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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Consider getting a controller possibly maybe idk

General notes:
- the guy in the house probably aggroed on you because he heard your missed arrow dink into the wall
- I'm not convinced that's not actually Havel in the basement. Gwyn is also a God but at the same time a dude you can chain-parry to death
- lol at the music video
- why were you so hellbent on fighting the black knight right here right now? It makes much more sense to me both design- and roleplay-wise to go "this is way too much for me rn" and come back later

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Edward_Tohr
Aug 11, 2012

In lieu of meaningful text, I'm just going to mention I've been exploding all day and now it hurts to breathe, so I'm sure you all understand.
I do like how that first Black Knight encounter is designed — he’s down a side path, and won’t aggro unless you get close or attack, so even to a first-time player, the fight only happens if you initiate it.

And the knights stand out and are obviously dangerous. They’re big, they’re wearing a full suit of armor, and said armor is both well-maintained and clean. Every other enemy you can fight up to now has either been a crazy zombie wearing tattered rags and scraps of armor, or some crazy giant monster. The fact that these guys are humanoid, large, and lucid enough to care for their equipment is a great way of making them feel out-of-place from the word go.

On top of all that, it’s also a reminder that you can (and should!) pick the battlefield — if you try to fight him in the alleyway, you’ll almost certainly eat poo poo every time. Even just retreating up the stairs gives you way more room to maneuver around, let alone going all the way back to the rooftop before the bonfire.

Shame that the item isn’t great, but usually the fights with the Black Knights are their own reward.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Simply Simon posted:

Consider getting a controller possibly maybe idk

General notes:
- the guy in the house probably aggroed on you because he heard your missed arrow dink into the wall
- I'm not convinced that's not actually Havel in the basement. Gwyn is also a God but at the same time a dude you can chain-parry to death
- lol at the music video
- why were you so hellbent on fighting the black knight right here right now? It makes much more sense to me both design- and roleplay-wise to go "this is way too much for me rn" and come back later

I do have a controller and I used it for the boss fight actually (because doing a single normal attack instead of a strong attack would be certain death, so I really need there to be a dedicated strong attack button!). Until making the video though I didn't realize that my keyboard and mouse were causing problems against the Black Knight. I just assumed I was messing up my parry timing since I hadn't played in a year.

As for why I fight the black knight now- it's just part of the challenge run. No delaying bosses or minibosses until I'm stronger.
I agree that it doesn't make much sense from a roleplaying standpoint. But almost nothing in Dark Souls makes sense from a roleplaying standpoint. Your character MUST be single-minded and stupid and consistently choose to fight giant monsters instead of climbing waist-high fences, and you're not allowed to talk or negotiate or ask questions or spare enemies. For that matter, a lot of enemy behavior doesn't make sense from a roleplaying standpoint. A lot of enemies have no intelligent reason to fight you to the death instead of running away, hiding, or talking. It's an action game first, and a roleplaying game second or third.

As for the Havel Warrior in the basement- there is no reason to believe he is the actual Havel. All 3 dark souls games are full of people wearing that identical armor, the ring and item descriptions clearly establish that they are gear worn by followers of Havel, and if you dig through the game files and translate the Japanese to English, he is very clearly labeled as 'warrior of Havel'. The English translation is also very bad in that it describes him as a bishop, when there is absolutely nothing in the Japanese version saying he is a bishop or anything like that.

Glad you liked the music video section! I had that idea before starting this series. Most of my other jokes or additions are just things I thought of while making it, so that's a rare exception.



Edward_Tohr posted:

I do like how that first Black Knight encounter is designed — he’s down a side path, and won’t aggro unless you get close or attack, so even to a first-time player, the fight only happens if you initiate it.

And the knights stand out and are obviously dangerous. They’re big, they’re wearing a full suit of armor, and said armor is both well-maintained and clean. Every other enemy you can fight up to now has either been a crazy zombie wearing tattered rags and scraps of armor, or some crazy giant monster. The fact that these guys are humanoid, large, and lucid enough to care for their equipment is a great way of making them feel out-of-place from the word go.

On top of all that, it’s also a reminder that you can (and should!) pick the battlefield — if you try to fight him in the alleyway, you’ll almost certainly eat poo poo every time. Even just retreating up the stairs gives you way more room to maneuver around, let alone going all the way back to the rooftop before the bonfire.

Shame that the item isn’t great, but usually the fights with the Black Knights are their own reward.


I agree, the Black knight section shows great design! And the way he looks definitely makes him seem ominous and dangerous. The one thing about him that might be a nasty surprise is just how fast he is, since everything in Dark Souls up until then has been teaching you that heavy armor = slow.



SIGSEGV posted:

Your editing remains top notch.

I used kbm all the way through the game and it served me well, I found that it was a lot better for multitasking preparations and generally didn't bother me much.

E: Regarding hitboxes, there are always a couple wonky ones per game, most enemy spears in DS2 are as wide as they appear but some are as wide as a barrel, in Bloodborne, Ebrietas has an attack that has a badly defined node that causes a hitbox to stretch incorrectly across her side, turning a number of perfectly good dodges into unpleasant slaps.

For whatever reason, I was always more comfortable with keyboard and mouse for DS1 and controllers for DS2 and DS3

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

To add to your list of gripes about the Hellkite drake trap, you can make it through if youre below 25% equip load but not otherwise. So even the messages from other players that normally guide you in these kind of things are inconsistent.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

bike tory posted:

To add to your list of gripes about the Hellkite drake trap, you can make it through if youre below 25% equip load but not otherwise. So even the messages from other players that normally guide you in these kind of things are inconsistent.

I have a whole other list of complaints about the Hellkite drake as a fight, and his terrible hitboxes (terrible both in that he can miss you even when he clearly hit, and vice versa) and garbage AI and numerous bugs!

But I just beat him, and I did it without any of the numerous cheeses.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

bike tory posted:

To add to your list of gripes about the Hellkite drake trap, you can make it through if youre below 25% equip load but not otherwise. So even the messages from other players that normally guide you in these kind of things are inconsistent.

I've been testing this a few times and I can't consistently get through even at 25% equip load and with massive stamina so that I can sprint on and on. Very often I get hit while I'm partway down the stairs.

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

It's been a year or two since I played through DS, but IIRC you don't need to get down the stairs, there are safe spots at the top.

Add the weird hitbox of the fire to the list of gripes though.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
Ep 5: Slaying Hellkite, and Undead Parish

I was tempted to just slip by Hellkite like most people do and dismiss the fight as not meant to be done until later, but pride won out and so did I.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Melth posted:

Ep 5: Slaying Hellkite, and Undead Parish

I was tempted to just slip by Hellkite like most people do and dismiss the fight as not meant to be done until later, but pride won out and so did I.

Really impressive work on this one- as you say, I've never seen someone go toe to toe with it like that. I'm very curious what causes the AI to bug out so badly!

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
I haven't played a lot of Dks1 compared to other Souls games but dropping the gate blew my mind. What a cool trick.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

WaltherFeng posted:

I haven't played a lot of Dks1 compared to other Souls games but dropping the gate blew my mind. What a cool trick.

These games (especially this one) are full of all kinds of interesting, little-known tricks!


Discendo Vox posted:

Really impressive work on this one- as you say, I've never seen someone go toe to toe with it like that. I'm very curious what causes the AI to bug out so badly!

I'm curious about that too. I think I have a beginning of an idea of how this drake's AI works. It seems to walk almost as if it was on rails, always staying at the center of the bridge and then advancing or turning around in place. It seems not to be able to progress beyond a certain point in either direction (on foot anyway). Effectively that's where the rails end. When you're at the end of the rail it can't keep advancing toward you. But being in front of the head when it's at the end of the rail might be something of a blind spot where it doesn't think any of its attacks can hit you (and indeed most of them can't).

I think a lot of souls bosses have a pool of attacks they draw from randomly based on where you are in relation to the boss, with the choice to advance toward you being one of those moves. Possibly when you're in front of the head by a little bit, hellkite is programmed to just walk closer as its only option, but can't do that at the end of the rail?

Maybe whenever it gets hit it picks a new move (if not currently doing one). And if it keeps picking 'walk closer' then it does nothing.

Also when you change from one move pool area to another it can pick a new move. And it has a lot of moves available if you are at its head's distance or closer, but almost no moves available if you're in that sweet spot a few feet beyond its head.

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

The Seig* NPCs are the only himbos of the dark souls world, you leave them alone. God is his quest frustratingly difficult to finish satisfactorily though.

bloody good work with the drake though, I've certainly never bothered myself. I'm surprised how easy the tail was to cut on NG6+ though, I think even on regular NG it takes like 40-50 arrows. Those lightning spells do a lot of damage for that stage in the game!

Gun Jam
Apr 11, 2015

bike tory posted:

The Seig* NPCs are the only himbos of the dark souls world, you leave them alone.

You forgot about Solaire.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

bike tory posted:

The Seig* NPCs are the only himbos of the dark souls world, you leave them alone. God is his quest frustratingly difficult to finish satisfactorily though.

bloody good work with the drake though, I've certainly never bothered myself. I'm surprised how easy the tail was to cut on NG6+ though, I think even on regular NG it takes like 40-50 arrows. Those lightning spells do a lot of damage for that stage in the game!

Only because of damage falloff. If you have the hawk ring youd need a lot less.
Cuttable tails have ridiculously low hp compared to what theyre attached to, this isnt monster hunter.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Only because of damage falloff. If you have the hawk ring youd need a lot less.
Cuttable tails have ridiculously low hp compared to what theyre attached to, this isnt monster hunter.

The distance damage falloff is definitely a big part of it. Even without the hawk ring, simply squeezing along the lower bridge as close to the tail as you can get makes a significant difference in how many arrows it takes to cut.

However on NG+6 I think I'd need hundreds even with the hawk ring because early arrows are so weak.



bike tory posted:

Those lightning spells do a lot of damage for that stage in the game!

Part of that relates to some of the details of the game's damage formula. On NG+6, enemies have not only massively higher HP, but also somewhat higher defense stats.
Higher defense makes a BIG difference against a weak damage source, but almost no difference at all against a strong damage source.
So it's sort of like there's a double benefit to using something that hits hard on NG+6. Not only do you just deal more damage as you always would expect, but you also get to almost negate the increased enemy defense, thus inflicting even more damage.

And part of it also is just that I invested a lot into making those lightning spells be strong. Almost all my numerous level ups went into faith, I have a phenomenal talisman because I started as a cleric, and so on.

Melth fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Oct 21, 2022

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

Gun Jam posted:

You forgot about Solaire.

Nah Solaire isn't dumb enough, and his mission is too dark in tone.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Only because of damage falloff. If you have the hawk ring youd need a lot less.
Cuttable tails have ridiculously low hp compared to what theyre attached to, this isnt monster hunter.

Right. I actually looked it up, it goes from only 240 HP on NG to 600 on NG+. It looks like on NG6+ it has about 1200?

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

bike tory posted:

Nah Solaire isn't dumb enough, and his mission is too dark in tone.

Right. I actually looked it up, it goes from only 240 HP on NG to 600 on NG+. It looks like on NG6+ it has about 1200?

Wikidot (which is by far the best of the 3 Dark Souls wikis but still imperfect) says it only has 750 on NG+6.

That does fit with my lightning spear damage if the 1.5x damage that the drake takes when I hit that tail sweet spot only applies against its full HP bar rather than the tail itself. Which is just crazy enough to be true in this bizarrely complicated game.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


At the time I played, I read Siegmeyer as going senile before going hollow and his despondency and inaction being part of that, with a not too unhappy veneer on top out of habit.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
The Dark Souls 1 servers are back online!

Of course, I don't dare play online with mods, but at least it works again for other characters, and maybe I can show a bit of PvP later.

Mara and I have been doing a fairly casual co-op run as well.

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

Does this mean you're continuing the LP? I've been very much enjoying it :)

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









bike tory posted:

Does this mean you're continuing the LP? I've been very much enjoying it :)

yes please! i just nailed through all six eps and it's extremely entertaining. I'm keen to hear your thoughts on lower undead burg!

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

bike tory posted:

Does this mean you're continuing the LP? I've been very much enjoying it :)

I'm definitely continuing it! I'm traveling most of this month though so I'm making simpler videos for the time being.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Watching this, on episode 2, and this might be my new favorite Dark Souls LP. I am loving the lore information!

DumbRodent
Jan 15, 2013

Heart Thumping Field Trip
BIG PANIC?
Oh I /love/ your presentation and style. Loving the lore focus and pacing here. Keep up the great work!

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

StrixNebulosa posted:

Watching this, on episode 2, and this might be my new favorite Dark Souls LP. I am loving the lore information!

Thank you! I'm glad to hear people like it.



DumbRodent posted:

Oh I /love/ your presentation and style. Loving the lore focus and pacing here. Keep up the great work!

Thanks, I just finished a bonus video for this series today, one I've been wanting to make even before the series started.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Yeah I've been waiting for you to continue this one

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
The No-Hit, No-Cheese Guide to Hellkite (Featuring Ornstein)

I've been wanting to make a video about this for years, ever since finding that youtube is full of dozens of nearly identical videos about how to cheese this fight in various boring ways, with not a single video tackling it legitimately that I ever found.

Lynneth
Sep 13, 2011

Melth posted:

The No-Hit, No-Cheese Guide to Hellkite (Featuring Ornstein)

I've been wanting to make a video about this for years, ever since finding that youtube is full of dozens of nearly identical videos about how to cheese this fight in various boring ways, with not a single video tackling it legitimately that I ever found.

I've a question, why are you doing facecam all of a sudden? Personally, I find that sort of thing distracting from the actual video content.
Mind, it's still a good and interesting vid, but half the time I get distracted by your face rather than looking at what's going on in the footage.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


I think it works pretty fine for the 50% LP 50% teacher's zoom mediated classroom style, it is distracting, but that's partly the point of it.


Also good grief that hitbox gore, Bloodborne had some really bad one at times, and since people developed tools to read them, we got to see the mistakes in all their glory.

SystemLogoff
Feb 19, 2011

End Session?

I was going to say that I'm fine with facecam, but wow that's a lot of the frame taken up.

For future videos you might want to consider using chroma key to take out the background and make your face smaller as to not block 1/6th of the screen.

Still great fight with the Dragon.

SystemLogoff fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Mar 20, 2023

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

SIGSEGV posted:

I think it works pretty fine for the 50% LP 50% teacher's zoom mediated classroom style, it is distracting, but that's partly the point of it.


Also good grief that hitbox gore, Bloodborne had some really bad one at times, and since people developed tools to read them, we got to see the mistakes in all their glory.

Before I did this LP, I thought that DS1's hitboxes were almost universally good (especially compared to 2). But as I've gone along and been looking at videos frame by frame for various reasons, I've started to notice a few really bad ones. Then of course there are indeed some that are so good as to be elegant to watch.


Lynneth posted:

I've a question, why are you doing facecam all of a sudden? Personally, I find that sort of thing distracting from the actual video content.
Mind, it's still a good and interesting vid, but half the time I get distracted by your face rather than looking at what's going on in the footage.

Thanks for the feedback, there's a few reasons I tried using a camera for this one. One is just that I frequently try new things to improve my video editing skills, and to find ways to make the videos better. Using my camera in the last few videos for various games has been a chance to learn new tricks both for positioning the camera, and for editing the finished footage.

A second reason is that I'm always trying to cultivate the most authentic, in-the-moment commentary and viewing experience I can. I keep my videos unscripted and try to speak off the cuff and do as little post-commentary as possible. I thought that adding video to my live commentary would enhance that aspect of the experience.

And a third reason is that, as SIGSEGV mentioned, this particular video has something of a classroom style. It seemed appropriate for this kind of video, and I hoped it would also help keep viewers interested through some of the parts of the video that might otherwise be dry.


SystemLogoff posted:

I was going to say that I'm fine with facecam, but wow that's a lot of the frame taken up.

For future videos you might want to consider using chroma key to take out the background and make your face smaller as to not block 1/6th of the screen.

Still great fight with the Dragon.

That sounds like a useful tip! I haven't heard of Chroma Key before. And yeah, point taken about the camera being a lot of the frame in this one. My previous videos using a camera had had it in a smaller portion, and I thought I'd see how things went if it was bigger since on this video there was usually a corner of the screen where nothing important was happening anyway. Rewatching it though, it's a lot of space.

Slightly Absurd
Mar 22, 2004


you've heard of chroma key before, just under its colloquial name, "green screen." [in obs, it's under "video filters"]

i actually use a blue bedsheet that happens to match the default "blue" option that works pretty well

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

I'm going to echo that I'm not a fan of the facecam. I don't mind them too often but that ratio of face to screen is too much face. Sorry!

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Clearly what you need is a vtuber facerig setup.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I happened to have a streamer's VOD on one screen and yours on the other yesterday (didn't watch them simultaneously, just happened that way), so I had a direct comparison. Recreation:



I think it'd be a good idea to take inspiration from people who've been doing this for a while now. I'm not the biggest fan of facecams either, but I see your point about the lecture style here - hell, I've recorded video lectures myself with a facecam in a corner - and I think how this guy does it is pretty unobtrusive. Maybe you can find actual Dark Souls streamers and their videos too, so you can get an idea for the best placement - e.g. where you don't obstruct the soul counter, if that's important for you to show as a UI element.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Discendo Vox posted:

Clearly what you need is a vtuber facerig setup.

Genius!
I've always been baffled by that whole concept, but I'm glad those folks have a hobby they enjoy.



Slightly Absurd posted:

you've heard of chroma key before, just under its colloquial name, "green screen." [in obs, it's under "video filters"]

i actually use a blue bedsheet that happens to match the default "blue" option that works pretty well

Interesting, I've certainly heard of green screens, though I only know the barest understanding of how they work.

voiceless anal fricative
May 6, 2007

Loved to see this updated! I'm looking forward to another video too. nth-ing the suggestions to shrink the facecam a bit though, and investigate bluescreen/greenscreen/whatever. Should be pretty trivial to do in post.

Pomax
Aug 16, 2012
I prefer face cams only on streams, rather than on LP's, but you've changed format plenty of times in the past, and the content's always been worth sticking around for =)

Small middle English nit: we're hurrying towards thy death, not thine death. (It'd be thine if the next word started on a vowel, like "thine end", or as possessive pronoun: "Thy death, it shall be thine")

Pomax fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Apr 1, 2023

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Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Pomax posted:

Small middle English nit: we're hurrying towards thy death, not thine death. (It'd be thine if the next word started on a vowel, like "thine end", or as possessive pronoun: "Thy death, it shall be thine")

Yeah, one thing that bugs me a bit about all the souls games is that they don't know what they're doing with their attempts to use antiquated language. Lots of characters sound pretty silly when I'm sure the effect is supposed to be the opposite. As usual, Dark Souls 2 was the worst offender in that regard, with all its pretentious nonsense being highlighted by accidentally poor grammar and other mistakes.

I think that if one wants to portray a character as being ancient (or very formal) there are other ways to do it- or one should take the time to find a writer/translator who knows what they're doing.



bike tory posted:

Loved to see this updated! I'm looking forward to another video too. nth-ing the suggestions to shrink the facecam a bit though, and investigate bluescreen/greenscreen/whatever. Should be pretty trivial to do in post.

To do any kind of chroma key, I would need to put some kind of blue or green object behind me during recording, right? I did try seeing if I could just chroma key the white/gray wall out in OBS, but that doesn't work very well from what I tried.

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