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Psycho Landlord posted:Genuinely agree Thirded
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Jun 6, 2022 04:51
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Brutal Kunnin' is a good book.
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Jun 6, 2022 05:10
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Warhammer 40k is not satire and has not been satire since the 80s. It IS trying to say something about authoritarianism and theocracy being bad but that does not make it satire that just means it has a thesis. The satirical tone was, again, left back in the 80s. The modern tone especially if you delve into any of the Horus Heresy material is way more tragedy. 40ks problem is the age old “you can’t make an anti-war war film” problem. Invariably an anti-war war film will make war look cool or noble somehow and 99% of viewers will miss the point. It doesn’t work. It never works. 40k is no exception. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 11:54
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Captain Oblivious posted:Warhammer 40k is not satire and has not been satire since the 80s. It IS trying to say something about authoritarianism and theocracy being bad but that does not make it satire that just means it has a thesis. The satirical tone was, again, left back in the 80s. The modern tone especially if you delve into any of the Horus Heresy material is way more tragedy. Excellent username/post combo.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:31
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I'm just happy that Owlcat trying their hands on another IP than Pathfinder. The fact that they are the first to develop a "proper" rpg for Warhammer 40 K is just gravy, as far as I'm concerned.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:45
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Captain Oblivious posted:Warhammer 40k is not satire and has not been satire since the 80s. It IS trying to say something about authoritarianism and theocracy being bad but that does not make it satire that just means it has a thesis. The satirical tone was, again, left back in the 80s. The modern tone especially if you delve into any of the Horus Heresy material is way more tragedy. I like to call it the Wow Cool Robot paradox.
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Jun 7, 2022 01:54
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Blockhouse posted:I like to call it the Wow Cool Robot paradox. in fairness, they were Very Cool robots
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Jun 7, 2022 02:27
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I wonder how they're going to do inter-system transport given how hilariously wrong things could go in the rpg. Actually, I am wondering how big the map's gonna be in general, if there's going to be like handful of planets or dozens and if there's gonna be a colony-building system like the city and crusade stuff.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:39
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NewMars posted:I wonder how they're going to do inter-system transport given how hilariously wrong things could go in the rpg. Actually, I am wondering how big the map's gonna be in general, if there's going to be like handful of planets or dozens and if there's gonna be a colony-building system like the city and crusade stuff. Yeah, in the TTRPG colony building and travelling freely between systems loving around is part of core gameplay. Hard to imagine a linear or restricted Rogue Trader map.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:47
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Does the TTRPG have much in the way of modules that Owlcat is likely to follow here? Or are they more likely to be writing their own stuff?
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Jun 7, 2022 03:00
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Cantorsdust posted:Yeah, in the TTRPG colony building and travelling freely between systems loving around is part of core gameplay. Hard to imagine a linear or restricted Rogue Trader map. I read a lot of the massive, massive wall of text explaining the game in detail. https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/night10194/warhammer-40000-roleplay-rogue-trader/ Some highlights, specifically for that question quote:Finally, you roll d100 for every 5 days in the Warp, adding +20 to the roll if you succeeded the Per+10 roll earlier to spot potential random encounters, with a 25% chance of nothing happening (45% if you got that sweet +20!) and lots of chances of hauntings or spooky events or whatever that will hurt crew and morale. Also, most of the random encounters in the warp are vague and will rely on the GM to arbitrarily take their description and insert an adventure and are you seeing the loving pattern? It's almost like you roll a ton of dice just to arrive at 'The GM waves their hands and makes up some spooky poo poo and then maybe we get on with the real adventure'. Navigating is a ton of random, non-interactive bullshit that adds up to a totally pointless subsystem I'm sure a lot of players ignored after the first couple voyages, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MECHANICAL THING NAVIGATORS GET TO INTERACT WITH. The possible systems are Winterscale's Domain: 'charted' in the sense that someone explored it a while ago, but a lot of the maps are lying. It's still the easiest place to explore and has tons of riches so has the most people fighting over stuff, mostly human vs human, rogue trader against rogue trader Foundling Worlds: Cursed, full of warp storms. Has a crime planet, a ~mysterious ruins~ planet, and a hub for Chaos forces. Accursed Demense: Location of maybe Necrons, lots of Chaos, and ORKS. Massive ship graveyard of ships from all races ripe for plunder, is a major ork battleground where one ork will eventually get big enough to launch raid on the rest of the systems The Heathen Stars: Tons of "Dark Age" (i.e super advanced human societies that the Imperium hasn't taken over/wiped out), so lots of human contact who don't give a gently caress about your god and the average cop is probably so tech'd out they could take on a Space Marine and win. The Unbeholden Reaches: Sort of the strange and weird, one planet that is a massive alien computer. Rifts of Hecaton: Dead empty place full of ruins and dead stars. Races Eldar: Corsairs and Dark Eldar only Chaos: pirates, cultists etc. Orks: Biggest thread in the region, can still find ork mercs working for humans as long as they are promised better hats and bigger fights Kroot: cannibalistic nomadic mercenary bird-lizard-men. Mostly chill and willing to work for a good wage and things/people to eat. Disciples of Thule: Admech who will fight you at the drop of a hat over archeotech Unique to RT Rak'Gol:big, tall, four-legged (and often four-armed) lizard-insect monstermen with primitive technology and a hard-on for evil cybernetics. Yu'Vath: an alien race of warp-worshipers who enslaved human worlds with their powerful sorcery. Dead in the setting, but a huge mystery that was never explained. Seems analogous to some Cthululu-esque stuff. Stryxis: horror-ewoks and are a race of wandering stellar nomads, specfically not Roma stereotypes.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:07
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Anno posted:Does the TTRPG have much in the way of modules that Owlcat is likely to follow here? Or are they more likely to be writing their own stuff? There were a couple very broad campaign outlines but nothing like paizo's adventure paths, and the trailer's hooks already don't match anything those suggested, so the plot is likely wholly original.
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Jun 7, 2022 03:52
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pentyne's highlight posted:Finally, you roll d100 for every 5 days in the Warp, adding +20 to the roll if you succeeded the Per+10 roll earlier to spot potential random encounters, with a 25% chance of nothing happening (45% if you got that sweet +20!) and lots of chances of hauntings or spooky events or whatever that will hurt crew and morale. Also, most of the random encounters in the warp are vague and will rely on the GM to arbitrarily take their description and insert an adventure and are you seeing the loving pattern? It's almost like you roll a ton of dice just to arrive at 'The GM waves their hands and makes up some spooky poo poo and then maybe we get on with the real adventure'. Navigating is a ton of random, non-interactive bullshit that adds up to a totally pointless subsystem I'm sure a lot of players ignored after the first couple voyages, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MECHANICAL THING NAVIGATORS GET TO INTERACT WITH. I remember Grey Hunter's DnD rogue trader sessions, basically the only reason I even know RT exists, and they went without a full navigator for several sessions, which meant they ended up wasting all-told something on the order of several years to decades in the warp compared to normal time. Oh, and warp encounters, lots of "warp reefs" and other non-lethal but very annoying to dangerous random bullshit. They had more than one demon incursion due to geller field failures and whatnot. fakeedit: their mechanicus adept player also made it their mission to become an unstoppable god of death and Grey's personal encounter defeater. A role I say they succeeded pretty well at. Ardryn fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 04:08
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One time we directly translated into a warp storm without going through safety measures due to orks attacking. We were stuck inside it for months. And then when we got out, it was right into a hellish time loop situation. This was all with the expanded warp travel rules, which have an entire book dedicated to them.
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Jun 7, 2022 04:12
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Blockhouse posted:I like to call it the Wow Cool Robot paradox. the lion el'johnson paradox.
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Jun 7, 2022 04:27
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NewMars posted:One time we directly translated into a warp storm without going through safety measures due to orks attacking. We were stuck inside it for months. And then when we got out, it was right into a hellish time loop situation. I won't lie, as someone who had very limited knowledge of 40k at the time, DoW was really my only exposure, those sessions kind of kicked rear end and made me like 40k a lot more in general.
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Jun 7, 2022 04:46
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I am incredibly excited for this and I think its both the best and the most insane decision to use the FFG 40k system for this. I adore that system but its a broken mess of insane rocket tag mechanics and clumsy idiots with psykers more likely to blap their own party than help for many levels and its fueled by easy to break mechanisms but goddamn am I excited for it.
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Jun 7, 2022 05:22
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Psycho Landlord posted:I'm one of the "you flatly cannot take 40k seriously" people and what I get out of it is that as stupid and ludicrous as the setting is it owns. It's just a bucket of cool ideas thrown together into a metal album cover and wrapped in a layer of the purplest prose that has ever been laid to paper. This is a setting where space huns ride warbikes out of passing dropships to lay into demons and robot space Egyptians with swords made out of chainsaws. What I would add to this is "You flatly cannot take 40k seriously, and give anyone who does take it seriously a mile wide berth". The problem I have with playing it at FLGS out in public is that you get the people who take it way, way too seriously to the point where they start idolizing the fashy bits. If you want to read some of the fun stuff you can do with these systems, in the Goldmine somewhere there's an old SLAM SECTOR thread from TG where a handful of us played as horrible mutants to generally make everyone's lives miserable. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3679753&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Jun 7, 2022 06:12
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Lord Koth posted:I would toss Farseer in here as well. Written by William King, of the original Gotrek/Felix books, it actually focuses on an extremely down-on-his luck Rogue Trader who suddenly finds himself dealing with an Ulthwe Farseer and their bodyguard. It's a pretty decent look at both a struggling Rogue Trader (which I imagine we'll start as... possibly not this bad though) as well as just how labyrinthine the plans of the Eldar can get. This one slightly unfortunate aspect in that it's not a complete story, as it was supposed to be the first book in a trilogy, but I feel it stands quite well on its own - you'll just never get to see the repercussions and fallout of the events happening in the climax. And I'd add to this Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Betrayer, because although a lot of people here are highlighting the '40k can be fun when you don't take it seriously', this book's by far my favorite because it does the opposite and explores the relationships of a group that until then was largely considered mindless berserkers. There's fighting, sure, but effectively all the meat of the story is watching what's basically a broken family try to hold together and break themselves more because of that desperate attempt to understand each other. First 40k book that really introduced me to the setting too; first I read was Nemesis, but... I would not read that for a first book. Good Dumplings fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 06:35
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Ardryn posted:fakeedit: their mechanicus adept player also made it their mission to become an unstoppable god of death and Grey's personal encounter defeater. A role I say they succeeded pretty well at. Yeah explorators are real easy to turn into unkillable beatsticks. Every FFG system has to have that one class that rapidly overpowers the others and fucks with encounter design.
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Jun 7, 2022 13:11
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I realise given development time they probably won't be in the base game, but they've announced that the squats (space dwarves) are coming back as a the Leagues of Votann and they've been drip-feeding that backstory, so I hope they give us an Ironkin party member down the line. A robodwarf pretending to be a meat-dwarf (because the AdMech/Imperium hates AI, although the actual Squats treat them as equal and valued members of their society).
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Jun 7, 2022 13:36
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Ork merc party member please
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Jun 7, 2022 14:56
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Dandywalken posted:Ork merc party member please Careful now. That's how you get fungus infection. Snotlings on your lower decks are no joke.
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Jun 7, 2022 16:01
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In the FFG rpg if you play an ork you can get grots and while you can only have so many with you at a time the actual supply of them is infinite Like if you lose a grot to shenanigans/the grot blows itself up via shenanigans/you get hungry and become minus one grot, a new grot just pops out of a nearby vent and starts following you around no rules for how this affects the air filtration systems sadly
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Jun 7, 2022 16:10
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As orks are as said a fungus I imagine "Badly". There's a reason the answer to "Orks are on the planet!" is often "Well, time to destroy that planet.". It's not just Imperial brutality, once orks show up you are probably infected with ork spores forever.
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Jun 7, 2022 16:12
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They can be burned out. To the Imperium it’s just generally not worth it unless they think the planet is important enough.
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Jun 7, 2022 22:55
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A couple of the Ciaphas Cain books deal with a planet that has a major promethium refinery, that was attacked by a massive Ork Waaagh. Rather then lose the refinery, they got used to once every few generations, a particularly cunnin and brutal Ork would get through the punitive raids meant to keep the Orks at a manageable level and start building up a Waaggh needing outside help to clean up.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:49
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Yeah, the whole 'the Imperium will glass a planet if there's so much as an ork spore or one downhiver has a stray thought' thing is a massive over-exaggeration; in all but the most dire cases (e.g. a Tyranid hive fleet is bearing down or the planet is imminently going to turn into a Daemon World), the Imperium would be more willing to spend billions of lives over the span of decades than kill a planet- after all, lives are the one resource the Imperium has an abundance of, and worlds are the only losses it cares about.
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Jun 8, 2022 05:16
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A good example I saw was in the Intro of Space Marine. The Forgeworld Graia is under Ork Invasion. It produces Warlord Class Titans so it's considered Strategic Value Absolute. The first option asked is Exterminatus which is rejected immediately as it's Strategic Value Absolute and they won't give up the planet no matter what. The next option asked is deploying Capital Weaponry and bombarding the orks, which is rejected as the estimated reduction in manufacturing output from all the damage a bombardment would cause is considered unacceptable. The next is sending in a Liberation Fleet, which is accepted, and expected to arrive in 5-37 days, but the time frame is considered unacceptable, as there is a good chance the orks will do serious damage before they arrive. To keep the damage the orks do to a minimum they request the nearby Ultramarines to deal with the orks until the Liberation Fleet arrives.
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Jun 8, 2022 06:28
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CommissarMega posted:Yeah, Orks are the funnest part of the setting- depending on how you read them or the writer themselves, they're either the only faction that gets the joke of 40K, or just doesn't give a gently caress. They're here to have fun, krump gits, and GO FASTAAAAA WAAAAAGH! The Imperium have some fun bits too, the foundation was heavily cribbed from Dune so AI is highly illegal. But they also had highly valuable machines of war that required it so they started a lie about the machines being blessed by the Machine God and inhabited by machine spirits. This belief spread and millenia later led to Mars being controlled by a cult dedicated to this machine God.
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Jun 8, 2022 14:44
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People say there aren't any Skaven in 40k, but actually they are, they're just called the Adeptus Mechanicus.
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Jun 8, 2022 14:55
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Also squats are BACK
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Jun 8, 2022 15:12
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The Imperium have some fun bits too, the foundation was heavily cribbed from Dune so AI is highly illegal. But they also had highly valuable machines of war that required it so they started a lie about the machines being blessed by the Machine God and inhabited by machine spirits. This belief spread and millenia later led to Mars being controlled by a cult dedicated to this machine God. Okay, so, Machine Spirits: Way back in the day, humanity relied on AI machines known as the Men of Iron to do the grunt work. This worked out well for a time, until of course these thinking machines decided that hey, they were doing most of the work, they deserved most of the power, right? As expected, future capitalists didn't take too kindly to their toasters deciding to unionize, and so thus ended humanity's golden technological age (later known as the Dark Age of Technology) in interstellar fire. The Adeptus Mechanicus that arose afterwards held that Abominable Intelligences were verboten, and creating machines with the minds of mankind would be punishable by the most painful torments the AdMech could think of. Considering they held the vast majority of Dark Age tech and knowledge, they could think of quite a lot. That said, much of humanity's greatest technological accomplishments relied on at least some kind of AI, and so thse were grandfathered in as 'machine spirits', which was an animistic belief of the Mechanicus that all devices save the most rudimentary had an animating spirit, which also had the happy side-effect of ensuring that the Mechanicus had a monopoly on all technological development and operations. That said, there is another aspect to machine spirits, especially when it comes to things that don't require an AI. After all, not every Guardsmen is a member of the AdMech, and your average habworker doesn't go to a Temple Mechanicus every time he wants to make toast. In this case, 'machine spirits' make for a handy excuse for rote operations of technology, especially those technologies the Imperium might not be able to mass produce (or even at all). Say a guy want some air conditioning while he's driving. On Earth, he might have an older car and need to wait half a minute or so before he can safely turn on the AC. In the Imperium, he might recite the Catechisms of Techno-Inspiration three times (each taking ten seconds to do so, conveniently enough) in order to fully rouse his car's spirit before he turns on the frigidarius, lest he incite his vehicle's wrath. In this way, the AdMech passes on knowledge to its lay priests and the howling masses. Dressing up regular technological procedures in religious ceremony also ensures that the aforementioned ancient technologies still in use aren't misused; a gung-ho idiot (which the Imperium encourages the production of) might be cavalier with how they operate their lasgun if they just saw it as some tech, but might take far better care of it if he thinks the Emperor-as-Omnissiah will curse him if he doesn't. That said, the higher ranks of the AdMech DO know the science behind most save the most advanced technology, but even at those high levels there's still some semblance of mysticism. And finally, 40K is a universe based on belief and how the actions/emotions said belief inspires resonates in the warp. The Eldar once believed they were invincible, grew decadent, then turbo-murderfucked a Chaos God into existence whole also ensuring that humanity would need to turn its atheist god-king into a psychic lighthouse in order to travel from star to star. And now there is an empire consisting of trillions of screaming fanatics, 99.999% of whom (even the heretics) believe that all machines have a spirit in them that needs to be appeased...
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Jun 8, 2022 15:51
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One thing to add is that even AI are susceptible to Chaos, so there's a very real chance that too-smart an AC unit could suddenly sprout tentacles and spikes.
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Jun 8, 2022 15:54
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If you want to get a good look at how they treat technology, play Mechanicus. It’s a good game and all the characters are tech-priests (or Nekrons).
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Jun 8, 2022 16:07
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Also squats are BACK Why were they removed in the first place?
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Jun 8, 2022 16:20
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CottonWolf posted:If you want to get a good look at how they treat technology, play Mechanicus. It’s a good game and all the characters are tech-priests (or Nekrons). I'm sure this nomenclature is not at all confusing to outsiders.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:44
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Zeniel posted:Why were they removed in the first place? 'Nids ate them.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:51
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Zeniel posted:Why were they removed in the first place? They were just 'space dwarves' and their models were really unpopular so they just stopped making new ones and did a throw-away line in the lore about the Tyrannids eating their homeworld to explain it.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:02
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Mordja posted:One thing to add is that even AI are susceptible to Chaos, so there's a very real chance that too-smart an AC unit could suddenly sprout tentacles and spikes. Also as I understand it one reason new technology is either verboten or extremely slow to come out is that the adeptus have to inspect every square inch of it to make sure it didn't accidentally, or "accidentally", include a chaos symbol in its construction, which could lead to the aforementioned spontaneous tentacularing.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:10
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