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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1783521814758433212 Img-goose-chasing-with-questions Won't they be more likely to do it if they can't be prosecuted?
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Apr 25, 2024 17:16
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What? Pardon is a legal power of the president you idiot.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:16
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1783521814758433212 Funny thing: Out of context, that was a big issue in the Roman Republic -- you were immune to prosecution while you held office, but it expired the moment you left. So if you had enough political enemies, staying in power was an existential concern, which is how Rome got invaded by its own armies a few times. Naturally the context makes all the difference. This is the US; a former president is not going to be jailed or exiled or whatever just for being politically unpopular. And of course the president we are currently discussing is under fire, in part, because he attempted to unlawfully remain in office, so we've already crossed that particular Rubicon.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:20
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Fwiw, 5-4 pod has pointed out a bunch of times that ACB has asked poignant, piercing questions on right wing bullshit she eventually votes for. They hypothesized she is doing this to try to put a veneer of legitimacy on this madness, and also to stay in the good graces of her academia cocktail party set.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:21
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Keisari posted:So... they are stuck in a teenager's world view? Oh my god... the horror. Trump just wants to be accepted by the aristocrats in Manhattan, but he was born in Queens and doesn't have the right pedigree. Obama made fun of him to his face as an invited guest at the 2012 White House Correspondents Dinner. Musk bought Twitter in a drug-fueled rage because his goth girlfriend dumped his rear end. He paid far more than it was worth and the people who got paid did not hesitate to sell it at an overvalued price. He's never gotten over Peter Thiel telling him that x.com is a stupid name for a website and getting Musk thrown out of the company. They're manchildren with the worldview of a sixteen-year-old and a limitless supply of prescription drugs to swallow and snort to keep them in that frame of mind.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:21
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Star Man posted:Trump just wants to be accepted by the aristocrats in Manhattan, but he was born in Queens and doesn't have the right pedigree. Obama made fun of him to his face as an invited guest at the 2012 White House Correspondents Dinner. this. trumps mad he was never the POPULAR kids club and only was a popular kid. he loving hates that most of his fans are dumb chuds. so whats the consis far. i think they probably rule against trump simply because its too insane of bullshit.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:30
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Retro42 posted:There has never been a point in trying to figure out where he stands morally/etc. Counterpoint: just assume the most immoral dumb bullshit imaginable, add a small dose of Hitler, and you will arrive at his conclusion before he does.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so whats the consis far. i think they probably rule against trump simply because its too insane of bullshit.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:32
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Crows Turn Off posted:I would have agreed with you before I started reading about it today. Now, I'm honestly not sure, they may rule in favor of Trump. Same. Roberts sounds like he wants to find some technicality to punt it back to the lower courts, Thomas/Alito/Kavanaugh clearly are gonna endorse Trump's position, Gorsuch sounds like he's leaning towards Trump's side, ACB seems like a wildcard.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:35
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Crows Turn Off posted:I would have agreed with you before I started reading about it today. Now, I'm honestly not sure, they may rule in favor of Trump. Yeah, trump seems to have at least three votes for President Crimes and probably at least two more for a remand and new fact-finding on each of the 94 different charges to determine whether or not each of them separately are protected by immunity or not.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:37
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"In a 5-4 ruling today, the Supreme Court says that Presidents are completely immune for anything they do while holding the office of President. In other news, Joe Biden just had Seal Team Six seize five justices and drag them across The Mall tied on chains behind his motorcade. Also Mar-a-lago is now a bomb crater. Well, at least he can do his presidential duties without fear of criminal conviction!"
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Apr 25, 2024 17:40
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They'll just narrowly tailor it so it applies to Trump only this one time
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Apr 25, 2024 18:08
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The Biden that lives in many of your imaginations is a badass, but the real one would never do anything if he had that power
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Apr 25, 2024 18:10
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Ynglaur posted:Does Alito ever leave the cavern of his own mind? Like, does he read books, or newspapers, or, I dunno, talk to other human beings? Serious question. The classic evil brilliant jurist was Scalia, who was known for writing well reasoned and persuasive opinions, just ignoring the impact on actual people and treating legal consistency as more important than justice. Thomas is also usually self consistent, but within the moon logic world where he's discarded the last 300 years of law and substituted a new legal system he's imagined himself
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Apr 25, 2024 18:27
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Ynglaur posted:Like, we know that Thomas is just a slave to a rich white man who's a billionaire. Did you just deliberately call a black man a slave here? I don't like Thomas, but seriously?
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Apr 25, 2024 18:40
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1783521814758433212 I mean, he isn't wrong. That is literally part of the Roman system that ended the Republic. Absolute immunity in office led men like Caesar to cling to power for fear of punishment. The solution of course, was figured out in the intervening centuries by having a court system that doesn't punish official acts done as part of the office, but still penalizes the abuse of power. But Alito *is* an originalist...
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Apr 25, 2024 18:43
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Rust Martialis posted:Did you just deliberately call a black man a slave here? lol clutch those pearls, Rust (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 25, 2024 18:45
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Caros posted:I mean, he isn't wrong. That is literally part of the Roman system that ended the Republic. Absolute immunity in office led men like Caesar to cling to power for fear of punishment. It's technically true* but ignores context like all originalist arguments. Caesar had committed crimes, by modern and ancient standards, and his persecution was at the same time politically motivated. The real problem is that Roman armies were no longer loyal to the state or the idea of the Republic but to their individual commanders, who often also payed their salaries. Caesar wasn't the first commander to march on Rome, nor the first to be successful, nor was he the last. He's just the one most identified with the downfall of the republic (which had already been circling the drain before he was born). Gaius Marius was probably the more significant coup but his didn't stick beyond destabilizing the system. *and that's all that matters.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:48
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Tenkaris posted:lol clutch those pearls, Rust Nah that's loving racist
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Apr 25, 2024 18:48
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Fart Amplifier posted:Img-goose-chasing-with-questions Won't they be more likely to do it if they can't be prosecuted? More likely? Maybe not, but certainly much much much more able to.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:48
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So Harriet Miers would've been much much better than Alito right
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Apr 25, 2024 18:53
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Ravenfood posted:More likely? Maybe not, but certainly much much much more able to. Considering this is already about a guy who did it, I think it does, in fact, make it much more likely
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Apr 25, 2024 19:02
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zoux posted:So Harriet Miers would've been much much better than Alito right Possibly but the conservatives were a big part of why her nomination died on the vine so arguably they would consider Alito and our current state of affairs a feature not a bug.
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Apr 25, 2024 19:05
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Jaxyon posted:Nah that's loving racist Yes, it is. And it's still pearl clutching, too. They're not mutually exclusive.
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Apr 25, 2024 19:07
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next up on D&D Debates! (5:30 / 6 central): should we use hyperbole calling a black person a slave, ... if he's the most loathsome black person possible?
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Apr 25, 2024 19:17
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zoux posted:So Harriet Miers would've been much much better than Alito right Yes, the problem with Harriet Miers was that, having learned their lesson with David Souter, conservatives wanted nominees with a reliable history as a movement conservative.
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Apr 25, 2024 19:17
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I edited my descriptor of Thomas because I was being an insensitive rear end in a top hat. Sorry about that. I'm genuinely disgusted by an individual who would subserviate himself to a billionaire like that, but my word choice was lovely and insensitive. I'm sorry. Edit: I don't want to justify my terrible word-choice, but I just find it such a horrible thing that after hundreds of years of slavery, 160 years since emancipation, continued structural racism in our society, that a POC on the Supreme Court would debase themselves to serve...a rich white person. It's just gross. At any rate, I do apologize to anyone I offended. I'm imperfect, and will try to do better. Thanks for calling me out on it. Ynglaur fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 19:38
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Tenkaris posted:Yes, it is. And it's still pearl clutching, too. They're not mutually exclusive. You are a moron. Edit: Remember when we had a bunch of genius posters calling Thomas an Uncle Tom? Idiots on this site have demonstrated time and again that you don't have to give them any kind of presumption of good faith or whatever. If you can't figure out a way to say something that's not racists then stfu Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 19:45
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Grip it and rip it posted:You are a moron. Thanks bud, keep up the good work.
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Apr 25, 2024 19:54
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Can’t trump just do the decent thing and have a massive heart attack and spare us forevermore.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:15
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Judge upholds $83m E Jean Carroll defamation verdict against Trumpquote:A federal judge on Thursday upheld the verdict and award of more than $83m to the writer E Jean Carroll in a defamation case against Donald Trump after he called her a liar for accusing him of sexually assaulting her.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:38
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One step on the appeals train down. Two (?) more to go.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:53
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E. Nm, Uncle Clarence isn't worth it.
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Apr 25, 2024 21:01
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He’s obviously not a slave, hes paid handsomely for doing his masters’ bidding
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Apr 25, 2024 21:09
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Fart Amplifier posted:They'll just narrowly tailor it so it applies to Trump only this one time While always a possibility, I think they're leaning more towards giving a ruling that bogs everything down with red tape until after the election while not ruling for the concept of President Dread. So most likely it'll be official acts are immune, non official acts aren't but you'll have to come back to determine which is which on a case by case basis.
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Apr 26, 2024 00:38
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Can’t trump just do the decent thing and have a massive heart attack and spare us forevermore. Hallie Selassie has been dead for how long, and Rastas are still a thing. I'm not saying that Rastas are remotely as awful as the Qult, but I do think there's some notable parallels to be drawn considering you've got two religious movements forming around political figures who are - granted a bit less so over the years in Trump's case - not directly involved in the movements in question. Trump's cult will almost certainly outlive him and will probably only die out when the next fascist wunderkind comes along. Just like how Reagan's cult outlived him until Trump happened.
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Apr 26, 2024 00:44
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selassie or reagan exist in different whole categories of the talents that work towards creating a legacy (rather than just an active movement). like they were both good enough in their respective roles in fostering something that could live beyond them. reagan managed to be a dominant enough presidency that he would seed his party with an entire culture of antilabor liberalism, selassie was enough of a charismatic religious leader to leave behind a genuine faith, etc trump is excellent at getting attention towards himself, but he's a legacy inheritor more than anything else he wants to think of himself as (all his business and all his revenue exists as the dying fumes of what fred trump accrued for him to mismanage, and soon that will be gone as well) so he's not really likely to leave any kind of a name brand movement. he still could, i guess. l ron hubbard managed to leave behind an evil fuckin cult despite being about as much an incompetent, batshit narcissist grifter as donny
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Apr 26, 2024 01:05
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Hallie Selassie has been dead for how long, and Rastas are still a thing. I'm not saying that Rastas are remotely as awful as the Qult, but I do think there's some notable parallels to be drawn considering you've got two religious movements forming around political figures who are - granted a bit less so over the years in Trump's case - not directly involved in the movements in question. oh yeah, I don't expect it to go away over night when he dies. but boy will it be a good starting point when he passes away.
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Apr 26, 2024 01:05
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https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1783632410069893462?t=QimJ1zow_pK-WfK38RfS6A&s=19 So Merchan put out another show cause order for this coming Wednesday about four more violations of the gag order that trump has committed while Merchan has been considering whether to punish him for the first ten. Notably this is on a day court isn't in session, and he has demanded trump drag his rear end down there when trump had intended on campaigning with two rallies scheduled that day. I actually wonder if it is going to end in jail time. The fact that he is coming back for another bite at the apple before ruling on the first bunch suggests he is pissed, and I'm fairly sure he knows as well as anyone else that there is precisely one way to get trump to stop 'will anyone rid me of this troublesome priest'ing on national television.
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Apr 26, 2024 01:49
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Caros posted:https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1783632410069893462?t=QimJ1zow_pK-WfK38RfS6A&s=19 Apparently it has been moved: kazil posted:UPDATE: Merchan sucks
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