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checkplease posted:Pro military stuff: exactly. it's not specifically saying the US government is perfect, in fact the general tone of both movies is "leadership doesn't know what they're doing" it's almost as if it's a school movie, where we are shown that the teachers are out of touch with the students
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Jun 8, 2022 17:09
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precision posted:exactly. it's not specifically saying the US government is perfect, in fact the general tone of both movies is "leadership doesn't know what they're doing" It's like an inner-city school movie where the admin are out of touch with the students but the one teacher cares about their humanity and coaches them to pass the test.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:56
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ultimately, it's not a very interesting convo to me when someone says "this fash", i have to be like, "what the point?" if the point is that it shouldn't exist, i'm obviously not gonna engage with that because they're cool movies that rocked my butt, and did not make me stop being a commie if the point is that dumb impressionable people might be influenced by it, well, i have to tell you, i have gotten old enough to realize how utterly fuckin pointless it is to be worried about what stupid people are gonna do
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Jun 8, 2022 19:04
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precision posted:ultimately, it's not a very interesting convo to me maybe it's just interesting to think critically about movies on this, the forum for discussing movies. it doesn't need to lead to some outcome or condemnation/absolution
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Jun 8, 2022 19:07
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I disagree it’s interesting to think about it. It’s really not.
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Jun 8, 2022 19:10
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Mechafunkzilla posted:maybe it's just interesting to think critically about movies on this, the forum for discussing movies. it doesn't need to lead to some outcome or condemnation/absolution "thing is propaganda" isn't interesting. if you want to make it an interesting convo, then hop in.
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Jun 8, 2022 19:18
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"How could someone not be interested in how popular entertainment is woven into the tapestry of cultural hegemony" I think to myself as I turn the page on Gramsci's 'Prison Notebooks' and attain jouissance
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Jun 8, 2022 19:22
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It is interesting to think critically about movies, but Top Gun = US propaganda is probably the least critical “thought” imaginable. It’s middle school-level analysis. The idea that you saw this film expecting anything less problematic than what is was is truly laughable.
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Jun 8, 2022 19:22
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The Kingfish posted:It is interesting to think critically about movies, but Top Gun = US propaganda is probably the least critical “thought” imaginable. It’s middle school-level analysis. The idea that you saw this film expecting anything less problematic than what is was is truly laughable. I think you've got it backwards -- seeing what has to be done in presenting stories like this to make them ideologically palatable is the interesting part, not some idea that the movie should be "better". Like, having 'the enemy' be completed denuded of nationality or even language -- that's fascinating, and kind of an extension of the dehumanization that has to happen to facilitate conducting war in the first place. But maybe I'm the only one who thinks so.
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Jun 8, 2022 19:25
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Mechafunkzilla posted:"How could someone not be interested in how popular entertainment is woven into the tapestry of cultural hegemony" I think to myself as I turn the page on Gramsci's 'Prison Notebooks' and attain jouissance if you want to have an interesting conversation, you have to do more than lazy shitpost, is all i can tell you i'm perfectly happy to have a convo. it did not seem to me that's what you were doing.
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Jun 8, 2022 20:10
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I do find it interesting how removing all identity of an enemy works to change the tone of the movie. You get rid of all the baggage that comes with say True Lies using a Harrier to shoot some middle eastern terrorist. Instead you can focus on the contest or mission or character struggle. I was thinking what would the default enemy today. I guess with Ukraine there is probably an audience again for some type of Russian antagonists. But gone are the times of middle eastern or various Asian enemies.
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Jun 8, 2022 20:20
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Timby posted:This part actually tracks. The U.S. Navy has an up-or-out policy; you either get promoted or you're gone. Maverick wouldn't have been a captain for 36 years. So the Navy seeing him as disposable isn't at all unrealistic. Didn’t know that. Good info. But this is where he belongs. Also a solid track on the ost.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:03
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checkplease posted:Didn’t know that. Good info. I don't recall the specifics, but from what I remember from Navy friends and family, basically if you get skipped for promotion twice, you get discharged, no question (so Iceman's protection is in and of itself a fictionality). So Maverick still being a captain and pilot at his age is ... well, wildly unrealistic and a gimmick we have to surrender to the movie, basically. There's no way 50-something Maverick would still be on active flight status, he'd be on a desk job and nearing mandatory retirement.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:41
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Timby posted:I don't recall the specifics, but from what I remember from Navy friends and family, basically if you get skipped for promotion twice, you get discharged, no question (so Iceman's protection is in and of itself a fictionality). So Maverick still being a captain and pilot at his age is ... well, wildly unrealistic and a gimmick we have to surrender to the movie, basically. There's no way 50-something Maverick would still be on active flight status, he'd be on a desk job and nearing mandatory retirement. I think that's why they went with the Test Pilot angle. Give it just enough credulity that this Skilled pilot guarded by an Admiral would be able to live in obscurity working with Skunk Works without getting forced out
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Jun 9, 2022 01:24
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I could definitely seen him in a jet prototype job, but he would likely be the lead test engineer running it vs pilot. But engineers don’t get to fly fast in dangerous zones. Need more movies from engineer view like the wind rises.
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Jun 9, 2022 01:30
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This movie stole so many bits from Hot Shots it’s kinda ridiculous. And it’s propaganda af, it’s just imperceptible to some because literally everything is soaked in it nowadays. Welcome to the war business, gents.
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Jun 9, 2022 07:16
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ruddiger posted:And it’s propaganda af, it’s just imperceptible to some because literally everything is soaked in it nowadays. Welcome to the war business, gents. i think the problem here is in the definition of "propaganda". a film that casts war in a generally good light is not propaganda i am not a fan of the extremitization of all language. "everything i don't like is fascism" is a joke, you know
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Jun 9, 2022 16:27
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i mean, if the contention here is "the movie lies", why, you did it johnny, you cracked the code. yeah, all movies lie. Batman? superhero propaganda. also libertarian propaganda. nobody is saying "top gun doesn't lie about how cool and good war is". but propaganda requires among other things intent. were the films made as a specific disinformation campaign? no not really. tony scott isn't even american. so. you know. cool your jets! hahah get it 
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Jun 9, 2022 16:30
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precision posted:i mean, if the contention here is "the movie lies", why, you did it johnny, you cracked the code. yeah, all movies lie. Propaganda isn't just about disinformation, it's also about recruitment, patriotism, identity, and ideology. "Uncle Sam Wants You!" isn't 'disinformation'. But to argue that a film that involved a huge amount of Navy resources and cooperation (in exchange for script approval) doesn't at least partially function as propaganda seems crazy. Like, the military are pretty sophisticated, they know that blatant, transparently hagiographic propaganda doesn't work very well. Managing the military's portrayal in culture and entertainment is a major strategic goal for all the branches of the military, they have entire departments dedicated to just that. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 17:24
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Are we just talking about advertisements then vs propaganda? Or does the fact that it’s a state institution advertising make it propaganda.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:01
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hey i'm not the word police. if you want to use the word "propaganda" to include anything that portrays something in a positive light, that's fine. i guess we only disagree semantically, in that case 
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Jun 9, 2022 21:04
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It's interesting comparing Top Gun, which makes being in the Navy look pretty cool but keeps things vague as far as who you'll be killing, to something like Call of Duty, which is very explicit about killing Iranians.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:17
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The only media I’ve seen with a critical eye towards the American war machine have been the recent films of Paul Schrader. Everything else feels as if we’re right back in the immediate post 9/11 days. Like, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Chris Pratt in a 24 reboot.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:28
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ruddiger posted:The only media I’ve seen with a critical eye towards the American war machine have been the recent films of Paul Schrader. Everything else feels as if we’re right back in the immediate post 9/11 days. I'd throw Jarhead out there, in terms of post-9/11 cinema.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:39
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I’m always amazed there is more than one Jarhead
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Jun 9, 2022 22:03
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Adam Driver plays a vet in Logan Lucky, so that's yet another reason to watch it i rewatched The Hurt Locker recently and it held up fine, but it wasn't anything special really strong urge to rewatch Generation Kill though
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Jun 9, 2022 22:37
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ruddiger posted:Like, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Chris Pratt in a 24 reboot. His next big thing is a tactical thriller show based on books from one of those guys who does a lot of promotion on the Daily Wire and right wing talk radio for Amazon Prime. So close enough
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Jun 9, 2022 23:15
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Wasn't expecting a Chris Dorner show
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Jun 9, 2022 23:27
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High Warlord Zog posted:His next big thing is a tactical thriller show based on books from one of those guys who does a lot of promotion on the Daily Wire and right wing talk radio for Amazon Prime. So close enough 
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Jun 9, 2022 23:38
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Goldblum was the modern propaganda for math. His wild and sexy chaos theories!
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Jun 9, 2022 23:48
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It’s pissing me off to no end that Hot Shots isn’t streaming anywhere.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:55
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This owned and my only complaint is it wasn't gay enough. I loved the bold choice of making Canada the bad guys and bombing a nuclear facility in the rockies by using the force
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Jun 11, 2022 09:00
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The two movies complete an arc about Mav learning to deal with the loss of the love of his life, Goose. Also, "this is the only look I've got" to explain his plastic surgery induced perma-smirk.
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Jun 11, 2022 13:24
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precision posted:i mean, if the contention here is "the movie lies", why, you did it johnny, you cracked the code. yeah, all movies lie. wow this is smart- you seem like a good poster
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Jun 11, 2022 13:51
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PeterCat posted:
its tough to look 47 while being 59.
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Jun 11, 2022 15:35
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Starting the movie off with the same song and title cards as the original was an immediate hook. As soon as I heard those bells singing, I knew this was going to be a fantastic film. Legitimate contender for the best sequel movie ever
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Jun 11, 2022 21:57
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No clue who this guy is, but found his discussion on the efficiency of the first 15 mins to be interesting. https://twitter.com/colehaddon/status/1535429093130641408?s=21&t=URsScisaWqqeysFidEDdMg
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Jun 11, 2022 23:42
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checkplease posted:No clue who this guy is, but found his discussion on the efficiency of the first 15 mins to be interesting. That's how a lot of 80s and 90s sequels operated but movies just kind of...stopped? Aliens, Terminator, Lost World, etc. all have that opening structure, but now that we are all serials, they stopped really doing that.
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Jun 12, 2022 00:00
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Just saw this (never saw the first one) and I really dug it! It takes a supremely confident movie to not blare over mixed music during the great third act action scene but Top Gun Maverick is supremely confident and it pays off big time. Nice touch to name Ed Harris’ character Cain, since he looks old enough to be the son of Adam and Eve. Love the man but wowza. BigglesSWE fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 12, 2022 |
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Jun 12, 2022 16:14
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My favorite part was when the kids excitedly point out Maverick has now legally killed 5 people.
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Jun 12, 2022 18:06
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