|
Cease to Hope posted:It's funny how the New York Times just published a feature on Tucker Carlson. Among other things, Carlson's list of "elites" and their interests mirrors the OP's almost exactly. I wanted to see what the best arguments against my take were. You know how I've said over and over that I have a bunch of impressions I can't prove? I hardly ever see an argument that I think proves something regarding a controversial issue, so I wanted to see if there were some takes that were unconctroversial so I could be highly confident in them. It seems like the counter to my claim is that big donors and corporations lean anti-Trump but not liberal or democratic, and their advocacy on culture war issues leans left but its just lip service. So I'd say its not controversial that big donors and corporations lean anti-Trump and their advocacy on culture war issues leans left. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 16:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:15 |
|
|
toterunner posted:I wanted to see what the best arguments against my take were. You know how I've said over and over that I have a bunch of impressions I can't prove? I hardly ever see an argument that I think proves something regarding a controversial issue, so I wanted to see if there were some takes that were unconctroversial so I could be highly confident in them. It seems like the counter to my claim is that big donors and corporations lean anti-Trump but not liberal or democratic, and their advocacy on culture war issues leans left but its just lip service. So I'd say its not controversial that big donors and corporations lean anti-Trump and their advocacy on culture war issues leans left. Weird how you call it lip service then immediately turn around to say it's not controversial to treat it as legitimate. Seems a bit contradictory.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
there is some degree of honesty in that, as long as you assume toterunner has been sufficiently broken by modern politics that he genuinely cannot comprehend the idea of support that extends beyond lip service. in a world where the best can be hoped for is a PR flack saying 'we see you, we hear you,' without even the implication of 'and we'll do something to help you one of these days' to go along with it, one could honestly say that corporations, the wealthy, and politicians at large lean Democratic! it would not matter to such a person that these words are never followed up with actions, because these actions do not reach them. the words do. despite the fact the words don't seem to be aimed at them. when the only goal your politics has left is to be seen and heard, a political actor advertising to someone other than you is a personal attack.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
toterunner posted:So I'd say its not controversial that big donors and corporations lean anti-Trump and their advocacy on culture war issues leans left. I think it says a lot about where American conservatism is today that you're describing "racism is bad" as "advocacy on culture war issues" that "leans left."
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
The radical leftist communist elites are out to get us. They want a Marxist corporation dominated society.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2022 03:36
|
|
|
quote:Elites are those who have vastly disproportionate access to or control over a social resource From here My original post was wrong to imply that government bureaucrats or the PMC were elites. Harold Fjord posted:Weird how you call it lip service then immediately turn around to say it's not controversial to treat it as legitimate. Seems a bit contradictory. I said their advocacy leans left. Lip service is advocacy. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:there is some degree of honesty in that, as long as you assume toterunner has been sufficiently broken by modern politics that he genuinely cannot comprehend the idea of support that extends beyond lip service. I never said that I agree their support is just lip service. There are the state laws on LGBT issues that corporate boycotts torpedoed. The amount this article claims that corporations pledged to BLM was greater than the combined amount raised by the Trump and Biden campaigns at that point. Cease to Hope posted:I think it says a lot about where American conservatism is today that you're describing "racism is bad" as "advocacy on culture war issues" that "leans left." I suspect that corporations frame their advocacy this way too., which means they are delegitimizing those they disagree with. Lets say you're also right that American conservatism is characterized by illegitimate positions. If elites are saying that 45% of the country has illegitimate politics, that's important whether or not they are right. Plus, censorship and cancel culture are areas in which they're acting on their stated beliefs. The very dubious BLM narrative is not just saying "racism is bad." And cancel culture exists for alleged disinformation, not just alleged bigotry. A lot of the debunkings of specific claims regarding the 2020 election (note: I don't think there is evidence that the 2020 election was stolen) are so bad as to be disinformation. Saying Breonna Taylor was murdered is disinformation.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2022 18:52
|
|
|
toterunner posted:The very dubious BLM narrative is not just saying "racism is bad." But the corporate statements in support of Black Lives Matter protestors have not been anything more than "racism is bad". In fact, they often don't even say that. Where did you get the idea that corporations were doing more in support for "BLM"? What do you think "BLM" is, other than something Tucker Carlson tells you is coming for you? toterunner posted:Saying Breonna Taylor was murdered is disinformation. Do you feel that the police should be allowed to break into people's homes without announcing themselves and kill the occupants with impunity? Do you think this is a mainstream conservative position? Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2022 19:07
|
|
|
toterunner posted:The amount this article claims that corporations pledged to BLM was greater than the combined amount raised by the Trump and Biden campaigns at that point. They were lying and never gave that money. quote:I suspect that corporations frame their advocacy this way too., which means they are delegitimizing those they disagree with. Lets say you're also right that American conservatism is characterized by illegitimate positions. If elites are saying that 45% of the country has illegitimate politics, that's important whether or not they are right. Plus, censorship and cancel culture are areas in which they're acting on their stated beliefs. Corporations can't censor and don't "cancel". Corporations basically say that everyone has legit politics if they can get away with it. quote:The very dubious BLM narrative is not just saying "racism is bad." Well they're also saying that police violence is bad. They're just focusing mainly on the part where the racism affects black folks. There's nothing dubious about their narrative at all beyond white people not wanting to hear it. quote:And cancel culture exists for alleged disinformation, not just alleged bigotry. A lot of the debunkings of specific claims regarding the 2020 election (note: I don't think there is evidence that the 2020 election was stolen) are so bad as to be disinformation. Saying Breonna Taylor was murdered is disinformation. Cancel culture isn't a real thing in terms of being able to "cancel" anything. It's an extremely loaded phrase that basically amounts to "the PC police" or whatever for this point in time. Breonna Taylor was murdered. They just got away with it. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2022 19:07
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:They were lying and never gave that money. Not only that, but about 60% of the money listed by OP's article is a single 1B$ pledge from BoA that was explicitly tied to Covid relief to help mitigate how disproportionately those communities have been affected by the pandemic.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2022 19:30
|
|
|
Hmm yes so yeah anyway please define elites OP, you’ve had a couple weeks to ponder the question
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
Waffle House posted:Your original post loses coherency of point within its structure after sentence 1 of paragraph 2. Agreed. OP should run for office as a republican.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
If the elites dropped dead Humanty would be free from literally 90% of its problems.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
toterunner posted:
And unlike most of the Republican base can also spell their own names. Trump was cancer for a large percentage of the billionaire set because he kept breaking supply chains and doing dumb poo poo that made international pariahs out of US businesses. Further, his negligent bungling of the coronavirus response cost american companies *trillions*. Billionaires skew conservative when it suits their interest and liberal when it suits their interest, but at the end of the day the only ideology the billionaires actually subscribe to is "billionaires". (Remember we are talking "elites", as in the people who actually run this joint, not some coke-rear end hollywood actor)
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
It's funny how op is making a bunch of random rear end statements about the elites having it out for trump and therefore being left wing when trump is actually just the unhinged temper tantrum option on the ballot and democrats are a regular right wing party with a few token left wing social policy bits for feel good reasons. also op, yes, i do think 45% of the us voting public are unhinged and throwing temper tantrums, your society just sucks that much and should become the protectorate of a more civilised country until it's ready for democracy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 09:17
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
The "Elites" hate trump because he's a poo poo business man, yeah. People need to realize that Realpolitik is a thing that exists. The Elites are loving Aliens. They don't feel remorse for their workers, they can't comprehend basic ideas of "morality" that even loving religions invented centuries ago speak up against, and they fail to see that climate change, is, in fact, going to kill everyone, including them. There's another universe where trump never became president, or even ran. Instead it's jeff bozos or whoever owns nestle. And they were just as horrific, and they were just as hated by their fellow Elites. The Elites (I'm assuming we mean megarich people who own corporations) aren't a giant union of dudes working together to strike down the workers, they're a BUNCH of dudes who hate each other, and only work with each other when it's more convenient. When they fight they stomp on the little guys, when they fight together against another guy they stomp on the little guys, when they don't fight they stomp on the little guys for fun. They're a lame version of Godzilla and King Kong, but not actually giant (in size, in ego, even loving Godzilla is more humble than musk) or radiated. They're more like animals than humans in this case, whereas humans have an normal idea of loyalty, they have an idea of self-serving above all us. loving Buddha and Jesus spoke against these sorts of people CENTURIES AGO and we didn't listen. I'm not Buddhist or Christian, but Gods, this class shouldn't loving exist. The sooner we get rid of them, along with Politicians and Land Owners and other types of rapists, the sooner we can get to life being non-lovely for once.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2022 01:59
|
|
|
TheNamedSavior posted:The Elites (I'm assuming we mean megarich people who own corporations) it's whoever you want it to mean, and never the same people twice. this thread is never going to be anything but people yelling past each other and i dunno why it hasn't just been gassed
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2022 03:47
|
|
|
The OP recently posted a slightly different race science thread so I assume this is rooted in the same ideas. Didn't get gas because no one's bumped it since May
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2022 04:06
|
|
|
thread deleto imo
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 02:59
|
|
|
There's been a lot of discussion about how to define "elites", but I'm wondering how to define "pro-democrat". The OP had a long list of "pro-Democrat" positions which included - believing Donald J Trump lost the 2020 presidential election - not wanting rioters to occupy the capitol building and being okay with shooting one to make them leave People that hold these positions include folks like Trump's Republican vice-president Mike Pence. Now it's not really clear how many positions from the op's list one has to hold to be "pro-democrat", although from his large list of cultural enemies it would seem that agreeing with just one position is enough. So for purposes of this conversation, is Mike Pence "pro-Democrat"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 16:06
|
|
|
edit: wrong thread, sorry
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 07:39
|
|
|
I think this could have been a very interesting thread about the capture of the Democratic party by business interests, which are even supporting Republican candidates, but it was just a right-wing incoherent rant. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 16:46
|
|
|
I have a hard time believing that after the Trump tax cut, literally everybody making over a million dollars a year aren’t yearning to get another one and prioritizing that over anything else.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2022 16:20
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Cancel culture isn't a real thing in terms of being able to "cancel" anything. It's an extremely loaded phrase that basically amounts to "the PC police" or whatever for this point in time. "Cancel culture" is just when things get protested or boycotted for left-leaning reasons instead of right-leaning reasons. The only reason it's notable is because in the Western world, conservatives in general get deferred to as a moral authority by an incredibly large number of idiots. Automata 10 Pack posted:I have a hard time believing that after the Trump tax cut, literally everybody making over a million dollars a year aren’t yearning to get another one and prioritizing that over anything else. As already noted, the problem is that that comes with Trump, who did a great job loving up all the logistical stuff bigcorp types depend on. Saving cash isn't as important as predictability, and Trump & co are deeply unpredictable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
Cancel Culture is just the biggest "wait not like that" meme by those who used to cancel with wild, dictatorial abandon from the top of society but have since lost the gavel and the hypocritical immunity Every one of these loud "oh no here comes the woke cancel culture mob" motherfuckers is the ideological descendant of the people who ran code and censorship boards like a loving gestapo, sent theocratic toadbrains to shriek at frank zappa about how the government has to annihilate any music that pastors found obscene, ran literal congressional inquisitions to blacklist unamerican political leanings real or imagined, rigorously scrubbed comics of any affirming portrayal of people of color and had such an aneurysm about the ones that snuck through that Mad Magazine was hate-written in response, etc
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
They're still doing all that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 10:16
|
|
|
Staluigi posted:had such an aneurysm about the ones that snuck through that Mad Magazine was hate-written in response, etc Wait what For real?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 12:03
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Wait what Ohh yeah  https://thecensorshipfiles.wordpress.com/volume-1/issue-1/judgment-day/ quote:In return, the orange robot explains that it is not his fault; the social barriers between the blue and orange robots existed far before he was created so there is very little that he can do about them. Hearing these words, Tarlton decides that Cybrinia is “not yet ready to join the great galactic republic” (7). He storms out of the assembly plant, with his orange companion running frantically behind, and starts back toward his ship. quote:With Judgment Day, the CCA told Gaines and Al Feldstein, the writer of the story, that they could not publish the comic book if the final panel had a black astronaut. For Murphy, the final panel was too controversial for 1950s America, a time when segregation and systemic racism were still accepted parts of society. This story was likely perceived as too critical of contemporary society. This outraged EC and Gaines threatened to sue the Authority. quote:Tales From the Crypt: The Official Archives:
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 23:03
|
|
|
Oh ok I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying that Mad was created by a racist who was mad about antiracist comics.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 00:15
|
|
|
No yeah it was that comic censors were so loving insane and so desperate to kill off commentary on societal injustice that they drove a group of comic artists to go all in on Mad Magazine in response
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
Was that Deep Space 9 episode where it's set in the 50s based off that comic?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 02:56
|
|
|
GoutPatrol posted:Was that Deep Space 9 episode where it's set in the 50s based off that comic? When I watched it I assumed it one hundred percent had to be the case that it was conceived in reference to that event but I don't have any explicit confirmation of that
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
You're absolutely right, yeah. That whole episode is filled with homages to pulp sci-fi authors, complete with a woman having to write under a male pen name. O'Brien's a riff on Asimov.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 05:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:15 |
|
|
Roadie posted:"Cancel culture" is just when things get protested or boycotted for left-leaning reasons instead of right-leaning reasons. The only reason it's notable is because in the Western world, conservatives in general get deferred to as a moral authority by an incredibly large number of idiots. If there's one type of elite we should look more at it's the local elite. The merely super rich people who have the city council at their beck and call, and are just as much of rear end in a top hat to the local poor as any billionaire, and also are local enough to ignore the global logistics that the billionaire elite care about. If anything, they are usually bigger assholes because https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/trump-american-gentry-wyman-elites/620151/ quote:American wealth and power usually have a certain look: glass-walled penthouse apartments in glittering urban skyscrapers, sprawling country mansions, ivy-covered prep schools, vacation homes in the Hamptons. These are the outward symbols of an entrenched oligarchy, the political-economic ruling class portrayed by the media that entertains us and the conspiracy theories that animate the darker corners of the American imagination. And while individually they don't do as much damage as billionaire, there a lot, lot, lot more of this garbage millionaires. For example, in Nashville, Lee Beaman, a four-times divorced car dealership owner, essentially killed two pieces of transit legislation in the six years through personal lobbying. While this damage is limited to Nashville, collectively the many thousands of fat car dealership owners who inherited the dealership from their dad do more damage to US public transport than the far small billionaire class does. Or to put it another way, the medium-sized business owner is just as much a part of modern capitalism as the billionaires, and there a lot, lot, lot more of them. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Oct 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 06:17
|
|
