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The problem I have with the 'needs a year or two' argument is that you'd have to do a lot of rewriting, plus you'd also have to, y'know, not just railroad you into supporting the rebels for no reason as a specific example. How long had it even been in development before this, as a curiousity thing?
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Aug 8, 2022 19:23
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Randalor posted:The overall plot doesn't seem that lacking in direction when you take a very large step back, it's just that it feels like they wrote a rough-draft for the story progression beats, then just wrote around those specific points, probably from start to finish without going back and revising earlier text so it matches any new plot elements they think up later on, and rather than trimming down chaff quests, they just leave a metric ton of "Bring me 10 bear asses" quests in the game. There is absolutely zero proof in the writing of the game that adding two extra years would result in anything but more idiocy. I don't think one major plot beat gets properly progressed (I could be wrong, I am skimming most of this crap) and I am loathe to blame "time constraints". poo poo, in the age of Steam returns people at least try to polish the hell out of the "free" two hours of gameplay, here you just get nonsensical crap from the start. Just read the first three or so updates, spot how much bad storytelling could be fixed in like 10 minutes by a couple additional lines or minor changes and then think about what would happen with two extra years. My bet is on more stupid bear rear end quests and non-functional but "cool" features like strongholds that have no bearing on the game at large. Like literally half of the early grievances with the plot can be fixed by find and replacing "maid" with "squire", that's how low the bar is. TitanG fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 19:58
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I have to agree with TitanG here, this team cannot fix this plot. I don't even know who the primary antagonist of this game is. It can't be Aldnar because he stops being an antagonist in part 4. It can't be Zoria because we encounter her cult once and then they all commit suicide by demon. It's not Zornilsa, since we encounter her/her agent exactly once and no part of her goals are at odds with our goals. Is it Rothgor? We've never met Rothgor, but my understanding is that if you join Aldnar (who is working for Rothgor) you get sent to Rothgor's realm to "stop the pact" anyway. Even if we're generous to the plot and take a big step back it's still not very good. Rothgor and Zornilsa curse the king/the land with greed and the king's greedy overreach causes a civil war. We are personally chosen by the gods to do "something" which turns out to be breaking the curse so that a greater evil may arise. It's a plot, but it's about nothing. The war and the GREED are resplved separately with no hint they're intertwined or the game going beyond the bare minimum of commenting on how greed and war are linked. However, we know how this game would have turned out after 2 years because we're seeing what they're doing with the postrelease updates and its a mess. The insipid party banter as well as Bjalla and Jade's emnity from nowhere were both added in patch updates, and this game was in early access in 2021. Reading the developer chat on the Steam forums is weird, because the developers have the official party line they had to release Black Geyser early to recoup their investment, but they also acknowledge every single sidequest is poo poo.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:06
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Rothgor and Zornilsa curse the king/the land with greed Ah but remember, there is no curse! They are just being, uh.....haunted by spirits in a way that is definitely not like a curse!
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Aug 8, 2022 22:46
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It's odd I dug into reviews for this game pretty good as I was actually considering getting it, and what I read then was enough to make me not want to commit to it. But those reviews in no way mention the complete incompetence of the story, characters, and narrative details instead focusing on the "old school" game play and how it needed QoL changes. I wonder if any of those guys ever finished it, or maybe it was post-EA updates that made it this bad.
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Aug 9, 2022 00:19
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I've read enough fiction, popular and otherwise, to realise that 90% of people would read regurgitated alphabet soup and be satisfied by it as long as it executes enough tropes. Most just turn off their brains completely and glaze over the words a bit before getting to the tits/blood/drama.
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Aug 9, 2022 12:30
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I have no idea how anyone thought the Jade/Bjalla thing was a good idea
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Aug 10, 2022 08:28
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I have no idea how anyone thought the Jade/Bjalla thing was a good idea Conflict between party members can be a good thing and having to choose between two opposing characters can also be a good thing. Black Geyser's team know this much, but never realised that it's only a good thing if there's been enough party interaction for it to make sense and for you to actually be invested and have a reason to care, and also if it doesn't come completely out of the blue and gently caress you over mechanically. This whole game is basically a list of tropes they know are good, with absolutely no understanding of why they work or how to make the story support them.
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Aug 10, 2022 08:33
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loving cargo cult design, if thing A was good in that other game then it will do here! Nevermind all the work that other game did to make thing A shine and fit in with the rest of the plot.
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Aug 10, 2022 08:41
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I don't even want to see the King Totally-Wasn't-Cursed-Therefore-Was-Just-Acting-Like-A-Dick-Til-You-Saved-His-Literal-rear end fight now, not if it means TGEK has to suffer through that loving temple again.
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Aug 10, 2022 10:38
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I feel like whatever writer added all the 'sassy' responses to these exposition dumps really dropped the ball on the whole "it's not a curse!" thing. "Oh, so the Curse of Greed, this widespread phenomenon, caused by evil gods, where ghosts spew from the Black Geyser and make people mad with greed which supposedly is a threat to civilization is not, by technical definition, a curse? Do you have anything to add beside pedantry in our hour of need?" Remember, after the talk to the Pendulum the fact that it's malign spirits isn't new information and we already know that we'll need to close the breach and not just, I don't know, cast Remove Curse at it.
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Aug 11, 2022 05:25
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Psykmoe posted:I feel like whatever writer added all the 'sassy' responses to these exposition dumps really dropped the ball on the whole "it's not a curse!" thing. This is the same game where the Pendulum told us the Pact Prophecy and then we had to go through the temple and fight a Stunlock Lich to confirm the prophecy and literally no one asked to look at it.
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Aug 11, 2022 06:04
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Hamlin's Weird Fetishes Welcome back! Last time on Black Geyser we apparently screwed up the conditions to get a one night stand with Isla (what a terrible loss) who also told us that we needed to go into the Black Geyser right now and go save the world, but first we had to go to King Velianrick's castle and personally oversee peace talks and this was more important than saving the world from imminent destruction. Oh, also, the curse isn't really a curse, it's just the spirits of the damned who are mind controlling people to be greedy. Also, we need to get divine assistance but no one will tell us how, because the Pendulum is a useless moron. We're going to ignore all that poo poo for a bit and go deal with something else.  Remember how Hamlin made a big deal of how he got robbed by those three guys but he didn't want to look weak in front of the Thieves' Guild and also lost the painting of our stepmother? We're going to conclude that today.  This is all voice acted and it's acted by an intern trying to sound like a robot. I really question why the developers used voice actors at all - almost everything you read about this game is that it was made on a small budget, and instead of coming up with a coherent plot or less overcomplicated game mechanics for no reason they went with this. I think it's cargo culting. Tyranny's voice acting is stellar, but the voice actors also have something to work with. Likewise, Age of Decadence doesn't have any voice acting, but the writing is strong enough (for an RPG) and it has real ideas behind it.  : I'd love to witness how the Guild punishes this kind of thing. : As would I, Inta Rume. Who doesn't like a good old-fashioned flaying! Let's go pay a visit to the Guild, shall we? Their headquarters are located in the general store on Market Street.Off to the capital.   Lendel is the only named character in the Thieves' Guild, so of course we talk to him. : ... : What the cobblestones tell, the house already knows. But a cat doesn't cry when a mouse gets stepped on.: The trap is empty and the mouse still wants his cheese.: Three birds are in the wind. If they end up in a stew, a door will open.: A stew... Perhaps there's another key for this lock?Is this really the slang used by dangerous, violent criminals?  : Okay, what do we do next?: I need to deal with the three thieves - execute them - myself to make good with the Guild... Oh no! A trolley problem! Ring ring! RING RING! It's weird, because Hamlin literally described them as the crab bucket who sabotaged his efforts to get a real job. Also options 2 and 4 are hilariously and stupidly psychopathic. : Then we had better pay your old friends a visit.: Yes, let's. We can find them in the old cemetery off Greybark Square. Oh, huh, you seem to have magical glowing swords indicating you're an appropriate encounter?  Naturally, we will never question how Jacob knows who we are.    In other words, he had a vision from the developers. He just kind of mentioned it awkwardly. It would make more sense if he knew their old hideouts from his friendship with them, but seeing as Jacob was super surprised I don't even know. : It never occurred to me before how convenient it would be to kill someone in a graveyard.: I know it was you who ambushed me and stole the painting.Jacob: Ambush, ha. Wasn't any harder than pushing a child off a stump. It occurs to me that for all the drama about "will Hamlin kill his old friends" this quest desperately wants to set up, we've learned nothing about them aside from his few screens of expository dialogue. We certainly haven't gotten anything like "I learned this trick from Vorynne".  Of course, this is hilarious as between then and now Hamlin has, with us: -gone into a mine infested by necromancers and flesh eating ghouls and killed them -stormed the plague ridden city of Deron-Guld and fought and killed the demonically empowered Aldnar -killed a "Shadowfury Demon" -fought an ancient lich -fought the "greediest man ever" in his fortress and killed him : Yes, a joke, haha. Did you know that painting was the property of the Guild? And they're really a very humorless lot over there. They didn't find it funny at all. Of course, this could have been entirely avoided if Hamlin hadn't run off to sell the painting on his own like a moron. Jacob: So what if it belonged to the Guild? They can go buy it off Duchess Kjarvalr if they want it so bad. Vorynne: We've been giving them the ghost for years. ... do you mean giving them the slip? Giving up the ghost is dying. Is this supposed to characterize Vorynne as a dumbass, or is it just bad writing? You decide!  Ok, I am going to absolutely loving despise myself for this comparison, but you know what? Even Tides of Numenera did this poo poo better. For those of you who have wisely spared yourself Numenera, there's this companion Tybir who is looking for his ex boyfriend for really stupid reasons. You find the man who murdered him over a child's toy and you can try to talk down or stop Tybir, but you actually have to TRY to stop him with a skill check and if you fail he murders the guy.  The quest is overall dumb and masturbatory pandering to a kickstarter backer's OC Do Not Steal evil spider demon/crime mastermind, but that part at least made sense. Here Hamlin admits he's been mugged by these guys and they suck, but is now questioning what to do as they straight up tell him he's a little punk and they're the only thing standing between him and his lifelong ambition of being a masterless man by joining an organized crime syndicate. : If you are unsure, maybe we should take some time to reconsider. Wow! Even these guys are calling out what an indecisive useless dumbass Hamlin is. Sure, he's good in a fight by virtue of being an RPG character, but as a character he's kind of terrible and inept. He would absolutely have been beaten to death by that merchant if we hadn't intervened, he got mugged by these three morons and... that's about it, really.  The moral "dilemma" here has the obvious solution - we don't like these people, they're standing in our way, and at this point in the game our protagonist has slaughtered hundreds of people for coin.  Are you just going to take that? These guys may have "raised" you, but they turned on you in minutes. Yea, I'm not having a vote on this.  You know, writers, when you call out that Hamlin is basically a passive observer in his own quest it's kind of hilariously embarrassing. Remember, when we met Hamlin, he was perfectly willing to fight and kill us to retrieve that painting so he could join the Guild for power or something.  The game wants us to believe he has an emotional attachment to Larry, Moe, and Curly here but it just doesn't work because they treat him like poo poo and he has nothing good to say about him. For this to work they'd have to show some guilt over what they did to Hamlin, or claim they were blackmailed into it, or didn't recognize him, or something, but even this game's shoddy writing makes it quite clear these guys never cared about Hamlin except as a criminal accomplice. Hamlin's Maudlin Backstory posted:
It's a crab bucket all the way down.  Sorry Nurt, your one reasonable line is not going to change this. : These three attacked you in the street and made you a fool. Not even the beggars will respect you if you don't do something about it. You only have one option. You know what it is. Because the dilemma is so shallow it's impossible to read as "Hamlin is conflicted about slaying his abusive family to realize his ambition" and more that he's lazily abrogating his moral thought process to Espen. There's no pushback, Hamlin never actually grows as a character and instead we step in and make all his decisions for him like a legal guardian acting with power of attorney for a mentally incompetent adult.  It sure was polite of these three to stand around waiting for the relatively famous Espen and Bjalla to murder them all.   They go down like chumps.  They're legitimately carrying assassin's gear on them to trivialize the moral "dilemma" even further. Oh no, not more dead murderers in our RPG where we have to cut down bad guys by the hundred!  Hamlin has nothing to say about the murders of his friends of course. Back to the Thieves' Guild!  : The three birds ended up in the stew.: Ah, she seems to have caught on. I really don't like it when the game desperately tries to fellate the player. : Ahem! Anyway, welcome to the Guild, Hamlin! Now that you've fulfilled your task, I can make you a full member.: What? Doesn't one have to complete a thieving task to be admitted to the Thieves Guild? I'm sorry, what? How? How did the Thieves Guild get the king to agree to that? Are they secretly royal enforcers? The game also doesn't really have a commentary on how Hamlin is a moronic inept thief who is now a proficient assassin. : Yes, it was brutal. Hard to believe you went through with it. The voice "actor" gets even more monotone. "Tramp" is not voice acted, as presumably you get a different insult as a man.  Oh, uh, yea, we just screwed up Hamlin's romance. It's hilarious, because he's never really done anything like flirting with the player. Well, let's go reload and see this amazing love story, shall we?  : They earned their fate. They... they weren't close to you, Hamlin! They literally left you for years (remember, they're described as orphan children) then when you got mildly successful they violently assaulted you on the street and stole the painting you badgered Inta into giving you. : You're not alone. The two of use are close, aren't we? I was hoping we could get closer. "They were my only friends. But i killed them. I know! I will hop into bed with the woman who encouraged me to murder my friends so I could become a street thug! Boyoyoyoying!" : Yes, I'm sure.  We get another fade to black as it's heavily implied we bone down in the Basement O' Larceny. Why do I get the feeling the writer for this game continually got dumped for proposing sex at a Waffle House? : How do we carry on from here? Having taken Hamlin's virginity he will now fight to the death. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
It's amazing how little sense none of this makes. I actually buy the friends being hateful and resentful, go read The White Tiger on the Rooster Cage and how all of Indian society collaborates to keep the poor down. The three morons being jealous of Hamlin for having a real job and not smelling like poo poo is on par, although I'm kind of shocked none of them thought to get money out of him first. The real problem is that Hamlin comes across as a psychopathic murderer who was just looking for semi-official approval to murder these people. Earlier in the game posted:
It's somewhat inconsistent with his prior characterization where he stole nearly exclusively from the rich but sympathized with the poor, as thin and cliched as it was. The game wants us to believe that Hamlin is a cunning street survivor who hates the rich and wants to join the Thieves Guild because he values his independence, but he attaches himself to the player like a remora. We are to believe he's grateful for the friends who raised him yet he never seems to show any affection or demonstrate it in any way, and his reaction is to go to the Thieves Guild and request their deaths, only showing any sort of concern when it turns out that he, and not some faceless assassin, is expected to dispose of them. This causes a bunch of inconsistent whiffling - where Hamlin had previously been portrayed as a strong willed character who was willing to fight the player - a benefactor who had helped him escape a deserved beating - to the death. Yet when we actually reach these friends it takes only the mildest of pushes to convince him that he - a man who nominally values his independence - should abandon whatever principles he has left and kill on command. Hamlin jumping into bed with the player character after lamenting that you talked him into murdering all his friends is just icing on top. What's more damning to me is the sheer amount of squandered potential. I'll be the first to admit that nothing about this game is competently written, but there are a lot of parallels between Hamlin and the player character. Both characters are raised with a constant sense of inferiority - Hamlin as a street urchin, Espen as a servant denied their birthright. Both characters face the choice to kill their surviving families - Hamlin these three, and Espen Aldnar. A better writer would have these characters examine these similarities and maybe lean on each other to get through them, but the Black Geyser writers have continually proven to be completely unable to create anything that parallels the human experience in any way. If you look on their website or their game manual there are endless attempts at writing fake myths and deep diving into fantasy bullshit, but the human element is entirely soulless. Zornilsa is not greedy because of a character flaw, but because she needs greed to survive or some nonsense. There was a short argument in the thread over whether this game could have been better with more time, and this questline disproves it. This quest was not in the original game. It is not coherent with Hamlin's preexisting characterization or with any sort of actual human motive. What a joke. Next time: Peace talks, for real.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:16
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: Huh, I recognize the player character on sight for some reason. OH poo poo IT'S HAMLIN!
: Ahhh!
: Holy poo poo Jacob you didn't mention we were crossing organized crime, you just said it was "Hamlin that useless dumbass".
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That was the funniest update by far, that 'drama' is somehow more shallow than in a Tim and Eric sketch.
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Aug 15, 2022 08:36
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Oh my God the thieves' guild metaphors. The really hilarious part is that it actually works as a deadpan comedy bit. I could 100% see the guildmaster (or whoever that was supposed to be) delivering those very lines, kind of a cross between stereotypical 20's gangster schlock and Leslie Nielsen, and it winds up being genuinely funny. Well done devs! You accidentally wrote pretty good comedy that flew over your own heads. I am in awe.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:28
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Pretty sure that the thieves cant is just ripped from one of the Baldur's Gate games. At first I was gonna say it was a riff on cockney slang, but then I vaguely remember seeing something similar in an old BG LP.
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Aug 15, 2022 12:02
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Ah, yet another plotline ripped from somewhere else and thrown onto the board with no attempt to link it to anything that's already happened or give the player a reason to care. Black Geyser, everyone.
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Aug 15, 2022 13:31
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I'm (vaguely) reminded of the Discworld, where the Thieves Guild acts with (sort of) legal authority: thievery is a union job, and every citizen is allotted a certain amount that they'll be robbed of. Which is calculated as part of their taxes, so they can just go down to the Guild, pay up front, and get a card that says they can't be robbed. Also, any theft performed by non-union thieves is punished very heavily. The kind of punishment that leaves ears nailed to walls and such. What I'm saying is, the idea of a legitimate Thieves Guild has been done before, and much much better than this.
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Aug 15, 2022 14:35
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The only thing I can think of for why they would be above the law while on guild business is that they were intended to be a spy (and assassination?) organization for the kingdom. But that's something that might be vaguely interesting, so probably not what would happen in Black Geyser.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:23
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Breadmaster posted:I'm (vaguely) reminded of the Discworld, where the Thieves Guild acts with (sort of) legal authority: thievery is a union job, and every citizen is allotted a certain amount that they'll be robbed of. Which is calculated as part of their taxes, so they can just go down to the Guild, pay up front, and get a card that says they can't be robbed. Also, any theft performed by non-union thieves is punished very heavily. The kind of punishment that leaves ears nailed to walls and such. That only works in Discworld because it's a comedy setting, if they tried that setup here we'd all be asking what would stop the "official" thieves from just stealing more than is allowed, like the real world cops do.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:30
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The thing that makes that happen on the Discworld is that Vetinari still has a strong body of armed guards and influence over the nobles and their armed guards and knows where the guild heads and officers live and where their kids go to school. (So basically the same mechanism as the Disco Elysium cops, who are entrusted by the occupying forces to do cop poo poo but aren't trusted a whit. It doesn't eliminate the graft and crime on their end, but it does limit it, because others are doing it instead of them.)
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Aug 15, 2022 16:58
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Also the Guild themselves enforce it, because they're benefitting from the system as well; less risk, guaranteed income, no chance of execution. So if any of their thieves rock the boat they get dealt with before outside enforcement can step in.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:32
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I just want to point out that despite being the only criminal organization apparently allowed to run around Market Street, Baflodac's gang is somehow all still up and running despite the Thieves' Guild being legally empowered to just murder them. There's a brief reference to Baflodac having at least one friend among the nobility, but the game portrays the slums of Greybark Square as a place the king's men just don't go for... reasons. It is insane to me that Velianrick, who so far has been portrayed as a power hungry greedy king who brooks no challenge to his authority, allows an organized crime ring to have legal immunity down two blocks from the royal guard barracks.
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Aug 15, 2022 18:56
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Baflodac like, "BafomDad" was a legendarily bad name from Star Fox Adventures and we're not that far from it on the other hand it's not that far from Balzac which is a real name so I guess I'm being too hard on this guy who is named like a loving car insurance company
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Aug 15, 2022 19:14
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It's the fricative sound that doesn't belong there IMO. Balodac is silly but still a lot better than Baflodac.
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Aug 15, 2022 19:59
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Baflodac sounds like some sort of medication.
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Aug 15, 2022 20:15
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Black Robe posted:Baflodac sounds like some sort of
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Aug 15, 2022 20:21
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Unwanted Negotiations Welcome back! Last time we encouraged Hamlin to self-actualize his quest for freedom by murdering all his friends and then, having watched him become an emotionless assassin, seduced him into becoming our slave for life. Today we're going to go do the peace talks. Remember how Isla said there was little time until the Black Geyser somehow, uh, destroyed the world and then told us to go do the peace talks? It turns out you don't unlock Castle Alastor (the final dungeon with said Geyser) until you clear this up, so... here we are!  Let's talk to Alumu, who is here as a "neutral observer" despite being allied with the King. Fun fact, you can get her to militarily intervene in the battle that would replace this if you were too evil or greedy. : Thank you. I'm simply glad these troubles are almost behind us. : I wonder if that is true, though. There is always calm in the eye of a storm.I just want to reiterate right now that Deron-Guld is in no shape to actually fight, having lost most of their population to a zombie plague and both their military commanders. The War Council owe their lives to the king's mercy right now, as Aldnar probably would have found some excuse to kill them.  uuuuuugh  Do you have any actual leverage over us here? : I'm listening.: It is a simple task for one with your negotiating savvy.In other words, we need to flatter the player they're a pro negotiator when we've been ping ponged around from allegiance to allegiance.  You owe allegiance to a foreign power, ma'am.  Jade the last time we got you a tiara it was cursed and we had to deal with the world's dumbest ghost. The astute observer will notice that Alumu offers us exactly nothing for this. : You seem like a capable negotiator. Why don't you speak for yourself? But you're not a neutral observer. You're a representative of a foreign power allied with the king. Yes, you sent medics to Deron-Guld, but your military power is behind the king. Did Aldnar kill all the editors? : I would be very surprised if His Majesty agrees to such an arrangement. I'm pretty sure Alumu is lying her rear end off her as neither the king nor Deron-Guld's guys mention this, but it's Black Geyser and causality has no meaning here. : And you think they would accept an outsider into a position of power? Remember the RIllow War in the manual? I remember.  : What specifically would you like me to do? Unfortunately there's no "I do not believe I can sell this" option to let her down gently. : I'll do what I can, but I cannot promise results.: I eagerly await the outcome. The talks are about to begin. Best make your preparations.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 The War Council are all useless idiots so I'm gonna cut this short. They want the king to pay for their reconstruction - which, remember, wasn't caused by the king's armies, but by Aldnar, their own colleague and military commander - they want the king to stop raising taxes on everywhere not the capital, and they want to curtail the power of the monarchy by putting themselves in parliament. I really want to pick the last option, because while the king's tyranny seemed to consist of having high taxes on the rich (the horror!) the nobility of Deron-Guld has, so far: -Helped Aldnar murder his own and our father -Promoted Aldnar like a moron even though he wouldn't shut up about worshipping Satan -Dragged the common folk of Deron-Guld into a war Lord Frelsi hinted they didn't all support -Lost most of their soldiers to the plague started by their own commander -Done absolutely nothing as Lord Frelsi, the only guy who seemed to give a poo poo about the actual people of Deron-Guld, was accused of bullshit demonic influence charges and executed. This brings us right back to the game's commentary on class, and ultimately aside from Hamlin and Jade the commoners really don't exist in this game. By and large they don't have names and we don't meet any common soldiers. Even Lord Espen, who is apparently respected by Lord Frelsi for his integrity, thinks nothing of ordering his soldiers to fight to the death while he entraps himself further. Earlier in the game posted:Now, Lord Frelsi seemed to actually care about the people of Deron-Guld by doing things like educating his maid, trying to stop the Zorians from murdering his people, and sending the player to go rescue some sellswords he could have easily just let die. This is the closest the game ever gets to anything resembling noblesse oblige, and it's hard not to conclude the king and the nobility are a bunch of useless assholes who all need to go - but because there are almost no commoners present in the game, it turns into the Star Trek fantasy of eternal free stuff without labor. The nobility drags the land into war because they don't want to pay taxes, but no fields are pillaged, no men are conscripted, and all of the soldiers are literally able to spawn in from thin air if you try to do something like attacking Aldnar. Infinity Guards! posted:Remember these guys? It's even funnier if you remember that they nerfed all the physical resistance so we can't tank waves of them anymore, but it is part of the game as presented! The game never specifies where these jerks come from, so for all we know Aldnar cloned them in a basement with Satan powers. Lord Frelsi mentions "conscripts" briefly as a lame handwave for how no one was able to stop Aldnar from screwing the rebellion by murdering a bunch of potential allies.  Oh gently caress off!  I know the thread hates the king, but I'm going to be honest, I hate the rebels more. : I did my part, Your Majesty. It was little enough. : Oh, but I disagree. The counsel you offered the crown could not have come at a more critical time. Dark thoughts had enveloped me and threatened my judgement, but your wisdom helped clear my mind and see the way to a peaceful resolution of this conflict. : Why is the contingent from the Eastern Empires here? I'm very confused. Is the Garden a big embassy or what exactly - gently caress it. : What points remain to be settled? : What does the crown hope to gain from this summit? : What outcome is the crown hoping to achieve regarding the new form of government, monetary policy, and the rebuilding of Deron-Guld? He's really not wrong! Not only did these idiots betray the crown, they did it in the service of a man who willingly followed Satan.  Again the king is spitting straight fire here. I cannot emphasize enough that these idiots destroyed their own city. The royal armies never made it to Deron-Guld, in fact the only battle we see evidence of is outside the capital. The city's population was destroyed by the plague caused by... Aldnar. This also raises the question of what exactly needs to be rebuilt? Earlier in the game posted:It's not like the plague or the zombies actually damaged any of the buildings. The mines don't seem to have collapsed either after we cleared all the necromancers out. Heck, the great battle we brought Isla to didn't even have any of the buildings damaged! Now, people were dying in the streets but all those houses and whatnot should still be there. You just need more people. Offer tax breaks for working in the mines? Encourage immigration? Free Viagra? Hell if I know!  : I'm ready to begin, Your Majesty.: Splendid. Let the proceedings commence. Stand by for  .: The war has been difficult and lengthy, an exhausting trial both of blood and treasure. I sincerely hope the nobles of the Iron City are prepared to talk peace. Thanks Bjalla. : Let no one here fear for their lives or safety. You have my word that the well being of everyone at this summit is sancrosanct. Ha ha.  : Good lords, noble ladies, the first item to be addressed is the rebuilding of Deron-Guld.: The rebel council of Deron-Guld has agreed to cease hostilities against the crown in exchange for certain assurances regarding the future of the city.: Lord Blythe, please state your terms for the assembly. : Assembled nobleman, noblewomen and delegates, I am Lord Blythe of Deron-Guld. Your Majesty, the council thanks you sincerely both for your hospitality and for your diligent effort to bring these parties together, that we may resolve our differences without further bloodshed. What damage, lol?     So here's where playing as a fighter fucks us over. If you can pass an intelligence check you can suggest here that the crown should make a big loan to Deron-Guld: they get the money, the king gets a profit, and Bjalla, the King, and Lord Blythe fall all over themselves to say how smart you are. I won't lie, when I played this the first time I mindlessly clicked all the "intelligence" options. : Deron-Guld must have the freedom to determine her own future. Let the council rebuild as they see fit, but grant them a suspension of regular taxes until the mines are producing at full capacity again. Since the requested help from Isilbright, in the form of engineers, healers, et cetera would speed this process, His Majesty should grant it. But Deron-Guld must pay their wages as stipulated by the respective trade guilds.I won't lie, the last option is the truthful one. If you dumbasses hadn't all supported Aldnar your city wouldn't have been destroyed by Satan.  My guy, you can literally have all your middle class dudes take their money. : The council's opinion is that this solution is fair to both parties. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion, Lady Espen.: To the next order of business.: Assembled noblemen, noblewomen, and friends of the crown, the second item to be addressed is the trade and taxation policy of the Kingdom of Isilmerald, as it applies to her sundry domains, resources, and citizens.: The Council of Deron-Guld has expressed their dissatisfaction with Isilmerald's current policy in the form of open rebellion against the crown, and war. Now, Lord Blythe, what does the council propose?: Your Majesty, trade in Isilmerald has for too long been severely restricted, and its profits heavily curtailed, by the crown. We've literally gone to all of these places and no one had anything to say about the crown's taxes. : Yes, yes, we all know how unhappy you are. What do you propose?  In the hands of better writers this would be an obvious ploy to centralize economic power around the king. I have no idea what is going on in Black Geyser Land.   I'm not sure what the hell happens if you pick "put me in charge of the taxes, and I'll only steal a little", but who knows? : His Majesty King Velianrick has decades of experience creating and applying the kingdom's economic policies. And what better evidence of the king's great success in this arena than that the curse of greed should take such firm root here? Therefore Isilmerald's trade policies should remain exactly the same.I want to say that you can argue by letting everyone flourish the king gets more taxes as the Intelligence option, but I don't remember. : Hear hear! The crown unreservedly approves. Did you try not following the obviously evil Satan guy? : We have one final order of business.: Esteemed guests, the final item on the agenda: a new system of governance for the Kingdom of Isilmerald.: Everyone, after much deliberation the crown has decided to relinquish the absolute rulership conferred by royal blood in favor of a new system that admits some decision-making powers and legislative control to a council of noble men and women.: The essentials of this new order will be codified with the cooperation of the council itself, so the most pressing issue is: who will get a seat at the table?: If it please Your Majesty, the Council of Deron-Guld desires nothing more than to resolve our disagreements with the crown and move forward. However, to ensure the persistence of the newfound peace, voices of dissent must be included among this royal body of advisors. You're all standing. : Seven remaining members of the *War Council* of Deron-Guld. A pertinent detail, I think.Those seven idiots shouldn't be allowed to run a McDonalds.  The intelligence option is to have elections for the nobles. I'm not sure how that works and who gets to vote.  Option 3 would be pretty funny, but whatever. : Representation on the new council should be proportionate to those who remained loyal to Isilbright and those who rebelled. It would not be just to grant extra representation to Deron-Guld simply because they dissented.: In the spirit of peace and fair dealing, the crown agrees.: I suppose... the council chooses not to object to this arrangement. Yeah, no gently caress you Alumu. : No, Your Majesty. I have nothing to add.I feel like you should be able to ask the king for your family lands back, but I'm pretty sure the developers forgot that was a plot point. : Very well, then we may conclude.: Thank you everyone, for participating in this important forum, and for your steadfast efforts to advance the cause of peace. I know that whatever our differences, we all seek the best possible future for Isilmerald and her citizens.: I confess that the crown still has doubts about some of the conclusions reached today, but negotiations will continue.: And so we adjourn. Good day to you all.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 Now we can go to Castle Alastor. It's kind of funny because Isla is screaming about how the world is totally going to be destroyed or whatever, and yet the big chaotic civil war is resolving peacefully.  The king doesn't have much to say except to thank us again for being awesome counselors who can stop exploding demon dudes.  Castle Alastor, the lair of Rothgor's evil cult, is literally between the Garden of Earthly Delights and the trade town and within a few days of the capital. How is this forgotten? Castles are expensive and hard to build, and there was a massive war with the Eastern Empires. Wouldn't it be garrisoned? Eh, gently caress it, nothing makes sense.  Anyway, Castle Alastor is the penultimate dungeon in the game.  This demon-possessed griffin flies off the roof in an incredibly slow and boring animation. I want you to note the exterior of the castle.  The griffin lands in front of the castle because it's always wanted to be part of a tedious bossfight and it defrauded the Make A Wish foundation.  Like every other fight in Black Geyser, there's no actual strategy to it. It's tank and spank all the way down. Note the "Zoria Titan" above Jade. Three of these spawn in and fight on our side to defeat the guardian. None of the characters think to question this in any way. It is foreshadowing.  There are also a bunch of boring Rothgor cultists with player abilities. I'm going to cut most of the fighting here because it's boring as poo poo.  The dreaded demonically possessed legendary monster drops a key, a reinforced quarterstaff that's fairly useless and common, and the same warhammer we got out of a barrel at the Curious Cat.  Castle Alastor is a three level slog of sheer boredom.  The gimmick is simple. Tyrenne is one of two NPCs on level 1 who need to be slain to collect "wardstones" that will let us up the stairs so we can face more boring Black Geyser combat.  She gives an attack order but the squad stands there stupidly.  This allows Bjalla and Jade to fireball the area and kill half of them, and then we mop them up offscreen.  There are Blood Elementals patrolling the hallways. You'd think there'd be actual demons like the Shadowfury demon we fought earlier, but no.  We need to fight this guy and kill him for the next wardstone.  There's just not much that the engine has in terms of interesting effects. He has an AoE fear "demonic gift", but we numberslam better than he does and also we are fortified by our desire to escape this game.  There are more encounters and loot that I'm skipping because we don't need loot and the encounters are boring.  Remember this unique staff we got from the time travel quest? Well, everyone and their mom has them here. They drop five at a time. It's kind of hilarious. It's also the game heavily telegraphing that Zoria is coming back into the plot after being gone for so long.  This wizard guy is another instructor.  He casts this intimidating looking Wildfire spell that spreads all over the screen and we just kind of outheal it.  It would be a mess if he had anything to capitalize on it.  He dies, dropping this Twisted Requiem spell we are probably not high enough level to cast. Jade learns it anyway.  I'm cutting through this section, but rest assured it is a slog. Also, I forgot to mention, but the interior of Castle Alastor has a similar floorplan to the Deron-Guld guildhouse.  This elf lady has a menagerie of "Possessed Robes" that are just wights. I have to do this fight twice because Jade died from burning after they were all dead. Rest assured, it was boring as poo poo.  This is the last level of Castle Alastor, thank Christ.  The developers once again spawn hostile enemies running at the party right after a loading screen. I assume they giggled like small children.  I check the journal and realize that the developers are dully trying to convince me that this place is, like, super intimidating, mannnnn!  The funny thing is that these guys are presumably the cultists who ambushed Gideon Rauche and started the war, and none of the characters have any reaction to this whatsoever. Presumably Aldnar was one of them.  There's a whole thing about how the greatswords mirror the Abyssal Knights who were corrupted by Rothgor and blah blah blah.  A bunch of wraiths guard the Black Geyser itself. They all die.  Alright game, let's go deal with your time wasting bullshit.   It is amazing. Presumably as Grandmaster of the Rothgor cult, this man was associated with Aldnar's corruption, the assassination of Rauche, the continual assassinations of messengers to prolong the war, the assassination attempt on the king, and presumably the entire plot, and we cannot ask him anything about it. But you know what? gently caress this game, and gently caress its stupid plot. Apparently if we go through with stopping Rothgor everyone's going to go insane, but we need divine assistance. Rothgor's a god, right? : I have come seeking my calling. I want to pledge my allegiance to your order. : That is not how our recruits are selected. We also don't take kindly to someone slaughtering half our acolytes and instructors just to request admission. You shall be removed.That's it! It's amazing! Absolutely NONE of your party members react to you saying that you want to join literal Satan or bow down before this random incompetent man you just met. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 We get a spooky cutscene of them powering up with Rothgor's evil power and the Grandmaster floats in the air.  It's another boring, lovely slog of a fight because the Grandmaster has 70% physical resistance and while he's not particularly dangerous it takes us forever to get through.  Unique loot at least.  A turbonuke for Jade.  We're going to ask Sea Hag about the gods for absolutely no reason. : I have some questions about the gods. : What do you know about Zornilsa? : You have probably heard Zornilsa referred to as the Goddess of Greed. Her will is to tempt people into wicked and selfish acts, from the merchant who dodges his taxes, to a bandit killing people for coin. Recent events in Isilmerald lead me to believe she is exerting a more direct influence on this realm than is typical. : What can you tell me about Zoria? I uh, have no idea how this works.  : Tell me about Omeyrenon. : He is also a close ally of the great Tilindia. I believe that to be the reason why I heard her call to make my offering.We wander off. It's time to open the Black Geyser.  The screen fades to black.  I want you all to guess what the dreaded Goddess of Greed, the unseen antagonist dogging us through most of the game, looks like. It's Not This! posted:Go on. Guess.  If your answer was "the female version of that 'who are you running from' guy from the game boy camera in a piss yellow robe" then I have no idea what the gently caress is wrong with you. I think it's supposed to be gold?  Apparently for these skill checks the game checks your entire party and uses the highest among them. : Zornilsa. (Theology): I didn't know it was possible to get this far in over one's head and still be alive. : I hope you have a plan for this, Inta Rume. : So... this is what it is like to meet one's end. It really is highly unpleasant.: I had never guessed I would feel such fear again. : Well well well, the goddess of greed. I won't pretend I'm surprised. But... how? And why? I thought Rothgor got more powerful when there was chaos and evil, and there was a huge civil war and the dead walked the earth. Isn't Zornilsa getting more power from all of Rothgor's damned spirits spreading greed across the land? Would an immortal demonic temptress really open with how she betrayed the last guy who made a deal with her in the attempt to convince her next mark? : Of course you want to betray him. How fitting. But why do you think I would help you? Why do you want the Black Geyser closed when it's spreading GREED everywhere? Eh, gently caress it. Decisions Lie Before Us! What are we telling Zornilsa?
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Aug 16, 2022 03:18
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You know what, she is a goddess, there's no reason to be rude. 2. Politely but firmly reject her offer. Besides, knowing this game, number 1 would probably drop you into a bad end, and number 3 would drop you into an even worse ending.
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Aug 16, 2022 04:01
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begone! your lovely attempt to bribe us earlier failed too
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Aug 16, 2022 05:19
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Begone! This will definitely inspire that useless Alnarius to show up and not just result in Isla chiding us for trying to cheat
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Aug 16, 2022 05:52
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No, writers, this isn’t tempting at all.
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Aug 16, 2022 06:31
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At this point if there was an 'whatever dude, I just don't care' option that would be my choice. I just want to see what wet fart they made for an ending.
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Aug 16, 2022 09:29
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By popular demand posted:At this point if there was an 'whatever dude, I just don't care' option that would be my choice. 
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Aug 16, 2022 09:31
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Reject the call of the bitcoin goddess. This game really doesn't fly that high, does it.
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Aug 16, 2022 10:30
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Truly they are setting up the most riveting of conclusions here. 
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Aug 16, 2022 12:01
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If the game had at all made a case for both sides of this war (as opposed to placing all the blame on the kingdom's end on the king being cursed and having the rebels be entirely the cause of their own downfall) this scene could be a good roleplaying moment. And if you had any incentive to try and get the east a spot at the table. And if they didn't do the lazy "one stat being high enough gives you the best answer" schtick (as opposed to having a number of options for different stats and skills, or having party members contribute). I guess what I'm saying is that the peace talk scene would've probably been great in a better game, which is still more than can be said about most of this game.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:20
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There's a salvageable concept beneath it, sure, but it would require the rest of the game being good. This thing needs editing and the first step of that is deleting everything that came before.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:22
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By popular demand posted:At this point if there was an 'whatever dude, I just don't care' option that would be my choice. I guess option 2 requires the least effort or interest on our part so let's go with that.
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Aug 16, 2022 14:27
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Finally caught up with this. drat, literally nothing at all makes sense, there is no coherent plot direction, and all the fantasy names sound either like something shat out by a random fantasy name generator or a reference to other, better media. Hell, there was a Lt. Daniel in one of the early updates. And I can't stop myself reading the king's name as Vendrick, the king from Dark Souls 2. Maybe the reference was wanted but then again the two characters share nothing beyond a title, and it's not like there's any coherent theming for anything so welp. Also I'm really curious how that combat bark of Hamlin's sounds. "I want a beer please" ????? That sounds comically absurd given the context and all but it's actually probably very disappointing to see in action. A 50/50
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Aug 16, 2022 14:43
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