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tadashi posted:At this point, the people who played the game through once and enjoyed it have moved on. Hey I just picked up this game and I'm having fun with it, how's it going in-- ah I wonder if this is what it felt like to be a fan of launch-day No Man's Sky
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Dec 20, 2023 06:39
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ImpAtom posted:I'm fine with the Unity being an unexplained thing TBH. It is how the universe works, trying to attach an explanation to it does nothing but make it dumber. I mean they talk about capital-C Creators; given the game is already going meta as text instead of subtext I just assumed they're doing a "It's the developers, oh my god the video game is a video game" without actually spelling it out I wonder if anyone's modded the Unity to just be a giant floating todd howard face yet
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Dec 20, 2023 20:37
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infernal machines posted:I did all the side content solo so the only stealth I had to do with companions was part of Walter's quest and it caught me off guard how difficult it is to keep them from killing people. I spent most of the initial game wandering around solo and barely realized the wildlife sometimes aggroed, like "yeah I got too close to scan and it's pissy, whatever, jetpacking away wheeeeeee" and then I went somewhere with Sam and it was like I brought with the player character from cabela's dangerous hunts 2013
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Dec 20, 2023 21:30
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Ryujin and Crimson Fleet felt like they were collectively the Bethesda Required space versions of the thieves guild I will say that I partway through the last mission I was expecting the CF questline to end in a very different way-- the logs on the ship about "rerouting the credstick's chests EM protections" made me think the Quest Punchline was going to be an analogue of the old Fallout 2 bottlecap thing, where Kryx and now Delgado had both sacrificed themselves on the altar of obsession with nothing more than a freighter full of wiped-clean plastic chips to show for it. The fact that it really was played straight after that point felt like a let-down in comparison, rip
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Dec 23, 2023 11:35
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I feel like wishing for a Bethesda game to have the nemesis system is a bit of a monkey's paw because part of the reason it worked in the Mordor games was the combat gameplay loop was really good in a vaccuum and nearly every skill point was about adding and improving combat abilities, so having some enemies that show up that are immune to one ability but weak to others meant you had a reason to actually switch things up, even if you were leaning on some specific combat flows normally. Starfield's combat and difficulty scaling (on foot, anyways) begins and ends with "shoot them in the face" and "the hard ones have more health" with nearly every skill point and ability just being "do more damage" or "interrupt your opponent's damage", so what would the nemesis system even look like, "your bounty hunter has returned and they're immune to shotguns now"? Starfield already feels like a weird spliced game that's got one foot in "fun FPS RPG with a good story" and the other in "expansive exploration base-builder", where they didn't commit fully to either and the result is literally half of each split down the middle, so I don't think adding more random features would help without revisiting how they decided to do combat from first principles
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Dec 26, 2023 06:42
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Bholder posted:Problem is people really wanted this game to be Fallout 4 but white and space-ship fast travel or Bethesda made Elite Dangerous and the game and the game is kind of halfway there, half-assing both. I'd prefer that they kept space in, the problem is they half-assed it (quarter assed it?) so badly that it's not unreasonable to view it as fundamentally unfixable (or, at least, assume that they'll never decide to put in the time to fix it). Compare intra-system and on-planet travel to: - No Mans Sky - Elite Dangerous - X4 - Space Engineers - Outer Wilds (not Worlds, haven't played that one yet) - Astroneer (?!) and it's really apparent that they started from a baseline of three things: - we want space combat - we want pirate boarding - we want actually realistic space-distances and just never wanted to sit down to come up with a way to make traversal a meaningful thing in that context, just fast travelling to "the exciting bits"-- even if that results in fundamentally stupid things like "you literally can't travel to an empty point in a system even if you want to, there will always be some NPCs there to yell at you or start shooting at you because it's be boring otherwise" I bring up Astroneer because while it doesn't have space combat and does have "select planets and landing areas via effectively-a-menu", it makes the decision to switch planets compelling via cost in fuel and materials, so the "compelling gameplay" aspect is having to pre-plan your traversal... and it sounds like they literally planned to have that and then just changed their mind at the 11th hour for ?reasons? Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 06:48
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Flowing Thot posted:I think they probably found the more survival focused gameplay either not fun or too hardcore for the player base they were going for so hastily cut it out. I mean "hastily cut out" is nearly guaranteed given that voiced dialogue all reference He3 usage being required for grav jumping and extra-system outpost shipping still uses it, it's just absolutely bewildering to me that seemingly the only real reason to have outposts at all (setting up and possibly defending gas stations as you "expand" to further points eastwards on the map so you can refuel without building a ship made entirely out of gas tanks, with higher level systems and harder-to-establish-outposts-on planets being the carrot for taking outpost ranks in the first place) was something that they decided to cut late in development and effectively make outposts, and by extension a large chunk of their skill tree, and by extension a large chunk of crew passive bonuses, retroactively vestigial right before the release date. I guess if the upstairs says "release the game before christmas come hell or high water" then it is what it is, but...some of the way these systems (don't) interact with each other really feel like they're on par with "we can't figure out how to tune difficulty, gently caress it, just enable god mode and ship it" e: I also guess that the "no fast travel" challenge in this game would just be flipping a mod-switch on to remove the infinite gas tank cheat e2: With this gas tank empty, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed ship you have created Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 10:10
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Cyrano4747 posted:Oh yeah agreed. I"m just saying that as a mechanic power allocation can be interesting and contribute to making gameplay feel more involved. Yeah if you want a current(ish) gen example of a game that actually implements that and demands that you use it, Elite Dangerous is right there at specific high tiers of PvP or maybe thargoid combat, everything else you can basically gear up and set your pips to 3-2-1 and forget about them forever, and even with "3 systems, max 4 pips in each no matter what your actual equipment is, and a distinct button to reset to 2-2-2" it still gets flak for not allowing pip presets so you can 4-2-0 or 4-0-2 in one button press This pip system got "better" once I realized that holding down up/down on one pip category fully fills or dumps (you know, after accidentally holding alt instead of space and dumping all the pips out of shields instead of manuvering), but at this point I just go all pips to shields/engines and "whatever's leftover" to weapons and leave it be Just about the only "interesting" pip management is panicking to dump pips out of weapons and into your grav drive when you jump to a planet and forget you have your pockets full of sneeple propaganda
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Dec 28, 2023 18:27
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Pinely posted:In an interview Todd referenced ship combat as something they rebuilt over and over again and that they wanted to rebuild it again but decided not to. He shared it as an anecdote about game design and decision making, but it explains a lot about why ship combat is the way it is. I mean really it feels like "Fallout 76's issues with multiplayer"-- specifically, the stories about them not wanting to listen to the people who've done multiplayer games before and saying "yeah we can handle this ourselves" I wonder if they actually talked to or hired people with any amount of space flight sim development experience or just said "yeah gently caress it we've got this" Tankbuster posted:is the design document thing real or is this another one of those memes like "you can climb that mountain." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi51-wjcwp8&t=957s Emil Pagliarulo, writer and lead designer of Fallout 4 and Skyrim posted:We are at a state now, in the development of the studio-- we don't have a lot of extensive design documentation. We found that...probably after we hit Fallout 3, the design docs that we had became outdated very quickly because we knew we needed to get stuff in the game, and play it, and then change it. We needed to iterate on it. So we would have these extensive 50 page design documents that were completely outdated, and the time it took to maintain those just wasn't worth it. Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 18:35
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Magmarashi posted:One of them once said they don't like design documents, so that clearly means the entire company doesn't use them at all under any circumstance The lead designer said the company as a whole doesn't bother with "extensive" design docs because they're not worth keeping up to date. Your definition of "extensive" may vary but there's a pretty big difference between "some random designer said that" and "the guy in charge of designing the game as a whole said that". That said I will be Very Curious about the GDQ postmortem of starfield in like 5 years, once people start feeling like they can actually talk about it
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Dec 28, 2023 18:49
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isndl posted:You can break locks by spending 4 points in Engine Systems, making you immune to lock-ons while boosting. Of course, given the way boosting works in Starfield, that means the optimal strategy is to flash your boosters once a second after getting that perk. I can't tell if this is just a flat out lie by the game, or if the NPCs "aren't technically locking on" when they're aimbotting you while you're boosting (also the 4 points into engine perk that forces NPCs to disengage doesn't actually seem to do jack poo poo lol)
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Dec 28, 2023 18:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:This goes beyond hiring people with experience designing these systems. These are basic problems that anyone who has played a space flight sim since the days of loving XWing and Wing Commander 1 would recognize. I mean if they redid it 4 times and only didn't redo it a 5th time because of time constraints, it doesn't sound like they weren't unaware that it sucks, it just sounds like they were fundamentally incapable of figuring out how to make it not suck. The pip management is bad on the face of it, but it's not like changing the pips to a 4-4-4 model would have made the rest of the flight model better, and since the current pip functionality is also doing double duty as "the method by which the game decides how to limit how many of which specific engines/weapons you can glue on your ship" they probably couldn't have changed that without fundamentally changing the ship building on top of trying to get the flight model into a spot of not sucking Oh and there's the reactor buff talent so changing pips would have had to gently caress with the talent system as well, good luck with that after you've already delayed a year lol OddObserver posted:Presumably a coherent vision of how the systems fit together would be a bit smaller than "extensive"? If they were changing those systems up until the 11th hour (and in some cases, cutting them out completely) it sounds like a coherent vision of how everything should fit together counted as "too extensive to be worth maintaining", yes
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Dec 28, 2023 19:23
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anatomi posted:Sorry for digging this up from several pages back, but the linked mod's description taught me that WB has a patent on their Nemesis system. I find it insane that you can actually patent gameplay. Honestly the nemesis poo poo is expected, the real crack ping is when you see all the poo poo Nintendo filed for TOTK like "the mathematical concept of a player jumping onto with a moving object" https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20230808-20590/ quote:the movement of movable dynamic objects placed in the virtual space is controlled by physics calculations, and the movement of the player’s character is controlled by user input. When the player’s character and a dynamic object come in contact in the downward direction relative to the character (in other words, when the character is on top of an object), the movement of the dynamic object is added to the movement of the player’s character. 
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Dec 28, 2023 21:31
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The real funny thing is in the video in question, Todd Howard says "you see that mountain, you can walk to the top of it" The internet mis-transcribing it and getting mad at the thing that wasn't said is extremely on brand though
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Dec 28, 2023 21:59
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Chillmatic posted:climb up thread, climb up
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Dec 28, 2023 22:52
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hawowanlawow posted:I pick up all the ammo because it's weightless  Buying ammo from vendors in NG++etc,I have to switch to the "sell" menu to remember what gun I'm using, let alone the ammo that's used in it
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Dec 28, 2023 23:45
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The current player count (at least, according to Steam) is also probably functionally useless to look at, since it's a $70 game that's free if you're playing it via gamepass
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Dec 29, 2023 00:08
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Bholder posted:and it's a singleplayer game you can play in offline mode... Yeah, it's just kind of a useless number for multiple reasons that said According to SteamDB the current player counts are 10k in FO76, 13k in Starfield, 15k in FO4 and 25k in Skyrim SE The numbers don't actually mean anything but it's moderately funny to see regardless
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Dec 29, 2023 00:29
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Tankbuster posted:The plot is alright at getting you to go out exploring. The bigger issue is that there is nothing stopping you from abusing fast travel. Fallout 4's plot was also servicable but the game was carried hard by it's exploration and general gameplay loop - that was before survival mode came out. Honestly I still have difficulties figuring out what "triggers" literal fast travel-- sometimes standing on the ground and "travel to location" will drop me in orbit (even if there's no scanning in orbit), sometimes it'll park me there in my ship, sometimes it'll drop me directly at the location on foot with my ship nowhere in sight. Sometimes I can skip red-route jumps, sometimes I can't. Is it a bug, a non-obvious feature, a mystery wrapped in an enigma? 
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Dec 29, 2023 00:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk what they could conceivably do in dlcs that would make this game not suck. everything outside of the cities is completely soulless and the msq is just devoid of pathos. even adding a ton of handmade pois wouldn't do much because you still have the problem with the majority of the POIs being the worse-than-bad procgen ones. double down and have there be fewer, or no, artifical (human-made or Creator-made) PoIs per randomly-landed area I'm not even joking, really. Pre-release the assumption everyone came into it with was that they'd have 1,000 planets and 995 of those would be basically-empty; I think I would have preferred that to landing on a planet and having either 10 procgen human settlements in spitting distance or 10 alien antigravity monoliths visible from the landing area. Allow for empty spaces to be actually empty and give people a reason to do something there via outpost building. It's like they were flat out terrified that someone might pick a random spot on some planet to land on and not have at least 5 bandit locations to go kill people and loot stuff from, even though if there was an actual achievement for "pick a spot on a planet to land that isn't a pre-marked poi" I'd expect like 10% of people to have it
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Dec 29, 2023 11:26
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The thing that gets me is they could have turned that into a gameplay mechanic on it's own with the lore they have, if they had rolled back the clock 20 years in-game (and in some quests/text it seems like it was originally planned that way?) -- If we were immediately post-colony-war where the factions agreed that "a hardcoded agreement of 4 colonized systems each was pretty loving stupid, actually" and we got kicked into the plot at a point where exploration for the sake of human expansion was part of the Offical reason we're dropping outposts in the first place (and the artifact stuff was the UC/Freestar saying yeah whatever do your crackpot hobby stuff, just as long as you set up colonization stuff first), you could have a reason for anything on the east side of the map being completely unpopulated, a reason for NPCs outside your assigned crew to be showing up at outposts, wandering around, generate some passive gameplay currency in the form of credits or XP or resources, and also at least somewhat explains/removes the "humans pre-player are so stupidly fundamentally incurious that they'll set up a research outpost 10 feet from a giant antigrav anomaly church and not even question it" (you know, like the questioning that people are doing in the text of the game in the final area) Like I'm still playing and having fun with this game because it hits my specific brainworms (with some specific mods), but the sheer breadth of unrealized opportunity from how many systems in the game were working at cross purposes instead of in concert is just impressive the longer you look at it.
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Dec 29, 2023 13:52
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Phobeste posted:- keep all the above but you put stuff in the arenas to provide cover? you've made a fun dogfighting game (these aren't to my taste so i don't have an example) The funny thing is they were incredibly close to having this in certain specific situations, except asteroids break apart if you spit at them and I'm pretty sure they just don't exist to the AI, so they'll just shoot you directly through the rocks immediately if you try to use them as cover whoops
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Dec 29, 2023 20:15
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I've played with it a bit more, partially specifically out of spite about how seemingly useless it is and no matter what the game is I will play with extraction automation tooling no matter how much of the poo poo I can Just Buy Anyways (especially since I'd rather spend an hour loving with outposts than spend 15 minutes spamming 24 hour wait cycles outside a vendor waiting for them to stock enough Adhesive for me to glue a suppressor whatever pistol I'm using in this universe) From what I've played with it's a very, very odd mix of "intuitive" and "wait, it can't do that?" Like, power will work for everything in your outpost, but it also lets you wire things directly to each other, but there's no way to visually tell the difference between a power linkage, an output linkage, and an input linkage Also I'm pretty sure the outpost talent for "you can create more outpost linkages" is just plain broken because I took it and I'm still told I'm capped at 3 per outpost so lol
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Dec 29, 2023 21:13
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Alchenar posted:A huge chunk of the game is designing and building your own personal spaceship, without anything to actually do in that spaceship the whole process is just putting lego together. Arguably it's worse than that-- I stole a giant multi-hab-module ship and was like "oh this is actually kind of cool to walk around in, I play around more with this" and then had to scrap it back down to "just functional" levels of hab modules again because changing anything made it link together in stupid ways, like instead of "a connector that had 3 doors into different rooms", I ended up with a connector that was a dead end and an engineering bay that you could only get to by walking through a bedroom and an infirmary
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Dec 29, 2023 21:16
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"If you don't like how this game is does X just go play a different game" is such a weirdly conversation-terminating non sequitur that I'm not even sure how to respond to it
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Dec 29, 2023 22:10
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DancingShade posted:They had to cram in a Firefly TV show faction. That's it. Based on the timeline I feel like it's a tossup between "needed a Firefly faction" and "RDR2 was a smash hit" possibly both
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Dec 30, 2023 05:30
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Cyrano4747 posted:It would be like dropping a Dallas or Threes Company reference in Morrowind and expecting college kids in 2002 to get all hyped for it. The early internet in the 00s was rife with Monty Python jokes from the 60s-70s, the stuff that sticks or doesn't stick well past relevancy varies That said I suspect there's going to be a dramatic age cutoff depending on if the viewer was old enough to have seen Firefly before all Whedon's sexpest(-adjacent?) stuff came out compared to after
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Dec 30, 2023 05:34
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orcane posted:Also I'm pretty sure they explain what they consider Nasapunk to mean in some pre-release video (their take on "current space technology taken just a few recognizable steps further" aesthetic and mechanics instead of blatant fantasy like Star Wars or hyper futurism like most of Star Trek). Their use of the term "nasapunk" as a purely aesthetic term while you spend the main plots of the game - working for cowboy cops - working for space cops - working for corpos - working for the same space cops but technically a different faction and you can - working for the bougiest do-nothing "explorer's guild" that's ever been played completely straight in a game that I can recall offhand kills me in a way that's hard to describe, but I have to acknowledge the fact that "-punk" as a suffix at this point effectively means nothing but "that certain aesthetic", especially since I haven't played CP2077 yet but I keep hearing stuff about it leaning into respecting cops and corpos mechanically so yeah the ship's sailed I'm looking forward to TES6 being described straightfaced as fantasypunk
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Dec 30, 2023 13:46
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1glitch0 posted:There's more than a few times in the game, and this is certainly one of them, that has that tv show "opps we've ran out of money for the rest of the season" vibe. "Hacking a computer" and "unlocking a door" is already the same minigame, should have just committed to the bit and had you digipick the bolt tighter
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Dec 31, 2023 02:50
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Alchenar posted:There was a clear list of things to be fixed and then you could enjoy the pretty decent game that's there. But Starfield isn't 'broken' in that sense - it was born without a soul and I don't see how they can put one in without tearing the whole game apart and putting it back together. I mean I think the crux of it is this subjective opinion George Sex - REAL posted:EDIT: The people who are talking about the potential for this game to have a redemption arc similar to NMS, maybe, but keep in mind that NMS loving sucks NMS is quite popular, among the people that enjoy NMS as it currently exists. 8 years after it initially came out, people 100% know exactly what the game is and what it isn't, and nobody's showing up to NMS asking "where's the multiplayer ship-boarding combat I wanted in 2016". The problem is that "quite popular" in this context is still a subset of what was already considered a "niche" genre: space exploration and space combat. The same goes for Elite Dangerous, X4, Space Engineers, etc. They Do Not Have Skyrim numbers of sales figures for a reason. Starfield feels like it's trying to be all of those subsets at the same time while trying to be a "Bethesda Game" on top of all of that and couldn't stick the landing because there's a base level of fundamental irreconcilability there. I think that it's possible for Starfield to have an NMS turnaround, but only if it accepts that A. it has to commit to a subset of the overarching niche and Actually Do That, and B. comitting to that subset means that it won't ever be all of the other things it was trying to be, and the player numbers are going to reflect that And the way they're pivoting to patching and pushing stuff for the paid creator content store in Skyrim a couple months after Starfield's release makes me think that as a business, B is going to be the thing they get hung up on, no matter what the developers and designers think about doing A.
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Jan 1, 2024 11:22
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Alchenar posted:So NMS has sold 10+ million units since launch - it's an extremely successful game to the point where Hello games have been able to ride its success for 8 years. It isn't pulling niche genre numbers at all. "A game selling well" and "A genre being a niche in terms of overall popularity" aren't in opposition to each other-- Stardew Valley sold 20 million lifetime copies, but I'd still call the Harvest Moon-adjacent farming simulator stuff "niche" in terms of overall popularity-- FIFA 2022 sold 9 million copies in a year; 2022's version of Call of Duty sold 4.7 million copies in the first day. The scales we're working with here are a bit weird, especially on these dead gay forums populated primarily by elder millenials. All a genre being "niche" means is that there is, explicitly, a defined upper ceiling of people who will be intrested in buying the game that is significantly smaller than whatever the "most popular" genres are-- which is fine, and good, and normal, and business people hate that. Resident Evil 5 is still, to my knowledge, the best-selling individual entry in the Resident Evil series, and we all saw where that ended up.
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Jan 1, 2024 12:19
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It blows my loving mind that in a game with NG+ baked into the barely there story, that you can be King poo poo of Turd Mountain in the UC and Freestar at the same time. To be honest I'm surprised Starfield even bothered to take into account that you may have turned down Sysdef's offer to do life-threatening double agent work for stealing a sandwich before you started the Vanguard questline I am amused that "turning down their offer" turned you explicitly sysdef hostile in the same way that literally shooting your way off the sysdef ship does though
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Jan 1, 2024 15:04
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Ironslave posted:"You can mine! You can loot! You can fly! You can shoot!" I can siiiiiiing 
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Jan 2, 2024 04:20
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PeePot posted:I solved this and a bunch of other problems by putting my carry weight to 10,000. My ships storage was filled with an ever increasing amount of coffee cups and notepads. Yeah one of my first experiences with outpost building in an area with trees was that it was a coin flip whether or not my outpost even properly existed when I came back to it-- sometimes trees and rocks would be clipping through and into hab modules, sometimes the modules themselves vanished in part or in whole. And then I saw "literally no foundations" and most of my outposts just ended up using a big circular hab module with no airlock as a "foundation" to throw down some mission terminals without having to go in and out of an airlock every time, and only because it wouldn't let me build those on the edge of a space ship landing pad
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Jan 2, 2024 19:03
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I just put a "have all modules available at your outpost shipyard" and felt no guilt about it (along with mods for "auto-increment all the dragon shouts every NG+ iteration" and unfucking the level scaling to make it actually feasible to get to high levels with normal play and not going to some random planet to shoot bugs for hours)
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Jan 2, 2024 21:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:vestigial memory of when game loading screens were like 3 minutes the funny thing is I never played Fallout 4 until now, and all the people saying "At least the Starfield loading screens are pretty fast" suddenly make a lot more sense
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Jan 2, 2024 23:23
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Barometer posted:I can't stand it, and the final planet is sitting behind a space dogfight against the two dumbass starborn and it's like...will I ever go back to that and get to play NG+? I wonder. I went back to join the UC and access the flight By the end I had the game set on Very Hard for everything and just cranked it back to Very Easy for that one required ship fight-- I even checked to see if you could pre-drop a base to avoid it but of course "fast travel is disabled" to that one planet during that step of that quest. Dogfighting feels like a combination of raw numbers and luck. I'd be more inclined to think there's more skill than I'm giving it credit for, but the game will literally make your missiles worthless on some prebuilt NPC ship types because "where it's locked on to" isn't actually a place that can be hit, so I'm not going to give their space fight designers any benefit of any doubt.
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Jan 2, 2024 23:42
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webmeister posted:Dumb things with ship combat: Particle Beams and Missiles are absolutely the GOAT, assuming as mentioned your missiles can actually hit, yeah. Gaming the NPC AI is an option if you don't mind your ship looking like rear end, but the number of times you're under focused fire from 3-or-more enemies is so infrequent that building my ship to look like intentional rear end for the sole purpose of those fights felt less than worthwhile
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Jan 3, 2024 00:15
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tadashi posted:The fastest way to power level seems to be to get an outpost setup as early as possible producing aluminum and iron (or sending those 2 elements to one outpost) and then produce adaptive frames for 99 xp every 5 seconds or so. And, again, I cannot emphasize this enough: gently caress that This isn't an MMO, this is a single player space game. If you're slipping into an unfun lovely rear end grind to do something that isn't "enjoying playing the actual game" mod that poo poo out
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Jan 3, 2024 15:49
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infernal machines posted:It's great that their solution to incentivising long term play with NG+ was to put up so many barriers to skills/mechanics that you couldn't actually engage with most of them in your first playthrough. It's weird because I can see a nugget of a good idea in there-- if the skill points didn't exist, "you get more skilled at persuasion after suceeding 5 persuasion checks" and "you do more damage with rifles after shooting 50 people with rifles" are things that on some level Make Sense, and it even sort of excuses the batshit level curve if your ability to get skillups isn't necessarily tied to your current level, it just affects the level scaling or whatever But then someone said "well what reward do people get for levelling up" and we end up with this mess. And even then I could at least see an argument if the challenge counting was retroactive, like "yeah I already persuaded 10 people before I even took the talent point for it", but this is....it is what it is, I guess
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Jan 3, 2024 16:12
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