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Most of the high-visibility mass shootings (i.e. when kids/middle class people get killed) seem to be done with legally purchased guns. But getting killed in a shooting like this is about as probable as by lightning. Not saying this to justify doing nothing, just that this would be addressing a very small fraction of all cases. The AR15 got really popular for these but frankly I don't see banning it specifically or all "assault weapons" achieving much. I'm not a mass shooter but I'd think an SMG like MP5 would be even better for this purpose, and a pair of handguns would do as well. You could argue about "stopping power" and penetration but what makes all of these about equally good for shooting kids is that they're semi-auto and have large magazines. Hence this should be the aim of any attempts at gun control. This will also somewhat address the rest of the gun problem, which is like 90% handguns. Broadly I think you could copy the rules from a number of other countries, in most of Europe they're not at all outlawed, you just have to jump through some hoops. Split into categories from least to most restricted, something like this: Single shot shotguns, bolt action rifles; Semi-auto rifles; semi-auto handguns, SMGs. Maybe except category 1 from most of these:
Guns are a fun hobby but holy poo poo the culture around it is insane. So I think the chance of something like this passing is 0% even though it would let most people keep their toys. But I think this could limit the access of crazy mass shooters as well as the general availability of guns on the street after theyr'e stolen or sold at a show/privately.
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Jun 2, 2022 18:34
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Main Paineframe posted:If someone manages to somehow commit a mass killing using only Yugioh cards and Pokemon plushies, then I don't want to imagine how many thousands of people they could have killed using actual weapons. What do you think Hitler used to do in his spare time
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Jun 2, 2022 19:36
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Cpt_Obvious posted:At a certain point talking about gun control in the United States feels a bit masturbatory. It's been almost 25 years since columbine and it's only getting worse. I'm not saying it's hopeless, but I think the question of "what" to regulate is far less important than the "how". For example, there is a large bipartisan consensus for universal background checks and yet there doesn't seem to be a way to get it passed. What mechanisms can feasibly be used to curb gun violence and how can more be created or exploited? In therms of "how", one idea I've heard here https://openargs.com/oa599-our-massive-gun-problem-what-can-we-do/ is repealing the liability protections that were established for the gun industry. The idea being that even if it doesn't bankrupt a manufacturer, the civil suits could reveal all sorts of lovely behavior that could help build a public case for actually doing somethin.
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Jun 2, 2022 21:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:"Shall not be infringed" is a pretty clear statement. Historically whenever the populace gets disarmed oppression pretty much immediately follows. Even Marx was like "yeah the people get to have guns and never trust somebody who says otherwise." We've had the minorities argument here, and now there was a proposal to tax on rifles and the gun nuts are of course saying how it's bad for the low-income people, check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/v5difq/a_house_democrat_plans_to_introduce_a_bill_that/ Apparently the AR-15 is the perfect home defense weapon and we'd be taking that away from the most vulnerable! Think of the single mothers defending their babies by shooting hoards of home invaders with her trusty AR-15. And now she won't be able to afford it  To be honest I'm not buying any of this at all, all this seems like pure concern trolling. Wide availability of firearms isn't making anyone safer. It's not stopping the government from oppressing people (because the people with the guns are all for oppression). The proletariat isn't rising up in an armed revolution.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:14
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Right, sure, if Trump gets any worse in his second term, I'm certain the leftists will bust out their rifles and go overthrow the government. And it will be good, unlike Jan 6th. But in the meantime, not theoretically, but in reality, what are the guns doing right now for America? In exchange for Vietnam-war level of dead annually?
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Jun 5, 2022 22:59
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Ok guys help me understand, so there are two options here. Either it's possible to achieve something against the government through (threats of) armed resistance, or it's not. I'm confused about the implications of either conclusion that you're getting at. Is one or the other a good or a bad thing? Which one supports stricter gun control?
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Jun 6, 2022 17:17
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:
Yes but how many have been executed for treason, huh?  Sorry but I'm still not really following how this relates to gun control. We have two possibilities:
To me, it seems that in both case we don't actually want more guns anyway.
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Jun 7, 2022 00:00
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Cease to Hope posted:Didn't see this posted. Here's a list of things that didn't pass muster in negotiations with Republicans: Why is safe storage "unconstitutional" lol. And unsurprisingly all of these measures would be much more effective than the ones that made it into the bill.
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Jun 14, 2022 09:07
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Cease to Hope posted:Bearing in mind that I think Heller's wrongly decided: Cease to Hope posted:Those points are broadly popular among Americans in general. I don't know of any polling on the subject, but I don't even think most people know handgun bans and "you must keep your guns locked up" laws are unconstitutional, despite Heller being 14 years old now. I've seen some newer polls shared around recently but couldn't find them now so here's this:  I knew about handgun ban but not that safe storage was part of it lol. Just insane lol. ----------- e: 36 House Democrats roll out a bill to hit AR-15-style weapons with a 1,000% tax that could pass Congress without Republican support https://www.businessinsider.com/house-democrats-ar-15-tax-gun-control-reconciliation-2022-6 Might be one weird trick that the NRA hates. If it's broad enough to cover a lot of semi-auto stuff and high-capacity magazines it might even make a small dent in the shootings. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 10:23
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Liquid Communism posted:I don't think anyone has yet argued that the status quo isn't racist. Gun laws in America are, have been, and likely always will be racist, classist, and sexist on many levels as they seek to reinforce social strata and establish who can be trusted to be armed. Not explicitly, but "we can't do gun control because it will hurt minorities" implies that banning guns would be more racist than not banning them. When this is far from obvious.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:50
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Ok. I'm reading the Columbine book that I think was recommended in another thread. It's shocking how little changed. Eric was clearly not ok, he's been reported to the cops who knew about his vandalism and theft and hate lists on the www and pipe bombs and did nothing. They got the guns by getting an 18 year old friend get them into a gun show and buying another from some guy. Something that as far as I can tell anyone could still do. The cops stood outside and took three hours to clear the school (though apparently that was the SOP at the time). And then they covered up knowing about Eric and Dylan before the shooting. I haven't finished the book but as far as I can tell so far, it seems that their concern wasn't the lack of UHC or their 401k. So I think if teenagers everywhere had easy access to guns, there would be a lot more school shootings everywhere, because teenage depression and believing everyone is beneath you is hardly an exceptional thing. Of course school shootings are statistically not a significant risk, but if it's enough to do active shooter drills, it's enough to address in a more direct way. Other gun murders have different causes obviously but fewer guns everywhere would help regardless. E: just got to the part where the NRA held its convention in Denver 10 days after the shooting 
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 1, 2022 |
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Jul 1, 2022 22:18
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What was that about Denmark again? At least 60 shots were fired, 6 dead and 24-30 injured. I think the main difference with Denmark is that they are going to find out why he was allowed to own a (bolt-action) rifle and fix the issue or loophole so that it doesn't happen.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:02
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Charliegrs posted:I did a quick lookup on Denmark gun laws in Wikipedia. Apparently it's not the hardest thing in the world to legally own a bolt action rifle there. I mean it's light-years more difficult than in the US but that's not saying much. Semi auto rifles on the other hand, that's nearly impossible and handguns are difficult but not impossible to legally own. Yes, I didn't write it in the post but there were early rumors that he's had some violent mental breakdowns which should've prevented him from having a gun. But it's very early on so there's no clear picture wtf happened.
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Jul 4, 2022 23:14
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If we take more individualized statistics into consideration, men should be banned from owning guns.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:54
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Statistics are what matters when determining public policy. I don't see how you could convince someone who thinks "I am the most responsible person on earth, will never let kids or other unauthorized persons handle the gun, have it stolen, pull it out when under the influence or angry or depressed. I will never use it to escalate a situation, and will lways make the perfect fight or flight decision instantly, and when forced to shoot, will have 100% accuracy and not hit any bystanders. When the cops show up, they won't shoot me because I'm clearly To some degree I get it. About 15 years ago my dad was attacked and stabbed and it's easy to imagine that if only he had a gun, he would've been able to defend himself. Buuut realistically? He either wouldn't have drawn it in time (because he was just walking around like normal and not in a war zone), had it taken from him, or, probably more likely, if guns were easily accessible, the attacker would've had a gun as well.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:46
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Harold Fjord posted:This conversation is still not about public policy. - Guns are dangerous - I'm better at guns than John Wick - Would you trust your neighbor with guns? - He's an idiot but I'd rather have a gun myself and then I can shoot him if necessary - What if guns are illegal - He could get an illegal gun - It would b e almost impossible like in Japan - But not 0% so I'm still better off with a gun Since you seem to be able to get yourself into their shoes, what do you think could work?
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Jul 20, 2022 17:33
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Professor Beetus posted:Sidenote: autocorrect kept trying to change gun to fun, but I think that's probably more suited to the politics in video games thread.
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Jul 20, 2022 18:51
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Professor Beetus posted:I understand if there are specific circumstances that you would prefer not to share (in case there are public records of your incident available and you do not wish to provide potential doxxable details, for instance), but the binary choice of "threaten with gun" or "be stabbed" is not generally a situation taking place in a vacuum. I would love to hear more context about what happened and why, specifically, the situation was impossible to deescalate without a firearm.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:22
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Do we need to convince the public? They seem to be pretty convinced. I'm skeptical that there's anything that will convince the hardcore owners, or, more importantly, the GOP, without untangling decades of propaganda. e: oh look: Gunman kills 3 at Iowa state park; shooter also dead mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 19:05
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Looks like the gun control bill passed the house. I know I shouldn't be surprised but I checked the reddit post. It usually seems pretty centrist-lefty and everyone tends to agree that the gun culture is crazy and should be restricted whenever there is a shooting in the news. But here all the most batshit arguments are in full force  https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/wbhsrc/house_passes_semiautomatic_gun_ban_after_18year/
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Jul 30, 2022 12:05
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