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Of course I was lying, the best written character ever is yasu
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Sep 28, 2022 06:06
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Nyoro posted:Of course I was lying, the best written character ever is yasu This is umi 7 spoilers for everyone else
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Sep 28, 2022 07:04
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Oh yeah my bad, recently I've just been getting really high and talking about that character for hours. sorry I didn't think about properly formatting that post there e: also the entire Umineko series is 40% off right now. Perfect time and opportunity to Happy Halloween for Maria yourself, or even one of your friends! Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 13:55
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It's Beatrice
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Sep 28, 2022 14:12
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it is indeed the golden witch beatoriche
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Sep 28, 2022 16:07
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<yesssssssssssss I aaaaaaaaammmmmmmm>
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Sep 28, 2022 17:15
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episodes 4, 5 and 6 were kind of jumbled in my head but 5 is so crazy and good, now that I’m rereading it. It really beats you over the head about focusing on the wrong things. Even knowing a pretty key secret (I think?) and knowing that the “why” is more important than the “how” I’m still not seeing the bigger picture. My only specific thought right now is about That Phone Call: I don’t think it matters at all. Most of the family is connected to sketchy organizations, at least one of which we see being hired to dig up dirt on the head family immediately before this scene. Even assuming it’s real - and I’m not checking the red text page just yet to remember if it’s ever stated - it could probably be from anyone trying to put pressure on Natsuhi to try to get her to break and spill the secret about Kinzo. I guess I do have one more thought, about everything to this point overall: It gets more and more overt with its game metaphors, and everything makes a weird kind of sense superficially when you look at it that way. But that doesn’t answer the “why” I’m stuck with.
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Sep 29, 2022 03:22
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episode 5 is the best episode by far
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Sep 29, 2022 03:34
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Nyoro posted:episode 5 is the best episode by far For real
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Sep 29, 2022 03:35
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Nyoro posted:episode 5 is the best episode by far but episode 7
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Sep 29, 2022 04:18
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wait gently caress wait I might actually have an idea about the epitaph I need a loving notebook gently caress
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Sep 29, 2022 05:21
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Cyouni posted:but episode 7 i think it's hindered by the format, it's probably much better in the manga (which I have only read a little of)
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Sep 29, 2022 05:52
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Rockman Reserve posted:wait gently caress wait I might actually have an idea about the epitaph I need a loving notebook gently caress Seriously I'm like 90% sure I'm suddenly on the right track, I understand why they needed an - -atlas - - to solve it, I think I understand why Eva was looking for a six-character reading, I just don't have the knowledge of Japanese (or a helpful witch) to put the pieces together. gently caress. E: the whole discussion about whether sweetfish is a good hint at all makes it so much harder. If it was more literal I would think it’s Oshika or Ishinomaki, which has a harbor called ayukawa. Since Rosa argues it wasn’t a very good hint, though, I’ve gotta figure out what else it’s getting at. It could just mean a clean, inland freshwater river, in which case I’m maybe looking for a town with 村 in its name on the shore of a clean river?. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 29, 2022 |
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Sep 29, 2022 13:55
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Rockman Reserve posted:episodes 4, 5 and 6 were kind of jumbled in my head but 5 is so crazy and good, now that I’m rereading it. It really beats you over the head about focusing on the wrong things. Even knowing a pretty key secret (I think?) and knowing that the “why” is more important than the “how” I’m still not seeing the bigger picture. It's not clear to me from this, but did you finish Episode 6 yet? By the very end of Episode 6, some things should be relatively clear. Episode 7 directly reveals a lot, so post-episode-6 is probably the best time to go all-in on theorizing if you're trying to figure stuff out on your own. There's parts in your earlier posts that are on the right track, but to quote any specific part might give away too much. So the most I'll do is just repeat this - focus on the characters/topics that seem confusing or difficult to figure out. Cyouni posted:I decline to refute or argue because it's funnier that way. Yeah, I didn't respond to anything specific because there's not really any way to do so without unintentionally revealing something.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:45
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Yeah, I finished Episode 6....in February of 2021. Then I started what I had planned as a reread of 1-6 to try to piece it together before Episode 7 just gives it all away, but.... even though it's much more informative and interesting with more context, the "setup" for Game 1 takes loving forever and I ended up putting it down for months just like I did on my initial readthrough. Eventually I did manage to power through, and have been re-reading 2 and 5 kinda switching off depending on what machine I have handy at the time. So I've had the big reveal about the true number of People on the island from the end of 5, and seen Battler's game, though I don't remember much of it at all, and a lot of the later episodes blend together a bit for me. Does the closed room that Battler is stuck in that he trades places with/sacrifices Kanon-who-does-not-quite-exist to escape happen in 5 or 6? I thought it was 5 but it hasn't come up yet. That's one of the biggest things I want to re-examine, since as I stated I really don't understand how that's such a lynchpin to Battler solving everything and becoming the Game Master/Head. I also really want to reread 3 for more context around Eva and Rosa solving the riddle. Could someone also refresh my memory about the stuff Ange says about Mariage Sorciere in episode 4, just in general terms? I should reread them all, but they're all so tremendously long, and 4 in particular is just brutally tragic and yet kind of boring to read through at parts. e: I really like the assertion in 5 that Bernkastel is able to do so much so effectively, including things like just getting her game piece on the board, by using her ability as the Witch of Miracles to loop through shards until she succeeds, which is kind of dark and hilarious in context. Just imagining hundreds of timelines where Erika jumps off the boat and starts swimming in the wrong direction and drowning before finally making it to Rokkenjima and acting all smug like nothing happened. e2: I know the answer doesn't matter as much as the reason behind the question but is my wild guessing re: the epitaph closer to the truth, at least? I feel like if I knew more about what sweetfish/ayu/鮎 are evocative of I'd have an easier time. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 01:36
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Rockman Reserve posted:Does the closed room that Battler is stuck in that he trades places with/sacrifices Kanon-who-does-not-quite-exist to escape happen in 5 or 6? That's in 6. Kind of a broad structural comment that isn't really a spoiler and contains zero plot info but is in tags just to be safe - People talk about Episode 7 revealing a lot, and that's true, but it doesn't explicitly explain everything. There's still plenty of stuff to think about after finishing all 8 episodes, so don't hesitate too much to start Episode 7 on the basis of "I still want to figure things out." It would be extremely difficult to reach a comprehensive understanding of things based off of the first 6 episodes alone.
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Sep 30, 2022 01:52
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here's what I realized after finishing all 8 games: beato is the best character ever
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Sep 30, 2022 02:11
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It took you eight?!
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Sep 30, 2022 02:12
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Gaius Marius posted:It took you eight?! It's hard for me to judge Beato objectively because, and I'm just gonna entire Umineko series (EP1 thru 8) spoilertag this following bit: I feel a lot in common with her because I, too, suffer from myriad gender problems and intense self hatred since birth. It's hard to know where the personal bias comes in when I start trying to decide how I feel about a character like (all of) her Hard to know where it comes in, but I do know it comes in...somewhere.
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Sep 30, 2022 02:51
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Ytlaya posted:That's in 6. Ehhhhhhh, I've heard that it gives away enough that I'm still going to keep poking at the question arcs and 5-6 for a bit - the game just absolutely calls the reader out far too many times to just shrug and keep reading without trying to engage it deeper. Now, more random thoughts and questions: Regarding that being in episode 6: dang it, that means that I don't really remember any of the context around it at all. Is that when Erika kills everyone since she's not the detective, and something about it corners Battler with the red text? Spoilery question about 7, which I haven't read yet: I have a volume of the manga for 7 that I haven't dared to look at, but it has Some Other Dude (Will, I think I've managed to pick up from osmosis?) on the cover, and during the ?????? of episode 6 Bernkastel is asking to set up the game differently for Featherine, 'without love', to see if she understands it all. Does that mean that it's a different setting/cast entirely? Just kind of curious. Also, general question that ties back to Higurashi (so do not read this Gaius Marius): does Umineko have an episode that drops the kinetic VN format, like Episode 8 of Higurashi? Speaking of which, I kind of love that episode/its format but only in retrospect through Umineko and Higurashi Gou/Sotsu, where it's more clear that Bernkastel is weaving together Fragments to find a way to survive. And speaking of the above, I still am kind of blown away how well it ties Higurashi and Umineko together, and how subtly Ryukishi07 hinted at it in the secret ending of Higurashi. In fact, all of Higurashi makes a lot more sense as a Witch's Game like Umineko - Gou/Sotsu is just Lambdadelta using a different piece. Back to explicit Umineko theoryposting, this time about the characters and their motivations. Okay, Kanon's motivations are murky but I can accept that because he is Sir Not Appearing In This Film. Maybe "accept" is the wrong word, more like "shrug and put an asterisk next to his name until I know why he's on the game board at all". Jessica's motivations are hazy if it's anything other than 'being accepted anywhere, whether by her family or at school or anything' but it's hard to tell if there's anything deeper beyond just Rich Outcast Teenage Girl stuff. If Gohda's motivations are anything deeper than a sense of pride from doing his job well, then I've totally missed them. Kinzo's motivations are to find a worthy successor to the Headship and explain the secret of the witch's gold. Beatrice's motivation is to force Battler to understand something, but "what" is kind of the whole point of everything as far as I can tell. Past that, everyone's motivations and characterizations are pretty clear, I think.....except, honestly, Battler himself. In the context of the Games he's obviously trying to destroy the Illusion of the Witch and find a path to a future that doesn't leave Ange alone and miserable for twelve years before getting killed on Rokkenjima, but if you take that as given, everything else about him is a big question mark. Was there a deeper reason for him leaving the family? Why is he back after six years? Why doesn't he - or at least the Player manifestation of him - know who his mother is, and how does that tie into whatever Beato is trying to make him realize? It's all so frustrating, I feel like (with a game board with more locations) I could pretty much run a game of this that's at least superficially correct in Tragedy Looper (which is basically When They Cry: The Board Game), but I still have no understanding of why the rules work that way.
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Sep 30, 2022 04:41
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double post because I have a quick question - is Play-Asia legit? I wanna grab a JP switch prepaid code to get Umineko for it. My Japanese is really weak/bad, but I'm going to be stuck on a lot of busses and planes for the next week or so and I could use the practice anyway. And, lol, that title image for the JP bundle sure looks like it would be spoilery if I could fit the pieces together at all. What all is included in that bundle? The question and answer arcs and the fighting game, sure, but it looks like there's some extra stuff?
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Sep 30, 2022 04:59
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Play-Asia used to be legit, probably still is. The latest console release is of Umineko Saku, which should include effectively all previously released side content in VN form.
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Sep 30, 2022 09:08
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....is Beato a terrible idea for a Halloween costume? My whole schtick is characters from obscure books or movies, so I'm not really worried about being 'recognizable', haha.
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Sep 30, 2022 22:13
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Rockman Reserve posted:....is Beato a terrible idea for a Halloween costume? My whole schtick is characters from obscure books or movies, so I'm not really worried about being 'recognizable', haha. No do it I want to see your golden witch
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Sep 30, 2022 22:16
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Rockman Reserve posted:Ehhhhhhh, I've heard that it gives away enough that I'm still going to keep poking at the question arcs and 5-6 for a bit - the game just absolutely calls the reader out far too many times to just shrug and keep reading without trying to engage it deeper. By all means take your time thinking about it; I just wanted to clarify that it's not exactly a situation where everything is revealed (I was confused about some pretty major things until spending a long time thinking about stuff after finishing the entire game). Rockman Reserve posted:Spoilery question about 7, which I haven't read yet: I have a volume of the manga for 7 that I haven't dared to look at, but it has Some Other Dude (Will, I think I've managed to pick up from osmosis?) on the cover, and during the ?????? of episode 6 Bernkastel is asking to set up the game differently for Featherine, 'without love', to see if she understands it all. Does that mean that it's a different setting/cast entirely? Just kind of curious. I haven't seen if anyone else replied to this yet, but I think it's best to go into Episode 7 completely blindly. It's probably tied as my favorite episode. Rockman Reserve posted:Also, general question that ties back to Higurashi (so do not read this Gaius Marius): does Umineko have an episode that drops the kinetic VN format, like Episode 8 of Higurashi? Speaking of which, I kind of love that episode/its format but only in retrospect through Umineko and Higurashi Gou/Sotsu, where it's more clear that Bernkastel is weaving together Fragments to find a way to survive. And speaking of the above, I still am kind of blown away how well it ties Higurashi and Umineko together, and how subtly Ryukishi07 hinted at it in the secret ending of Higurashi. In fact, all of Higurashi makes a lot more sense as a Witch's Game like Umineko - Gou/Sotsu is just Lambdadelta using a different piece. (very minor Umineko/Higurashi "gameplay" comments)There are parts with minor interaction in episode 8. Kind of similar to what I remember from Higurashi 8, where you're just selecting which thing to do and not really make any meaningful choices. Rockman Reserve posted:Back to explicit Umineko theoryposting, this time about the characters and their motivations. Okay, Kanon's motivations are murky but I can accept that because he is Sir Not Appearing In This Film. Maybe "accept" is the wrong word, more like "shrug and put an asterisk next to his name until I know why he's on the game board at all". Jessica's motivations are hazy if it's anything other than 'being accepted anywhere, whether by her family or at school or anything' but it's hard to tell if there's anything deeper beyond just Rich Outcast Teenage Girl stuff. If Gohda's motivations are anything deeper than a sense of pride from doing his job well, then I've totally missed them. Kinzo's motivations are to find a worthy successor to the Headship and explain the secret of the witch's gold. Beatrice's motivation is to force Battler to understand something, but "what" is kind of the whole point of everything as far as I can tell. Past that, everyone's motivations and characterizations are pretty clear, I think.....except, honestly, Battler himself. In the context of the Games he's obviously trying to destroy the Illusion of the Witch and find a path to a future that doesn't leave Ange alone and miserable for twelve years before getting killed on Rokkenjima, but if you take that as given, everything else about him is a big question mark. Was there a deeper reason for him leaving the family? Why is he back after six years? Why doesn't he - or at least the Player manifestation of him - know who his mother is, and how does that tie into whatever Beato is trying to make him realize? Can't really comment on most of this without potentially indirectly implying something, but I will comment on one thing. One of the ways Umineko "deceives" the reader is that there are a handful of mysteries that you're made to think are a bigger deal than they actually are. At the very least, I think you should finish doing Episode 6 again before thinking too much further. Even though it's good, I think Episode 5 can be a bit confusing and, in some ways, misleading. Nyoro posted:I feel a lot in common with her because I, too, suffer from myriad gender problems and intense self hatred since birth. It's hard to know where the personal bias comes in when I start trying to decide how I feel about a character like (all of) her Even though I have zero issues related to gender/identity, I connected with the character mainly because it's an extremely accurate depiction of the way people sometimes cope with despair and a feeling of being trapped (in my case opiate addiction, and I read it around the beginning of the worst 2-3 years of my life). The cause might be different, but the joyless life filled with extreme fear is the same. In particular, I very strongly identify with the constant reflexive fantasizing/daydreaming, but while not actually being delusional and being fully aware of the reality of the situation (which was definitely the case for Yasu/Beato). The other element I really like is the "bombastic/colorful" tone of everything; taking what is essentially a lifetime of mostly solitary suffering that ended in a complete tragedy and still turning it into something colorful and dramatic. It's hard to explain, but I can't think of anything else I've read/seen quite like it. Most media/art about topics like this tends to either take a serious/dour tone, or an unserious comedic one. But Umineko manages to be both serious and "flamboyant" in its presentation.
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Oct 1, 2022 09:27
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Umineko, surface level kind of thoughts: Okay it’s a huge tragedy that stems from the conspiracy to hide Kinzo’s death, specifically between Natsuhi, Krauss and Shannon, going wrong and getting found out by Eva. Most of the scenes with Kinzo are really Krauss as the acting Headship, outside of scenes where that’s denied by something red. The revival of Beatrice he is looking for is a way to legitimately end up as the heir and Head, while escaping from the curse of Kinzo’s shadow that he finds himself stuck with. Is it mentioned when the epitaph was written (specifically before or after 1984) anywhere?
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Oct 2, 2022 17:52
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Rockman Reserve posted:Umineko, surface level kind of thoughts: The epitaph was written in April of 1984, as per Episode 1.
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Oct 3, 2022 08:45
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Real "happy halloween for maria" time atm
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Oct 4, 2022 19:19
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The only thing you can try to get done today is really the epitaph, at least until the murders start.
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Oct 4, 2022 19:56
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I woke up on October 6th to the cries of seagulls and the crashing waves of the ocean, but sadly (?) my awful extended family survived the reunion and I’m still thinking in circles. Things I’m moderately sure of: (Umineko 1-6) 1.) The epitaph/game is to show something to Battler- something that he’s forgotten. 2.) I’m pretty convinced Beatrice is Shannon, or more like a character Shannon dreamed up. I have very little to base this on other than her real name and the fact that episodes 5 and 6 turn into a romance between Beatrice and Battler, and Shannon is the only option that’s not gross somehow. Less sure but still pretty reasonable, I think: 3.) Genji is Ronove, Virgilia is Kumasawa, Gohda, Nanjo, Krauss and others are All Of The Goats, Gaap is maybe Jessica(?). The people that actually live on Rokkenjima feel trapped by circumstance, and Kinzo’s death brings that into high gear. They all have personas that they project their fears and loves onto. Kanon, being a human who thinks he’s nothing more than furniture, has no such double. I’ve definitely gotta reread 6 soon. Nyoro posted:No do it it’s going to be very Spirit Halloween homespun Pyrite Witch Mildred more than straight up cosplay, but whatever, she’s lived for a thousand years and surely has more than one outfit
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Oct 13, 2022 05:53
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I can't imagine it has any actual bearing on anything, but is the voice actor for the man from 19 years ago the same as for Battler? (Umineko again, obviously) Like I said, if it is it's almost certainly a red herring but I'm awful at most voice actors and I'm curious. e: hahaha, forgot how that played out. But still curious about the VA. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Oct 14, 2022 |
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Oct 14, 2022 05:14
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Oh neat, I didn't know we had a thread about this! I've been slowly reading Umineko since about May this year. My wife has been a huge fan for years, and through them I've already heard a fair number of the major spoilers. (That is, I asked for spoilers; I wasn't planning to read the story myself at the time.) I'm presently in episode 4. The pacing has been frustrating with all the time spent on the new character in this episode; all I really want to see are the murders and the arguments about the murders. I'm told that the later episodes are better in terms of time management. Honestly, I think the new character's plot suffers for being crammed in the way it is. Maybe it should have its own series instead so it could have room to breathe. Overall, Umineko is an enjoyable story, but not quite living up to expectations. From my wife's perspective, it sounded like something incredibly deep and philosophical. To me, it's kind of cheap and schlocky at times. Still having fun, mostly.
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Oct 14, 2022 12:12
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While some people like the whole "commentary on mysteries/writing" stuff, I think Umineko is strongest as a story of characters/relationships (that is told in a very compelling and novel way). It's commentary on that other stuff is fine and interesting, but nothing particularly groundbreaking. Part of why I like it is that it is simultaneously very direct and "bombastic" with its tone, while having more real substance to it than things with more serious tones. It's probably the only media I can think of where my usual response to people coming away with negative opinions (after finishing the whole thing) is "you probably didn't understand it properly" (while being fully aware of how annoying that sounds). My initial response to the VN was actually pretty mixed, and it wasn't until thinking/discussing and rereading parts that it really clicked (largely because the game never explicitly reveals some stuff, and what it does explicitly reveal doesn't make much sense unless you properly understand all of the context surrounding it*, which it reveals to you in a way that is somehow simultaneously indirect and direct/comprehensive through both the "games" and all the "meta" events). * In my case (full spoilers - even if you've had specifics spoiled, do not read unless you've actually finished the VN) I ended the game sort of confused about the Shannon/Kanon deal. The game explicitly tells you that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, but it's easy to come away with some sort of contrived "dual personality" explanation for it (and lame plot twists like that aren't uncommon in mysteries, so I didn't initially think that it made sense to search for more). But even though it isn't explicit, once you realize what's actually going on, you notice that the story repeatedly explains this to you, sometimes in ways that are almost comically direct (and often in earlier episodes, which is why it's easy to miss/forget them). For example, there's the Maria scene in (IIRC) Episode 1 where the other cousins proceed to practically "look at the camera" and explain how Maria is adopting a different persona to express a different facet of herself.
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Oct 15, 2022 13:28
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Umineko has such a powerful "replaying from the beginning after finishing and noticing all the clues you missed" experience , but honestly due to the length you're probably not gonna want to reread it for some time lol
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Oct 15, 2022 14:13
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Something I stated to pick up in episode 2, which gets fully spelled out in episode 3 is that it doesn't matter how much magic you are shown, none of that is the solution to the mysteries. So it feels really dumb--granted it's a minor point--when episode 4 comes around and Battler is clutching his head worrying that there are even more magical cast members running around. We're really going to pretend that conversation didn't happen? It seems like Ryukishi just rewrites his characters on the fly to advance whichever scene he's currently writing. Yes, they all have internal contradictions, but a lot of the time they just do and say whatever is convenient for the plot. I also think that the whole Sea of Fragments plot device introduced in episodes 3 and 4 makes it pointless to have one single version of 1998 that's the canon outcome of Beatrice's game. So there goes Ange's relevance. Edit: This extended fight scene has a lot of meanings under the surface:
Regarding the fourth wall break, who got a worse beating, Goat-kun or that dead horse? So Math fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 15:41
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PSA: Umineko Golden Fantasia is on sale on Steam (but I've been told to hold off until I'm done with the series....right? Are there actual spoilers or is it just stuff like certain characters existing? I know fighting games run the story gamut from stuff that releases without a story mode at all all the way to Arc System Works games where the story mode is a ten-hour-long kinetic visual novel with little or no fighting involved at all, so it's hard to judge. I'd love to just gently caress around in an arcade mode or versus or whatever, unless characters have victory quotes that are like "HAHAHA this is exactly like that time I knocked on the guest hall door and left that envelope!!" or something.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:49
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It's probably not worth the spoiler risk, but it _is_ an awesome fighting game!!! Buy it e: the entire Umineko series is 40% off right now BTW, so it's the perfect time and opportunity to Happy Halloween for Maria yourself or even one of your friends. Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 21:12
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So story/arcade modes do 10000% casual spoiler drop. So avoid that. There's also certain ep8 references in characters...sort of. If you know you know.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:16
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Yeah there's a couple of arcade routes that have full spoilers.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:22
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Cyouni posted:So story/arcade modes do 10000% casual spoiler drop. Nyoro posted:It's probably not worth the spoiler risk, but it _is_ an awesome fighting game!!! Buy it I literally own it already in Japanese on the Switch but haven't fired it up for fear of big visual spoilers, even though my Japanese is nowhere near fluent enough to get spoiled by text or even most voice stuff without me making a conscious effort. Still, a fighting game with Umineko's cast is a hell of a siren song to resist....
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Oct 18, 2022 05:25
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