition, not outward announcement. It's also often twisted by transphobes, TERFs especially, as a way to otherise trans people. Constantly using 'x identifies as a woman' to imply 'but is not', especially by "jokes" like 'I identify as an attack helicopter', to quote one of the most common angles of this bullshit.
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Apr 26, 2022 05:59
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A lot of people, especially those who've never questioned their own self-definitions, have a very hard time drawing a hard line between 'this is what I find attractive' and 'this is how people are allowed to be'.
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Apr 27, 2022 02:36
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It also depends on how you're counting transgender people. Most of the research done has been on women who transitioned. Men who transitioned and nonbinary people who identify as trans seem rarely considered.
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Apr 28, 2022 01:57
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Timeless Appeal posted:As I brought up earlier though, there predictable variables that make someone less likely to identify as queer: Remember too that's warped by both the social pressure not to talk about it, and the 324,029 men and women who died of AIDS in the decade between 1987 and 1998. Roughly 10% of all out gay men among the Boomers died in those ten years.
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Apr 28, 2022 13:17
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Craptacular! posted:This is gonna sound kind of like I never developed empathy, but a certain number of teenagers die every year, and some of them are queer. Proportionally how many of them are queer, I haven’t seen any details to see how it aligns with the general population. If you don't know, why are you then immediately trying to minimalize it? I want to think you're in good faith, but that sort of response is exactly the rhetoric that immediately puts up my hackles and says 'this person is a bad actor pretending to be civil'. Please stop and ask yourself why that is your first reaction.
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Apr 29, 2022 07:38
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Jaxyon posted:It should be pointed out that sex is very much not a binary and it's entirely possible for you to be XX and present as a male with a fully functioning male biology. Sex is a spectrum just as gender is. Yeah, it's important to remember that the 'assigned sex at birth' transphobes harp on is quite literally a best guess by doctors based on external anatomy, not some pronouncement from on high.
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Apr 30, 2022 07:20
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Speaking of research on LGBTQ+ issues: https://pridestudy.org/study The PRIDE (Population Research in Identity and Disparities for Equality) study is an ongoing long-term national health study from Stamford School of Medicine and UCAL SF to better understand health issues in the LGBTQ+ community as there has been a lack of research on how we are affected specifically, and what disparities exist in health care. https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/08/pride-study-will-help-doctors-learn-about-lgbtq-health.html posted:The study’s principal investigators, Juno Obedin-Maliver and Mitchell Lunn—both physicians and researchers at UCSF—were medical school colleagues at Stanford, and two of the founding members of the school’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, & Transgender Medical Education Research Group. (Lunn was co-author of a study about homophobia in medical schools, which I’ve written about previously.) Obedin-Maliver told me:
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May 1, 2022 05:11
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Dog King posted:The problem I see with seeing trans as an intrinsic and unchangeable (essential) quality, where your actions and self-description don't affect it, is that it can lead to someone like me who lives as their assigned gender being able to say they're trans in spite of that having no material effect on their life. Like if I walked into a trans space and said I was one of them, but I have no plans to ever identify as a woman or change my life in any way, I think they'd be justified in looking at me weird. Frankly, who cares? Labels are descriptive, not prescriptive. To use an example from my own life, my orientation does not depend on who I'm presently in a relationship with. There's no bisexual mafia out there throwing people out of the club if they aren't smooching a sufficient variety of partners. If you're questioning your gender enough to want to say that you're transgender, the odds of you not being so are extremely slim. A fair number of transgender people, especially nonbinary folks, may not outwardly transition in any easily observable way. Especially given the discrimination, hate, and violence directed at openly trans people. If you're just going into those spaces to be an rear end in a top hat, it'll be glaringly obvious, and frankly a lot of extra work since some dudes will walk in anywhere and feel justified by their social role of perceived authority. Same thing that always comes up around bathroom bills. If a predator wants to assault someone in a womens' restroom they will just do so. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:07 on May 2, 2022 |
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May 2, 2022 11:03
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It's absolutely a threat. Fifteen minutes after that decision drops, the TX AG is going to issue guidance only allowing marriage certificates to be valid for straight marriages based on 'Original, unaltered certificate of birth'. Shortly backed up by executive order from Abbot to bait a civil rights suit that can be escalated through the 5th District to Alito's desk.
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May 4, 2022 01:13
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Yeah, that's a thing. Even something relatively more minor like top surgery for trans dudes is out of reach for a lot of people due to the costs and recovery time involved.
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May 6, 2022 11:03
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It's just the usual bullshit. "I don't personally have the will to do violence against you, so I'll just pretend you don't exist and hope others do the violence for me offscreen so I can pretend it never happened."
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May 13, 2022 13:58
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OwlFancier posted:The common one that really weird me out is "how can you be in a monogamous relationship, you'll always want to cheat with the gender you aren't with" Yeah, I lean on 'dude, the number of people of your preferred gender you have slept with isn't even a rounding error compared to the population, what keeps you from loving them?’ It seems like it's always dudes for some reason. OwlFancier posted:I was I suppose more thinking about the pearl clutching about younger people transitioning, or showing any indication of wanting to transition. The Venn diagram of TERF parents and narcissists isat best slightly oval. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 16:52
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Fritz the Horse posted:My experience of treatment of bisexual men in the gay male community was mostly "oh you're actually gay you're just shy and still half in the closet." Yep, heard that line before. Weirdly coupled with being hit on after telling someone I was in a relationship because they assumed bi meant 'incapable of sticking to a single partner'.
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May 23, 2022 04:47
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Due to having no sexual preference for men or for women I thought I was bi for my entire life up until Jan. 2020 when I learned that actually, I am functionally the opposite, I am ace (and I am also forever grateful to Julias and to you, Liquid Communism! for telling me that this is an orientation that is real and exists). Unfortunately this means I am twice-over excluded from the greater LGBTQ community Glad to have been helpful, LaB! It's a shame that there are LGBT+ people out there who struggle to understand ace folks and make them feel welcome. I can kind of see how, for some, it'd be hard to get their head around someone lacking attraction when attraction is such a strong part of one's self identification, but that's still no reason to be a gatekeeper over it. I honestly think there is more to be found in common than not when it comes to folks whose orientation lies outside of the assumed social norm of heterosexuality. On another note, anyone bracing themselves for the incoming wave of pinkwashing? I already saw a new low in Walmart house-brand Pride themed ice cream... Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 22:20 on May 23, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 22:18
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It mostly bugs me because it's often a cynical marketing grab companies use while treating their LGBT+ (especially trans) employees like second class citizens year round.
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May 24, 2022 02:43
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Would and likely will over the next decade or so depending on how the ongoing attempts of the religious right to install Christian dominionist beliefs as law go. The megacorps will support whatever makes them money, and that'll waver based on public perception.
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May 24, 2022 09:09
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Yeah. Please do not turn the CCCC chat threads into pits of endless despair. We've got Twitter if we need a running list of all the terrible bullshit going on.
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May 26, 2022 11:43
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:I mean, a certain meme comes to mind, where discussing gender with trans people is likened to a Socratic dialogue with Socrates himself, and discussing gender with cis people is likened to having a complex conversation with a toddler. I've had a number of fascinating discussions about the relationship between sex/physiological realities, gender identity and gender expression with trans people, especially with my non-binary friends, but it's pretty obvious it's something a lot of cis people never really think about or engage with in a meaningful way. I think it comes down to most cisgender people never having had to think deeply on what gender means to them, rather just going intuitively with what they feel fits them and the social expectations developed around it. It's one of those things that until you have a reason to really think about it, can be background noise. some plague rats posted:You can absolutely just not. I can't imagine why you would think you need to? I'd go with 'Your mother, presumably. Now get out of my face.'
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Jun 4, 2022 05:11
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Oh gee, there's that 'grooming' narrative again from so-called Christians. This poo poo is going to end in someone getting shot at, same as the whole Pizzagate bullshit where the foaming at the mouth conservatives got themselves all whipped up over their fantasies and attacked a restaurant. Also gotta love the bit at the bottom where these lovely folks play the 'if these media orgs don't platform is, take it as evidence that all our baseless accusations are true' game. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 11:56
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Yep, and far too often the more fire and brimstone the GOP politician is in describing the sexual sins, the better the chance he or one of his buddies is into whatever he's accusing others of.
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Jun 10, 2022 12:40
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Don't forget that they bring the TERFs' strongest weapons: studies they never read which were reposted with a headline that suits them, and a complete lack of knowledge regarding what exactly the medical treatment they're objecting to others having access to consists of.
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Jun 20, 2022 02:47
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So yeah, to go with today's Roe horseshit: https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1540338064324698112 For those not familiar: Griswold v. Connecticut is the right to privacy case that eliminated contraceptive bans. Obergefell is of course same sex marriage. Lawrence v. Texas is the really fun one, that's the one that eliminated loving sodomy laws. Happy Pride month, here's a SCOTUS justice saying he wants to relitigate criminalizing sexual relations based on his religious beliefs.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:02
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It's going to be a fun next few years. The Democrat establishment will, of course, have zero understanding of why this doesn't drive votes to them.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:27
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Less than a third. Trump's portion of the popular vote to be elected was ~63m out of 153m registered voters, of an adult population of ~255m. So ~24%.
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Jun 24, 2022 16:34
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Gotta love even the AP posting outright loving wrong poo poo to forward that homophobic narrative. Monkeypox is vastly more virulent than an STI, and calling it one means people who should be seeking treatment will hesitate to avoid that shame and thus be infectious in the open for longer, as well as the problems with demonizing gay men over it. Oh, and the 'groomer' calls are back after the head of the loving CDC made a crack in an interview last week how the infections seen in kids so far were 'traced back to the MSM community'.
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Jul 25, 2022 04:29
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Someone should publicly ask MTG how kids get herpes, given it's an STI. I guarantee she has no idea why cold sores exist.
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Jul 25, 2022 22:10
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Meanwhile stateside, the Florida state government which commissioned its own non-peer-reviewed studies (and took a dozen or so older studies out of context to the dismay of their authors) to go against national-level guidance from the DHS and attack trans kids predictably moved forward to attack trans adults by labeling puberty blockers, HRT, and GRS as 'not medically necessary' and therefore not to be covered under Medicaid. https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1558094039114825728 Goes into effect next week, and generally private insurers use what Medicare covers as their guideline for covered treatments, so this is likely to get even uglier.
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Aug 15, 2022 03:35
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OwlFancier posted:By ignoring the latter I would expect. It is much easier to feel like you are right if you simply ignore anything that suggests you aren't. Goes right along with their raging urge to accuse each other of being secretly transgender based on outright prhrenology-level weirdness, and spending their time harassing cis women in the bathroom for not looking feminine enough because contrary to their brainworms there just aren't that many transgender women in the world, as a percentage of population.
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Aug 17, 2022 04:40
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Hawkperson posted:Yeah the weird infantilizing bullshit about how I can't possibly know what I'm about and I've been bullied into transing is.........weird. Yeah, the whole 'stealing our lesbians!' narrative about trans dudes being forced into being trans is certainly a... thing. Especially out of a group that is overwhelmingly straight, middle aged, middle class, cisgender women who bully gay women for not being feminine enough whenever they aren't using them as a prop for their social crusade against transgender people.
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Aug 17, 2022 05:39
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Remember when Utah decided they needed laws against transgender kids playing high school sports? As always, transphobes immediately started seeing their fears everywhere, and now resorted to accusing a cisgender girl of being transgender for winning a swim meet. The parents of the second and third place finishers demanded the school district verify the winner's gender. Neither she, nor her parents were told about this. Thankfully someone has two brain cells and they checked via a records search and not a strip search.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:56
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I mean gently caress that noise, I can eat cheese too if I'm willing to put up with the consequences, that doesn't make me lactose tolerant.  Oh, and of course since it's Friday, noted human-shaped pile of excrement and traitor Marjorie Taylor Green felt the need to show the world her rear end in a top hat like a hairless cat on a glass table. https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1560660360373620737 Full text here: https://greene.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/greene.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/Protect_Children%27s_Innocence_Act_Bill_Text.pdf
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Aug 19, 2022 19:10
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Hits keep on coming: https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/florida-private-christian-school-asks-lgbtq-students-to-leave/quote:HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) – A Florida mother is opening up about her decision to remove her lesbian daughter from a private Christian school with a policy that gay students are not welcome and “would be asked to leave immediately.”
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Aug 23, 2022 01:34
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Victar posted:I never heard of Gillick competence before today, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. "Gillick competence is a term originating in England and Wales and is used in medical law to decide whether a child (a person under 16 years of age) is able to consent to their own medical treatment, without the need for parental permission or knowledge." Note in disgusting truths that 'need for consent of an adult guardian' has been used to keep child brides from getting medical care (including contraceptives or abortions) or filing for divorce from their of-age husbands, as they are legally speaking their guardians.
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Oct 18, 2022 08:05
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