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eke out posted:these are reasonable things to be asking but the answers to both are broadly "keep reading" That's going to come up a lot.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:27
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1. They definitely have a regimented medium of exchange, but I don't think we ever really see literal coinage trade hands. As I recall, you're getting wages of a sort when you labor, or else someone's done a crime to you. I believe that credit goes directly to the geseth and then you're debited out for things like room and board, which you get just for being alive, and then everything else you use on top of that, like land, time on a forge, tools, luxury items and so on. There are definitely taxes and fines. I can't say if the sworn clerks are literally bound to the Peace like magicians, but it wouldn't surprise me, since they seem to be the ones keeping track of all of the notional means of exchange beyond "here's thirty bricks, please make me a saw." One of the other things to think about is that while the Commonweal operates on a sort of program of basic income in kind, that doesn't meant here's not hard limits on the amount of labor or resources available. Like in TMN, Halt setting up the glass factory for canning jars was something that she could do efficiently that nobody else in the Creeks could manage, and saved a lot of people from starvation over the winter. Cheap and efficient can be literal, not just measured in currency cost. 2. The Power likes to cause trouble, especially if you're constantly using it, and also everyone has access to it to at least a limited degree. Halt or Blossom could probably manage it, but it's assumed if Bob down at the bakery coop, who's a pretty dab hand with rudimentary thermodynamics, kept flying everywhere he would eventually detonate spectacularly while running errands, or something worse that takes someone else with him. It might also attract attention from outside the borders that nobody wants, and also also might just be impolite to folks who aren't juiced up enough to fly.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:28
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Sailor Viy posted:2. Why don't wizards just fly everywhere instead of walking, rowing canoes, etc? The apprentices can levitate kegs of beer carefully enough that they don't get fizzy, so flying oneself should be easy. I guess it would be impolite to do it in civilised areas, but it would have saved them a lot of time when they were travelling through that swamp. In the case of the swamps there's a specific answer to why they don't fly - it's the same reason they don't just use illusionary boats. They're trying to keep magic use to a minimum on that trip; I don't remember the exact specifics as to why. More generally, just because apprentices wizard don't fly, doesn't mean Independents more generally don't. You may have noticed that all the adult Independents get around faster than baseline humans should be able to. I don't think any of the narrators in the Commonweal books ever lie, so they're not the traditional sort of unreliable narrator, but the viewpoint character for each book does heavily slant the reader's perspective. On a somewhat related note; the fifth book offers the clearest description of what it means to be carried around by the Line. It turns out the Commonweal military don't do a whole lot of marching with their feet. Or maybe it's the fourth book that I'm thinking of? One of the later ones anyways. LLSix fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 30, 2022 |
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Dec 30, 2022 22:39
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habeasdorkus posted:. Am I missing something or did the final collapse of Reems happen real quick between 543-545 Year of the Peace Established after twenty-ish years of war and destruction? Halt took out an awful lot of sorcerers that would have otherwise slowed down that invasion.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:43
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Sailor Viy posted:
Flying isn't without risks - if you run into something that needs all your focus to confront but you're 50 feet off the ground and need to keep flying, what then? Like the others said though, this gets addressed
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Dec 31, 2022 01:17
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It's not that much of a spoiler to say that the Commonweal's tactical advantage relies on winning without the invaders knowing what hit them. They're not big enough (about 7.5m people versus Reems' ~50m in The March North) to fight a long, knock down drag out fight against a major power that's given a chance to figure out how the Standards work. By the same token, you don't want anyone observing the area to see a bunch of variously mighty sorcerers zipping about on broomsticks or what have you. Also, at least in the old Commonweal, they had the Hard Road. Which is never explained, but appears to be at least in part a rapid transit system. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 04:25
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habeasdorkus posted:Also, at least in the old Commonweal, they had the Hard Road. Which is never explained, but appears to be at least in part a rapid transit system. So are the standards.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:30
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Isn't the Line outside of the Peace Established? So you can't really borrow platoons from the Line to do things like transport goods and people from place to place. e: the line does build roads, as I recall, but those don't give you actual speed without using the Standard to hasten the march. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 04:39
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ulmont posted:So are the standards. But using them that way is hazardous to the health of the standard-captain; the Hard Road seems more, idk, automated?
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Dec 31, 2022 08:01
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habeasdorkus posted:Isn't the Line outside of the Peace Established? So you can't really borrow platoons from the Line to do things like transport goods and people from place to place. There's some bureaucratic and magical reasons that it's not often done, yeah. I believe most relevantly though, it's straight up tradition. It's not until the formation of the Second Commonweal and official state support of wreaking collectives that 'federal' policy begins to include magical solutions to things. But the Second Commonweal still wants to use sorcerers and wreaking collectives for that kind of thing, rather than Line battalions. Also, while Standards are powerful and versatile magical tools, they aren't very great at detail work of any kind. There's one technique the Line has for road making and that's as good as it gets, iirc.
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Dec 31, 2022 11:30
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That's a good point, the Captain mentions very early on that the Creek reservists are amazingly good at fine control since they all work together using civilian focuses - they're able to keep the Reems scouts from swallowing their tongues without chipping any teeth or breaking any jaws and a Regular Line file wouldn't be able to manage that. Also, did we ever conclude how Wapentake is pronounced? In my head it's Wah-pen-tah-kay, but I know it's of Anglo-Saxon origin and not east coast Native American.
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Dec 31, 2022 15:57
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woah i had no idea a wapentake is an actual thing (a political subdivison that is apparently roughly equivalent to the 'hundred')quote:Middle English, from Old English wǣpentæc, from Old Norse vāpnatak act of grasping weapons, from vāpn weapon + tak act of grasping, from taka to take; probably from the brandishing of weapons as an expression of approval when the chief of the wapentake entered upon his office — more at WEAPON, TAKE entry 1
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Dec 31, 2022 17:51
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Pretty much all of the weird titles in the book come from old English. Gerefan (reeve), gesith (companion to a noble, comrade), fylstan (verb for aid, support, help, protect), larhus (school), galdor (magic/spell) etc. If you see something outside your linguistic ken, it's probably old English related.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:03
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I was totally pronouncing Wapentake in my head like it was a native American word, lol. But obviously it's old English like everything else in the book.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:26
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habeasdorkus posted:Pretty much all of the weird titles in the book come from old English. Gerefan (reeve), gesith (companion to a noble, comrade), fylstan (verb for aid, support, help, protect), larhus (school), galdor (magic/spell) etc. If you see something outside your linguistic ken, it's probably old English related. Or French, or Greek, depending. Lots of references to archaic terms from old languages.
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Dec 31, 2022 23:35
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I do really like the use of the French Republican calendar. It's similar enough to what we know to figure out, but foreign enough from our experience to make it seem like a different world.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:11
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Yeah it's a great nod to the Commonweal's big, republican, Now We Do Things Differently energy
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Jan 1, 2023 17:59
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habeasdorkus posted:I do really like the use of the French Republican calendar. It's similar enough to what we know to figure out, but foreign enough from our experience to make it seem like a different world. Yeah it was interesting enough to inspire me to make a purchase: https://www.etsy.com/shop/JacobinCalendar
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Jan 1, 2023 19:09
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LLSix posted:In the case of the swamps there's a specific answer to why they don't fly - it's the same reason they don't just use illusionary boats. They're trying to keep magic use to a minimum on that trip; I don't remember the exact specifics as to why. Yeah I guess that was kind of a silly question. At some point in book 2 it mentions someone (Grue or Blossom) has a technique of just walking at a normal pace but somehow moving 10x the distance. So I figure the answer is "flying is too dangerous for apprentices and full sorcerers have more efficient ways of travelling fast".
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Jan 1, 2023 23:03
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The more talented Independents also tend to create alleged horses and/or Eustacean and/or enchanted howdahs for long distance travel.
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Jan 1, 2023 23:50
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Or shapeshift (or create an arbitrary form out of the Power) into a form capable of flight. The swamp issue was with the ongoing use of Power being a magnet for predators; flight in your normal shape would obviously require continual power use.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:31
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Kalman posted:The swamp issue was with the ongoing use of Power being a magnet for predators Was it? I found a reference to the Power interfering with Wake's dowsing for the target in the swamp, but no more than that.
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Jan 2, 2023 04:46
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ulmont posted:Was it? I found a reference to the Power interfering with Wake's dowsing for the target in the swamp, but no more than that. From the canoe building discussion: “‘Bindings like that are small magic, but still magic. Lots of things out there that attack magic.” Blossom says this as a fact, not as a reason not to try illusory boats.’” … “Anything like that with a tendency to swarm magic, it’d be inconvenient.”
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Jan 2, 2023 08:24
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I've just gotten past that part on my re-read, and apparently the swamps are awful because seemingly every-other Bad Old Days ruler was afraid of slave rebellions being based out of the swamps. Hence why there's so many varieties of venomous, carnivorous ducks.
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Jan 16, 2023 00:53
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There's no way to buy a physical copy of these books, is there? i'd like to gift them to people.
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Jan 16, 2023 00:56
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I think he's just never gotten around to working out the print on demand logistics.
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Jan 16, 2023 01:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's no way to buy a physical copy of these books, is there? i'd like to gift them to people. I’m sure there are sites you could send the .EPUB to?
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Jan 16, 2023 05:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's no way to buy a physical copy of these books, is there? i'd like to gift them to people. There is not. GS in the comments on his blog: "If there should be print versions, they would not happen before I got the series completed (which is expected to be three books from now) and felt able to tackle the logistics."
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Jan 16, 2023 07:29
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I really feel sometimes like I'm wandering about the internet going "Frodo lives!" with my evangelism for these books, and they don't make themselves the easiest to read.
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Jan 16, 2023 15:47
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habeasdorkus posted:I really feel sometimes like I'm wandering about the internet going "Frodo lives!" with my evangelism for these books, and they don't make themselves the easiest to read. Same, I recommend them highly to anyone I think would appreciate them, only gotten one bite so far. The March North has such a strong hook, too, but I'm terrible at getting people to jump on my recommendations, so I suspect I haven't hit on the right way to sell it. Has anyone here had a good hit rate for recommending this series? If so, how'd you present it?
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Jan 16, 2023 19:27
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habeasdorkus posted:I really feel sometimes like I'm wandering about the internet going "Frodo lives!" with my evangelism for these books, and they don't make themselves the easiest to read. Kestral posted:Same, I recommend them highly to anyone I think would appreciate them, only gotten one bite so far. The March North has such a strong hook, too, but I'm terrible at getting people to jump on my recommendations, so I suspect I haven't hit on the right way to sell it. Has anyone here had a good hit rate for recommending this series? If so, how'd you present it? quote:The March North and the other books of the Commonweal by Graydon Saunders. Ostensibly fantasy, but with better consequence and causation and depth of thought than most 'hard' scifi. It's dense like molasses, and as calorically rich with ideas. Slyphic fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 22:18
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nice
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Jan 16, 2023 23:10
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I feel like a good comparison is China Mieville's Bas Lag series, in the sense of "fantasy that actually goes to the effort of thinking about the sociopolitical consequences of magic, as written by someone with a solid foundation in modern history". OK, so I've read The March North, and it was great. What I'm wondering is whether there is a fan-created map and/or lexicon? I feel like I could mostly follow what was going on, but I'm at the point where I'd rather just have at least some reference information to hand rather than the whole "figure it out from primary sources" vibe.
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Jan 16, 2023 23:33
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habeasdorkus posted:I'm re-reading The March North for what must be the fourth time, because there's really nothing else quite like these books, and noticed something that I'm not sure I had grasped on prior re-reads. After the first encounter with the Road of Concentrated Despair there's a discussion between the Captain, Blossom, and Halt about how long ago Reems started using the physical embodiment of despair from millions of people (or hundreds of thousands, made to feel utter despair multiple times). They're sure it's taken well longer than the six years since Rust comprehensively crushed the Archon at Meadows Pass. They guess that Reems is under threat from something even further north, and thus being pushed towards the Commonweal at Meadow's Peak and across the sentient terrain. They consider the possibility of a major summoning having gotten out of Reems control/turning against Reems and that being a cause for Reems moving south (and creating a ready source of despair). The last part gets pretty unambiguously confirmed by the Reems survivors. They say that the the despair was harvested from people Reems conquered, and that was used to bind demons, but now the demons are loose and angry and brought their friends, so "Reems is no more". habeasdorkus posted:Also, did we ever conclude how Wapentake is pronounced? In my head it's Wah-pen-tah-kay, but I know it's of Anglo-Saxon origin and not east coast Native American. OED gives four options. Take your pick! Brit. /ˈwɒp(ə)nteɪk/, /ˈwap(ə)nteɪk/, U.S. /ˈwæpənˌteɪk/, /ˈwɑpənˌteɪk/ I kinda like the first one -- it's like how you pronounce Wapping.
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Jan 16, 2023 23:49
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Lead out in cuffs posted:OK, so I've read The March North, and it was great. What I'm wondering is whether there is a fan-created map and/or lexicon? I feel like I could mostly follow what was going on, but I'm at the point where I'd rather just have at least some reference information to hand rather than the whole "figure it out from primary sources" vibe. there's a map here https://www.deviantart.com/cultureulterior/art/Line-military-overview-map-548623672 (i have to click the image and then additionally do "open image in new tab" in order to actually see any of it though, because of the transparent background) but the person who made this is confused about the difference between east and west. so it's not really a very good reference
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Jan 17, 2023 00:25
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Almost none of that map matches my mental map. I'd have to go back and check the books to be sure which of us is wrong though and 
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Jan 17, 2023 00:56
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Hyphen-ated posted:there's a map here https://www.deviantart.com/cultureulterior/art/Line-military-overview-map-548623672 In fairness to the map author, it took me forever not to think that the Second Commonweal was west of the First; I'm not sure why, but something in my brain just wouldn't accept it. (That said, that map is missing the entirety of the Eastern Waste, which lie between the Creeks and the Folded Hills as far as I can tell, and the placement of Morning Vale in the Creeks instead of the Folded Hills is wrong I think? Lots of other problems, some of which may be due to inconsistency by the author.)
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Jan 17, 2023 01:00
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Kalman posted:In fairness to the map author, it took me forever not to think that the Second Commonweal was west of the First; I'm not sure why, but something in my brain just wouldn't accept it. i think it's because we hear a lot about "westcreek", so you read that and think "oh, west". but westcreek is to the EAST of the first commonweal. it's the westernmost creek quote:(That said, that map is missing the entirety of the Eastern Waste, which lie between the Creeks and the Folded Hills as far as I can tell, and the placement of Morning Vale in the Creeks instead of the Folded Hills is wrong I think? Lots of other problems, some of which may be due to inconsistency by the author.) Hyphen-ated fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 01:16
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Yeah I really have to redo that.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:19
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Hyphen-ated posted:there's a map here https://www.deviantart.com/cultureulterior/art/Line-military-overview-map-548623672 Yeah I'd found that one, and the person is also confused about the direction of the Folded Hills, which are described as running from WNW to ESE, not NNW to SSE as in that map. LLSix posted:Almost none of that map matches my mental map. I'd have to go back and check the books to be sure which of us is wrong though and Lol yep, see above. cultureulterior posted:Yeah I really have to redo that. Oh hey! Yeah it'd be great if you felt up to it. I also feel like the Northern Hills should be deeper than that? The March North spanned about 200km of ground, and the climactic events still happened some indefinite but long distance from the Archonate proper.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:35
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