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After 30 years of existing in comic book form, Neil Gaiman's magnum opus about dreams and the lord of their realm is finally coming to life as a Netflix series that drops on August 5th.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWJTB6FPVaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJXamnPUm0I What is The Sandman you may ask? The Sandman is based on the wildly successful and influential comic series that initially ran in DC/Vertigo Comics for 75 issues from 1989 to 1996 and tells the saga of Morpheus, the Lord of Dreams who after being captured for a century by a wannabe hedge magician must reclaim his tools of power, fix his crumbling realm and face the consequences of the many mistakes he has made over eons. He is part of a family of powerful beings called The Endless, all anthropomorphic embodiments of different aspects of life in the universe including Death, Destiny, Despair, Desire, Delirium, and the long-lost Destruction. Apart from his siblings, there is a colorful cast of characters from his realm, The Dreaming, and the many mortal humans his journey will change the lives of along the way. I can't believe this is finally happening. Over the years, there have been many attempts to adapt Sandman into a movie, and according to Gaiman, they were all lacking. (Producer Jon Peters almost made a version with a giant mechanical spider that he finally put in Wild Wild West!) The last attempt was in 2013 when Joseph Gordon Leavitt signed on to produce and star as one of Dream's chief nightmares, The Corinthian. Eventually, Gordon-Leavitt left due to creative differences with the production, and Gaiman and fellow producer David Goyer turned their attention to streaming television. After the huge success of Good Omens, which Gaiman wrote and show-ran, their pitch was unique: Have Gaiman directly involved in the writing and production of the adaptation, which according to Goyer had never been suggested prior. Netflix leaped at the chance and secured the rights to distribute the show, co-producing it alongside Warner Brothers Television. Production was delayed due to the pandemic, but began shooting in October of 2020 and lasted almost an entire year, wrapping in August of 2021. Gaiman and Goyer produce alongside Allan Heinberg (writer for Sex in the City, Gilmore Girls, and Wonder Woman) who also acts as the showrunner. Gaiman says the show is faithful to the comics but will provide new surprises for even the most ardent fan of the comics. The first season is set to adapt the first two major storylines from the comics, Preludes and Nocturnes about Dream's escape and search for his tools, and The Doll's House about a young girl searching for her brother and her encounters with Morpheus and several of his dreams.   A large diverse cast fills the roles of these iconic characters. Tom Sturridge (Far From The Maddening Crowd, Velvet Buzzsaw) is Dream/Morpheus Kirby Howell-Baptiste (The Good Place, Barry) is Death, Dream's older (and favorite) sister Gwendoline Christie (Game of Thrones, Star Wars) is Lucifer, lord of Hell and an obstacle Dream must face Boyd Holbrook (Logan, The Predator) is The Corinthian, one of Dream's worst nightmares who has escaped Jenna Coleman (Doctor Who, Victoria) is Johanna Constantine, a gender-flipped take on John Constantine (and also plays her ancestor with the same name) Mason Alexander Park (Cowboy Bebop) is Desire, Dream's non-binary sibling that holds a grudge against their brother. David Thewlis (Harry Potter, Wonder Woman) is John Dee/Doctor Destiny, a madman who has one of Dream's totems of power and uses it to terrible effect Charles Dance (Game of Thrones, Last Action Hero) is Roderick Burgess, the hedge magician and occultist that captures Dream Stephen Fry (God what do I even put here. It's that Stephen Fry. He's awesome) is Gilbert, a mysterious mustached man who aids a young girl important to Dream's journey oh and Patton Oswalt is voicing Matthew, Dream's Raven and Mark Hamill is voicing Mervyn Pumpkinhead, Dream's scarecrow janitor. And that's just to name a few. Now some of these casting choices have ruffled some feathers out there in ol' internet land, but I think it's an incredibly solid cast that will hopefully do the story justice.  The Sandman is arguably one of the most influential comic books/graphic novels that has ever been published, standing alongside classics like Watchmen and set Gaiman's career into motion. As a fan of the series, which i read in college and have loved ever since I am very excited to see it finally brought to the screen, and to have Gaiman personally writing and producing along with the showrunner is really the best case scenario (especially after the mess that is American Gods final season) and considering how good Good Omens turned out, I have faith this will be a very entertaining show and the trailers they've released, short as they are, seem to corroborate that story. August 5th can't come soon enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBXqrBl6pEo TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 03:39
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Rappaport posted:So how is this going to work? Are they going to cover the entire comic series in one season, or what? I forgot to put it in the OP but the first season covers the first two collected editions, Preludes and Nocturnes and The Doll's House, and potentially one or two of the short stories from Dream Country, but they have been vague about what stories will show up if any from that volume.
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Jul 10, 2022 04:08
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^^^ There it is! Open Source Idiom posted:It's been a loooong time since I read the comics, but beyond the typical expectations the come with reading a text that's thirty years old, is there anything particularly problematic about The Sandman? (I assume this is something to do with A Game of You (comics spoilers) featuring a TERF?) When I called him problematic it was purely because Morpheus as a character is a gigantic rear end in a top hat who does problematic poo poo and has to face the consequences of it through the entire series. The series isn't problematic, it was me making, perhaps poorly, a joke at the expense of the main character. (I still love Morpheus though. he's a mess, but he's a fun mess) A Game of You is actually pretty good representation and the TERFY stuff is given to characters who are clearly not intended to be good or well-intentioned, and very clearly dont' share the opinion of the writer Open Source Idiom posted:Also what's the thread's spoiler policy? IMO adaptation threads can get pretty tendentious, it's worth establishing a clear policy in the OP and then sticking with it, or we'll end up with a bunch of toxic circular conversations. I'd say the general rules of TVIV Spoilers goes. Before it airs, some plot points may need to be spoiled (I omitted a few things from the OP that I felt were spoiler-y for non-readers)
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Jul 10, 2022 04:49
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muscles like this! posted:It'll be interesting to see how much of the DC comics stuff survives. I assume it will mostly just be the characters with the greater context stripped out. So like David Thewlis' character won't mention fighting the Justice League and we're not going to see Arkham Asylum. The biggest DC stuff that will probably be brought up is Hector and Lyta Hall, since Lyta plays such an important role in the overall series, but yeah I imagine we won't get much DC content. No Scarecrow hanging himself or Martian Manhunter seeing Dream as a giant flaming head (although the second one would be dope as hell)
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Jul 10, 2022 05:34
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Alhazred posted:Ironically the one merciful thing he does, killing his son, is the one thing that dooms him. Not the endless rear end in a top hat stuff he does. For sure, although his treatment of Lyta and claiming her son as his own certainly started that path. But his kindness to Orpheus was very much the coffin nail. Gaiman really nailed the Greek Tragedy feel he was going for.
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Jul 10, 2022 16:01
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Actor Asim Chaudhry plays Abel in the series (for non-readers, Cain and Able from the biblical story got new jobs as basically horror hosts like the Cryptkeeper and live in Morpheus' kingdom now) and he just posted a high-res expanded photo that was recently featured in Empire Magazine of him and his lil' pet Gargoyle Goldie   Abel is one of my favorite side characters and this is almost a perfect re-creation of him. Holy Moly. TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 10, 2022 |
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Jul 10, 2022 17:31
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Alhazred posted:I honestly wish that they'd kept Matt Ryan as Constantine. The show wasn't all that, but he was perfect. Jenna Coleman is okay at best. I also wish that they'd kept Lucien's weird hair and ears. Constantine is specifically being done because JJ Abrahms is doing an HBO Max show about him so the character isn't avalible for use elsewhere. It's Matt Ryan was booted from the CW shows he was guesting on. Jenna playing both the ancestor and the modern day occultist is just a workaround that Neil thought worked well enough. (They are attempting to spin it as "we always wanted female Constantine, but it is very clearly just that...spin) I LOVE the look of the actress playing Lucien/Lucienne, but I agree about the hair. She does have pointy ears though.
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Jul 10, 2022 23:26
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Chaudry as Abel and Sanjeev Bhaskar as Cain are utterly perfect casting. I'm so pumped due those two that I regularly forget Charles Dance is here too. I hope Sanjeev sports the really spikey hair with the insane widows peak because then the two of them are spot on. When I first read Sandman if you asked me what characters would be cut for time in an adaptation, I'd say Cain and Abel but I'm so glad they arent.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:56
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IShallRiseAgain posted:This has been in production hell for a long time, so I'm very skeptical about it being good. Well, it might be an American God situation where the first season is good, but every season after is bad. Now going off what Neil Gaiman has said (which, to be fair, he is very polite even about things he dislikes*) he says that the series is as good as he could have hoped for, with most episodes rating 8 out of 10 for him with one in particular being a 10 out of 10 and he says that the ones that didn't hit were the product of shooting during COVID which presented limitations they couldn't really work around. He also says that he is MUCH happier with this than any of American Gods, which apart from the few episodes he helped write, he seems to be less and less fond of as time goes on. (Because WOOF that show took a dive) As for Netflix, apparently part of the deal they signed for Sandman, if they decide to pull the plug, Warner Brothers can shop it around, and considering they are looking for content for HBO Max I assume it would just shift to MAX if Netflix ditches after a season or two. *I once met him and his second episode of Doctor Who had just aired, which I had enjoyed and told him as much. He thanked me and very kindly told me all the things he didn't like about the episode, but it was the most polite way to possibly say "They hosed up my script"
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Jul 11, 2022 16:28
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I loved s1 of American gods and Neil gaiman seemed to hate it enough that he kicked off the show runner and got personally involved, I feel like he had a lot to do with it taking a dive Quite possibly, although he had very little to do with Season 3 and that's when it bit it for me. From what it seems it was more a Stars/Freemantle productions issue that kicked off Brian Fuller but Neil didn't seem to mind them leaving either so.... Regardless, Neil is very secretive in public when it comes to not liking something if he can be, because his public persona isn't someone who is rude, so he keeps a lot of that behind the scenes stuff to himself, I've noticed.
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Jul 11, 2022 18:51
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more higher-res photos from the recent Empire Magazine spread about the show have been released, to tide us over until they release a final trailer (Which will likely be next week during Comic-Con) and the actual release on the 5th.  Dream pays his sibling Desire a visit in their domain, known as The Threshold. A fun thing with this shot is the collection of sigils hanging from the ceiling. Spoiler for non-readers Each Endless has a sigil, and in each of their realms they have copies of the sigils so they can summon each other if needed. The sigils in this shot are ordered identical to the panel from the comic, but the comic had them in the wrong order, since the egyptian Ankh should be second, rather than first. When Neil Gaiman noticed they had replicated the shot faithfully he told them because he found it funny and they asked him if they wanted to change it and he said no, keep it just like the comic book  Dream standing beside Lucienne (his gender swapped Librarian, formerly Lucien) admiring several new dreams and nightmares he is creating to help rebuild his realm after being gone so long This next one is a bit of a spoiler for non-readers so caution  John Dee stands in a firey ruin during his climactic battle with Dream for control of Dream's powerful ruby and the Dream realm itself TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 17, 2022 |
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Jul 17, 2022 04:18
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Jerusalem posted:I was bitterly disappointed in his second Doctor Who episode after the first was so good, so I'm actually glad he (very politely) didn't like it either! He told me that the scene with the Cyberman stepping into the water and "upgrading" so the others could walk in water too was actually meant to be cybermen going in the water, dying, and then eventually a bridge of CYBERMAN CORPSES would allow the others to cross and get into the castle. HOLY gently caress what could have been.
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Jul 18, 2022 02:45
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For SDCC, Den of Geek just dropped a new issue of their magazine and Sandman gets the cover spot with what amounts to a theatrical poster for the show. It features the first real look at Despair who seems to be quite the departure from the comic book version (probably to avoid full frontal nudity, tbh) Also, J.H. Williams who did the art for the prequel Sandman: Overture did a piece for the magazine featuring both his version of Dream from Overture as well as his take on Tom Sturridge's Dream, which is super cool. 
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Jul 21, 2022 03:04
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Looks like they are really beefing up The Corinthian to be THE big bad of the show and I am okay with that because Boyd Holbrook looks to be just scary as hell in the role. That trailer is WAY more impressive than the last one. Holy poo poo. TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 24, 2022 |
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Jul 24, 2022 00:49
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muscles like this! posted:It'll be interesting to see if they keep the original format of the second volume where Morpheus mostly takes a backseat until the very end. I think he'll be more involved in it than the comics, from what they were saying at the Geeked Week panel in June, but they also appear to be bringing some stuff from Dolls House forward to kind of give it a season long arc. It'll be interesting how they balance the need to make it a season of television and an adaptation of a very episodic comic
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Jul 24, 2022 01:12
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I am super impressed with the creature effects. Gregory the Gargoyle looks really great, and Matthew and Merv Pumpkin look PERFECT. 
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Jul 24, 2022 03:13
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muscles like this! posted:A fun thing from that Gaiman interview is that he mentions they went through 2000 auditions for Morpheus only to end up back at square one with their literal first choice. And it looks like they were on the money. Sturridge looks perfect. and Gaiman has said that those disappointed by his lack of black eyes with stars in it will see them at certain points in the show.
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Jul 24, 2022 05:16
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Gaiman has said that Delirium has not been cast as they are waiting to see if they get the green light for season 2 which would introduce her in the first episode. Same with Destiny (although in the comics he does briefly appear before Season of Mists with no dialog, and technically is the only Endless Gaiman didn't create for the series)
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Jul 24, 2022 20:12
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Joe Chill posted:Looks good but I'm disappointed David Goyer is involved since all his shows are very boring. Honestly, I think he was mostly involved in getting the show picked up, and working on the pilot, and then Allan and Neil looked after the rest, because he doesn't seem to have had much involvement with the show overall outside of producing
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Jul 24, 2022 23:10
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muscles like this! posted:In all likelihood it is one of those producer barnacles where he had something to do with it at one point but not any more. He did help write the first episode, I believe. And he was responsible for going "Hey this shouldn't be a movie, can we take to TV" after the 2013 film fizzled out. So he's basically responsible for it happening, helped get it started and then stepped back, I think.
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Jul 25, 2022 01:09
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Good lord, the Death one made me emotional. That scene is almost word for word. and the Lucifer one is just really fun, Gwendoline seems to be relishing the chance to be a dick to Morpheus.
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Jul 25, 2022 23:25
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Knowing that they based the earlier Lucifer off David Bowie, I always read it that way and Christie seems to have honed in on that at least in terms of how she is holding herself.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:25
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Later on Gaiman is much better at doing lighthearted stuff to balance out the darker stuff. In Brief Lives Dream having to put up with Delirium is hilarious, which helps balance the darker parts like a guy getting crushed by a building or a goddess posing as a stripper melting the entire strip club's faces off...literally Oh look new page, how about new content? They released a new video that is a mixture of new footage as well as Cast and Crew talking about the show. Some things it shows in pretty good detail are The House of Mystery and the House of Secrets, The Corinthian advising Roderick Burgess (which is new to the show), and shots of characters from The Dolls House including Barbie and her fantasy friend Martin Tenbones, as well as Lyta and Hector Hall in the Dream Dome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fyja48qK2g TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 02:06
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Alhazred posted:He literally just says that he doesn't want to die and Death happens to hear it and says "okay." She is obviously okay with it and down with it, but what seals the deal is when Dream says "it could be interesting" and that's the closest thing he's probably ever said to "Let's have some fun" so she almost certainly did it because she knew it would bring enjoyment to him.
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Jul 27, 2022 20:32
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Jedit posted:I expect that Dream will have been imprisoned for slightly less than 100 years and the capture happened just after his last meeting with Hob. I'm more concerned about the passing of 30 years since the writing affecting them winding up in the tavern at the right time for Dream to make his bargain with Shakespeare, but that’s a matter for S2 should we get it. Neil has said that He is captured at the same time that he is in the comics, but he doesn't get out until 2022. He has said the show will show how that changes things (which is apparently not much) with the Hob story being one of them. The word is that in the 80s Hob Meeting, Death meets him instead, but that's not confirmed
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Jul 28, 2022 01:50
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My Lovely Horse posted:Guardian did an interview with Neil: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/30/neil-gaiman-sandman-netflix-interview I love him talking about dealing with trolls who clearly haven't read the comics (or severely misunderstood them if they did read them) bitching about Desire being Non-Binary. Like they didn't use that term in the late 80s the way we do now, but that was always the clear intention of the comic, even if the phrases used then are a little clunky now (like when they refer to Desire as It) It is actually remarkable how ahead of the times Gaiman was in talking about some of these things, which means the show has to change very little to be relevant today.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:12
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precision posted:are there seriously people who weren't aware that Desire was supposed to not entirely male or female Chuds on twitter try to tell Neil Gaiman that he should be ashamed for letting Sandman go "woke" because of Desire and some of the casting choices like Kirby as Death, Christie as Lucifer, and gender-swapping John Constantine with Jenna Coleman. And he shuts them down beautifully because he's nice while doing it. Ever the polite British author, even when dunking on trolls.
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Jul 30, 2022 21:29
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I have a feeling they are either lying about being a fan and are just being mad at "wokeism" for the sake of being mad...that or they just skipped A Game of You, which is a crime in itself since A Game of You is fantastic. Darko posted:It's been fantastic. "I just wish Death was more accurate because of her....uh...missing tattoo, yeah!" Neil: "she doesn't get that for a few issues after this scene." Exactly. Like I get being a little disappointed that a character doesn't look exactly like what you imagined, but so far it looks as if the cast are nailing their performances. I admit I'm a little sad we won't get disheveled down on his luck John Constantine, but the rights issues alone make that a nightmare, so I'm perfectly happy with Johanna, who seems to be doing very well for herself according to the trailers
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Jul 30, 2022 22:02
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My Lovely Horse posted:Even in one of the first issues of the comic itself within a few issues we see Dream as a black man through the eyes of Nada. Which actually, since in shows and movies a character's identity is so closely tied to the actor's, I do wonder if they'll keep that. He does take on the for of Kai'ckul when he meets Nada in Hell (and I think they may do a trunkated adaptation of Tales from the Sand as a flashback rather than a story being told)  achillesforever6 posted:Yeah I'm getting to it in the audiobook where apparently they've made changes to it to make it less problematic since the source material hasn't aged well in 25 years, but also they aren't getting to that til season 2. They do a pretty good job adapting and updating things in A Game of You in the audobook. Thessaly no longer says that Wanda can't go with them because she's "a man" and they have better use of pronouns and such. George is still a transphobic rear end in a top hat but he's meant to be villainous in his opinion
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Jul 30, 2022 23:47
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Unkempt posted:
Goddamn it Karen, keep your son under control.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:28
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Argue posted:So what I'm hearing is, the visual gimmick for this show's version of Death should be that she's always decked out in anime merch Jill Thompson already did this 
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Jul 31, 2022 06:57
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For anyone into ASMR-style things, they just released an official podcast called Sandman: Dreamcast which features the show's cast reprising their roles taking you on a tour through various locations such as the Dreaming itself, Lucienne's Library, and The Threshold of Desire. Pretty neat and I believe it includes music from the show for those fans of orchestral scores like myself. It's on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. (It also has the first "listen" at Cain and Abel so I geeked out)
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Aug 2, 2022 15:46
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AFewBricksShy posted:Neil Gaiman is on the most recent WTF With Marc Maron podcast. I haven't listened to it yet but he usually does a pretty decent interview. It's a good interview. He's a lot more candid than he usually is on traditional junket stuff or even his twitter.
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Aug 2, 2022 18:41
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So, uh, I just watched the first episode and it is really loving good. It's going to make waiting til Friday even worse though. (Netflix sent me a screener since I won a spot at the virtual premiere)
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Aug 3, 2022 20:38
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My Lovely Horse posted:Fair enough, and I don't have a lot of subscriptions so Netflix is what I know. Still though, I feel like there's a cultural expectation for people to binge when available. But I also realized it doesn't matter much here cause it's Sandman and I know how it goes and I can do an episode a day and talk about it online without that apprehension towards accidentally catching spoilers. The first episode has some minor changes that feel like they were done to make it work more as a cohesive television show, setting up characters that will be important later, but it was overall fairly faithful.
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Aug 4, 2022 18:12
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Jedit posted:Maybe, but I doubt it. Gaiman didn't originally intend to write most of the side stories; around what became the midpoint of the series he laid out his complete plan and it ran to 60 issues rather than the 75 we got. I think what we'll get is the main plot in at most four seasons, with nearly all the side stories jettisoned. I think a large chunk of them will be, but Gaiman has said that he feels that he wants to do some of the bigger side stories like Midsummer Night's Dream, Dream of a Thousand Cats, Orpheus (which is important), and a few others. I think ALL of World's End gets ditched.
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Aug 5, 2022 03:37
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24 Hours and Sound of her Wings are a one-two punch of some goddamn great television. I knew what was going to happen and I still squirmed a bunch during 24 Hours. Poor Bette. Every single cast member is giving this their all, but David Thewlis is just loving phenomenal as John Dee. Holy poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2022 20:35
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I still have the last two episodes left, but they really are shifting things around for Dolls House. I really like them making Lyta more of a character and seperating her and Hector from their superhero counterparts in the comics feels smart, and having Jed be the superhero is lovely. I understand them ditching Brute and Glob because they are DC characters and obscure ones at that, and I think the new Nightmare they wrote actually helps show how out of touch Morpheus can be, even after his journey to regain his tools. All in all, the changes they are making feel perfectly fitting for the story and I think help make it a more cohesive television story. Loving the whole thing so far.
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Aug 6, 2022 03:48
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My Lovely Horse posted:Episode 2. I can't help but feel Cain and Abel are lacking something. The script doesn't give Chaudhry and Bhaskar quite enough time to really breathe in their roles, and that's a shame because they are very, very good in what we do get to see. But the show seems to be more interested in hitting the major bullet points from their comic dialogue, then moving on as fast as possible, and trying to do an emotional gutpunch with characters that are barely established. They do nail it, though, shame they're not the focus of an entire episode. I mean their bit is (with the exception of the major change) essentially the same amount of screen time as in the comics being adapted. I do hope we get to see them in Season of Mists showing how the literal sausage is made
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Aug 6, 2022 20:16
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theblackw0lf posted:#1 in the US. Not sure of the rest of the world. it's currently #1 in 80 countries according to Netflix's metrics. Safe to say it's doing pretty alright and will likely get Season 2
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Aug 6, 2022 20:58
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