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I am incredibly excited for this and I think its both the best and the most insane decision to use the FFG 40k system for this. I adore that system but its a broken mess of insane rocket tag mechanics and clumsy idiots with psykers more likely to blap their own party than help for many levels and its fueled by easy to break mechanisms but goddamn am I excited for it.
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Jun 7, 2022 05:22
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 07:48 |
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pentyne posted:Aside from the tank sized weapons that can one-shot anyone at the drop of hat in RT, doesn't the w40k game in general emphasize melee? The tabletop game always seemed to have that RPS balance component where charging melee can absolutely gently caress up ranged units once in range, and why Tau having their ludicrous gun range was a big deal because they would straight up melt in physical combat. 40k is very much about melee being a big thing. The FFG's rpg melee system isn't so much high risk/high reward as it is really effective if the engagement range is suitable and due to the nature of the ttrpg, you're never really engaging at super long distances. Melee combatants want both strength (for damage increase) and agility (dodge and movement speed) to really make use of their skill set but they hit like a truck and can get access to decent weapons really early compared to ranged users being stuck with auto guns and lasguns for while due to the excessive cost of bolter ammunition. In Rogue Trader everyone can come out of the gate with some of the best stuff in the game so a melee user can easily start with a power sword/axe and virtually ignore an armour the enemy has. The actual secret best melee option is to be a psyker of some kind though because Force weapons let psykers add their willpower bonus to their damage/armour piercing of weapons plus lets them roll for potential turbo exponential damage letting them have a single super stat. The game system hard caps how much you can ever put into one stat but it's still a handy thing to do. In Rogue Trader Mechanicus characters can be built like absolute tanks and can start with a power axe, later getting a mechanicus special power axe, which makes advancing to melee pretty safe as their damage reduction will let them shrug off anything thats not got huge armour piercing or is essentially an anti-vehicle weapon.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:29
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Pewdiepie posted:They say the third time is the charm. Maybe on this third iteration, owlcat games will manage to make a game that is worth playing all the way through. It's not using the pathfinder system as its underlying mechanics so I'm hoping due to the nature of the ffg systems you're not going up against hell walls of enemies that spike in difficulty dramatically. Theres no real equivalent to high AC enemies in the system. The closest is that enemies can have really high either armour (damage reduction) or high dodge (chance to avoid an attack entirely). Dodges are limited to 1 attack per round normally with some enemies/players getting 2 so its something that is just bypassed by raw focus fire. High Armour is defeated purely by weapon penetration so you can't really spike that without having the gear available to do it. Neither is something that is bypassed by needing to build your character a certain way or anything ala pathfinder's infinite spell resistance/damage reduction/immunities/saves. It'll be interesting to see what gets ported over vs what doesn't but ideally the general core resolution logic and mechanics like that are kept the same. Removing a lot of the rocket tag and groping for environmental modifiers since thats difficult to implement in a crpg. kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 02:08
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Terrible Opinions posted:I don't know if it was in Rogue Trader but a bunch of mooks with cheap automatic weapons was a real meat grinder in Dark Heresy. Full Auto weapons in general were loving terrifying in the pre-Black Crusade/Only War ruleset. They decided to give you a big bonus to hit when firing on full auto and the better the roll the more bullets hit in general which was a problematic double reward system making it the default choice. It became a dogshit way of attacking anything wearing some heavier armour but early on when players dont have much more than flak armour its really dangerous. Popete posted:Well poo poo, now I want to play a Dark Heresy video game. Dark Heresy is a somewhat busted and dated ruleset but holy poo poo is it so much fun and I would kill for a investigation game using it as a base. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you know how everything in the 40k universe is measured in 'number of imperial guardsmen it can kill' CommissarMega posted:Pretty much, and even on the dicerolling it's less 'optimizing my character' and more 'using the environment and surprise to my advantage'. Seriously, one of the biggest paradigm shifts for someone used to other roleplaying games is that while your character's stats do matter, the environment you engineer and tactics they present are worth far, far more. If you're in a fair fight of any kind, something's gone wrong somewhere. To extrapolate a lot of the general memes about this game into how it's supposed to work in reality. While there is a general idea that rank 1 Dark Heresy characters suck, they only are bad in terms of stand up fights in a D&D style 'roll initiative' type game when everything in the system is screaming at you not to do this. The game works on a 1d100 system that takes a base stat + bonuses from the skill you a using + any special talent or gear you have + environmental and situational bonuses or penalties. You need to roll equal to or under the number you just worked out there. The idea is that anyone knows immediately what their chances of succeeding are. What catches people out is that a starting character begins with anywhere from 20s-40s in their stat and maybe has the skill trained (meaning no penalty to use it rather than any bonuses). So Jeff the level 1 imperial guardsman has say a 35 Ballistic Skill and at a glance you think if that wants to shoot his lasgun at a heretic you have a 35% chance to hit but in reality you're adding a lot to it. You are using a lasgun which is really long range so you're likely adding +10 from range (because the long range means that the weapons short range is really large too). Maybe you're ambushing the target so thats another +30, maybe you have a red dot sight so thats another +10 etc. You take that regular low number and with setup and prep and planning, you're suddenly needing to roll under a 85 to hit which is pretty drat reliable. Most of the game's system is like this. Another confusing part was that the default 'difficulty' of a task people assumed was to add +0 to it (i.e. you're getting no bonus or penalty to the roll you are about to make). The problem is that game describes this as something you do when a task is 'challenging' while an 'ordinary' difficulty check (i.e. something your character would typically know how to do) gives the player a +10 to the roll. The game is supposed to give you a passive +10 on most things you try but people miss this and combined with a system that depends upon lots of situation and environmental bonuses to activity and it results in Rank 1 Dark Heresy character often being clown shoe incompetents. On the flip side of that. The game scales in power drastically later on. The full auto weapon problem is something that just ravages lower level/lower armour enemies but once you're up to wearing carapace (if you have a good toughness bonus which gives passive damage reduction) and especially power armour. You are literally immune to the vast majority of small arms fire and even bolt weapons to a lesser extent. kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 02:18
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Janissary Hop posted:If my eyes are glazing over looking at this stuff I can only imagine what's going on at Owlcat HQ right now They've been converting Pathfinder across, a game a thousand times more complex with far more moving parts. The big thing that will kinda break how they make games is that Rogue Trader is game system where you are trying to avoid fighting. Your characters are super fragile and due to the wealth mechanic (you dont have money in the system per say you have 'profit factor' which is more about your large scale purchasing power) you're using the rocket tag super weapons pretty early. You dont really increase your defensive power much (power armour will do a good job of negating small arms power but other than that and end game shields theres no good jumps) and your characters dont really gain more health outside of buying a specific +1 to health that shows up on. It doesn't naturally have mechanic for dnd style encounter chains and a lot of the abilities and skill you buy are about investigation, diplomacy etc to avoid a firefight at all.
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Dec 5, 2022 03:44
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LGD posted:players having powerful weapons early doesn’t matter though, since that has nothing to do with what other people are shooting at you, something that is entirely within their control as a matter of campaign/encounter design (though admittedly that probably would represent a shift in Owlcat's approach) A lasgun, the most basic starting low tier weapon in the system, does 1d10+3 with Semi-Auto. The basic stuff is pretty threatening to anyone not weaking guard flak armour or carapace. The intent of the FFG system is to make combat be a game of stacking your opening modifiers so it all resolves very quickly with some rocket tags. I'm not saying and never said they won't have to change stuff. They've already said they're going to. What I was suggesting is that the system they are adapting is very much in contrast to what they've historically done, focusing on a combat and loot driven rpg. Something in contrast to Rogue Trader. Issaries posted:There's no endless iteration of magic items with modifiers to feed players. You start with great equipment and maybe get upgrade or two during a long campaign per character. Also a big part of the 'loot treadmill' is more about working out if you can get 1,000 or 10,000 lasguns to arm a noble house thats going to give you complete mining rights if you help them lead a coup on some backwater planet.
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Dec 5, 2022 11:03
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Jack Trades posted:Do we know anything about what system they're going to be using? Please tell me it's going to be something less stupid than Pathfinder. It's based on the Fantasy Flight Games 'Rogue Trader' ttrpg. Thought that game, as discussed just a bit up thread, doesn't do well with the Owlcat style D&D combat encounter structure. They've already said they are making changes from that system but for the most part thats likely what its coming from. That systems a class based, spend xp from tables that are unlocked at xp breakpoints (so 1000 xp spent unlock access to table 2 etc), big rocket tag combat, money system is a large scale 'profit factor' financial mechanic. The default assumption of the ttrpg is you start with a warship capable of levelling cities with thousands of troops and crew living on a generational ship under your command. kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 7, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 00:52
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frajaq posted:you can feel the "traces" of previous pathfinder game in this lol How many levels of fighter do you think Commissar Yarrick has? Obviously I was expecting them to change things about the combat system specifically (the 38hp for example would be impossible to get even at a super high xp Rogue Trader game) but yeah that definitely raises some questions about what is being implemented and how. kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 7, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 01:16
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 07:48 |
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EclecticTastes posted:"Fighter" could also refer to fighter craft, which would imply the 15 would refer to the complement of fighters the character can deploy/command in space combat (you know this game is going to have space combat). Also, looking over the sheet, it looks pretty accurate to core Rogue Trader rules? As for the little blocks on the right, it looks like they break down as follows: Thats a pretty bizarre take, placing that number under 'features' and next to the portrait with a filling bar akin to xp. Also fighter craft are something most ships in Rogue Trader don't even use and 15 is a huge number for squadron count (and tiny for individual fighters) unless you're in a ship thats loaded with squadron bays and very few lance or macrocannons. It's okay if they've transitioned to a more fixed levelling system because a combat focused take on this game would really want to make sure you have some minimum threshold of power you're hitting , which the xp spend system would present the idea that you can go completely non-combat capable. Though Fighter is a weird name for it. BrotherJayne posted:Wow, 38 hp? The virgin chaos space marine vs the chad rogue trader. kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 7, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 02:00
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