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There’s a possible happy ending of sorts where Amleth goes off with Olga and has a family. But as soon as he realizes he has a family he think he now must go back to battle fight off a future killer like himself. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Obviously Fjord or his sons will come after Amleth because that’s what Odin loves and what Amleth would do. It’s ridiculous to Olga and outsiders. Instead he goes back and kills some men and frees the other slaves. They have control (burning the long house). He could stop here, but yet goes looking for fjord and ends up killing his mother and the young child who looks just like Amleth as a kid. The movie doesn’t lingers here and we see Amleths regret. Then we watch Fjord slowly drag the dead child and dead mother away. The camera does not shy away here. And again, Amleth could leave but agrees to volcano fight. We then see amleth again show his regrets for killing the two as he honors the kid and mothers body at base of volcano. He promises to meet her in Valhalla. This should be an interesting reunion though with everyone betraying and killing each other. This zealous belief in Odin and blood pacts just ends up with everyone dead, except for the one smart woman who decided to leave it all.
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Apr 23, 2022 01:16
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But it's bad because they're white with blonde hair!!!!
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Apr 23, 2022 01:21
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Everything he does to fulfil his religious mandate of avenging his father ends up causing more death and suffering, including slavery, grave robbing and burning children to death. The movie finishes with him imaging he's going to Valhalla before dying in a loving volcano, instead of getting the girl, the family and a measure of peace. It is not that complex, this is baby's first pursuit of vengeance. Get revenge, miss the girl and die in a volcano naked dreaming about heaven.
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Apr 23, 2022 01:39
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RobbZombae posted:Where is the nuance? The movie is pretty straightforward and certainly isn't subtle. It shows Amleth's point of view is the ascention to heaven as he's fulfilled his goals in the manner he reads as successful, but he also lacked the ability to read his mother's joy or process the possibility his father was lovely. He's the protagonist, but not painted as a hero, and the mythological aspects are shown as subjective - part of his characterisation is an inability to consider his perspective is wrong. Of course he believes he goes to heaven - martyrs believe they're right without a doubt. Basic comprehension of the rest of the film shows that they're very obviously not casting Amleth as an anti-hero, hero, or doing the right thing, though.
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Apr 23, 2022 02:10
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RobbZombae posted:The VVitch was a while ago (also at least had a fun female character arc) and The Lighthouse had two actors in it. Not weird. That witch is also in this one, and there were 4 actors in lighthouse. All white (except for a blurry shot of passing indigenous hunters/traders). Why wasn't that a concern for you before? Norse imagery is popular with racists so I can understand giving it the side-eye, but it really depends on how it's depicted. A story about bad people isn't necessarily endorsing their actions or beliefs.
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Apr 23, 2022 02:15
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Loved how this just leaned into the mysticism / animistic elements that usually get "cleaned up" in modern depictions. Also always kinda neat to see how universal some of that stuff is - my partner is West African and was surprised by how similar some of it looked to their indigenous ceremonial practices. (Assuming those elements are reasonably accurate based on how absurd his attention to detail was for The VVitch). Also drat I want to go to Iceland now.
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Apr 23, 2022 02:27
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The animal theming has a an appropriate end. In the beginning, Amleth is called a puppy and cub crawling and learning to bark from his dad. Then we see him hunting under a wolfs skin and even ripping a man’s throat out with his teeth. In Iceland, he howls with the cubs (?) to drive the dogs mad. Finally he mates with Olga and once he learns that he has passed on his genes, he leaves her to hunt once more just as a bear would.
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Apr 23, 2022 02:52
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oh my god
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Apr 23, 2022 15:38
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Blood Boils posted:I mean it's a revenge story, so that kinda comes with the territory. The Lighthouse, more like the WHITE house! Am I right folks?
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Apr 23, 2022 15:46
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https://twitter.com/afraidofwasps/status/1517572463139373058
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Apr 23, 2022 17:32
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I thought the scene where the ravens chew apart the ropes binding Amleth was interesting. It's the most unambiguously supernatural occurrence in the film .
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Apr 23, 2022 17:49
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I think the supernatural is reality for this movie. You could interpret the birds really just being Olga returning and freeing Amleth. But I see no reason to assume mean viking gods are not just messing with the lives of humans like Greek tales or the devil in the witch. There’s also that scene of Amleth and the fox (?) howling and making all the other dogs insane.
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Apr 23, 2022 17:58
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I really liked this movie and I thought it was thematically similar to The Witch where it's just, "let's take this legend and treat it with a straight face and sell the gently caress out of it." This is a viking story, have at it seemed to be the amount of thought Eggers put in and it's an interesting exercise. Obviously it's less interesting subtext than women's treatment in New England and the religious parallels to a lot of modern audiences, and doesn't have as much fun with the concept, but it's really interesting seeing values and ideas from centuries ago placed onscreen in a blockbuster. Like in comparison to Hamlet's endless hesitation Amleth can't kill Fjollnir literally because fate won't let him even unsheathe his sword. It obviously loves its text though I thought him saying "I don't kill women", and later killing his mom and half-brother in arguable self-defence tried to make him too palatable. But hey it's an $80M movie that's gonna lose a lot of money: I can imagine the studio interference. I don't really care much for all the costuming accuracy, the whole time I was just thinking this is pure entertainment and I'm here for its spectacle. And I think all of S. Craig Zahler's films are thinly veiled reactionary propaganda. I was waiting to cringe given the awful history Nordic themes have in the modern world but Eggers makes it very difficult to read that into his movie and I always do that. (Christopher Nolan's Batman is also reactionary bullshit).
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Apr 23, 2022 18:46
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sponges posted:oh my god
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Apr 23, 2022 18:46
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Also I loved this film a lot, even though it's still probably my least favorite Eggers and also my least favorite film of the weekend so far (We're All Going to the World's Fair and You Won't Be Alone)
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Apr 23, 2022 18:47
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checkplease posted:I think the supernatural is reality for this movie. You could interpret the birds really just being Olga returning and freeing Amleth. But I see no reason to assume mean viking gods are not just messing with the lives of humans like Greek tales or the devil in the witch. There’s also that scene of Amleth and the fox (?) howling and making all the other dogs insane. Yeah I thought this treated the supernatural in the same way as the VVitch in that it definitely exists in this world but can still be interpreted ambiguously a lot of the time.
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Apr 23, 2022 19:38
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Pretty wild this is the same guy that wrote and directed lighthouse. I really enjoyed this. Movie was kinda light on acting and I felt they wasted Taylor-Joy, with the exception of her badass “I WILL PLANT YOU TREES” prayer at the end. But I think the flat delivery might have just been part of the atmosphere. Fun and uber violent. Definitely used imagery to tell a story. Did they use a body double for skarsgard when they butchered the Russian mud farm? Skarsgard is a fit dude but he’s 46 and the guy in that attack scene was a loving bear
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Apr 23, 2022 20:34
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I couldn't help but notice, but was the Valkyrie wearing braces?
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Apr 23, 2022 22:21
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I couldn't help but notice, but was the Valkyrie wearing braces? I thought they were teeth tattoos
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Apr 23, 2022 22:28
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Some skulls were found with horizontal marks on their teeth.
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Apr 23, 2022 22:53
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The CGI was convincing to the extent I'm not sure if any of the onscreen arses were real. Assassin's Creed Valhalla was a game I dropped 20 hours in because it was unbelievably loving boring. You, a Viking, have to invade all sixteen regions of England and install sixteen puppet leaders. Mafia 3 was grindy though the story was excellent, Valhalla simply took the piss sixteen times. The worst part was how it sanitized the role of the Viking colonials. You go around doing amusing fetch-quests for everyone and you get a game-over for killing a civilian of all things. I may have dreaded every bit of the raid seen in The Northman, but I loved how it didn't hide how foreign and hosed up the Norse invaders were.
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Apr 23, 2022 23:47
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I loved everything to do with Odin in Valhalla, but not only was it drawn out and boring, half the time you're a CSI investigator and also a Supernanny to English royalty. Pick a lane.
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Apr 24, 2022 00:06
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AC Valhalla also let you go to the realms Asgard and Jotunheim, only to make them boring. A true feat, that. I'm not familiar with the myth of Amleth. How much did the bard nick for his play?
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Apr 24, 2022 00:17
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That's a shame, I loved Odyssey and Origins, and after seeing the Northman I figured I'd pick up Valhalla.
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Apr 24, 2022 00:21
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Hellblade would be a good call.
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Apr 24, 2022 00:36
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RobbZombae posted:Where is the nuance? The Northman purposely leaves his children fatherless so he can kill his own mother, nephew/brother, and uncle in a Nordic murder-suicide. He’s a raider and a slaver. I don’t think he does a single decent or kindhearted thing the entire movie. If I had to guess, his line about not killing women was added by the studio. Possibly the self defense killing of his nephew/brother as well. E: it was a very good movie, but I thought the ending was a little weak. Could have packed a bit more emotional weight with a less outrageous setting imo. A thunderstorm would have added more tension than a volcano to my mind, but still very strong. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 24, 2022 |
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Apr 24, 2022 03:50
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Amleth immediately stabbing his nephew after his mom tries to force herself on him nearly got a laugh out of me in the theater. Almost too on the nose,
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Apr 24, 2022 04:02
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The Kingfish posted:The Northman purposely leaves his children fatherless so he can kill his own mother, nephew/brother, and uncle in a Nordic murder-suicide. He’s a raider and a slaver. I don’t think he does a single decent or kindhearted thing the entire movie. If I had to guess, his line about not killing women was added by the studio. Possibly the self defense killing of his nephew/brother as well. He does set the other slaves free, telling them to do what they please or something like that. But it's true, the good be does is very minimal
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Apr 24, 2022 10:45
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I think that's intentional. He's not an evil man through and through, but the choices he makes (fighting with the berserkers, etc.) end up making him functionally indistinguishable from those that revel in it. And I think the character is self aware to know all this, which makes his choices more tragic. It was a poignant moment when he grieved his mother and half brother at the base of the mountain. To modern sensibilities it's an outrageous paradox, given that he killed them himself. But I think the film triumphs mainly in its exploring of these strange and foreign concepts of justice and righteous action. I enjoyed it and plan on seeing it again.
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Apr 24, 2022 17:19
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I think that's intentional. Yeah, and why the movie is ultimately against this and any accusations that it intentionaly glorifies these actions, is that Amleth laments that following these cultural traditions of vengeance and hate made him hollow until he meets Olga, who presents him with an alternative to his violent culture. Thats when he starts to question his motivation for brutal retribution and considers abandoning it. But of course then its too late and thats when the story really turns into a classical tragedy.
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Apr 24, 2022 19:54
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First page of this thread was truly a mess but this movie rocked. Old guy next to me quietly whispered “hell yeah” when he says he will give the son’s heart back when he lets the girl go.
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Apr 24, 2022 22:01
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Really happy Egger’s brought the farts back.
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Apr 24, 2022 22:20
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The Northman pretty obviously doesn't endorse the violence of the Vikings because it's plainly evident that their way of life is unsustainable. The movie begins with Aurvandil bemoaning about how he longs to be brutally murdered in battle. His obsession with violence and religious ecstasy are passed on to Amleth, and both of their bloodlust is inextricably tied to fantasies of self destruction. How are you going to build a properly functioning nation state when you're running around hoping to get killed in a blood feud? Rather than paying attention to the world around them, Aurvandil and Amleth are devoted to mysticism that leaves them ill-equipped to do anything other than kill. Aurvandil's reign ends the only way it could: in a bloody coup. His successor Fjolnir represents a step towards progress. He and his tribe no longer go viking themselves, but rather participate in a sophisticated trade network that spans the Eurasian continent and go to work developing an agrarian colony. However, Fjolnir's settlement is also insufficiently advanced to persist into the future. He still relies on slave labor, and although he's not too prideful to perform some of his own labor, he still sees those slaves as less than human. Fjolnir's not running around acting like a dog, but he's still liable to turn to human sacrifice when he's under pressure. His attempts to resist the superstitious bloodlust of the past fail, and when they do his settlement is wiped off the face of the earth as his slaves run free. What's so clever about the script is how it marries this revisionist history with the traditional form and themes of the Icelandic saga, where individual lives don't matter nearly as much as the preponderance of family legacy. In a sense, Amleth is rewarded by the end of the movie, but not for slaughtering dozens of people or taking his revenge, but for putting aside his rage and identity for long enough to connect with a woman he has little in common with. Amleth is obviously not mentally fit to be a king of anything, but his children, the product of an intermingling of Nordic and Slavic ethnicities, might have the wisdom he lacks, paving the way forward towards the multicultural empire the Vikings would eventually become, one where women could become powerful traders in their own right rather than chattel. I wish that thoughtfulness was present in the actual filmmaking. Eggers' previous movies were paced to build atmosphere and immersion, but The Northman moves at breakneck speed, moving from plot point to plot point. Scenes that could have been really ominous and tense, like the visions or the fight with the skeleton, have no room to breathe and instead fall flat. In short, great script, poor execution.
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Apr 24, 2022 23:14
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I liked the scenes with the Valkyrie. Good rear end movie.
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Apr 24, 2022 23:28
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Marc Maron has a decent interview with Eggers on his podcast. Just skip to like minute 15 or so to get to the Eggers portion. Eggers talks about how he feels like needs to be very authentic to history and mythology for his movies in order for him to connect to the project. He doesn’t think it makes them better, but just what works for him.
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Apr 24, 2022 23:56
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I liked this movie quite a bit, but in so many dimensions it invites comparison to The Green Knight, and I think the Green Knight is better in nearly every case. I felt like this was particularly true in how the films weaved in the fantastical, mythological imagery. One particular thing about the Northman I did like was how often there were little things going on in the background, often showing characters maybe having more agency than you'd expect. The one that stands out in particular was when they were sacking the Rus village, you get this short vignette of a woman coming forwards and falling to her knees to offer the raiders bread, but it's all a ruse as she lunges at one with a knife.
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Apr 25, 2022 01:29
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Triumph. Tremendous. Epic. Amazing. Goes hard. Best movie of this year. I swear this felt like a $100 big budget blockbuster. The story weaving something of myth and magic into a harsh look at the life of a Viking even if fictional is so well done. I hope it gets its due. The acting is amazing from everyone, the scenery and lighting, costumes, direction, everything, like wow. Edit: budget was $90 million lol. It felt it. I didn’t expect this but well done. Gatts fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 02:25
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Hand Knit posted:
Pretty sure that woman was Olga.
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Apr 25, 2022 02:28
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Hand Knit posted:I liked this movie quite a bit, but in so many dimensions it invites comparison to The Green Knight, and I think the Green Knight is better in nearly every case. I felt like this was particularly true in how the films weaved in the fantastical, mythological imagery. Green knight seems to be about a coward learning what the true value of a knight is and the strength of honor. But here in the Northman, honor is much more dangerous as it is a driving force of revenge. And Amleth does not choose to end the violent cycle. He knows it will end in tragedy but continues anyways. I guess for comparison, it’s like if Sir Gwain has his vision of keeping the belt and the doomed future, but keeps it anyways as he decides it must be fate.
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Apr 25, 2022 02:47
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Woodenlung posted:He does set the other slaves free, telling them to do what they please or something like that. But it's true, the good be does is very minimal While the life they had wasn't great, they're all almost certain to be killed by starvation, animals, or other slaveholders. So, even that minimal good is questionable but, hey, agency.
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Apr 25, 2022 02:55
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