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Koos Group posted:Yes, and that's one of the reasons why the thread was closed. Have you given more thought about the idea of special rules regarding the discussion of trans people/topics?
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Apr 23, 2022 22:44
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Colonel Cool posted:There's so many places on the rest of the forums that are extremely supportive places trans people can go to feel comfortable. I don't think D&D needs to be that place I very very strongly disagree with this, there are not very many extremely supportive spaces for trans people at all, anywhere, on the internet or anywhere else. I do not know why you think there are, but you are incorrect. I think something awful can be a place that is better at having these discussions than almost anywhere else on the internet, if we decide we want to. Step one of that is being an extremely supportive place where trans people can go to feel comfortable.
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Apr 24, 2022 17:47
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Jaxyon posted:Teachin people is fine. Asking questions is fine. None of the transphobes in that thread listened to anyone and made it clear they were not trying to learn. People who have been around the block arguing with transphobes - whether they be trans people or trans allies - have seen this behavior happen in every single discussion of trans people that comes up, everywhere on the internet and off the internet. It's seriously so tiresome. It happens the same way each and every time - someone barges in and makes some big unfounded claim that is extremely bigoted against trans people and argues for their exclusion on its basis, and then the discussion is about that, and people telling them to gently caress themselves, from there on out. I do not think the solution to this is to make telling them to gently caress themselves illegal. The solution is to have a set of rules that must be followed when discussing trans people because these same things happen every time if we don't and it isn't a productive discussion*. There are rules for every subforum that must be read and followed before you post. I do not see why there can't be ones specifically about trans people, which states that we as a community and a society are passed questions such as "are trans women women" or that we know that it simply isn't true that trans women do not automatically dominate sports upon transitioning, and that nobody transitions just to attempt to do this. These are undeniable truths which need no further explanation or discussion - or, maybe put it this way: do we have a d&d thread for explaining that 2+2 is 4, or that the sun will rise tomorrow? No, we don't. These are facts. To create a debate thread about them would be infantile and asinine. Coming into threads and making claims such as "trans women dominate womens' sports because they have an inherent adavantage" or asking "are trans women women?" is asinine on the same level, while also being bigoted and harmful. So why should we tolerate it? Go learn the basics somewhere else. This is a forum for serious debate and discussion. (*also a valid reason for this is that it turns these discussions into simply platforms for bigots to attack trans people rather than real discussion of trans issues but that point doesn't seem to matter to the d&d moderation team, so I'm speaking along the lines that do seem to matter to them.)
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Apr 24, 2022 18:00
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Colonel Cool posted:I was trying to be nice with my wording. When I say "extremely supportive" what I mean is "does not question any of my positions for any reason no matter how ludicrous they are". There were absolutely people in the trans sports thread taking positions that were completely detached from reality (in my opinion). And to be clear, I think it's valuable to have supportive spaces where people can feel free to express themselves without having to defend anything they're saying. I'm just saying, I don't think D&D should be one of those spaces. Nobody is asking for a space where they don't have to defend anything they are saying. That isn't what anyone, at any point, anywhere in this thread asked for or desired. I think you should read my next post above.
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Apr 24, 2022 18:05
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Colonel Cool posted:It'd be a pretty silly argument to say that all trans women automatically dominate all sports after transitioning, and pretty easy to debunk. I think positing that some people transition in order to get a competitive advantage in sports is a loving stupid argument, and I'd be happy to argue against it. I'd also be happy to make an argument for why trans women are women. I think it's a fascinating question, but then I'm a philosophy major that's written college papers on the subject. It's a pretty challenging topic, and being able to make that argument in a convincing way is kind of useful when over half the world disagrees with it. Saying that it's true because it's true and banning anyone who isn't convinced isn't a great way to make general social progress on the subject. If you're happy to argue against it, then I think you should have a space to do that. The internet is full of spaces that are absolutely jam packed with people who want to make specious claims about trans people that are easily debunked. D&D does not need to be such a place. These questions are on the level of 'does 2+2 equal 4' because they are the very beginnings of trans topics; if you can't agree that trans women are women then you will never, ever get past that point in discussion. If a person continues to insist that transwomen dominate womens' sports then the discussion will never move past that point. How could you move forward teaching someone math if they refuse to accept that 2+2 equals 4? What would be the point of arguing with them about it? If we continuously allow threads discussing trans people to be about these very basic topics then they will almost never be about anything else, and as it has been noted again and again and again, the people "asking these questions" or making these claims are never doing so in good faith - they are showing up to make these claims to harm trans people, and treating their arguments as serious and worthy of consideration allows them to do that.
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Apr 24, 2022 18:42
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speng31b posted:
The problem with this when it comes to bigots saying bigoted things is that if nobody says anything in the thread, and just reports it, then what winds up happening is the poster will get a 6er for bad discussion practices or something, and not for their bigotry. And then the thread moves on and the person was allowed to post their bigotry with absolutely no pushback at all. A probation for not dotting your i or crossing your t is not the same as a probation for being a bigoted sack of poo poo. When I see someone posting something harmful and bigoted, I feel the need to tell them to gently caress themselves with a sideways rake because I think of someone coming into the thread and seeing no pushback against them at all and thinking "wow, this really must be what people think here". There were examples of this in the trans athletes thread as well, where posters being obviously bigoted were repeatedly called out for being bigoted but then were probated on a posting technicality. That's not a good look. But koos did not strictly follow the no posting about posters rule there, because (this is my perception of why, anyway) it was obvious that it was warranted in this case.
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Apr 24, 2022 19:45
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mawarannahr posted:I’d like to see more people pay attention to I think you might be seriously misunderstanding the point of BYOB if you think a thread about tucker carlson belongs there.
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Apr 24, 2022 20:03
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 09:12 |
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Quotey posted:I don't think the people PMing Cool to thank her are bigots probably? I wonder why they're so fragile! There's actually a whole bunch of people who love me and want me to continue posting. They're posting too, just out of frame.
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Apr 24, 2022 20:27
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