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Mulva posted:I mean the reality is that political will to enact gun control never meaningfully developed in this country. What's the big win people point to, the AWB? It's the single greatest loss the gun control platform ever took, because it radically encouraged the gun community to come together and fight for their rights. Democrats have been trying to pass Gun Control legislations for decades but have been defeated constantly because the "core" of the Republican Party refuses budge in any meaningful way. There's plenty of will. Democrats haven't been able to get enough leverage in Congress but with the imbalance in the Senate, Gerrymandering, etc. it's not exactly a surprise either. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 03:04
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Mulva posted:Within your lifetime the Democrats had all the power they needed to do anything they really wanted. Obama had a stacked deck and they could have loving ran with all sorts of things. They didn't because they didn't care. That's it, nobody held them back but themselves. Party leaders in the Democratic party don't consider it a pressing issue, and the majority don't care enough to fight for it. And the general public doesn't feel it's an important enough issue to hold them to task for it. Whereas a lot of people will absolutely single issue go "But guns though!" on the other side. "They would if they had more power" is a lie, because when they had the power they didn't act. They will never act. They don't want to. During Sandy Hook they tried to pass legislation in '13 but a quick search shows me that it was 40-60 with almost every Republican voting against it expect for one. What was Obama and the Democratic administration supposed to do exactly?
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Jun 3, 2022 03:30
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Kalit posted:Once again, anecdote isn’t data. Of course gun control laws have implemented with racist intent. But that’s not the same as “nearly all” gun control laws passing to keep guns out of minorities hands, which is what the original claim. Yea, this claim is just completely incorrect too. The extreme interpretation of the 2nd Amendment was a result of the Civil Rights Movement. In the U.S., Backlash to Civil Rights Era Made Guns a Political Third Rail quote:“The modern quest for gun control and the gun rights movement it triggered were born in the shadow of Brown,” Reva Siegel, a constitutional scholar at Yale Law School, wrote in a 2008 article in the Harvard Law Review. She was referring to Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, the landmark Supreme Court ruling in 1954. “Directly and indirectly, conflicts over civil rights have shaped modern understandings of the Second Amendment.” Basically, they're straight up rebelling. https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1532827061890457600?s=20&t=4IF5bcXwcU-_qIfB_rJv5Q https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1532828865432805376?s=20&t=4IF5bcXwcU-_qIfB_rJv5Q
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Jun 5, 2022 21:34
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Nearly every modern industrialized Country from Australia to Denmark to wherever else has strict gun control yet the highest life expectancy and human development. Look at it another way, you are safer in Los Angeles, California than something like St. Louis, Missouri.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:33
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Bishyaler posted:"It can't happen here" is no longer a persuasive argument after the last 2 years of unprecedented events. The easiest way to tell that someone is arguing in favor of gun control from a position of ignorance is if their entire focus is on the AR-15. There are dozens of different variations of semi-automatic rifles that do the exact same thing. I don't think anyone is arguing for a complete gun ban there will always be exceptions. If folks are genuinely afraid of an oppressive or tyrannical government then they can join a well organized militia or better yet the military.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:36
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Even so, a group of civilians armed with rifles aren't going to stop any tyrannical government in the 21st Century. Simply put, it's a childhood fantasy with example like Vietnam or Afghanistan given when at a tactical level the United Won however political pressure was what changed things. A better example is something like the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising or the Syrian Civil War. And the civilians with guns lost.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:47
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The other thing is that the argument of "how would you beat the U.S. army?" Nothing is certain in war. The point is to make it cost more to conquer or oppress you than the other side wants to spend and increase your odds. The flip side of that is that the American military is also pretty tightly tied to the American people just by virtue of how it works. It's an entirely volunteer force mostly staffed by people who do a stint or two and then go back home. Where do you suppose their loyalties lie? Expect expecting a group of civilians in era of tanks, drones, radios, cruise missiles, airplanes, etc. to defeat an army it is a guarantee the army will win.
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Jun 5, 2022 23:47
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What's the point of this exactly? The United States armed forces in Vietnam were never defeated aside from smaller tactical battles. The US lost due to political pressure back home. Not to mention, North Vietnam was supported by China. A better example is Syrian Civil War or the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. ToxicSlurpee posted:There's a lot more to war than just weapons. Believe it or not but U.S. history actually has examples of the military being called in and then refusing to do anything. During some of the biggest labor strikes the national guard would sometimes get called in to restore order and force people back to work. Sure, but that's far from the scenario presented by 2A advocates. The scenario presented is civilian need weapons to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Not that, "Oh, the soldiers in the tyrannical are going to refuse to fight because they'll see we have guns too."
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Jun 6, 2022 00:31
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Nanomashoes posted:How bout the Afghanis, who also won. And? Why do you think the Afgans won while the Syrian rebels just lost in the Syrian Civil War? Why did the Nazis win in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising? Kalit posted:Sorry, but I don't follow. My claim is the reason that the 2nd amendment exists, carrying all of the "gun rights" arguments, was because of racism. Not the later interpretation of it. Unfortunately, that article is paywalled to me, so I'm unsure of if you're claiming that the 2nd amendment wasn't steeped in racism up to that point or what you're referencing. I think I am agreeing with you. Sometimes it is true that gun control has been done for racism but it is also true that gun control has also been removed/weaken for racism too. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 01:17
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Bishyaler posted:The people in 1/6 lost? Not a single organizer was punished, the rubes on the ground barely got a slap on the wrist, Trump is still living his best life, and they've made the Democrats look weaker than ever. Sure they didn't manage to reinstall Trump into the WH, but they had a great trial-run for future action and they barely suffered any consequences for it. If by some miracle they don't mop the floor with you guys in 2024, they're going to do it again.  https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1533897749573386240?s=20&t=Fp4Xyn3OMyKJXoeSOCzatQ Charged with sedition.
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Jun 6, 2022 23:43
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Bishyaler posted:Oh they arrested the FBI informant? Pack it up guys, Republicans have learned their lesson. Literally hundreds have been arrested. Which way is far away from your earlier completely incorrect claim that not a single organizer was punished.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:33
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Bishyaler posted:Hundreds of *attendees* have been arrested. Not hundreds of organizers. https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1481788200368492544?s=20&t=eQfAKa3HowcuS-xVjZlHBg And investigation is still ongoing...
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Jun 7, 2022 03:51
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Bishyaler posted:Okay, so a year and a half has resulted in 16 people charged (not convicted), none of which were in congress, and not Trump. The entire investigation has led to hundreds of charges and hundreds of sentences. At this point, I'm quite convinced you have no idea what you are talking about. https://twitter.com/SeditionHunters/status/1533279057902804992?s=20&t=qDx_YZpWHE0xo2b654JVvQ
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Jun 7, 2022 04:35
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Jumping in with a slightly different topic, Is there any data on gun confiscation in modern history? I know even bringing it up gets people all worked up but I'm seriously looking for something beyond the generalize response of "It's impossible. Too many guns. Cops will refuse to do it. It'd start a civil war!". Like, how many troops would it literally take to search everyone's home? Or even a majority of homes? And before anyone jumps in and say that alienate half the Country remember that Republicans only represent something like a quarter and even less are armed. The reason I'm asking is because this time to me at least genuinely feels different. It's hard to describe, I don't know why it's now but I feel like Gun Control isn't an issue that's going go away like it did with Parkland. And these events are occurring so frequently that it's going to start having an economic impact - people will stop going to school, events, concerts, malls, etc. if they don't feel safe.
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Jun 8, 2022 01:08
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https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1536013602846560256?s=20&t=HgBgshsmuVIQxFCSPiEuQw This seems pretty good but does this get around the gun show loophole too?
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Jun 12, 2022 19:19
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The Red Flag law may prevent mass shooting. Along with increased buyer scrutiny with waiting periods. In the long run, it's a drop in the bucket but still a good thing.
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Jun 12, 2022 23:49
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