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BiggerBoat posted:Then explain the popularity of soccer to me. Because they’re two different sports?  Soccer has a much bigger field and more players, so by nature it’s going to be more spread out. And the two sports have different rhythms - the 24-second shot clock exists because somebody worked out how often shots went in during a good game, and because so basketball has a scoring-heavy rhythm. Soccer doesn’t, and doesn’t, which is fine (and it’s also more than fine to not like it!).
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Dec 13, 2022 02:46
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My unproven theory is that if they didn't have the backcourt rules you'd see a lot of ball movement in the backcourt trying to create little mini fast breaks all night not that different from soccer. So it might lead to more cool dunks and wide threes. But also probably really low scores which is probably not what anyone wants.
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Dec 13, 2022 03:56
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Rick posted:My unproven theory is that if they didn't have the backcourt rules you'd see a lot of ball movement in the backcourt trying to create little mini fast breaks all night not that different from soccer. So it might lead to more cool dunks and wide threes. But also probably really low scores which is probably not what anyone wants. What I'm hearing is that soccer needs backcourt violations.
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Dec 13, 2022 04:59
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:What I'm hearing is that soccer needs backcourt violations. Offsides and backcourt violations existing together would certainly make for an interesting experiment
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Dec 13, 2022 10:31
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Rick posted:My unproven theory is that if they didn't have the backcourt rules you'd see a lot of ball movement in the backcourt trying to create little mini fast breaks all night not that different from soccer. So it might lead to more cool dunks and wide threes. But also probably really low scores which is probably not what anyone wants. Oregon high school basketball used to not have shot clocks even inside the last decade I think, it’s just a lot of bad four corners offense. No fun.
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Dec 13, 2022 11:58
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Rick posted:My unproven theory is that if they didn't have the backcourt rules you'd see a lot of ball movement in the backcourt trying to create little mini fast breaks all night not that different from soccer. So it might lead to more cool dunks and wide threes. But also probably really low scores which is probably not what anyone wants. That's basically overtime hockey. It's fun when teams go balls to the wall and trade breaks every 5 seconds, but you also get team that bring it up, don't see anything open and circle back to their own zone to reset. Combined with no shot clock and changing on the fly and you get entire shifts where one team is just circling waiting for a mistakefor 30 seconds and then if nothing opens up, waiting another 10-20 to change and get fresh legs on the ice for another try.
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Dec 13, 2022 16:19
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harperdc posted:Oregon high school basketball used to not have shot clocks even inside the last decade I think, it’s just a lot of bad four corners offense. No fun. The shot clock is only now begining to get traction in high school basketball. Georgia began phasing it in two years ago and the private and public school leagues are using it in all games this year. The NFHS has declined to make it a rule for everybody. Having watched a ton of both, there really isn't much difference in pace of play. I am one of those weirdos, though, who prefers having the option to stall. A four corners offense done right is poetry to see. I do understand why the pros and colleges needed to go to a shot clock.
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Dec 13, 2022 19:27
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What is the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union? And why does play of each seem to be so regionalized in both Britain and Australia? Add Aussie Rules Football to that latter question as well.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:02
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Devils Avocado posted:What is the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union? And why does play of each seem to be so regionalized in both Britain and Australia? Add Aussie Rules Football to that latter question as well. Rugby union is the more internationalized game, with more of the painful-looking things like scrums, proper rucks, and mauls. It was also strictly an amateur game for a very long time, and rugby league started as a way to break away and both pay players as well as have a faster-paced game. League has fewer of the things that slow union down sometimes (the above painful things) and two fewer players per side (15 in union, 13 in league). League started in England but mostly caught on there and in parts of Australia, namely the northeast - New South Wales and Queensland. Australian rules is a completely other offshoot. For one, while rugby plays on fields similar to soccer or American football, Aussie rules is on a cricket pitch - enormous and mostly round. The biggest difference is Aussie rules doesn’t have the offside rule, meaning players are set all around that enormous field. Also, to bring it back to rugby league, Aussie rules (or AFL) is popular in southern and Western Australia - Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:10
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The regionalisation, at least in the UK, is also down to the professional-amateur split: posh folk from the rich areas (mostly the south) who could piss about playing sports instead of working for a living played mostly union, salt of the earth working class lads who couldn't play unless it was also paying the bills played mostly league.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:45
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the other biggest distinction between league and union is that league has the six-tackle rule which is similar to downs in american football, where after six consecutive tackles without losing possession, you automatically switch possession to the other team. like in american football this means that teams will very frequently kick the ball after the fifth tackle its probably more complicated than this, but i like to think of all the forms of football originating from a game that was probably just "get the ball to a goal on the other side", and every form of football being an answer to the question of "what happens when someone falls on the ball and everyone piles on top of them", either by making this illegal, or by having specific ways to restart play from that situation Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 23:06
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australian football is also heavily based on the mark, which used to be in rugby and still exists in american football as the fair catch. if a ball is kicked far enough and you catch it, you're allowed to have a free kick from that spot. once in a blue moon someone attempts a fair catch field goal in the NFL. unlike a field goal, the opposing team has to be at least ten yards from the LOS because it originated as a rule about free kicks toward goal Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 23:08
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Rugby Union is the original one, and the main idea is you have your 15 dudes that can pass it backwards between each other trying to run it into the opposing in-goal and put it on the ground, while the other team tries to grab you and take the ball off you. The problem here is that that tackle/grab bit doesn't work without a whole bunch of rules stopping players from just holding the ball or anyone around just constantly making GBS threads up the play and it all turning into a lovely boring mess of guys on the ground. Rugby's answer was to codify a whole bunch of ever changing and hard to remember/hard to officiate rules that attempt to maintain some sort of game flow. Sometimes this actually works but a lot of the time the ref is just constantly blowing penalties for breaking the rules and the game is stop start and sucks. League was an offshoot where they just said gently caress it, no complex rules, just stop and reset everything when someone gets tackled. Everyone lines up again and you roll it through your legs to restart, and because there's no contest to grab the ball you just get 6 tackles to move the ball up before handing it over. Because the defense is constantly getting reset into position the game devolves into 2 lines of 20-year-old dudes running into each other at high speed and getting horribly injured for your amusement. Sometimes they miss and score a try. As we learn more about CTE both games seem even more poo poo and hopefully they die. Aussie Rules is a weird little version of Gaelic Football, it's completely different and no-one but Australia gives a gently caress. You basically just run around after a ball on a cricket field and do whatever. Ratios and Tendency fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 09:44
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The news of the guy running the sub-2:01 marathon got me thinking (and I wanted an excuse to bump this thread, which was always interesting): I assume there could be big differences between urban marathon courses in terms of terrain and such so is there a quantifiable like "ballpark factor" anyone's tried to calculate for the major ones to compare or normalize results?
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Oct 8, 2023 18:11
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Ginette Reno posted:Hockey goalies will come out and challenge/play angles as well but they've also become so large and athletic that a common style now is to play pretty deep in the net because with the butterfly style they cover so much net even when they go down that it's hard to score unless you place a perfect shot in the upper part of the net. I would chip in line changes are a factor in hockey compared to soccer. My understanding is that in soccer, once a player comes out, they can't go back in. Soccer players have to conserve energy to last them the whole match. Hockey allows you to change players fairly frequently (couple of scenarios where you can't swap players.) So hockey lines are on the ice for around 60 -90 seconds at a time. It's more of a sprint.
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Oct 10, 2023 23:37
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:The news of the guy running the sub-2:01 marathon got me thinking (and I wanted an excuse to bump this thread, which was always interesting): I assume there could be big differences between urban marathon courses in terms of terrain and such so is there a quantifiable like "ballpark factor" anyone's tried to calculate for the major ones to compare or normalize results? Absolutely. There’s races that are stereotyped s as fast or slow, depending on a whole bunch of things - elevation gain or loss, road surface, type and tightness of curves, weather, etc. Of course you can have a storm on the day, or it can be unseasonably hot or cold, but to tie it back to the WR there’s definitely a reason it happened in Chicago instead of, e.g, New York (bridges = hills).
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Oct 15, 2023 21:25
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Anderson Koopa posted:I would chip in line changes are a factor in hockey compared to soccer. My understanding is that in soccer, once a player comes out, they can't go back in. Soccer players have to conserve energy to last them the whole match. Hockey allows you to change players fairly frequently (couple of scenarios where you can't swap players.) So hockey lines are on the ice for around 60 -90 seconds at a time. It's more of a sprint. Yes Soccer substitutions are 1. Limited to 5 per game. and 2. Permanent, you cannot put someone who has been substituted off back in the game. So you do want to be judicious when you really use your energy on a pitch.
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Oct 16, 2023 16:50
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LionYeti posted:Yes Soccer substitutions are 1. Limited to 5 per game. and 2. Permanent, you cannot put someone who has been substituted off back in the game. So you do want to be judicious when you really use your energy on a pitch. Until the 1980s it used to be maybe 1 substitute, then for a long era it was three, now generally it's five substitutes but only stopping the game for three times to call up a substitution (not counting halftime) in most of the major leagues. the Premier League also has trialed concussion substitutes to allow for teams to have players checked during the game but not going down to 10 men or fewer. the tactics are starting to shift a bit considering the number of fresh players you can bring on just increased 66%, so some teams are using players as closers to run at tired defenses, but in many cases you still will see subs only starting from ~60th minute or so of a game. to the original question, it's also much harder to get through 10 other players and a goalie with the ball and to score. It...just is. hard to explain why. because one goal can swing a game, possession is valuable; because losing possession means running back on defense (and, again, fewer subs, so even the fittest players can get tired) and doing that too much wears you out and leaves gaps. Ice hockey has a smaller field of play, more opportunities to score, and with those line changes, able to keep sprints up when compared to soccer.
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Oct 17, 2023 13:33
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Why is it that sometimes the ball hits a really big wall and it's counted as a home run in baseball? Does it depend on the stadium?
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Oct 24, 2023 21:17
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Terminally Bored posted:Why is it that sometimes the ball hits a really big wall and it's counted as a home run in baseball? Does it depend on the stadium? Yeah, each stadium has ground rules. Some stadiums with big walls have a line where it's a dinger, others have shorter outfield dimensions so it's not out off the wall like the Big Green Monster in Fenway. Also domes have weird rules about balls that hit the roof and Wrigley has a special rule where if the ball gets caught in the ivy and the fielder can't find it it's a ground rule double. Baseball stadiums are all weird, they're all different sizes. There's a social media account that tracks home runs and how many parks they would be home runs in.
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Oct 24, 2023 21:20
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I'm a filthy Euro so excuse the next stupid question but why does baseball need two leagues? Is it a business thing? A tradition? I've been following MLB this year and the baseball thread seems to complain that in one league it's a bit easier to get through playoffs than in the other. Wouldn't it be easier to just make one big league with the huge amount of games in a baseball season?
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Oct 24, 2023 21:35
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Baseball started out with two competing leagues that eventually merged together. The sport is very protective of its history, so they kept the names the same instead of referring to them as conferences. It used to be that teams only played within their respective league until the World Series, but that changed with the introduction of interleague play in the 90s.
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Oct 24, 2023 21:49
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Terminally Bored posted:I'm a filthy Euro so excuse the next stupid question but why does baseball need two leagues? Is it a business thing? A tradition? I've been following MLB this year and the baseball thread seems to complain that in one league it's a bit easier to get through playoffs than in the other. Wouldn't it be easier to just make one big league with the huge amount of games in a baseball season?
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Oct 24, 2023 21:59
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The only distinction is there's a bit more prestige to winning the National or American League in baseball AKA the NL or AL Pennant (special triangular shaped flag you can fly at the stadium the next season) then there is winning the AFC or NFC in American Football or the West or East in the NBA.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:52
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I may be a little rusty on this, but there was nothing that really required or forced two leagues in the old days until the AL and NL were babies about it. "Major League" Baseball is supposed to encompass the leagues that were considered majors. There were multiple attempts to form a third major league over the last 140ish years. Some came closer to others, like the Pacific Coast League came really close, and others like the Continental League never played a game. The various Negro Leagues are retroactively recorded as major league teams, with varying levels of acceptance and caveats.
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Oct 25, 2023 00:44
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:Started as business (the AL and NL were two separate entities that then merged into Major League Baseball), continued as tradition, baseball being the most hidebound of the major American sports. The NBA and NFL (and NHL iirc but I barely follow?) are similarly structured into two halves that more or less permanantly sit on opposite sides of the playoff bracket, but the regular season includes games across league lines and there's little real division otherwise. I don't recall to what extent their conference memberships were or remain associated with mergers etc. but might have something to do with it as well. Baseball, however, maintained the AL/NL distinction in a few important ways: until the 1990s, AL and NL teams never played regular season games, meeting only in the World Series (there were several combinations of MLB teams that had never played against each other once for decades.) And the designated hitter, an important and fundamental change to the rules of the game, was only used in American League (World Series games, and later regular season interleague games, used the rule of the home team's league). With the adoption of the DH in the NL beginning with the covid year, and the "balanced" schedule agreed to in the latest collective bargaining agreement that matches up each team with each other team, across leagues, at least one series per year, those distinctions have largely disappeared and it's more or less just the same arbitrary assortment as how the NFL and NBA work. The NHL has two conferences, yeah. There is interleague play though (each conference plays teams in the other conference 2x a year, a home and home). Playoffs are by conference until the finals at which point it's east vs west for the cup.
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Oct 25, 2023 19:08
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Terminally Bored posted:I'm a filthy Euro so excuse the next stupid question but why does baseball need two leagues? Is it a business thing? A tradition? I've been following MLB this year and the baseball thread seems to complain that in one league it's a bit easier to get through playoffs than in the other. Wouldn't it be easier to just make one big league with the huge amount of games in a baseball season? Even college sports conferences, which were historically regional (they've become less regional in the last few years because of money), often have some sort of division system or protected rivalry system.
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Oct 25, 2023 22:23
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The Conference system also hugely cuts down on travel which is a major consideration in North American sports because at most teams will have maybe three or four opponents in a reasonable geographic distance. Teams on the West Coast frequently have no one within 500km or more. Even with the Conference system keeping them playing teams primarily in their own time zone and mountain time zone, the Vancouver Canucks still fly over 70,000km a year. A flight from Vancouver to Florida is 5000km and takes about six hours. The equivalent of a flight from London to Dubai. Of course that part is less relevant in baseball where the NL and AL are not divided by geography. However, divisions within the leagues which teams play most frequently somewhat are. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 00:03
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Going off that, it's worth noting the NHL and NBA are both divided into Eastern and Western conferences, so at least at that level, there is some level of geographic organization. Historically, they weren't always that way, but are now. The NFL and MLB are very much not split in such a way. Both have similar names for their conference or equivalent (National and American) and reflect that they were originally separate entities that merged under a single league banner. A potential result of this is the NHL or NBA won't see a championship decided between, say, two teams representing New York or two teams from California, but both can happen (And have) in the NFL and MLB.
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Oct 26, 2023 00:45
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ThinkTank posted:Of course that part is less relevant in baseball where the NL and AL are not divided by geography. However, divisions within the leagues which teams play most frequently somewhat are. The NL started traveling west more earlier, which was enabled by the Dodgers moving to Los Angeles and getting the Giants to leave New York for San Francisco too, which allowed all the teams in the eastern half to make one long trip out there instead of a shorter one (baseball scheduling usually has teams play 3-4 game series, so being able to back an LA trip with San Francisco helped make that work). The NBA and NHL still weight the schedule more towards teams in your conference and division, partially for these travel reasons.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:03
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harperdc posted:The NL started traveling west more earlier, which was enabled by the Dodgers moving to Los Angeles and getting the Giants to leave New York for San Francisco too, which allowed all the teams in the eastern half to make one long trip out there instead of a shorter one (baseball scheduling usually has teams play 3-4 game series, so being able to back an LA trip with San Francisco helped make that work). Yeah the MLB and NBA really have to worry about travel because they have more intense schedules during the season than european sports teams. It's one of the big reasons why euroleague basketball is so different than regular season or even playoff nba games- they get a week layoff between games and a lot more practice for specific opponents, whereas in the NBA there are back to backs, and even in the playoffs the games are often one day apart. The flipside is, the euroleague offseason is almost non-existent, especially for high level teams because of the intersecting leagues.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:20
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Why is the VAR baseball equivalent (challenge replay) done in some room in NYC and not in-stadium during a game?
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Oct 28, 2023 19:49
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Terminally Bored posted:Why is the VAR baseball equivalent (challenge replay) done in some room in NYC and not in-stadium during a game? Presumably so they can have a single crew handling it rather than a separate crew for every game that is happening.
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Oct 28, 2023 19:54
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At first at least delays were occasionally attributed to that one crew having challenges come up in a few games at the same time.
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Oct 28, 2023 22:16
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I’ve watched maybe 20 minutes of cricket in my entire life but I’ve always been curious about how the “overs” thing works. From what I understand, the first team to bat sets their point total after either getting every batter out or deciding that it’s too late in the day, and then the second team gets some number of “overs” (each being six deliveries?) to surpass the point total or they lose. What stops the bowler on the leading team from just chucking unhittable balls that aren’t anywhere near the wickets (like the old intentional walks in baseball)? Is it against the rules or would it just be too easy for the batter to crush a ball that has no chance of knocking over the wicket?
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Oct 30, 2023 17:52
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coiol posted:I’ve watched maybe 20 minutes of cricket in my entire life but I’ve always been curious about how the “overs” thing works. From what I understand, the first team to bat sets their point total after either getting every batter out or deciding that it’s too late in the day, and then the second team gets some number of “overs” (each being six deliveries?) to surpass the point total or they lose. bowling a ball that is unhittably far from the batsman is a "wide" and results in a penalty run. also it doesn't count as one of the balls in an over, because an over is six legal deliveries. if you bowled nothing but wides in test cricket you would be giving up one run per ball which is far over what a normal scoring rate would be even in a really offensive game (technically this would result in an infinite run rate because you'd never actually bowl a legal delivery) there are ways to bowl defensively in a way that aims to minimize scoring rather than get batsmen out, but in multi-day cricket the object is to score more runs and dismiss the opposing team. if time runs out in a cricket match and you haven't gotten everyone on the other team out, the game is a draw regardless of the scores. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 19:21
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also if you're watching the world cup, that's one-day "limited overs" cricket where each team gets 50 overs, or 300 legal deliveries to score, and you don't have to dismiss the side to win. the cricket that lasts five days has no limit on the number of overs, and is instead limited by time where the game ends at the end of the last session on the last day.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:34
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The NFL playing in Germany got me thinking about international locations for US/Canadian sports leagues. The one that seems like a pretty good idea on paper is an MLB team in San Juan. Is the primary reason that name doesn't really come up the general economic conditions in PR?
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Nov 12, 2023 19:45
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Sash! posted:The NFL playing in Germany got me thinking about international locations for US/Canadian sports leagues. The one that seems like a pretty good idea on paper is an MLB team in San Juan. Is the primary reason that name doesn't really come up the general economic conditions in PR? Pretty much also theres like significant language barrier concerns. PR is majority Spanish speaking. LionYeti fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 13, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 20:40
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Sash! posted:The NFL playing in Germany got me thinking about international locations for US/Canadian sports leagues. The one that seems like a pretty good idea on paper is an MLB team in San Juan. Is the primary reason that name doesn't really come up the general economic conditions in PR?
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