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ilitarist posted:Lack of balance and asymmetry is fun. Plenty of abilities you use would be extremely annoying if the enemies used them. Yeah, though combo-heavy games like that usually have more abstract systems. RT *appears* to be very crunchy and simulationist where even cover has mechanics for cover HP, cover efficiency and cover efficiency reduction, but if you engage with it as a simulation like it suggests you’re kneecapping yourself.
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Apr 15, 2024 00:38
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Finally finished the game. It's a first Owlcat game I've managed to play fully, and I enjoyed it. I do think WH40k is a bad setting for a story-focused RPG, but the limited scope of this game, turn-based combat and lack of Pathfinder d20 BS made it much more bearable for me. It still suffers from trying to bite too much (planetary management was especially pointless and space battles where meh, navigator insight mechanic should be burned). Somehow I got the ending called "secret" and it felt like I'm following breadcrumbs. I played on the difficulty one step above normal and it was very forgiving, I don't recommend going lower than that contrary to what the game tells - and I've listened to what the game says because PF games where miserable even for someone who knows D&D 3e. It's not really satisfying narratively, and perhaps it's due to mechanics not supporting the narrative. Something's off with balance and pacing. Chapters 1 and 2 feel more or less right, it's the meat of the game. But chapter 3 has a lot of grind and not a lot of story, and chapter 4 has you resolve plot threads in minutes, often without a large scale encounter you'd expect. I'd cut a lot of things out of this game and replace it with something more conventional (planetary management would work better with just a couple events on each colony with proper discussion with advisors; trading system is boring; navigating through the dangerous space means you'd encounter the same very easy fights again and again) but it didn't stop me from finish. Later on you also have a lot of bugs in scripting, but I had more issues with BG3 so I guess it's a new standard for RPGs - allow player to make big decisions even if NPCs later misremember which choice you made. When it hits some sort of Enhanced Edition I will seriously consider a higher difficulty replay, but with lack of side content I haven't touched or visible difference between paths I doubt I'll do it.
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Apr 15, 2024 12:39
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I, too, dislike everything about this game.
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Apr 15, 2024 12:55
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ilitarist posted:Finally finished the game. Sandwich Anarchist posted:I, too, dislike everything about this game.  As for the actual post... ilitarist posted:Finally finished the game. I definitely agree that they toned down the requirements for so-called 'secret' endings with Rogue Trader. Compared to the two Pathfinder games, which had strict time requirements involved, I suspect calling it a secret ending is just a hold-over from the Pathfinder games where if you weren't looking at a guide you were highly unlikely to stumble into usurping Nocticula's plan to become a god on the time specificity alone. I agree that Chapter 3 needs a rework, but I disagree on Chapter 4 at least. Part of why Chapter 4 feels so short is the lack of exploration, because you probably did 90% of it back in Chapter 2, which is probably the longest chapter for that reason. I'm not super thrilled with how front loaded exploration ended up being because it destroys the pacing. I think more than mechanics that let you trivialize encounters, it's this imbalance to how much time you spend in Chapter 2 loving around and scanning planets that destroys the pacing and makes everything after feel weird. I'd even go as far as to say part of Chapter 3's problems is that you just spent 20 hours loving around the space exploration sandbox and now you have no space exploration, no space battles, and no planet hopping. Chapter 4 would probably be fine if they spread out the exploration so that there's still some left in Chapter 4--currently you just have a few "hey return to these places you couldn't complete before" POIs and buggy rumors, which don't feel the same or consume as much time as the initial exploration phase. While I'm here, Chapter 5 is fine. It's a book-end to Chapter 1 which was just about at short. Narratively the game needed to spend a bit more time building up Chapter 5, but overall after two and a half playthroughs of the game, I don't really mind where it goes. The game plays too coy with the clues in the Nomos quests, and unless you're familiar with Necrons you probably won't catch one of the hints in the character portrait of Nomos you only see for one conversation. I think something as simple as a run-in with the assassin early on and a bit more detail on what exactly Theodora was up to with Epitaph could have smoothed the transition. Finally, I think Warhammer needed a game like this. The Only War part of the setting has been done to death. What I think Rogue Trader does well is let the player peek behind the curtain and see what the day-to-day life in 40k looks like. Footfall, Janus, and Dargonus all show this to some extent. There's more emphasis on seeing the artifacts of daily life, I think. Which gives the game a personality other 40k games don't have. Rogue Trader does a good job with telling the story of the nobility and their schemes, showing how funny it is when a mortal manages to befriend a Space Marine, let you dig into the cultural divide between two groups of space racists, and generally get a look at the human side of some really awful people in a really awful world. It adds more depth to 40k.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:08
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Warmachine posted:Chapter 4 would probably be fine if they spread out the exploration so that there's still some left in Chapter 4--currently you just have a few "hey return to these places you couldn't complete before" POIs and buggy rumors, which don't feel the same or consume as much time as the initial exploration phase. Yeah, a big part of this was that I had to travel around mostly explored space and enough time has passed so that I don't remember which parts are old, which have something I can do now, and which are new. I've landed on several planets to instantly remember I've already been there and there's probably nothing more to do, but some other already explored planets had new stuff. The pacing felt wrong cause it was all so rapid. The game was already cool about not having a lot of battles without a purpose after the chapter 1. But in chapter 4 all you have are story mission and companion missions, and companion missions are often resolved very quickly and in an underwhelming way. I'm not demanding a grand shootout in the end of every "episode" Mass Effect 2 style, but here it was like you can solve the purpose of 3 people in half an hour. Also a lot of choices you made especially in the later chapters felt very self-explanotary. Most of the ending slides felt unnecessary, and it's like devs don't really understand why Fallout or Dragon Age did these ending slides. In those games you were relatively small fish killing some butterflies, seeing how it affected the world. In most of ending slides in this game you see "Remember how you did not bomb the planet and made it a manufacturing world? Well it's a manufacturing world. Remember how you decided the fate of X? Well it was Xs fate indeed." Perhaps it's different in Chaos path though. Chapter 5 was fine and I do think it was of the right length, it's just you got a tutorial popup saying that now the rules are different, get used to it, and some dialogue options are very similar, so I expected a longer journey through alien worlds. Also it looked very dumb that Necrons are some unknown technology when I've met them in a side quest in this very game and no one cared. You are right about giving depth to the setting. This makes sense. A game like that would be cool if you'd play as a mercenary or a lower rank officer on an away team. But Owlcat wants you to become a king or a god and this is all quite predictable. If you know anything about warhammer you know how dogmatic or chaos paths work. Iconoclast story is the only one that could actually be interested but as I whined here already you don't feel any friction on this path. Devs are not afraid to allow you to lose most of your team for one reason or another, but for some reason they didn't want characters leaving you for not being fascist. You get some sort of payoff in ending slides but they needed some amazing writing to elevate this payoff above telltale style "Imperium of Man will remember this". They could also do something with colony politics and decisions, but they were almost all just a textbox about some disaster and choices that didn't feel impactful. This game really reminds me of Tyranny, but with good combat and less good literally everything else. Unlike other Owlcat games not-so-good parts are never actually bad and irritating enough to turn me off (except for objective technical and UI problems), and the highs are cooler than what I'm usually experiencing in RPGs like that. I'm looking forward to whatever Owlcat does next, and now I'm going to play a game that has at least some places that don't make you feel miserable.
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Apr 15, 2024 15:45
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ilitarist posted:Yeah, a big part of this was that I had to travel around mostly explored space and enough time has passed so that I don't remember which parts are old, which have something I can do now, and which are new. I've landed on several planets to instantly remember I've already been there and there's probably nothing more to do, but some other already explored planets had new stuff. I thing Dogmatic is at least as interesting because in all other 40k media I've consumed the outcome is very abstract. Oh, I'm executing someone for saying "Emperor" instead of "God-Emperor?" Well there are 1000 more faceless drones. Exterminatus? The most famous game of that is Dawn of War 2 and while Typhon Primaris is a fun setpiece in an RTS, the setpiece boils down to 'wow cool explosions.' Rykad, on the other hand, you got a chance to get to know. You got to meet the shuttle pilot and her fiance, the Electropriests, the serfs suffering through the tug-of-war between the cult and the governor's forces. It feels impactful in a way that less personal genres can never emulate. If you do the 'right' thing by the setting, every single person you met that isn't already aboard your ship dies, and you signed the warrant. If you do the selfless thing and try to save people, you're permanently scarred by the experience and carry the lingering doubts because you know what could come of it (I haven't hit the ending of my Iconoclast run yet). Thinking about the roster, there's not many opportunities to have people leave if you're too Iconoclast. Abelard and Cassia are ride-or-die. Heinrix is there to keep you on a leash and unlike Chaos, being too merciful is just more reason to KEEP him there. Argenta is a candidate, except that you can see shades of mercy and guilt in how she reacts to certain events--she's less dogmatic than her bark suggests. Yrliet doesn't give a drat how you handle mon'keigh affairs, she's a single-issue voter. Pasqal has blue-and-orange morality going on which doesn't neatly track with Iconoclast/Dogmatic. Jae is Jae. That kinda just leaves Ulfar (who I haven't interacted with yet as Iconoclast) and the secret alignment-specific companions. None of them really have reason to leave because you're too merciful, and only Yrliet, Jae, Idira, and Marazhai have a reason to ditch you for being too dogmatic. But as I said, Yrliet is a single-issue voter, Jae is in it for as long as she stands to make a buck and she has a poor sense of self-preservation, while Idira and Marazhai have nowhere else to go.
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Apr 15, 2024 20:25
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It's funny because for me the absolute high point of the game was the exploration, colony management and ship combat. I looooved the ship combat. I'm not generally good at video games anymore. I don't have the energy or the patience to get groggy and I haaaate non-text-based guides. For some reason it really clicked for me and I was trivializing fights that other people were ranting online about being impossible. Since my pre-RT occupation was ship captain it was fun from a role-playing perspective to seek out and dominate naval engagements. Pour one out for the gamefaqs community that used to have comprehensive 100% accurate guides for every video game like 4 months after they launched.
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Apr 15, 2024 20:48
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Eifert Posting posted:It's funny because for me the absolute high point of the game was the exploration, colony management and ship combat. I can’t wait for the first DLC. They’ve said it’s going all in on the ship stuff. While the second is more about the issues that come with managing a trade empire.
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Apr 15, 2024 21:26
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I could honestly do a full game where you just go to planets and have the mini text adventures. Seems like an untapped market for an indie Star Trek clone.
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Apr 16, 2024 02:03
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CottonWolf posted:I can’t wait for the first DLC. They’ve said it’s going all in on the ship stuff. While the second is more about the issues that come with managing a trade empire. Janissary Hop posted:I could honestly do a full game where you just go to planets and have the mini text adventures. Seems like an untapped market for an indie Star Trek clone. I mentioned it above, but I'd pay good money for a secret 3rd DLC dealing with the Genestealer Cults (the fact that they're relegated to the Dargonas colony events and the Wasteland Wanderer is criminal), and I know a LOT of folks would dump their checkbooks for a DLC that had Ork Freebootas in it in any capacity.
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Apr 16, 2024 02:13
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Considering all the DLC that Wrath got despite being a 3.5 spinoff, I doubt Owlcat would half-rear end the DLC for an IP like 40K.
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Apr 16, 2024 03:18
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I would not describe any of the Pathfinder DLC as half rear end it was, in fact, a whole rear end of poo poo that no one wanted. It's finally sunk in, so it seems, that people don't want what the actual company employees really want to play. It really is a bunch of grog game nerds getting too excited to make the stuff they always wanted at an unreasonable expense of their own time and money. Major additions to the game for character classes and abilities often broke in so many places that some things were just left non-functional. Someone described their coding and development for a single new cleric archetype, Separatist, requiring them to duplicate the entire priest spell/abilitiy tree to make it work, as a task so insane for so little benefit you'd probably get fired for it at most companies.
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Apr 16, 2024 05:52
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Janissary Hop posted:I could honestly do a full game where you just go to planets and have the mini text adventures. Seems like an untapped market for an indie Star Trek clone. Have you heard of Space Rangers HD?
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Apr 16, 2024 07:07
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pentyne posted:I would not describe any of the Pathfinder DLC as half rear end it was, in fact, a whole rear end of poo poo that no one wanted. It's finally sunk in, so it seems, that people don't want what the actual company employees really want to play. good for them. i personally think it sucks rear end but im happy for them
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Apr 16, 2024 08:02
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Jack Trades posted:Have you heard of Space Rangers HD? It's a great game but it's more like Pirates! or Elite or something. The main story is literally fighting a war against genocidal invaders, but text quests on the planets are really a joy. It's not a space hero simulator, it's a space convict simulator. More people should play this to realize how cool can systemic RPGs be and what Bethesda tries to make. Eifert Posting posted:It's funny because for me the absolute high point of the game was the exploration, colony management and ship combat. I liked the exploration well enough. Colony events were a let down. I'd expect proper discussions like in WotR and dilemmas, but you don't really care about colony stats and it all feels diminished by the fact that it's all a 1 screen of text, not even one of these book frames with an illustration. Some of the situations are col and would have worked well if you'd have to inquire more about it, but as it is it's just "from the depth of the planet comes an attack by some horrible creatures, they kill and kill and we don't know what they are" - "Fine, Abelair, what do you think we should do?" - and then Abelair says something sensible and everything is resolved. A let down with both exploration and colony management was horrible UI if you use controller. The controller scheme is actually fine most of the time, on par with BG3. When I played PF WotR on Steam Deck I switched to keyboard and mouse emulation cause controller scheme there wasn't great. But here it only infuriates you in *some* parts of the game.
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Apr 16, 2024 08:23
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pentyne posted:I would not describe any of the Pathfinder DLC as half rear end it was, in fact, a whole rear end of poo poo that no one wanted. It's finally sunk in, so it seems, that people don't want what the actual company employees really want to play. They're definitely in dire need of leadership that can properly wrangle them, but I can't complain too much since Kingmaker, Wrath, and Rogue Trader all scratch particular CRPG itches I have, and all honestly do it better than Baldur's Gate 3 did. Not for lack of polish on Baldur's Gate, I just don't have much in the way of patience for Illithid plots. No, really. That's my beef. Don't care for the main antagonists. Would have preferred a game exclusively about loving with Raphael's schemes.
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Apr 16, 2024 09:19
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My beef with PF games is they look like they deliberatedly added unfun elements to a game that I could otherwise replay as many times as I've replayed any Obsidian game. I'm sure even fans of these games can list parts of the game that do not spark joy. Rogue Trader has very little of these elements and they never irritate me (except for navigation insight BS that made me cheat, and it's telling that cheat mod is the most popular mod for all Owlcat games). I had fun with BG3 but I find d20 progression systems - both for character and equipment - to be extremely boring, and Larian is inept at worldbuilding so it felt like a step back from Divinity Original Sin 2 in every single regard to me, including visuals, somehow. RT takes some steps back from WotR in terms of variation of paths both narrative and gameplay wise, but a game I can enjoy once till the end is worthy more to me that a game like WotR that I could potentially play 9 times but couldn't stomach a single playthrough. Warmachine posted:Thinking about the roster, there's not many opportunities to have people leave if you're too Iconoclast. Abelard and Cassia are ride-or-die. Heinrix is there to keep you on a leash and unlike Chaos, being too merciful is just more reason to KEEP him there. Argenta is a candidate, except that you can see shades of mercy and guilt in how she reacts to certain events--she's less dogmatic than her bark suggests. Yrliet doesn't give a drat how you handle mon'keigh affairs, she's a single-issue voter. Pasqal has blue-and-orange morality going on which doesn't neatly track with Iconoclast/Dogmatic. Jae is Jae. That kinda just leaves Ulfar (who I haven't interacted with yet as Iconoclast) and the secret alignment-specific companions. It's not that I demand that character just leave you if you don't do enough public hangings, it's just supposed to be some sort of friction there. Cassia is a person who wonders why don't you cut your servants' vocal chords, she's totally into a culture of strong heirarchy and outside of some remarks she doesn't really care. I'd expect that every character except for Idira would say that they're not OK with what are you doing on some of the paths. Maybe there should be an extra-easy option to persuade/frighten them, but also an option to let them go or sacrifice them to the blood throne. The game already gives you plenty opportunities for that, and I think this is the biggest part where it underdelivers narratively. Till the ending slides you might not even realize you're considered especially merciful/dogmatic (there's a scene in the beginning of chapter 4 that I guess tells you on which path are you, but in case of Iconoclast at least it doesn't look significant). The chapter 3/4 flow makes it especially obvious: the game give you numerous opportunities to get rid of several companions, if you didn't do that you get an intervention scene from Heinrix and Argenta. It looks like a big moment where things might get heated and maybe your past actions will come into play, maybe you'll have to be extra-persuasive to keep everyone aboard your plan. But no, it's just resolve with a handwave. It'd work better if the companions never left without your direct input but spoke their mind about your path, and instead it simultaneously looks like companions do not care at all and also you might lose most of the companions with a throwaway conversation option. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 10:01
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ilitarist posted:My beef with PF games is they look like they deliberatedly added unfun elements to a game that I could otherwise replay as many times as I've replayed any Obsidian game. I'm sure even fans of these games can list parts of the game that do not spark joy. Rogue Trader has very little of these elements and they never irritate me (except for navigation insight BS that made me cheat, and it's telling that cheat mod is the most popular mod for all Owlcat games). I had fun with BG3 but I find d20 progression systems - both for character and equipment - to be extremely boring, and Larian is inept at worldbuilding so it felt like a step back from Divinity Original Sin 2 in every single regard to me, including visuals, somehow. After recruiting Marazhai (worth it for Ulfar, Yrliet, and Abelard's reactions when you do it. "Troll balls... you're not joking." "Welcome to our fraternity of the perplexed...") and dealing with at least some of the immediate fallout (still need to finish the last mile of Chapter 3, but Ulfar and Argenta absolutely tried to lynch him) I can kinda see your point. Namely that it isn't really clear what the breaking points are and what exactly people will put up with silently because you have the almighty Warrant. The Warrant buys you a LOT of leeway, and gives you a lot of power over your companions. And the problem with friction is that it already exists, but adding more friction would add dissonance because there's only so far your companions can take the complaint before they either put up (mutiny, go awol, or otherwise get discharged) or shut up (what they do now). There's a shadow of 'they learned to shut up about it because the boss isn't going to change' with quite a bit of their reactions. They can't justify a mutiny because you have the I Do What I Want permit signed by Big E, so unless it is literal Chaos worship (what actually triggers the leavers to leave in a Heretic playthrough) they can't justify it in a way that won't get them killed by the first person to learn the truth. If they say "drop me off at the next port" and you say "no," they don't have a recourse--for most of them they're at your mercy if you really decide to throw your weight around. So much like me and my boss IRL, they learn to shut up about things because it's not going to go anywhere. Once they're not under your thumb anymore (the Epilogue), they can go back to doing what they believe in their own stories. Admittedly I DO wish there was a mutiny in the Chapter 3/4 transition because that would sell how problematic your choices are to these people, and would force you to make some choices. But it would also very much stretch how far your companions' power really goes. If they kill you and the circumstances are revealed, shy of Calcazar pardoning them they're absolutely turbofucked. The other Rogue Traders won't shelter them because they put one in your back, how long until they put one in theirs? But they also have no way to compel you to do anything--they're in your house at your pleasure and going AWOL is only slightly less risky than mutiny. I won't know the exact outcome of the Heretic mass exodus until I do a Heretic run, but I doubt it's pretty--at least there they have justification that you're clearly beyond the bounds of what the Warrant permits you to do.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:40
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Argenta gets the worst of it because there's no reason she would stick around with a heretic RT past Act 3. She would arguably follow an Iconoclast since mercy and love for the weak is something she feels very strongly about even though she shouldn't. It probably all comes back to their planned party loyalty/corruption mechanic plus Argenta as a planned romance that was removed mid development as GW made their bold declaration that Sisters of Battle don't fall in love or get corrupted to Chaos.
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Apr 16, 2024 17:50
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pentyne posted:It probably all comes back to their planned party loyalty/corruption mechanic plus Argenta as a planned romance that was removed mid development as GW made their bold declaration that Sisters of Battle don't fall in love or get corrupted to Chaos. Pretty sure there is at least one married Sister of Battle in Ciaphas Cain books and 100% there is at least one Sister in lore who willingly turned to Chaos - Miriel Sabathiel or something like that, fell to Slaanesh because of course it had to be Slaanesh
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Apr 16, 2024 17:58
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Loads of Sisters have fallen to Chaos through warp nonsense over the years. It’s just that it’s very rare that they fall willingly.
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Apr 16, 2024 18:56
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It was apparently something they sprung on Owlcat late in the development and kind of screwed up their plans for Argenta specifically. Probably one of those things where the major point of contact company rep didn't really care and then a higher up read some design documents and then made a big deal about it.
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Apr 16, 2024 19:17
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CottonWolf posted:Loads of Sisters have fallen to Chaos through warp nonsense over the years. It’s just that it’s very rare that they fall willingly. Back in my 40k days I had an idea for Adepa Sororitas chapter that got cut off from the rest of of Imperium and got corrupted by Khorne while still believing themselves to be loyalist, with battlecries like "Blood for the Blood Emperor" and "Skulls for the Golden Throne". Because to be fair, even loyal Sisters are all about "maim, burn, kill (the heretic)"
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Apr 16, 2024 19:36
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clearly the train of thought was that if argenta was a romance option then no one would ever romance anyone else and heck i respect that
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Apr 16, 2024 20:08
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cuntman.net posted:clearly the train of thought was that if argenta was a romance option then no one would ever romance anyone else and heck i respect that But the gills.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:08
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cuntman.net posted:clearly the train of thought was that if argenta was a romance option then no one would ever romance anyone else and heck i respect that I can fix her.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:50
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cuntman.net posted:clearly the train of thought was that if argenta was a romance option then no one would ever romance anyone else and heck i respect that Yrliet exists, and is IMO one of the best romance options in games in general and not because I'm not just ace/aro biased but because you get so much cool lore from it. Cassia is a close second for "what if someone actually formed all their interpersonal expectations from reading Victorian Romance books?" edit: Well this is the dumbest bit of math I've seen in game. I never looked at the Concentrated Fire stats before because they were an auto-pick for my Argenta build... but now I'm looking at it on Ulfar and... why convert from BS to BS bonus and then back again? Why not just take the whole BS? Is it really so critical that you shave off the ones digit and only advance the bonus on tens? 
Warmachine fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 17:35
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ilitarist posted:I can fix her. Argenta is perfect as she is 
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Apr 17, 2024 23:47
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Warmachine posted:Yrliet exists, and is IMO one of the best romance options in games in general and not because I'm not just ace/aro biased but because you get so much cool lore from it. I like Jae a lot too, especially if you bring her to Commoragh and get the background of her life there. And that’s not even mentioning the alien bear she gives you
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Apr 18, 2024 00:26
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Yeah, Jae is good and has an understandable case of impostor syndrome. Argenta is still my fave, though. If only she were romanceable and I could break things off with these filthy xenos.
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Apr 18, 2024 00:58
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I unironically enjoy Heinrix's "intensely repressed but bursting at the seams with horny" romance. I can make him worse.
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Apr 18, 2024 09:41
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Which boys can you date from the crew? I'm on chapter 5 an really really feeling like getting to the end of this is a slog.
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Apr 18, 2024 10:10
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wiegieman posted:They're both referencing an Asterix plot ("The Place that Drives you Mad") Buddy read the first post I made about it.
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Apr 18, 2024 13:48
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RedSky posted:Which boys can you date from the crew? I'm on chapter 5 an really really feeling like getting to the end of this is a slog. Heinrix, and the guy Heinrix shows concerning restraint by choosing not to murder on sight
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Apr 18, 2024 13:57
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Heinrix, and the guy Heinrix shows concerning restraint by choosing not to murder on sight At least Argenta and Ulfar try! Heinrix just tut-tuts about it. Hell, you get more pushback from the random Voidsmen and Enforcers that help you deal with Marazhai's first experience with Warp travel. I'm gonna rationalize this by saying a combination of my choices plus Heinrix's boss's choices go into this. All this to say is that the folks attracted to males are a bit stiffed, I think. Lady enjoyers get Cassia, Yrliet, and Jae to choose from. I consider that 3 to 1 because you PROBABLY shouldn't be ever thinking about making a deal with Marazhai in the first place, considering Drukhari are arguably Chaos but without all the cool sorcery to justify the choice--and they're not sharing Haemuculi tech with a filthy mon-keigh willingly. Drukhari and Tyranids are my always shoot on sight factions.
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Apr 18, 2024 14:25
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Warmachine posted:
Eh, Dark Eldar can stop being pain-vampires by going to exodite or craftworlds. They're a real "nurture over nature" ilk. Vanishingly few do because they're brought up in one of the few places that rival the Warp for worst place in the 'verse. I personally find Chaos more in need of extirpation on sight because it gets its funk into everything and you can't ever make any type of deal with it. That's true despite my belief that Drukhari culture is worse than Chaos because the Dark Eldar chose it willingly. Tyranids have to be shot on sight, not because they're evil but because they're incompatible with anything else. The same is probably true with Orks, but Orks are awesome and Tyranids are kinda boring albeit also terrifying.
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Apr 18, 2024 15:07
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older lore was significantly more relaxed re: the possibility of cooperation with orks, with them cropping up fairly frequently as mercenaries and the like it's a little incongruous with the whole "if a single ork ever dies on your planet, their death spores mean the planet is just going to have orks forever" thing, with all that implies for the locals, but honestly it beats "genocide is the correct answer, actually" and i'd lean into it if i were writing a 40k ttrpg campaign or something Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 18, 2024 |
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Apr 18, 2024 15:44
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Freebooterz were playable in the tabletop version of Rogue Trader and are the main ork campaign in Dawn of War 2. So not really that much older.
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Apr 18, 2024 15:58
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I think Orks are a pretty low level problem in a bunch of places, Sure in the long run a dead ork will end up spawning a sprawling fungal biome if there's no intervening events, but just local scavengers and mycovores eating the bodies/fungal blooms reduces that a lot before it gets advanced enough for snotlings to spawn. And that's without any sophont species around cleansing the area with fire. They're an invasive species, but they're not, like, kudzu. I do want more Ork mercs, though. Just about every army should be allowed to add some freebooters as auxillaries in tabletop. Sure, you'll never see them with Tyranid and almost never with some of the other factions, but "all of a sudden, a mob of boyz!" would be real fun if you think you're fighting Tau and only Tau.
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Apr 18, 2024 15:58
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You can't have much deep conflict with the Orks in 40k setting. The Orks have already won.
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Apr 18, 2024 19:41
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