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checkplease posted:I don’t think it’s meant to be Iran. The director talks about how they intentionally made it vague so as to not make it about war. Also of note, Iran does not have 5th gen fighters which was a big obstacle. But also of note, Iran is the only country that still flies F14s. It's not meant to be any real country, but it's a lot more like Iran than Russia.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:30
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Agreed there. It definitely couldn’t be a Russia or China without risk of much bigger conflict. You could probably come up with a scenario where Russia or China sells an Iran or North Korea its best fighter jets, but then they probably would have a stronger defense agreement too. Countries don’t want a someone foolishly leaking their best tech to other nations. So yeah just best to understand as a heist or the Star Wars trench run. Is Maverick both Obi Wan and Han Solo then?
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Jun 7, 2022 22:43
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Hangman is Han
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Jun 7, 2022 22:45
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okay, you know, i really do not think i would call the first or second film "military propaganda".
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Jun 7, 2022 22:47
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precision posted:okay, you know, i really do not think i would call the first or second film "military propaganda". The Navy literally set up recruiting stations outside theaters when the first movie came out.
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Jun 7, 2022 22:53
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Gaius Marius posted:Hangman is Han Oh yeah he does come in and save them from an enemy fighter in the same way. I guess Maverick is like what if Obi wan just didn’t die and then helped on on the mission.
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Jun 7, 2022 22:54
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Timby posted:The Navy literally set up recruiting stations outside theaters when the first movie came out. that doesn't mean the film is propaganda though
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Jun 7, 2022 23:57
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In what universe are the movies all about how awesome fighter planes are and how cool it is to be an elite fighter pilot, filmed with the full cooperation of the US military, not pro-military propaganda
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 02:14
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Maybe it's not as explicit is a better way to describe it? Odd I know, all things considered, lol. But I sorta get what Precsision means. Top Gun, and more so Top Gun Maverick, both feel like they're more focused on the emotional drama/relationships between the characters and any jingoistic display of military might is just a byproduct of narrative context. Like you could drop the emotional core of Maverick's story into a sports setting and it would work I guess? You can't really say the same about a movie like, I dunno, Captain Marvel lol.
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Jun 8, 2022 02:34
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Gresh posted:Just saw it.
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Jun 8, 2022 02:38
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I guess it’s a question of intention with propaganda. Do you need to intend to influence the audience to support your idea? But yes the top gun films definitely make flying jets look really cool. And historically the first top gun was a good ad for the navy.
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Jun 8, 2022 03:27
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i think i can agree that they're propaganda about how cool and right war in general is, i just don't think they're specifically American propaganda the talk about the ambiguity of the villains is what made me think about it
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Jun 8, 2022 03:43
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teagone posted:Maybe it's not as explicit is a better way to describe it? Odd I know, all things considered, lol. But I sorta get what Precsision means. Top Gun, and more so Top Gun Maverick, both feel like they're more focused on the emotional drama/relationships between the characters and any jingoistic display of military might is just a byproduct of narrative context. Like you could drop the emotional core of Maverick's story into a sports setting and it would work I guess? You can't really say the same about a movie like, I dunno, Captain Marvel lol. right, exactly  Iceman isn't a better American than Maverick. he's just a better warboy
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Jun 8, 2022 03:44
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Flying Jets makes Flying Jets look cool. The movie merely captures how cool it is
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Jun 8, 2022 03:45
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Gaius Marius posted:Flying Jets makes Flying Jets look cool. The movie merely captures how cool it is Sure, but also the climax of the film involves blowing up probably a hundred Iranian scientists and government workers. There's not exactly a montage showing all the funerals
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Jun 8, 2022 04:25
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No that's the enemy
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Jun 8, 2022 04:27
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Gaius Marius posted:No that's the enemy Top Gun: Maverick but every time someone says "the enemy" it's overdubbed with "human beings, with hopes and dreams and people who love them"
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Jun 8, 2022 04:29
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Facility was obviously empty at time of strike. And we did see the one enemy jet eject safely at least. GI joe rules are in play here.
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Jun 8, 2022 05:15
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Any depiction of war that doesn't try to horrify and physically sicken you is morally indefensible. Many war films also succeed at being kickin' rad action-packed thrill rides, such as both Top Gun movies. It's ok to enjoy problematic things as long as you're a critical consumer of it, so that it doesn't function as propaganda (for you, at least).
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 05:25
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Any depiction of war that doesn't try to horrify and physically sicken you is morally indefensible. what about when we did war on nazis though
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Jun 8, 2022 05:47
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precision posted:what about when we did war on nazis though true, war becomes pleasant if it's justified
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Jun 8, 2022 05:50
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Top Gun: Maverick but every time someone says "the enemy" it's overdubbed with "human beings, with hopes and dreams and people who love them" The implication is that they were developing nuclear weapons.
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Jun 8, 2022 06:00
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live with fruit posted:The implication is that they were developing nuclear weapons. good point -- people working at a government facility developing bombs wouldn't have families or funerals
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Jun 8, 2022 06:27
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Mechafunkzilla posted:good point -- people working at a government facility developing bombs wouldn't have families or funerals They probably should've thought about them before taking a job building weapons of mass destruction.
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Jun 8, 2022 06:29
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live with fruit posted:They probably should've thought about them before taking a job building weapons of mass destruction. Exactly, war and death aren't awful and don't evoke grief or trauma if the people dying are bad guys who deserve it
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Jun 8, 2022 06:33
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That's what they said when I signed up for the Navy at the movie theater.
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Jun 8, 2022 06:34
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We are not all interpellated subjects of the State, ideology doesn't exist, and we are all sovereign moral beings. We aren't all suffering together on this little rock in space, and the loss of human life in service to the bloody clash of nation-states is not to be mourned. I'm glad we're in agreement
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Jun 8, 2022 06:39
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No one was killed making this film
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Jun 8, 2022 07:00
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Top Gun is more morally good than John Landis films
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Jun 8, 2022 07:04
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precision posted:okay, you know, i really do not think i would call the first or second film "military propaganda". lol. lmao.
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Jun 8, 2022 07:09
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Are there any apolitical films about how rad jets are?
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Jun 8, 2022 07:19
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Roth posted:Top Gun is more morally good than John Landis films 
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Jun 8, 2022 08:08
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It might be propaganda but it's correct and everyone should be bombing Russia
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Jun 8, 2022 10:10
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Sure, but also the climax of the film involves blowing up probably a hundred Iranian scientists and government workers. There's not exactly a montage showing all the funerals Weren't they just blowing up a supply depot? I don't think it was a base or anything; they never mentioned anything about enemy personnel being at the target location. It was like a bunker housing plutonium stores or whatever. [edit] Not saying military intellgence is perfect and has never accidentally bombed civilians, but I feel like the movie goes out of its way to ensure that what the good guys are doing ensures no loss of life on both sides unless absolutely necessary. teagone fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 10:18
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teagone posted:Weren't they just blowing up a supply depot? I don't think it was a base or anything; they never mentioned anything about enemy personnel being at the target location. It was like a bunker housing plutonium stores or whatever.
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Jun 8, 2022 10:33
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mobby_6kl posted:It's like an enrichment plant and I think they never mention if it's manned. I think it's pretty safe to assume that there would be lots of engineers and operators there. Buuut if you sign up to make WMDs, that's the deal I suppose, just like the contractors on the Death Star. Ahh. Makes sense. RIP morally bankrupt scientists.
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Jun 8, 2022 10:35
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Any depiction of war that doesn't try to horrify and physically sicken you is morally indefensible. Many war films also succeed at being kickin' rad action-packed thrill rides, such as both Top Gun movies. It's ok to enjoy problematic things as long as you're a critical consumer of it, so that it doesn't function as propaganda (for you, at least). Thankfully there is no declaration of war here so we can enjoy the cool jets without it being problematic.
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Jun 8, 2022 15:19
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Pro military stuff: -flying jets fast looks cool and fun and gets girls -u.s. justified to attack enemy nuke plant - u.s navy wins and no u.s. people die Anti military stuff: -u.s. navy command willing to create missions where it’s pilots will die. - only Maverick wanted to run mission so that no pilots died. Command fought against this! - death only prevented by a single pilots talent (Maverick) and not smart command decisions -all pilots but Maverick were not able to do mission without his help. -u.s navy command willing to leave a shot down pilot behind. -Maverick is only saved after being shot down because rooster disobeys orders. -navy willing to burn a 30 year service pilot when they don’t like him.
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Jun 8, 2022 15:53
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Mechafunkzilla posted:true, war becomes pleasant if it's justified lmao 
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Jun 8, 2022 16:15
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checkplease posted:-navy willing to burn a 30 year service pilot when they don’t like him. This part actually tracks. The U.S. Navy has an up-or-out policy; you either get promoted or you're gone. Maverick wouldn't have been a captain for 36 years. So the Navy seeing him as disposable isn't at all unrealistic.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:07
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