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I find 40k way easier to deal with if you treat it like a cheap summer blockbuster. It's tons of flash and explosions but at the end of the day it's the junk food of junk food sci-fi. This isn't Lord of the Rings or Star Trek or Dune or what have you. This is Michael Bay Transformers.
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Jun 5, 2022 05:46
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Lady Radia posted:sorry im sure i'm coming off more argumentative than i intend. my takeaway from that sort of description is just that it's.. another really grimdark "look how GRITTY our storytelling is" sort of thing, where people take the piss out of it occasionally, and that it's as a result.. just kind of skindeep. i dunno. There are evil Chaos marines call Noise Marines who shoot blasts of energy by using guitars that were turned into plasma rifles, or maybe it was magic and their sick riffs just set the air on fire. Official game rules allow for red painted Ork machines to move faster because all the Orks collectively believe red things go fast. A huge amount early on had been in service to what they perceived would make it attractive to spend $60 on 5 plastic miniatures you had to assemble and paint yourself. From early on there was always sense of not taking it too seriously especially when they would constantly reference real world people like a massive Ork warboss named after Margret Thatcher. A massive, massive portion of the "lore is serious" comes from the book sales, which didn't really take off into mainstream until 2006 with the Horus series, set in 30k, is the super serious dark and gritty epic saga of revenge and war. Around the same time GW began letting go on their IP license after having been super restrictive on what they would allow to be made. A lot of W40k stuff has come out in the last 15 years that does make it look and a serious grim darkness of war, but that was mostly to sell a video game or book series, and has created that sense that it's a grim, humorless setting.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:06
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Lady Radia posted:so a random question ima drop in here - there were tons of lore dumps in the Pathfinder CRPG thread, which is fine, but i was getting tons of mixed messages from them. a lot of the same posters who loved the lore and detailed the sci-fi setting and poo poo also said that 40k was a satire and you're never supposed to take it seriously and that it's funny. and i just don't really understand what folks get out of the setting as a result, I think. Warhammer Fantasy did a mix of playing it straight and being pretty corny that I liked, but also was clearly not just trying to be a cartoon. (except ofc when it was and it owned). is the lore cool and engaging, or satire and silly? For me, part of what I like about 40K is that when done right, its grimdark goes and loops from 'STUPID AWESOME loving METAAAL  ' to cosmic horror story to existential horror pretty constantly, which are themes that I love.STUPID AWESOME loving METAAAL is when you have 8-foot tall literal demigods hacking and slashing away at each other with chainsaw swords, and also at least one of those sides is possessed by daemons. It's when completely normal, unaugmented human beings face down those demigods with nothing more than guts and gumption, their own weapons and armour being so weak the fanbase describes it as 'the t-shirt and flashlight combo'. It's when armies of the two face off on a doomed planet, and even as said planet cracks open, both sides are still fighting. The cosmic horror story comes in when your heroes face off against enemies that are far too large in actual size, power and even scope to properly fight; no JRPG heroes killing gods here (though the Chaos Gods will certainly encourage that kind of hubris). It's when even the greatest and best of our heroes are nothing compared to the outside forces that have molded them into the roles they are compelled to play, whether that be the mundane forces of an oppressive fascist theocracy, or the supranatural forces and mocking laughter of thirsting gods. The existential horror comes in when you realize that all things considered, the current state of things in 40K- the fascist theocracy, the endless (and sometimes literal) hellwars, the dying light of sapient life- is actually the best outcome for all the sons involved considering the mistakes their fathers made in the past. It is realizing that so much of what we consider immutable moral principles are themselves social constructs, because given the right circumstances, planetary genocide might be the objectively moral decision to make- and it might be an opinion held even by the people upon whom the genocide is being committed. It is the dawning knowledge that as much as 40K is a fantasy built from satire, in-jokes and 80's shitposting, it is also a frightening mirror as to what we could become if we're not careful, and is surprisingly more subtle and even-handed in this regard than the Star Wars prequels and newer Star Trek series (though I'm actually of the opinion that some anvils need to be dropped). That said, it's not all doom and gloom, believe it or not. There are good people in the Imperium trying to live their lives and do their duties as best they could within the culture they were raised in. There are significant victories, at least from a personal scale- you know the whole 'saving the world' trope? That happens every day in 40K, it's just that set against the backdrop of a galaxy at war, a world here and there doesn't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things- but it does matter to the billions whose world has been saved. Even death doesn't need to be grimdark- sometimes, just surviving longer than you are expected to is enough, and is a more narratively satisfying ending than 'they all saved the world with the power of friendship and lived happily ever after, the end!'. It's a universe where the smallest sparks of kindness and heroism are magnified even greater because they occur in such grimdarkness. Bringing it back to Rogue Trader, I can see why Owlcat chose to go with this line as opposed to the more 'in-theme' games like Dark Heresy (where you play an Inqusitorial squad), Only War (where you play a bunch of Guardsmen) or even Deathwatch (where you play the game's poster boys, the Space Marines). The life of a Rogue Trader is the life of an Imperial citizen writ large- you are richer than planetary governors, have more overt power and resources than most Inquisitors, along with the firepower and freedom to act than some Marine chapters, combined with a degree of freedom that a very, VERY rare few enjoy. It's a good stepping stone into the universe proper, and I hope it does well so we can get a Black Crusade game down the line 
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Jun 5, 2022 06:06
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ok i think im sold on the fun part of the setting by "orks painting their motorcycles red get a speed bonus and also they're space motorcycles". holy fuckballs
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Jun 5, 2022 06:16
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Lady Radia posted:ok i think im sold on the fun part of the setting by "orks painting their motorcycles red get a speed bonus and also they're space motorcycles". holy fuckballs Yeah, Orks are the funnest part of the setting- depending on how you read them or the writer themselves, they're either the only faction that gets the joke of 40K, or just doesn't give a gently caress. They're here to have fun, krump gits, and GO FASTAAAAA WAAAAAGH!  
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Jun 5, 2022 06:22
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Like there are a few legitimately well written stories in the setting, and there are the occasional bits of depth here or there. I always find it amusing that the entirety of the Horus Heresy kicks off primarily because the Emperor gives Lorgar poo poo for worshiping him as a god. That's it, that's the actual starting point of it all. And after everything is over and it all shakes out after the heresy? The secular humanism of the Imperial Truth is put away and the Emperor is worshiped as a god, while the religion formed around that idea is based on the writings of......Lorgar, first traitor Primarch. All that fighting to end up back where we started. So they have a large cast of characters, many of them interesting, and the setting does things you can go deep on.....but you also just has some silly poo poo. Or some times they get a bit tryhard and go too grim. Because it's been like decades and they've done a whole lot with the setting over the years. I would say the current GW is "Mostly good I guess, certainly trending on the right side of things". AoS is good, and the new HH seems good, and 9 is perfectly fine.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:24
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Dawn of War 2 was a excellent game series for a taste of how good W40k stuff works. The last game in that series was Retribution, where you picked 1 of 6 factions to pursue their quest line for. The questlines were Chaos: Fulfill a promise to the dark gods in pursuit of epic revenge Tyranids: Rebuild your shattered hive and feast on the flesh of your enemies to grow stronger Eldar: Follow the leads of an ancient prophecy to fight a hero who brings light to the darkness Space Marine: A tale of honor and doubt as two brothers clash in their mission to restore the integrity of their chapter Imp Guard: Gather intel, defend against the hordes of evil, the Emperor protects Orks: That man has a fancy hat. Get his fancy hat.
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Jun 5, 2022 06:29
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CommissarMega posted:Yeah, Orks are the funnest part of the setting- depending on how you read them or the writer themselves, they're either the only faction that gets the joke of 40K, or just doesn't give a gently caress. They're here to have fun, krump gits, and GO FASTAAAAA WAAAAAGH!
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Jun 5, 2022 06:32
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Lady Radia posted:so see im not sure im following again! im struggling with the inconsistencies here i guess lol. cause your post was all about how good it was at serious stories, and how they clashed with deep and topical themes. Whoops, my bad! I think you can put the Orks in the STUPID AWESOME loving METAAAL section of my post- one of the dumb-yet-awesome things that just makes the dopamine flow as you read about these green-skinned football hooligans just going around and wrecking poo poo. And then you pick up another novel and it's all about how hard it is to enforce a single, universal standard of law in a universe where those at the top can choose to subvert it at will, and the lower classes cannot live with said standard as applied. 40K's a trip, I'll tell you what! DIT: pentyne posted:The last game in that series was Retribution, where you picked 1 of 6 factions to pursue their quest line for. The questlines were You forget the best part- the Inquisitor with the fancy hat basically tried to bribe the Orks with a fight, offering up three entire regiments of Guardsmen (around 30,000 - 150,000 men, depending on the regiments) to be slaughtered at the Orks' hands. The Warboss then said he'd accept, but only if the Inquisitor threw in her hat as well. And what is the Inquisitor's response? "CERTANLY NOT, GREENSKIN!" That's 40K, comedy and overdone grimdark in a single nutshell  The cutscene fragment in question, though the entire video is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TQWz1_uSNU&t=328s CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 06:38
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Orks are the best.
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Jun 5, 2022 09:29
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Lady Radia posted:so see im not sure im following again! im struggling with the inconsistencies here i guess lol. cause your post was all about how good it was at serious stories, and how they clashed with deep and topical themes. The thing is, WH40K essentially started as a joke. People kept joking about "what if Warhammer but in space" back in the day. So GW starting writing and releasing stuff that was GW in space, in a completely tongue in cheek way. It completely took off, and is the juggernaut it is today. There have been eras over the years where GW have treated WH40k as a complete satire, and other eras where they wanted it to be treated as the most serious, grimdark, Shakespeare in space stuff. They're sort of in a golden era with the setting right now, as they really support both ends of the spectrum. They release stuff that is turbo grimdark, and other stuff that is funny and lighthearted. There is so much media, so many game variations, so many books, that you can pick which side of the setting you want, and be completely fulfilled. Everything from the grimdark serious hell of the Horus Heresy 30k setting, all the way up to 40k kids books and Blood Bowl where orcs stomp on dwarves faces playing football. You can keep the serious and the silly separated apart, or mix them and have fun. Either way works, and either way is valid in the setting.
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Jun 5, 2022 10:10
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Goddammit, all this 40K talk has finally tempted me to start reading the Horus Heresy books. The sheer number has always been too intimidating...
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Jun 5, 2022 10:30
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CottonWolf posted:Goddammit, all this 40K talk has finally tempted me to start reading the Horus Heresy books. The sheer number has always been too intimidating... If this is your first time getting into 40k fiction, the Horus Heresy stuff might be a bit of rough start. There's a definitely great stuff in there, but it's a mix of authors, so there's some serious dogshit mixed in with the good stuff. It's also some of the most gratingly serious stuff written in 40K, to the point where it can become almost a joke how up it's own rear end it can be. Dan Abnett is top tier WH40k fiction, so anything by him is decent. The Eisenhorn books are great place to start, and the related Ravenor/Bequin books he's written that are offshoots of Eisenhorn are shaping up to be perhaps the most important lore stuff in 40k in ages. The Night Lords books by Aaron Dembski-Bowden are also top tier, but they are an example of the super grimdark, serious stuff, so your mileage may vary. If you want something more light-hearted, the Ciaphas Cain books by Alex Stewart are fairly decent. They're nowhere near as good as Abnetts stuff, and the authors bag of literary tricks is seriously limited, but it's fun to read along with a reluctant hero who'd rather be getting drunk and slacking off than being a paragon of the Imperium.
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Jun 5, 2022 10:53
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Thanks for that. I guess I'll give the first Eisenhorn book a go instead then.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:13
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CommissarMega posted:The cutscene fragment in question, though the entire video is worth a watch: The best part is: If you play through his campaign, in the end you fight the inquisitor and win. Having her at his mercy, Bludflagg simply takes the hat and wanders off, leaving her unharmed. He only ever wanted a fight and a hat .Generally I find that 40k's self-seriousness works in its favour when balanced just right with the winks at the audience. The way that these absolute absurdities are treated as perfectly normal and expected in-universe enhances the comedy of it, and allows for it to feel pretty cool to boot. Orks are just the most obvious aspect of it, but it really extends to everything, like the literal battle nuns who have actual shrines bolted to their tanks, or the supposedly unfathomably wise immortal space elves who keep making the absolute dumbest mistakes. In a weird way it reminds me of Metal Gear Rising: There, the idea that some tiny cyborg twink could just pick up a house-sized combat robot, throw it through the air, and cut it in half while overwrought rock blares in the background should be stupid and try-hard on its face. But the game plays it straight and commits just the right amount for it to be a) hilarious, and b) loving awesome. Also, when it comes to 40k authors, I second the recommendation for Abnett and the Eisenhorn trilogy, and also throw in a suggestion to stay well away from anything written by C.S. Goto. I don't remember much about his books, just that they were just absolute dogshit.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:47
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Lady Radia posted:so see im not sure im following again! im struggling with the inconsistencies here i guess lol. cause your post was all about how good it was at serious stories, and how they clashed with deep and topical themes. It's inconsistent because everything varies extremely by who is writing it, including how seriously the setting is taken and how the tragedy is portrayed. Basically the only thing they have in common is branding and shared requirements to fit the license, which provides a lot of material but without a lot of thematic unity. Lots of of the better authors (A.D. Bowden, Peter Fehavari) have a shared understanding that the "irony" of the setting is that it's obvious to the reader that the Imperium is bad and doomed, but individual characters realizing that is either scary (because they "can't do anything" about it on an individual level) or corrupting (because only extreme options can provide alternatives). Then you have the author that wrote a book about how the Space Elves put out a hit on Martin Luther King Jr. and that's why he's dead.
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Jun 5, 2022 12:01
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One of the DLC trailers for Total War: Warhammer 2 showed some the lighthearted nature applied to the Warhammer Fantasy setting, with a parody of Predator. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2eHPKjW9k
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Jun 5, 2022 12:26
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Perestroika posted:battle nuns who have actual shrines bolted to their tanks Excuse me? Their tanks do not have shrines bolted to them, their tanks are shrines   Now report to the Commissar for debriefing. Should you survive with at least two intact limbs, I have a trench for you to dig. (Seriously though, I want that cathedral helmet IRL )
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Jun 5, 2022 12:30
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:If this is your first time getting into 40k fiction, the Horus Heresy stuff might be a bit of rough start. There's a definitely great stuff in there, but it's a mix of authors, so there's some serious dogshit mixed in with the good stuff. It's also some of the most gratingly serious stuff written in 40K, to the point where it can become almost a joke how up it's own rear end it can be. This would be good for the OP, seeing as we'll probably have more than a few "I have no idea what 40k is aside from the GRIMDARK, why should I care about a CRPG story?" folks as this thread evolves. Books, games, podcasts... anything that helps people get familiar with the setting, even if it isn't specifically focused on Rogue Traders. Though some RT-focused stuff would be cool too for those of us who only know the broad strokes that they were mentioned in some 3rd Ed codex we read in middle school. The last one is me, I know the broad strokes of what Rogue Traders are, but I also haven't seriously looked at 40k anything outside BFGA2 in a decade (also Darktide because I want my fuckin Ogryn). edit: CommissarMega posted:(Seriously though, I want that cathedral helmet IRL I did not notice the cathedral hat on the first pass. Warmachine fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 13:26
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If we're recommending hams media for new people, you have to throw in the Gaunt's Ghosts series - it's also by Abnett, it's consistently good, and it's nowhere near as long as the heresy stuff. It also was the series that proved to me you could write a fairly serious story in the warhammer universe and play it straight almost the whole way through (its basically space band of brothers)
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Jun 5, 2022 13:58
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I've been playing on-off GW games for 25+ years and 40k fiction is mostly garbage that shouldn't be taken serious. But it is passable source material for tabletop/video games.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:37
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My personal 40K lit suggestions: 1: The Eisenhorn series: For those who want a look at the inner workings of the Imperium beyond "ALL IS WAR AND WAR IS ALL". These books by Dan Abnett detail the adventures of Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn and his retinue, and serve as a look at both the aforementioned inner workings, as well as give a look into the philosophies behind 40K, chief among which is that no good deed goes unpunished. Also, despite the Space Marines being the poster boys of the game line, the Inquisition is one of the most impactful organizations within the Imperium, which make the Eisenhorn series a good first jump into the universe if you don't mind/are attracted to the grimdark. 2: CI-CI-CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!: Covering the adventures of the hapless/heroic/hapless-yet-heroic/heroic-yet-thinks-of-himself-as-hapless Commissar Caiaphas Cain, this is the book series you read if you still want to take in a proper treatment of the 40K universe, but you're not really in the mood to wonder how our heroes have damned themselves and their world this time. Sandy Mitchell does a great job balancing between taking the piss out of 40K, while at the same time being quite respectful of the fluff where and when he needs to be. . 3: The Gaunt's Ghosts series: Another good book series by Dan Abnett, this series detail the adventures of the Tanith First-and-Only, the sole regiment raised by the world of Tanith before it was obliterated by Chaos. A great look into how the whole 'Only War' thing works out from the perspectives of ground troopers, and a much better look into how life is in the Imperial Guard than the Ciaphas Cain books (then again, that's not the focus of the latter). There is grimdark here, though it's less 'oppression of the grinding machine of omnipresent government', and more 'last stand of a brave band of heroes whom no-one will ever hear of'. 4: The Shira Calpurnia series: I know ACAB, but this is 40K, everyone is AB, so Shira Calpurnia being not just a 40K cop, but a 40K super cop is excusable. Like Eisenhorn, this series provides a look into the civilian life of the Imperium, and how the Lex Imperialis (standard Imperial law) affects everyone from the planetary governor on down. The second book in the series, Legacy, has a lot to do with the thread topic, seeing as it concerns a Rogue Trader charter. It's also a good look into how high-level politics shape things in the Imperium, and how an actual honest cop like Shira might have trouble navigating that labyrinth. A criminally underrated series, if you'll pardon my phrasing. 5: The Night Lords series: This series from Aaron Dembski-Bowen may not be very newbie friendly from what I remember, but if anyone want to have a look into the workings of a Chaos Space Marine Legion that somehow manages to remain vaguely sympathetic, this is it. As one of the saner CSM Legions (which is like saying they're serial killers amng genocidal tyrants), the Night Lords show you can have very good reasons for turning to Chaos, and why that is nevertheless a bad idea. Still, they do the best with the situation they're in. Much more exciting and immersive than most normal Space Marine works. Honourable Mentions The Sisters of Battle Omnibus by James Swallow: I'll be frank with you guys- as odd as this might sound, I genuinely, honestly have no idea whether or not this book series is good. I mean, I friggin' loved it, and had I made this post before I read Swallow's Blood Angels books, this would have been right up there with the other good book series. However, said Blood Angels books literally bored me to sleep, and I can't remember enough about them to even give them a proper critique. This in turn means that I have no idea whether it was my general disinterest in Space Marines that did me in, or if Swallow is just bad at writing Marines, or if he's just a bad writer in general and it's only my  over the Ecclesiarchy in general that kept me enraptured while reading these books.Aaanyway, these books and short stories cover the exploits of Sisters Miriya and Verity (a soldier and scholar respectively) as they navigate matters of faith and fury in the Imperium. I personally think it has a good mix of both the Imperium's politics and hot bolter-on-heretic action, interspersed with details on how faith in the Imperium is generally expressed. It's in general a very favourable view on the Sororitas, which is quite refreshing since most other authors tend to poo poo on them both in fiction and in the game codices, though whether or not is a positive depends on how you view the kind of pervasive faith the Sisters fight for. Fifteen Hours: This one-shot novel was one of the first (if not the first; my memory's a little rusty) novel written about the Guard. It details the life of one newbie Guardsman, who is told that the average lifespan of a fresh Guardsman on the world he's landed on is, well, fifteen hours. Taking it as a personal challenge, the Guardsman then fights with every ounce of strength he's got to prove that he's worthy of survival.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:11
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If you talk about 40k you also have to talk about the fan culture that built up around it. For a long time, it was dominated by a lot of pasty white dudes, and as you can imagine when that is the majority of your fan-base you get certain tendencies. The kind of people who lose their loving mind over the idea of female space marines and start yelling about lore accuracy for starters. Then you get into the more garden variety fash enthusiasts who treat it all very seriously and are huge fans of the Krieg Death Korps and I hope you can tell from that spelling just exactly what famous fascist military their uniform design was based on. So, it was a problem, and since GW was in the business of selling plastic toys to a niche audience it wasn't something they were particularly aware of or cared about. As social media became more ubiquitous however, you started seeing it become much more prominent as the face of the fandom. About 2 years ago, there was finally some major call outs of the hardcore unironic fascists in the fan-base. One of, if not the most popular W40k dedicated youtube channel, Archhammer was run by a real piece of poo poo and some others highlighted how just from popular search results alone this youtuber would be a lot of people's first impression into the franchise and how he was a racist neo-nazi. Thankfully, GW responded with a social media post about how they wanted everyone to feel welcome and that racism/sexism/nationalists had no place in their fandom. When the predictable response of "you're losing my business" started GW simply said "good, go gently caress yourselves." How much of that was sincere and how much was carefully planned corporate PR is up for debate, but GW has gone out of its way in the last few years to very publicly repudiate any alt-right adjacent behavior as being allowed. If you want a deep dive, this is the video that got linked to me when it was happening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG3Q_HzUVZg
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Jun 5, 2022 16:34
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CommissarMega posted:
I would toss Farseer in here as well. Written by William King, of the original Gotrek/Felix books, it actually focuses on an extremely down-on-his luck Rogue Trader who suddenly finds himself dealing with an Ulthwe Farseer and their bodyguard. It's a pretty decent look at both a struggling Rogue Trader (which I imagine we'll start as... possibly not this bad though) as well as just how labyrinthine the plans of the Eldar can get. This one slightly unfortunate aspect in that it's not a complete story, as it was supposed to be the first book in a trilogy, but I feel it stands quite well on its own - you'll just never get to see the repercussions and fallout of the events happening in the climax. Relatedly, though I'm unfamiliar with them, I'd toss in Andy Hoare's Rogue Trader series - consisting of Rogue Star and Star of Damocles (an omnibus release adds in Savage Scars as well) - which more conventionally cover a Rogue Trader house operating in area the Tau are starting to expand into. This, while still covering the exploration aspect, does also get more into the Imperial politicking the houses deal with.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:06
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pentyne posted:If you talk about 40k you also have to talk about the fan culture that built up around it. thanks for this and the context! most of my exposure to 40k before now WAS through either the fascists who loving loved it (and GW abided), or the people who would simultaneously say "it's just funny bro it's just satire" while talking about how they wish they were a cool space marine or some poo poo. i'll check out the vid!
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Jun 5, 2022 18:39
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I should point out that 40k is still a Satire. Satire does not need to be silly or humorous. It can be, but exaggeration and ridicule are also parts of it.
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Jun 5, 2022 23:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:I should point out that 40k is still a Satire. Satire does not need to be silly or humorous. It can be, but exaggeration and ridicule are also parts of it. It started as satire and then from editions like 5-7 it was no longer satire and that was Very Bad. I don't think "Hire Fans" has ever backfired as spectacularly as it has with 40k tbh.
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Jun 5, 2022 23:46
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Psycho Landlord posted:It started as satire and then from editions like 5-7 it was no longer satire and that was Very Bad. It's still satire as they pointed out pretty recently even if it's taken a bit more seriously.
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Jun 5, 2022 23:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's still satire as they pointed out pretty recently even if it's taken a bit more seriously. Well yeah because we're in edition 9 and post several people at GW being made aware they had hosed up, as mentioned above. I'm pointing out that Radia getting conflicting ideas about 40k's status as satirical over the years isn't really surprising.
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Jun 5, 2022 23:50
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I saw dawn of war 1 in 2004, with the first expansion, that had priest armed with chainsaw, and was sold on the setting.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:16
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Someone more knowledgeable then me can explain the details but it seems like in general there was massive turnover and a huge shift in directions and priorities in the 2010s that resulted in the current situation being a big improvement over the previous editions. It's a trend you see with any grim dark esque IP where the core writers get too drunk on the lore and want to push it to extremes. White Wolf, which got bought out by Paradox, literally had their publishing permission revoked after they released a Vampire TM 5th edition book with some extremely bad taste vampire lore linked to real life pogroms of LGBTQ people.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:23
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I'd say that decent chunks of 40k are satirical, but the universe as a whole isn't satire, and hasn't been for a long, long time. Particularly if you're reading the novels - not just because of writer quality or whatever, but because the way you write a straight satire and the way you write a normal story with satirical elements are rather different. Like, even something like Ciphias Cain will poke fun at aspects of the Imperium, but as a story you're still basically meant to read it straight. Gaunt's Ghosts doesn't even really do the first, but most people would still say it's a fairly good 40k novel series.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:25
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I don't know if this is accurate but the en-goodening of GW in the 2010s is frequently attributed to Tom Kirby stepping down as CEO in 2014. How much of the bad times for 40k were because of him and how much of it was scapegoating would require someone more knowledgeable about the internals of GW.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:42
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I could do some messed up things in Wrath of the Righteous on Chaotic Evil Demon path... I wonder how far Owlcat is gonna go considering its 40k...
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Jun 6, 2022 00:55
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frajaq posted:I could do some messed up things in Wrath of the Righteous on Chaotic Evil Demon path... I wonder how far Owlcat is gonna go considering its 40k... Seems you can fall to Chaos.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:57
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frajaq posted:I could do some messed up things in Wrath of the Righteous on Chaotic Evil Demon path... I wonder how far Owlcat is gonna go considering its 40k... Based on the little I've learned of Rogue Trader the past week the evil path will probably be that one dbz filler episode of Vegeta and the bug planet on repeat but with mad profit after every genocide and destroyed planet
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Jun 6, 2022 03:41
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I can't suggest reading them in good conscience, but The Beast series did probably have the best bit of Orkiness. They developed their own deathstar. It was a giant ork head that yelled so loud it ripped apart localized gravity.
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Jun 6, 2022 03:51
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I can't suggest reading them in good conscience, but The Beast series did probably have the best bit of Orkiness. They developed their own deathstar. It was a giant ork head that yelled so loud it ripped apart localized gravity. Someone gave me a plot synopsis of the war of the beast poo poo once and I was actually offended at how truly awful it sounded. Like the thing you described sounds funny on its own but it comes with all the baggage of Ork concentration camps and turning them into grimdark uruk-hai who do totalitarian genocide on everyone and also for some reason they can become godzilla sized? Like there's actually a special king of the orks who is the size of a gargant for some fuckin reason. Black Library has a lot bad fuckin fiction under its belt but that one's up there from the sounds of it. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 04:21
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Deff Skwadron the black and white comic is the best bits of orkiness.
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Jun 6, 2022 04:37
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Terrible Opinions posted:Deff Skwadron the black and white comic is the best bits of orkiness. Genuinely agree
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Jun 6, 2022 04:43
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