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Orange Devil posted:My biggest question is "why Byzantium?" because it is a hard start and makes it fun to retake land
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Mar 28, 2024 23:26
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:It's sort of funny, because without Islam, all of the same animus would be directed at Coptic, Nestorian and Syriac Christians "for some reason". lol that the portuguese landed at goa and nearly immediately started persecuting local christians.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:27
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Tankbuster posted:lol that the portuguese landed at goa and nearly immediately started persecuting local christians. Lol yeah, portugese: not even once
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Mar 28, 2024 23:32
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its insane local privileges given to the nazarene christians when iberia was half ruled by muslims were revoked by papal decree outright and led to rebellion. Just an entirely dumb loving people.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:42
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hosed up that warhammer fantasy didn’t have Byzantines have them embody every medieval orientalist stereotype about the decadent Greek with coked up cataphracts charging out of perfumed silk slaaneshi tents while palace eunuchs grovel at the feet of the gold encrusted emperors and secretly worship tzeentch
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Mar 28, 2024 23:44
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they just put the entirety of the balkans as the border princes. Dogs of war DLC when?
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Mar 28, 2024 23:48
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Didn't the Warhammer armies project that added Estalia and Tilea add not-Byzantium?
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Mar 28, 2024 23:58
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Didn't the Warhammer armies project that added Estalia and Tilea add not-Byzantium? don’t think so, I think there’s a dwarven city where Constantinople would be that has a Tyrian purple color scheme but no other lore. warhammer fantasy’s setting is a bit late for Byzantium to be there though it’s also a setting where the Holy Roman Empire popped out of the aether fully formed with all the Roman successor state trappings despite there not having been an actual Roman Empire
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Mar 29, 2024 02:58
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FrancisFukyomama posted:don’t think so, I think there’s a dwarven city where Constantinople would be that has a Tyrian purple color scheme but no other lore. warhammer fantasy’s setting is a bit late for Byzantium to be there though it’s also a setting where the Holy Roman Empire popped out of the aether fully formed with all the Roman successor state trappings despite there not having been an actual Roman Empire there was in fact the Reman Empire yes this is stupid but https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Reman_Empire
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Mar 29, 2024 05:31
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as an aside, modders for shogun 2 are making a carlist wars mod where you get the really good gunpowder combat from shogun 2 in a setting where most people have smoothbore muskets.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:28
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Didn't the Warhammer armies project that added Estalia and Tilea add not-Byzantium? Warhammer is early modernity and thus Byzies are gone The Turks are present as Orks
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Mar 29, 2024 13:46
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Tankbuster posted:as an aside, modders for shogun 2 are making a carlist wars mod where you get the really good gunpowder combat from shogun 2 in a setting where most people have smoothbore muskets. Was Shogun 2 before or after Napoleon? I wish CA would do another gunpowder game but I'm afraid they're addicted to the money and audience of Warhammer and it's going to suck (if it ever gets made).
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Mar 29, 2024 13:52
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shogun 2 was after napoleon and fall of the samurai showed off the boshin war. One of the funnier aspects of modding in that game was people fixing CA's "incompetence" by adding things like horse drawn artillery from the napoleonic era despite the game taking place in the middle of the 19th century. Wow I am sure the domains that were buying modern artillery like armstrong guns would use old rear end cannons too. Meanwhile you can do things like dismount your carbine cavalry for fun and use them to seize strategic objectives like mounted infantry. Tankbuster has issued a correction as of 14:16 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 13:56
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thinking about green qara qoyunlu
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Mar 30, 2024 05:13
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closing in on 1900 in a Victoria 3 game, and one of the things that sticks out like a sore thumb (besides the Dengist Haiti effect, which I've noticed) is that the game inverts the logic of colonialism when you seize a new colony, it probably doesn't have a lot of population, so if you need the state to start producing lots of Sulfur or Lead that you previously lacked, you want to maximize productivity with as few workers as possible so you build a new Lead Mine, and you immediately adopt all of the modernizing practices: Diesel Pumps, Dynamite, and Steam Donkeys you also want to use Rail Transportation over Road Carts, since that's another 1,000 fewer Laborers you'll need, so you build a railroad in the province of course, all of these require Clerks and Engineers and Machinists, so you also want to build a University so that the uneducated POPs have a better chance of promoting into the skilled trades you also don't want those POPs to be overspending on Services, so you upgrade the Urban Center to have Electric Streetlights, but then that means requiring Electricity, so you also build a Power Plant in the state so it's not just Dengist Haiti, it's also Belt-and-Road where you're investing a ton into developing the infrastructure
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Mar 30, 2024 09:23
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the next patch is changing the mechanics of how wealth is generated/extracted so we can have the classic colonialism.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:56
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inadvertently proving that communism is the optimal economic system is a time-honored vicky tradition tho
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Mar 30, 2024 10:23
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what vicky 3 does right now is developmentalism.
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Mar 30, 2024 10:33
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It’s just loving incredible that they either didn’t notice or didn’t care that this was the outcome of the game systems they were building during testing. Just simulating the dynamics of the period completely rear end-backwards and then being really proud of it. I still remember the idiot goons in this thread defending the simulation or trying to claim it was just because I had a skill issue when I pointed all this poo poo out right after release.
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Mar 30, 2024 12:26
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Cerebral Bore posted:inadvertently proving that communism is the optimal economic system is a time-honored vicky tradition tho the entire economics model of vicky 2 was designed by a scottish thatcherite that left the company shortly after release and got hired back after about 3 years because his startup failed, but he designed the economics model to specifically benefit laissez faire economics and wound up just never having the time to test how it would work in the game because he was planning on leaving the company and it turned out he had accidentally made it so that the more communist you were, the better
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Mar 30, 2024 13:26
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it isnt really surprising that the most design- and computation-simple way to ensure that the world industrializes is to make it so that increasing orders of industrial development are always best for everybody everywhere. i'm doubtful that the ownership changes alone will be enough to introduce class conflict to victoria 3, they would really need something like pops generate limited hours per week to spend on doing things and have their SoL decrease when expending hours on work. as long as going to work isnt destructive to the worker's very being, then private ownership overhauls will just invent new ways for special individuals to add their unique arcana to the global anarcho-cooperative market
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Mar 30, 2024 13:31
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Orange Devil posted:It’s just loving incredible that they either didn’t notice or didn’t care that this was the outcome of the game systems they were building during testing. communication skill issue
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Mar 30, 2024 13:50
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fermun posted:i love that story what I've heard of V3's design is that the economic model resting on the Construction Sector concept was based on a reaction to Laissez Faire economics in V2: that you always had to let the player have some control over economic development, because it was supposedly too powerful to have an economic mode that would run on auto-pilot my take is: LF in V2 was not good. You couldn't control what factories your Capitalists would build, and you couldn't control what they expanded or closed-down, and you couldn't subsidize any factories. It wasn't very powerful at all, because even though it ran hands-off, the actual output of the auto-pilot was often less-than-ideal. That may well be a realistic depiction of what economic development is like under LF, from the perspective of a state bureaucrat or a civic-minded head-of-state, but it's not something that you would need to nerf. The real game was in either State Capitalism or full Command Economy; the latter requires the player do everything themselves, but once you have a sufficiently powerful economy you can just shift-ctrl-click all your factories for mass-expansion anyway so they take that model of State Capitalism in V2, and make it the baseline behavior in V3. No wonder it's so powerful!
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Mar 30, 2024 15:13
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Orange Devil posted:It’s just loving incredible that they either didn’t notice or didn’t care that this was the outcome of the game systems they were building during testing. I've heard this is because they are neoliberal swedes. Someone wrote out a long post on the ideology of the Paradox devs, based on interviews, dev diaries and design choices, but I can't find it. Wiz used to be a prolific poster on the forums, though I don't know if he posted in LF.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:
No I think that was exactly the issue they were trying to fix- capitalist driven investment frequently is dumber than actual capitalists (and in crucially different ways) and even when it works its boring because there was nothing to do. Additionally it was even worse with v2s political model where the liberals manage to get 50.1% of the vote and suddenly you can't touch the economy for four years. And I don't think most of v3s problems stem from the player having too much control over the economy. Unfortunately I think it's biggest issue is that the AI is garbage and thus you're basically forced into autarky by the midgame- foreign investment will help this at least so you won't have to directly conquer oil fields every game but it still messes with how the global economy is supposed to work stumblebum posted:it isnt really surprising that the most design- and computation-simple way to ensure that the world industrializes is to make it so that increasing orders of industrial development are always best for everybody everywhere. i'm doubtful that the ownership changes alone will be enough to introduce class conflict to victoria 3, they would really need something like pops generate limited hours per week to spend on doing things and have their SoL decrease when expending hours on work. as long as going to work isnt destructive to the worker's very being, then private ownership overhauls will just invent new ways for special individuals to add their unique arcana to the global anarcho-cooperative market Exactly yeah- it's a game that's frankly a little too ambitious for its own good and they had to take a bunch of shortcuts to get it out the door. I think it'd be interesting to make a game that's a much more abstract take on the period like the old Imperialism games, but Paradox's whole brand is maximalism (a common problem among computer strategy games imo)
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Mar 30, 2024 17:23
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Imperialism, both I and II were both better games and better simulations. Which is loving hilarious. Developers and gamers really need to learn that a lot of the time, less is more. But no lets make Terra Invicta instead lmao
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Mar 30, 2024 17:29
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KomradeX posted:Even the first one is much more a puzzle than fighting it out because you can finish some missions very quickly by putting yourself in very precarious tactical situations but the mission ends as soon as you complete the objective so it doesn't matter, and my major problem in wargames is I can be overly cautious Busy trying to shore up my front to take on more enemies instead, of sending one scout to the machine house for the Vasel Bridge mission. Orange Devil posted:It’s just loving incredible that they either didn’t notice or didn’t care that this was the outcome of the game systems they were building during testing. Soooo… I should get the communism simulator?
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Mar 30, 2024 17:35
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Orange Devil posted:Imperialism, both I and II were both better games and better simulations. Which is loving hilarious. Aw man, but the Netflix Three Body Problem show made me wanna go back to Terra Invicta and see if it was better.
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Mar 30, 2024 17:38
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Orange Devil posted:Imperialism, both I and II were both better games and better simulations. Which is loving hilarious. Absolutely- it's unfortunately not really Paradox's model, and they do get some good mileage out of it, but I really wish games would think harder about when to abstract stuff and/or make it easier for humans to understand. I was going to praise Unity of Command for this but I just got stuck in a scenario where it forgot to tell me I needed bridging equipment and now I'm mad at it
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Mar 30, 2024 17:41
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:Soooo… I should get the communism simulator? Spend all your money, go nuts.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:24
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it's now August 1899 in my Philippines game of Victoria 3, and I think we've just passed a critical point. I wanted to implement Central Planning, but it requires that you shift to either Autocracy, Oligarchy, or a One-Party State, and when I chose to implement the third, it set off a revolutionary progress bar with the middle class wanting to fight to keep Universal Suffrage. It came down literally to the wire with the revolution meter at 95% before One-Party State was finally passed and the crisis was defused, but if it took a couple weeks longer or one of the decisions added 5% revolt chance instead of subtracted from it, I would have had a civil war that split the country right down the middle. [the Catholic Church thankfully was a non-factor, its power having been broken in the 1860s after a contentious passing of State Atheism] That having been done, I moved on Central Planning, and for however much we talk about the baseline Construction Sector model being powerful, the Central Planning mode is even better: all the profits flow back right into the government treasury, so the budget surplus went up by a full two orders of magnitude. I could probably hit the subsidize button on everything and not even flinch. And you're going to need all that cash, because now we're also entering the part of the tech tree where we're transitioning from Coal to Oil, and most production methods are needing Electricity, and POPs are demanding Telephones, and Automobiles are now a potential transportation option, so there's a ton of power plants and oil rigs and new motor industries buildings that need to be built. Politically, my next goal will be to shift to a Council Republic to promote the power of the Trade Unions even further, and then from there implement Collectivized Agriculture to complete the transition to communism, but it's going to require a showdown with the Petit Bourgeoisie first.
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Mar 31, 2024 06:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's now August 1899 in my Philippines game of Victoria 3, and I think we've just passed a critical point. What's your current year and population, I want to compare it to the historical population.
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Mar 31, 2024 06:56
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I just remembered Victoria 3 devs and fans describing the gameplay as "tend your garden" which is a really funny way to say the international\map layer gameplay is trash
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Mar 31, 2024 08:53
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Orange Devil posted:Imperialism, both I and II were both better games and better simulations. Which is loving hilarious. Terra Invicta and Vicky 3 are both good u dumbass
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Mar 31, 2024 09:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's now August 1899 in my Philippines game of Victoria 3, and I think we've just passed a critical point. Ugh... cringe lib swede devs have once again failed to make a literal 1:1 simulation of the most complicated social forces on earth thats playable on a personal computer... to the wall with fail king wiz *fires up classic but insanely simple 30 year old 4x in dosbox for tge millionth time in my life*
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Mar 31, 2024 09:42
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If it was either interesting or a struggle it'd be a fun game. Unfortunately it is neither.
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Mar 31, 2024 12:54
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BearsBearsBears posted:What's your current year and population, I want to compare it to the historical population. it's August 1899, and my reported population is 10.4 million people however, I conquered Johore in the Malayan peninsula; and two states in Borneo, and two states in New Guinea, which adds about 1.593 million people that wouldn't have otherwise been in historical Philippines. at the same time, I did not completely conquer Sulu and Mindanao, which are still considered neighboring states, and that's about 476k people I should have all told, I estimate that any comparison against history would have to be against 9.283 million
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Mar 31, 2024 13:07
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pinoy power.
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Mar 31, 2024 15:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's August 1899, and my reported population is 10.4 million people The historical pop would be 6.4 million so you're at about 50% more.
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Mar 31, 2024 15:37
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yeah presumably the US failed at expanding across the pacific.
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Mar 31, 2024 16:03
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