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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

theCalamity posted:

If voting and revolution are not counter to one another, why do you think not willing to vote means that you probably won't participate in a revolution?
Of the people who dont vote, I feel like the vast majority do not from a combination of apathy and institutional roadblocks and a very small percentage of them do not from some kind of principled desire to avoid supporting a system they feel is unjust. The latter group may not vote and participate in a revolution. I feel, without data, that a person who is too apathetic to vote or too burdened by institutional roadblocks is unlikely to join a revolution, especially at the outset. Some might, but it feels like a very small number.

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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Ither posted:

To the people who are choosing not to vote, what outcome do you expect to follow from that choice?

It could be many things. Either they are not concerned with immediate outcomes, believe that inaction is somehow morally different from action, believe in accelerationism, somehow believe that...not voting or protest voting will actually produce change, or are deontologists.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Josef bugman posted:

Avoiding climate change by driving an electric car has the same amount of utility as trying to change the direction of the hurricane you are in by farting. It is an effort, but it doesn't really do all the much and the majority of people are still going to be getting materially affected by stuff to a far greater degree.

On an individual level, yes, but the bill is aimed at encouraging broad adoption of electric vehicles which should have a large aggregate impact on ~20% of emissions in the US over time.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

evilweasel posted:

lawyertalk: pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt, and there are often many good reasons to plead the fifth even if you are completely innocent

realtalk: lol at the public believing that

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1557371559421042688?s=20&t=bh2mz3OP8aPwsaSWXP9iUA
Also even though that is true, for a political ad you can just run clips of Trump saying that innocent people don't plead the 5th and then a list of times or clips he has done so. You dont even need to say anything.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
So how is that different from just advocating for armed insurrection?

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Madkal posted:

Is this gonna end up being one of those things when those cases of "election fraud" turns out to be some republican voter trying to see how easy it is doing election fraud?

No those mysteriously aren't being prosecuted, or at least not trumpeted by DeSantis.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

Class3KillStorm posted:

I mean, is that even feasible when there are people directly affected by gun violence who don't have a commensurate revelation, and end up still championing gun rights even after those experiences? There's one Parkland dad who is still a gun nut, even after losing a kid. Hell, Steve Scalise got his balls shot off and he still came back to vote pro-gun.

Seems like the cultural aspect is just too firmly ingrained in some portion of the population that even losing loved ones or limbs to gun violence isn't enough to turn them away, and I don't know how you get around those people at this point.

Sure there are going to be some. Parkland dad guy can't admit to himself that his beliefs on gun control might have partially contributed to his kid's death, so he doubles down. Scalise remains as well paid as before to vote the way he does, if not more so. His livelihood somewhat depends on his position staying the same (as he may lose his seat if he doesn't) and so his position stays the same.

So sure, some people won't but enough would change their minds, I think. It would just be horrific in terms of casualties.

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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

PainterofCrap posted:

You are being very diplomatic.
The 11th Circuit spanked Cannon.

What, something on the lines of "there are 4 criteria. The DOJ only had to make a successful claim for one of them, and they in fact made it on all four. Also we are unanimous that we would likely rule in favor of the DOJ on the merits of the case.

PS, here is a primer on classification law."

E: also there response to the idea that the threat of prosecution creates irreparable harm is pretty plaintext: "you're an idiot"

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Sep 22, 2022

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