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Ardryn posted:Also as I understand it one reason new technology is either verboten or extremely slow to come out is that the adeptus have to inspect every square inch of it to make sure it didn't accidentally, or "accidentally", include a chaos symbol in its construction, which could lead to the aforementioned spontaneous tentacularing. Yep, it's called a Logos Daemonis, which is also why the Mechanicus tends to look poorly on (as in, 'forget servitorization, just shoot the bastard') excessive creativity; not only is a creative outlook one that by definition looks outside the prescribed way of doing things, it's also one that is very vulnerable to warp taint (mainly by Tzeentch, but other Chaos Gods can stick their oar in too). Another practical reason that development is so slow is because the Imperium relies on mass-production and ease of logistics rather than individual unit effectiveness, especially since it relies on standard-template factories and standardized education. Sure, your new body armour is twice as protective as regular Guard flak, but if it requires three times as many resources to make and/or specialized education only available to high-ranking techpriests, you'd probably be laughed out of the seminary (and then shot for excessive creativity/stupidity). Have schematics for a dune buggy that does excellently in deserts but moves like trash anywhere else? No chance in hell is a Magos going to retool (and risk damaging) a millennia-old factory that makes Chimeras just because you have a techno-fetish for dune buggies (in fact, he'll probably have you shot for excessive creativity/stupidity).
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Jun 8, 2022 18:26
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Zore posted:They were just 'space dwarves' and their models were really unpopular so they just stopped making new ones and did a throw-away line in the lore about the Tyrannids eating their homeworld to explain it. The other part was Andy Chambers taking on more of a senior role in the company and one of the things he disliked, at the time, was the armies crowding in on each other and blurring the faction lines. So squats, sisters and genestealer cultists got de-emphasized when they moved to 3rd edition. All three were basically 'Imperial Guard but with ...'. Sisters came back, sort of, about 4 years later but were an also ran until 2015, GSC about 20 years and squats finally this year.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:30
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40k has two kinds of Skaven - Admech are skryre, the guard are everybody else
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Jun 8, 2022 18:55
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While we're on the topic, it might be a good idea to get into Archeotech a bit, since this game might well directly touch onto it. Basically, during the Dark Age of Technology, humanity's level of technology was really loving good, to the point where it could genuinely rival that of older alien races. But most of that was lost during the age of strife and at the current point in time, the Imperium's degree of technological sophistication is really rather poor compared to other players in the galaxy. They mostly compensate by sheer weight of numbers and industry. However, bits and pieces of that older, superior human technology are still scattered around the galaxy, commonly known as archeotech. Those can range from simply very good guns to advanced power generators to planet-destroying superweapons. Unsurprisingly, the Adeptus Mechanicus very much likes to gets their hands on such pieces, in part to make sure nothing terribly cursed gets into circulation, but mostly to maintain their continuing stranglehold on all technological knowledge. Nonetheless, small bits and pieces of archeotech do get out and are often a highly sought-after commodity among the Imperium's nobility. Rogue Traders in particular can often be found chasing after rumours of Archeotech finds, hoping to beat the Mechanicus search parties to the punch. That's also one of the major reasons why you occasionally find Mechanicus priests riding along with Rogue Trader crews, exchanging their technological expertise in exchange for first dibs on any archeotech finds. For the same reason, you also see former Mechanicus priests on these crews, who have left behind the Adeptus (or were forced to flee) because they chafed under the dogma. Perhaps the pinnacle of archeotech are the Standard Template Constructs (STCs), which were the thing that once allowed humanity to spread so quickly throughout the galaxy. Basically, an STC is a combination of an automated factory and a knowledge base of all human technology. A fresh group of colonists with a STC could just throw some raw resources in one end and receive reactors, vehicles, and whatever else they might need out the other, complete with blueprints and instructions on how to maintain and reproduce them. Unfortunately, all known STCs in existence have been either destroyed or have vastly degenerated (as they often included significant AI), and the best the Imperium can hope for is recovering small fragments that include blueprints or manufacturing instructions for individual artifacts. A lot of the most common pieces of technology used in the Imperium are based on such recovered fragments. To give an impression on just how big of a deal these things are: At one point, two imperial soldiers stumbled upon an STC blueprint for an improved combat knife. It was functionally still just a plain old knife, but it was sharper, sturdier, lighter, and cheaper to make than what the Imperium was using at the time. As a reward, both soldiers were declared heroes of the Imperium, and were each gifted an entire planet. Suffice to say, finding a complete, functional, uncorrupted STC is basically the absolute holy grail for the Mechanicus, and arguably the Imperium as a whole.
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Jun 8, 2022 20:15
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Zore posted:They were just 'space dwarves' and their models were really unpopular so they just stopped making new ones and did a throw-away line in the lore about the Tyrannids eating their homeworld to explain it. Apparently they weren't unpopular but GW had no idea what to do with the faction.
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Jun 8, 2022 20:16
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Perestroika posted:While we're on the topic, it might be a good idea to get into Archeotech a bit, since this game might well directly touch onto it. Yeah, I think the importance of the STC can't be understated. I'm thinking back 15-ish years when I was actually into this, but lots of guard equipment is basically STC-derived stuff, and is a major reason the Imperium can actually field such a large number of conventional forces. Somewhere there are STC factories churning out whatever the current pattern Lasgun is by the billions, which are then shipped off to whoever is due to receive new Lasguns this century. Or am I misremembering just how much general equipment relies on STCs these days? Again, I don't think I've read a codex in 15 years, so I probably have some lapses.
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Jun 8, 2022 20:28
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Psycho Landlord posted:40k has two kinds of Skaven - Admech are skryre, the guard are everybody else Are the ratlings in the Guard supposed to be unofficially evolved Skaven? As for the above post, I believe STC is still supposed to be hugely important. They Admech can build the hell out of an STC item, but falter, or at least take a hell of a long time, at developing new tech. Like how even Belisarius Cawl couldn't figure out how to make the Immortus Gland when developing the Primarus Space Marines, and could only figure out how to build half of it in the form of the Magnificat. (I hate that word, GW. I know it means "soul" or something in Latin, but I don't need to be picturing magnificent cats when picturing the Primarus) Bloody Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 21:04
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Warmachine posted:Yeah, I think the importance of the STC can't be understated. I'm thinking back 15-ish years when I was actually into this, but lots of guard equipment is basically STC-derived stuff, and is a major reason the Imperium can actually field such a large number of conventional forces. Somewhere there are STC factories churning out whatever the current pattern Lasgun is by the billions, which are then shipped off to whoever is due to receive new Lasguns this century. The core essential stuff is derived from it, but it is like the lowest of the low. Chimeras are repurposed farming machines. Lasguns were the equivalent of a cheap .22 hunting rifle you'd use to shoot rabbits. There's certain things that maybe 2-3 places in the entire galaxy can produce or repair, and something like the biggest Titans take centuries to make. AdMech are also insane about infosec, and constantly feuding with each other, so there are various "patterns" of things based on where they were made. There's multiple stories of the Imperium finding a Dark Age civilization that never fell and a single planet is able to hold off the might of an entire Crusade Fleet, Space Marines, and AdMech just from turning on their STC settings to "high" and churning out top tier weapons and armor. The resulting outcome is usually the Imperium doing a colony drop on the planet and considering it a wash. This also brings up digital weapons, actual named for being basically rings or something you wear capable of dealing out huge damage, that are/were made by a semi-sentient alien race called the Jokaero. Those usually only show up for nobility or Inquisitors, as a last line of defense/surprise attack thing,
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Jun 8, 2022 21:04
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Captain Oblivious posted:Warhammer 40k is not satire and has not been satire since the 80s. It IS trying to say something about authoritarianism and theocracy being bad but that does not make it satire that just means it has a thesis. The satirical tone was, again, left back in the 80s. The modern tone especially if you delve into any of the Horus Heresy material is way more tragedy. Resurrecting this topic for a moment, I think another problem is that the Imperium is the de facto protagonist faction in 40K. Space Marines are the poster boys for the setting, the 'in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war' spiel at the beginning of most 40K stories is told through the perspective of the Imperium, and in general humanity under this brutal empire gets the most attention. This limits how evil that you can portray the Imperium, since going too far would turn off a lot of potential readers, and limiting their worst aspects will invariably lead to moments where their agents are unambiguously heroic. We'll see how they portray it in this game, though I do think an RPG would give more opportunity to demonstrate how fascist the Imperium can be. Thinking about it now, the best portrayal of the Imperium of Man - a murderous, xenophobic, fascist regime venerating a corpse - isn't even in 40K. It's the Holy Russian Empire from The New Order. You have to go outside 40K to get a good understanding of what it would be like. Sierra Madre fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 22:24
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The only protagonists in 40k are the Lamenters 
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Jun 8, 2022 22:28
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Are the ratlings in the Guard supposed to be unofficially evolved Skaven? No, ratlings are just humans that evolved like they did because their colonies were high gravity high planets, same as the squats. The main difference between the two was the ratling planets were rich agricultural worlds so they're a bit soft and doughy. They're just sci fi Hobbits.
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Jun 8, 2022 22:33
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From Wrath and Glory here is a little thing on the Nature of Machine Spirits, from both Dogma, and a Tech Priest that no long cares much for it, and is teaming up with a Rogue Trader.  
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Jun 9, 2022 01:24
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Aside from the tank sized weapons that can one-shot anyone at the drop of hat in RT, doesn't the w40k game in general emphasize melee? The tabletop game always seemed to have that RPS balance component where charging melee can absolutely gently caress up ranged units once in range, and why Tau having their ludicrous gun range was a big deal because they would straight up melt in physical combat. I think it was posted that in RT melee is high risk high reward, but not any of the mechanics like "charging a lascannon is dumb but if you make it you effortlessly kill the gunners" vs "1v1 melee is dice rolls to see who one-shots who"
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Jun 9, 2022 22:43
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pentyne posted:Aside from the tank sized weapons that can one-shot anyone at the drop of hat in RT, doesn't the w40k game in general emphasize melee? The tabletop game always seemed to have that RPS balance component where charging melee can absolutely gently caress up ranged units once in range, and why Tau having their ludicrous gun range was a big deal because they would straight up melt in physical combat. 40k is very much about melee being a big thing. The FFG's rpg melee system isn't so much high risk/high reward as it is really effective if the engagement range is suitable and due to the nature of the ttrpg, you're never really engaging at super long distances. Melee combatants want both strength (for damage increase) and agility (dodge and movement speed) to really make use of their skill set but they hit like a truck and can get access to decent weapons really early compared to ranged users being stuck with auto guns and lasguns for while due to the excessive cost of bolter ammunition. In Rogue Trader everyone can come out of the gate with some of the best stuff in the game so a melee user can easily start with a power sword/axe and virtually ignore an armour the enemy has. The actual secret best melee option is to be a psyker of some kind though because Force weapons let psykers add their willpower bonus to their damage/armour piercing of weapons plus lets them roll for potential turbo exponential damage letting them have a single super stat. The game system hard caps how much you can ever put into one stat but it's still a handy thing to do. In Rogue Trader Mechanicus characters can be built like absolute tanks and can start with a power axe, later getting a mechanicus special power axe, which makes advancing to melee pretty safe as their damage reduction will let them shrug off anything thats not got huge armour piercing or is essentially an anti-vehicle weapon.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:29
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Psycho Landlord posted:The only protagonists in 40k are the Lamenters Chaos are the frickin good guys, and Land Raiders and Land Speeders are named not for the terrain they operate on but because the dude who found the schematics for them was named "Arkhan Land". The only summary of 40k someone needs.
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Jun 10, 2022 01:16
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Considering the sometimes... interesting notions of alignment that goes into the Pathfinder CRPG's, I wonder if Owlcat's going to use a WH40K version of it in their conversations in this game,. T'au Warrior: "Fine, human. We will join forces to get rid of this greater threat for the Greater Good" 1. (Diplomat) This will benefit both the T'au Empire and the Imperium. 2. (Guarded) Until such time as our greater foe has been vanquished. Afterwards.... is afterwards 3. (Heresy-Khorne) Actually, I changed my mind. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! (Attack) 4. (Radical Inquisitor) Cool. Maybe you can give us some of your hightech stuff? My guardsmen is using a flashlight, I mean a lasgun 5 (Commissar) Foul Xenos! DIE! (BLAM, er.. Attack)
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Jun 10, 2022 02:34
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SirFozzie posted:Considering the sometimes... interesting notions of alignment that goes into the Pathfinder CRPG's, I wonder if Owlcat's going to use a WH40K version of it in their conversations in this game,. I think the trailer implied you can turn heretic if you want, and Rogue Traders already have one foot in that particular grave anyway, having so much freedom. That said, I think a more detailed immorality system would only really be needed if they make a Black Crusade game.
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Jun 10, 2022 04:51
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pentyne posted:Aside from the tank sized weapons that can one-shot anyone at the drop of hat in RT, doesn't the w40k game in general emphasize melee? The tabletop game always seemed to have that RPS balance component where charging melee can absolutely gently caress up ranged units once in range, and why Tau having their ludicrous gun range was a big deal because they would straight up melt in physical combat. From an old post where a goon played out what would happen if an Eversor with a Halo Artifact fought a Bloodthirster using the FFG 40k rules: The Bloodthirster Malathax roared in triumph. The puny rabble before it all lay dead or dying. Now, nothing would stop it from breaching the fortress walls. It cared little for the reasons it had been summoned, or why those who had called it wanted this fortress destroyed, for all it sought was blood for the blood god, and much blood had been shed this day. It knew that within the walls were more battles, and the skull of an Inquisitor, quite the prize compared to the chaff they had sent to delay it. All it had to was break the walls. And, as fate would have it, the walls broke for it. A meltabomb from within the fortress ripped a hole in its defenses, and Malathrax heard a strange keening from within. Before the smoke even had time to clear, a black blur flew screaming from the hole and was upon Malathrax before he could even react. quote:Eversor Initiative: 36 quote:
It didn't stop flailing. quote:Bloodthirster Round 1: The Eversor, exploiting Malathrax's stubbornness, ducked under its swipes and stuck its melta charges on both of its knees. As they exploded, engulfing the daemon in flame and nearly ruining its legs, it slid out of range of the blast, letting out its maddening keening. quote:Round 2: quote:97/85 WP roll for being on fire, Bloodthirster runs around screaming. quote:
------ Inside the fortress, the Inquisitor watched as his little toy ripped its way through the hordes of daemons, never slowing in its eternal killing sprint. It had been quite a challenge to appropriate an Eversor from the Officio Assasinorum without them noticing anything was amiss. It had been even more difficult to bargain his way into possession of a Halo Artifact without the wrong eyes noticing. It had been nearly impossible to keep the Eversor controllable after fusing it with the Halo Artifact, even with cryostasis and hypnotic suggestions. And yet, as he watched a daemonic incursion that could break a thousand regiments fleeing before a single man, he knew that it had all been worth it. _____ Melee gets a little nuts.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:24
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pentyne posted:Aside from the tank sized weapons that can one-shot anyone at the drop of hat in RT, doesn't the w40k game in general emphasize melee? The tabletop game always seemed to have that RPS balance component where charging melee can absolutely gently caress up ranged units once in range, and why Tau having their ludicrous gun range was a big deal because they would straight up melt in physical combat. It varies by edition. In some ranged is superior, in others melee. Last I checked, the current edition kind of fucks over the more ranged focused factions because it's incredibly focused on holding objectives to win, and it's generally far easier to shift an enemy unit off one and replacing it with your own in melee rather than with ranged. Plus, in general the ranged focused factions tend to be more fragile, and the objective focus very much favors those factions with extremely tough, hard to shift units. Or you're Imperial/Chaos Knights, in which case you were initially hosed not only by those overall issues, but by being designed around extremely low model count armies and basically lacking any decent objective scoring unit in the first place.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:43
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Lord Koth posted:It varies by edition. In some ranged is superior, in others melee. Last I checked, the current edition kind of fucks over the more ranged focused factions because it's incredibly focused on holding objectives to win, and it's generally far easier to shift an enemy unit off one and replacing it with your own in melee rather than with ranged. Plus, in general the ranged focused factions tend to be more fragile, and the objective focus very much favors those factions with extremely tough, hard to shift units. In other words, the Tau have been put into a massive trashcan, as they should be  Sure, the Guard and the Sisters (albeit to a lesser extent) get hosed over, but this is 40K, that's their job.Real talk though, does GW have any plans to rectify the above? I admit, I don't have much of a horse in this since I have neither the time nor the money to play the tabletop, but it must be real lovely for people who dropped paychecks on large tabletop ranged armies. Preechr posted:WRYYYYversor The best part is that (assuming the Halo Device has reached the third stage of fusion) the Eversor literally cannot be permanently killed short of dumping his ashes into a star. Even if the Bloodthirster killed him, all that would happen is that the Eversor would explode as normal, and one of the biggest bits would just regenerate back into the dude, at which point Khorne would probably admit that Slaanesh might be on to something (though never admit it; he's a little tsundere* that way) and elevate the Eversor to Princehood  EDIT: *Here's a little warp corruption for you: Khornii-chan 
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Jun 10, 2022 07:33
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CommissarMega posted:EDIT: *Here's a little warp corruption for you: Khornii-chan go to Khornii-Horny jail.
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Jun 10, 2022 09:01
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The thing about ranged and melee is that past a certain point all notions of which is better fly out the window because everything comes down to "do you go first? If so, then win." once you have the right equipment, in the RT system. For instance, one of my players had an ork mek who was able to make a gun that wasted a Greater Demon of Khorne in a single round.
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Jun 10, 2022 09:33
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NewMars posted:The thing about ranged and melee is that past a certain point all notions of which is better fly out the window because everything comes down to "do you go first? If so, then win." once you have the right equipment, in the RT system. For instance, one of my players had an ork mek who was able to make a gun that wasted a Greater Demon of Khorne in a single round. 
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Jun 10, 2022 12:13
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Buschmaki posted:Chaos are the frickin good guys, 
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Jun 10, 2022 12:35
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With the amount of bullshit you could get up to in Wrath of the Righteous with the Mythic Paths, I hope Owlbear just dials everything up to 11 aand let's you go nuts.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:03
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Buschmaki posted:Chaos are the
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Jun 10, 2022 13:13
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Sylphosaurus posted:I see no problem with this whatsoever. Hell, it's pretty much on point for the life goal of an Ork Mek, if you ask me. It was his goal. The campaign ended soon after because he had nowhere else to go with it that I could reasonably run.
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Jun 11, 2022 01:58
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Presumably a companion or major NPC. https://owlcat.games/news/72
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Jun 11, 2022 17:56
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CottonWolf posted:Presumably a companion or major NPC.
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Jun 11, 2022 18:07
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CottonWolf posted:Presumably a companion or major NPC. As the PC's Seneschal, odds are good that he's a companion, as the Seneschal was a PC class in the TTRPG, combining the skills of an accountant and a spymaster in one. One of the better classes too, IIRC, though of course nowhere as devastating as an Explorator.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:17
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Big paladin vibes from his character description. All about rules and order, belief in the nobility of the cause etc.
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Jun 11, 2022 20:15
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pentyne posted:Big paladin vibes from his character description. All about rules and order, belief in the nobility of the cause etc. Are you reading something about the character somewhere else? Because nothing in that link says anything like that - at least in regards to the character. His description is basically exactly what you would expect of a seneschal - one who manages and maintains the day-to-day running of their lord's (or in this case RT's) domain/enterprise, leaving their leader free to concentrate more on big picture items. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 21:38
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pentyne posted:Big paladin vibes from his character description. All about rules and order, belief in the nobility of the cause etc. Seneschal players can be by far the schemiest and shadiest characters of the entire crew
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Jun 11, 2022 22:40
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Lord Koth posted:Are you reading something about the character somewhere else? Because nothing in that link says anything like that - at least in regards to the character. His description is basically exactly what you would expect of a seneschal - one who manages and maintains the day-to-day running of their lord's (or in this case RT's) domain/enterprise, leaving their leader free to concentrate more on big picture items. Just the overall tone and appearance. Older, diligent, fiercely loyal, imperious, officer class naval background (so nobility more or less), comes off like one of those hardcore lawful letter of the law "greater good" paladin types. Being human but also a rogue trader would mean that it's probably not religious at all but heavily driven by trade success, "greater good" being whatever brings in more profit. He's definitely a party member who will turn on you if you go heretic/chaos.
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Jun 11, 2022 22:43
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pentyne posted:Just the overall tone and appearance. Older, diligent, fiercely loyal, imperious, officer class naval background (so nobility more or less), comes off like one of those hardcore lawful letter of the law "greater good" paladin types. Being human but also a rogue trader would mean that it's probably not religious at all but heavily driven by trade success, "greater good" being whatever brings in more profit. Except it doesn't? Even the first paragraph, which is mostly a more romanticised view of Rogue Traders, and nothing about this character specifically, talks about Seneschals as basically handling the dirty work of keeping a Trader dynasty running. Like, most of those artefacts mentioned as the Seneschal being involved in efficiently selling are either going to be archeotech or xenotech, both of which range from very dubiously legal to INCREDIBLY illegal to sell in the Imperium. Not being concerned with the finer details of legality (unless it benefits his employer) is like one of the prime characteristics of a Seneschal, and involves significant interaction with the black market - that portion that caters to the super wealthy in particular. The rest, so the part actually talking about this specific character, is just about how him being highly capable led to him joining your mother's(?) retinue, and now still works to hold things together (again, this isn't going to be by squeaky clean methods) during the dynasty's current difficulties.
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Jun 11, 2022 23:04
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I get how you could have that read in a vacuum but yeah Seneschals aren't really paladiny in any sense and I don't expect this guy to be either. A navy dude who goes Rogue Trader is already someone who jumped ship for profit in the first place, for one.
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Jun 11, 2022 23:55
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From my read of the Rogue Trader core rules, Seneschals basically seem like just Accountants in Space, so I assume they're the overworked and underappreciated workhorses that not only keep everything running, but usually do half of everyone else's jobs when they gently caress up, and are fueled primarily by rage and coffee.
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Jun 12, 2022 00:00
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I take this to mean that your character's last name is von Valancius.
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Jun 12, 2022 03:54
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EclecticTastes posted:From my read of the Rogue Trader core rules, Seneschals basically seem like just Accountants in Space, so I assume they're the overworked and underappreciated workhorses that not only keep everything running, but usually do half of everyone else's jobs when they gently caress up, and are fueled primarily by rage and coffee. They can certainly start out that way, but any good Seneschal would soon graduate to having other people gently caress up and take the blame for them. Also remember that they're usually the ones who handle the Dynasty's finances, making them the shadows behind the throne, so to speak. And coffee? Like a peasant? If you're not humbling anyone apart from the God-Emperor and the High Lords with a single glass from your cellar, can you truly consider yourself part of a Trader Dynasty?
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Jun 12, 2022 06:16
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CommissarMega posted:They can certainly start out that way, but any good Seneschal would soon graduate to having other people gently caress up and take the blame for them. Also remember that they're usually the ones who handle the Dynasty's finances, making them the shadows behind the throne, so to speak. And coffee? Like a peasant? If you're not humbling anyone apart from the God-Emperor and the High Lords with a single glass from your cellar, can you truly consider yourself part of a Trader Dynasty? I'm more of a fan of the kind of character that humbles them with meticulously upkept spreadsheets, and who ensures anyone who doesn't properly fill out their timesheets and invoices finds their way out the nearest airlock. There's a certain level of excess at which point bureaucracy goes from dull to cool, and that's a vibe I enjoy. And nobody is too rich for coffee.
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Jun 12, 2022 07:02
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