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Hello Graydons - I have a friend going through a rough patch and looking for “getting swept away” in a story. I kind of want to recommend A Succession of Bad Days, but do you think skipping the first book would be too detrimental? I know the kind of stuff she likes and I think the style would put her off. Plus she could do with more optimism and love than horrible carnage and demon things right now.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:39
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head58 posted:Hello Graydons - I have a friend going through a rough patch and looking for “getting swept away” in a story. I kind of want to recommend A Succession of Bad Days, but do you think skipping the first book would be too detrimental? I know the kind of stuff she likes and I think the style would put her off. Plus she could do with more optimism and love than horrible carnage and demon things right now. That should be fine. The books are largely standalone anyways - everything you need to know is covered again if it becomes relevant. It might even work better if you don't realize Dove is a badass until Edgar discovers that.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:09
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might have to go back and read #1 at some point before either 3 or 4? but i def think you could start with 2, given that a bunch of things the reader knows nothing about just happened off-camera and the main character also literally knows nothing about any of it
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Aug 24, 2023 17:18
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To be fair 1 benefits from (re-)reading after having read the others. It's fun the first time through, but you have a much better idea what's going on after having read the rest. Yeah I'd say let your friend loose on 2. Anyone know how Graydon's going on further books? It's been a few years now since the last one. I'll be sad if he abandons the series. But also I get how much work went into it, so wouldn't blame him if it's become too much.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:28
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Anyone know how Graydon's going on further books?
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Aug 24, 2023 17:32
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Anyone know how Graydon's going on further books? It's been a few years now since the last one. I'll be sad if he abandons the series. But also I get how much work went into it, so wouldn't blame him if it's become too much. Tough to tell since the mailing list died (thanks, Larry). His blog and mastodon are mostly Covid / climate doomer posting, which is not a hopeful sign.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:33
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Lead out in cuffs posted:To be fair 1 benefits from (re-)reading after having read the others. It's fun the first time through, but you have a much better idea what's going on after having read the rest. Definitely have them read 1 before going on to 4/5, I’d say, but I think they’d be okay starting at 2. (Or honestly maybe have them read 1, but start at the post-March part, basically treating the creation of the second Commonweal as a prologue to book 2.) As to progress, last update is a comment on his blog from early this year saying “It's finding the time beyond the requirements of necessity to get much writing done that has challenged me this past few years. I would like to believe that situation is improving, but I've thought that before. So, alas, time will tell, and little else might hope to.”
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Aug 24, 2023 18:28
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Kalman posted:As to progress, last update is a comment on his blog from early this year saying “It's finding the time beyond the requirements of necessity to get much writing done that has challenged me this past few years. I would like to believe that situation is improving, but I've thought that before. So, alas, time will tell, and little else might hope to.” He really does have a distinctive voice, here and in the novels
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Aug 24, 2023 18:47
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Slyphic posted:Well, he hasn't a single peep about them on any of his social media accounts nor blog since he nuked the mailing list. I think he's still mad about it. We emailed about it afterwards, and I don't think he was mad, exactly. I think he's just very busy and since he writes in his spare time, he hasn't had much time to work on it.
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Aug 24, 2023 23:09
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AMOGAS was 2020, right? ain't bad at all for how big and how weird the books are. i know this is a hobby for him but also it seems like the kind of thing he will not be quitting any time soon, i have faith
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Aug 24, 2023 23:16
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So ... Laurel. I think someone in the sci fi thread described them as having performed an experiment to knock down the local wizard lords. But it seems like they had a much bigger design in mind. Did they create the Shape? They must have, to have bound the defeated sorcerers as Independents. So they quite intentionally set up the Commonweal, and likely just as intentionally recognized that they would represent an existential threat to that system if they hung around. If they could make the Shape, they might be able to break or subvert it. So they headed off into the world, with a horde of Graul, but there's no indication of their activities outside the Commonweal, which you might expect if they were stomping around with a wizard-destroying army. But we know Laurel is happy to sit on a mountain for hundreds of years in contemplation. And the Graul can hide and go dormant. Is Laurel hanging out somewhere nearby, waiting for a moment to reappear if necessary? I feel like the narrative so far has set things up for a reappearance.
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Aug 25, 2023 03:12
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Also, what was the wizard Laurel? "There wasn't much [they] didn't know about necromancy", but they also used Ed's entelech-style weeding trick of time-slicing to defeat The Twelve, but they were also a master enchanter. In the world's magical system, individual wizards only get one, maybe two flavours of Talent. Was Laurel a hive-mind like the polycule? Some sort of god?
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Aug 25, 2023 04:09
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Lead out in cuffs posted:So ... Laurel. I think someone in the sci fi thread described them as having performed an experiment to knock down the local wizard lords. But it seems like they had a much bigger design in mind. Did they create the Shape? They must have, to have bound the defeated sorcerers as Independents. So they quite intentionally set up the Commonweal, and likely just as intentionally recognized that they would represent an existential threat to that system if they hung around. If they could make the Shape, they might be able to break or subvert it. As I recall Laurel didn't bind the original Independents to the Shape of the Peace, I'm not even sure she made the Peace, I think that might have been Ongen. Here's a quote from The March North: quote:Halt sounds nearly smug. “Look what Laurel did, as a natural enchanter of notable but not exceptional talent. The first standard-bindings, and your own species, Captain, before the Hard Road; five hundred years, and more to come. Blossom is seven times the enchanter Laurel was and Blossom is young, and much better educated.” Halt doesn't name the Peace as one of Laurel's creations. Here's a quote from A Succession of Bad Days where Blossom (along with Halt) is talking to the kids about Laurel as a lesson about what persistence and experimentation gets you over brilliance and raw power: quote:“All the early Commonweal history says the Foremost marched for Laurel, only then Laurel didn’t assume control of the conquered territories, Laurel went away, no one knows where, with the people who’d been the Foremost. Only they’d never have called themselves that, that’s what they were called after the Shape of Peace got made and the Line came into existence and wanted an example. Only there’s almost forty years in there, and the Twelve were overcome by the Foremost. So what was going on, while everybody was arguing about setting up Parliament?” It sort of implies that a lot of stuff came after Laurel bailed elsewhere in that text. The people left behind Laurel's conquest made the decisions that there would be no slaves and Ongen helped them shape something that would make it possible. Then the Parliament unzipped all of the thirty or so sorcerers that had been defeated by Laurel and asked them if they were willing to be part of what they built. Those that disagreed, perished. Those that agreed and passed the Shape became the Twelve. I suppose Laurel might be out there, but that sort of dramatic reveal doesn't seem consistent with Saunders' style to me. I think she's pretty much gone from the stories, even if she's not gone from the world of the Commonweal. Lead out in cuffs posted:Also, what was the wizard Laurel? "There wasn't much [they] didn't know about necromancy", but they also used Ed's entelech-style weeding trick of time-slicing to defeat The Twelve, but they were also a master enchanter. In the world's magical system, individual wizards only get one, maybe two flavours of Talent. Was Laurel a hive-mind like the polycule? Some sort of god? Laurel was definitely an enchanter, maybe a minor necromancy flavor? Again, like I quoted above, Laurel's an example of what careful study and extensive preparation can get you over native talent and brilliance. She spent almost a thousand years figuring out the battle standards, the Hard Road, and the graul (including the time to breed enough of them), which implies tremendously inhuman patience in figuring things out, when necessary. Broadly speaking, I think Laurel is a metaphor about what Saunders' believes about the difference between "brilliance" and "studying hard and expending extended effort."
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Aug 25, 2023 13:55
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Also, while you only have 1-2 talent flavors, that doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t *use* other types of Power. Flavors are a description of what comes most naturally, but you can learn beyond your flavor. So while Laurel was an enchanter, they could still use necromancy, life magery, etc. (Also, we do know that Laurel was around when the Peace was established. In AMOGAS, in the chapter written from the viewpoint of the Shape, Ongen states “in the Year of the Peace Established 23” and the Shape notes that was five years after Laurel departed. But Ongen also says that the first Shape wasn’t “of Laurel’s making”, though they might have been involved in its design.)
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Aug 25, 2023 17:57
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I recall Laurel doing all that conquering so they'd be left in peace while doing their experimenting, but then realizing that they absolutely did not want to deal with the hassle of maintaining an empire so they hosed off somewhere to get back to what they considered important work. I think one character mentions that Laurel is probably off on a lonely mountaintop somewhere. Laurel is also part of the reason why people talk about Enchanters hitting you with 1000 years - they've had all that time to create stuff to whack you with.
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Aug 25, 2023 18:06
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habeasdorkus posted:
ohhhhhhhhhh I never put that together, I honestly just thought they had a couple bad years. also my favorite scene in the books is when in book 4 or 5 they meet the lost ophidian graul and manage to find one of two non-graul people who could talk to them, a library clerk who picked up graul as a hobby, and then what follows is a very dispassionate account by Slow of a whole bunch of people doing their absolute level best to remember that graul are people and gaping their 2 meter jaws at you so they can look at you better is just how they do things and god dammit we are in the peace and it would be rude to be freaked out also my favorite throwaway line is when a non-character sorceror dies off camera and the answer to what happened to him is "the fourth crusher" Benagain fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 03:48
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Oh yeah! That was the dude who died and took a book with them - they'd memorized the book but never created a hardcopy because there was no place to store it. The dryness of how some things are described are a very Graydon-esque thing.
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Oct 26, 2023 04:20
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Finding this thread and the off-site Let’s Read threads makes me want to dive in again which is stupid cause I JUST REREAD THESE!! If I do, I might do a Let’s Read here, since the off-site threads never made it past 1/2 way through book 3
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Nov 4, 2023 23:52
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navyjack posted:If I do, I might do a Let’s Read here, since the off-site threads never made it past 1/2 way through book 3 
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Nov 5, 2023 00:09
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Recruit anyone else who talks about these boos to come here
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Nov 5, 2023 00:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Recruit anyone else who talks about these boos to come here I will do it by talking about them endlessly in the sci-fi thread, using the dozens of accounts that I, Graydon Saunders, use to boost my books (available on Google Play!!)
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Nov 5, 2023 00:18
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navyjack posted:Finding this thread and the off-site Let’s Read threads makes me want to dive in again which is stupid cause I JUST REREAD THESE!! Do it you coward
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Nov 12, 2023 00:18
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Benagain posted:Do it you coward  Also make sure to link the thread here so we know to follow it
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Nov 13, 2023 04:53
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If you, Graydon Saunders, author of the Commonweal series, make a Let's Read, then I, Graydon Saunders, author of the Commonweal series, will read along with you (me)
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Nov 13, 2023 19:45
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And I, Graydon Saunders, will read along with the other Graydons Saunders.
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Nov 14, 2023 00:17
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Benagain posted:Do it you coward If I do it’ll be after the holidays. And I will be certain to link here so all the Graydon Saunders’ can follow along.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:35
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note to self: same
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Nov 14, 2023 15:38
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Welp, Graydon has taken the position on Covid that no one should ever be going outside without a respirator until Covid has been extirpated entirely, so... maybe he'll have more time to write since he clearly won't be getting out much?
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Dec 4, 2023 05:20
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habeasdorkus posted:Welp, Graydon has taken the position on Covid that no one should ever be going outside without a respirator until Covid has been extirpated entirely, so... maybe he'll have more time to write since he clearly won't be getting out much? You’d like to think so, but doomscrolling the news takes up more time than you think (plus he’s got a real job which I think keeps him fairly busy).
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Dec 4, 2023 05:28
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Yeah, true. Plus, who's going to read our books since apparently we're all going to have long Covid and thus won't be capable of reading what he puts out.
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Dec 4, 2023 05:41
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habeasdorkus posted:Welp, Graydon has taken the position on Covid that no one should ever be going outside without a respirator until Covid has been extirpated entirely, so... maybe he'll have more time to write since he clearly won't be getting out much? 
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Dec 4, 2023 17:46
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All Expedient Means 
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Dec 6, 2023 00:52
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I was gripped by an awful urge to remix some of the Commonweal Independents as Grimdark Sorcerers. It just wouldn't leave me alone, so, well, here it is. Can you tell which Independent was the inspiration? Magic will give you just as many mutually contradictory laws as you are witless enough to seek. For this reason and many others, young wizards are trained by one of the Mighty. An aspiring sorcerer's teacher does not define everything about them, but they do shape them. Often in ways they don't realize until long after. This tale focuses on an apprentice of which of the Mighty? The Endless The Endless's students never forget the first time they saw it. Him. It. No matter how hard or how often they try. Most believe the Endless got his cognomen because of the endless armies of the dead he commands, and find comfort in this misapprehension. The Healer She once extracted a man's brain and regrew him a body from his brain alone - that being easier than curing him of the parasitic magic that had infested him. In another time and place she'd have been feared as a wicked queen who's beauty lured men and women to their deaths. In this time, those she taught have saved the world twice over and not nearly enough. Though she freely teaches all who come to her, only her apprentice knows her secrets. The Liar The merely mortal can be mistaken for thinking the Liar is the most plain and honest man they've ever seen. He works hard to keep it that way. But even under the influence of his silver tongue the concept of "good" shies from his presence. Among the least successful of his lies was persuading metal to melt and a field of flowers to feast on the armies of his enemies. The Greatest The Greatest is unmatched in power even among the mighty. Were any two of them sane, they would not contest her will. It is often said that the only equal to her might is her ruthlessness. It is the salvation of the world that her ruthlessness is applied first and most fully to herself. It is the damnation of the world that she did not stop there. The Valorous The dearest ambition of the Valorous is to punch dragons. Preferably plural. Thanks to his efforts; the young now believe dragons to be nothing more than myths. Lacking dragons, he has a tendency to get bored. A terrible, terrible tendency. LLSix fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Dec 13, 2023 |
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Dec 13, 2023 04:10
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Wake, Grue, Rust, Halt, Block ?
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Dec 13, 2023 15:50
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The thing that’s great about the commonweal is that it doesn’t need remixing to make the independents grimdark because the books say “what does it look like for these dark legends out of time to work for a society”
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Dec 14, 2023 14:38
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LLSix posted:
Like the only thing that is remixed about this description of grue is that it leaves out the actual incredibly scary thing they did lol the rest is literal text. Marrying this with working to better others is one of the two Things the last four books are About Also sorry I do think it’s cool that you did this I just figured it’s worth mentioning
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Dec 14, 2023 14:41
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fritz posted:Wake, Grue, Rust, Halt, Block ? You got them all right! Phobeste posted:The thing that’s great about the commonweal is that it doesn’t need remixing to make the independents grimdark because the books say “what does it look like for these dark legends out of time to work for a society” Yeah, that's fair.
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Dec 14, 2023 14:50
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Just finished up the second book. Boy howdy I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds the prose to be sort of impenetrable at times. Very excited to read the rest of them though. Book 2 spoiler question: Is there any real further explanation as to what an entelech actually -is-? Like some sort of extra-dimensional mind parasite or something?
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Dec 22, 2023 03:02
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I think it does get discussed more, you're more or less correct - an entelech is an extremely powerful being that pops into the world by consuming the power and personality of the person it's gotten attached to. This has been in the past universally fatal for either the hatching entelech or, more commonly, their beloved. It's not common for an entelech to remain sane after hatching.
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Dec 22, 2023 03:27
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Bishop Beo posted:Just finished up the second book. Boy howdy I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds the prose to be sort of impenetrable at times. You got it correctly. Also, Halt is one.
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Dec 22, 2023 03:36
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