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Supremacy was a cool enough looking boardgame but my friends and I were too inebriated to play correctly the one time we busted it out. I still like the idea of nuclear winter causing an automatic game over
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Jul 14, 2022 00:02
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John Charity Spring posted:Humankind sucks and is boring and weirdly racist, but I hear good things about Old World even from people who have otherwise gone off Civ games Ha, what did they do to outdo the inherent racial phrenology of the Civ genre?
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Jul 14, 2022 00:05
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Danann posted:
Patch Zero Victoria 3 is going to be transcendent.
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Jul 14, 2022 00:07
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ive never tried this Victoria 2 game i saw mentioned above can i do some sick espionage/asymmetrical warfare? my idea of "fun" was savespotting in Rome: Total War and seeing if I could keep Egypt irrelevant by constantly spreading the plague with my agents and reloading on <10% probability assassinations until they were successful. Alexandria to Tarsus was basically a string of sub-1000 population plague ridden poo poo holes with no infrastructure, the faction leader and faction heir just aimlessly wandering around present-day Iraq.
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Jul 14, 2022 00:12
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repeatedly tried to enjoy civ 6 but the sheer quantity of end of history lib poo poo in it just ruined it for me.
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Jul 14, 2022 00:24
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:would be a shame if the series peaked as early as A Distant Plain, but ADP is really good IMO ADP is probably the best in the series, though I've heard good things about Gandhi and Colonial Twilight. I also have a soft spot for the Caesar in Gaul edition
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Jul 14, 2022 00:26
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20 Blunts posted:ive never tried this Victoria 2 game i saw mentioned above Vicky doesn't really have espionage but there is lots of economic bullshit. I'd honestly recommend just waiting for the sequel, v2 is an extremely interesting game that in a lot of ways just doesn't work right
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Jul 14, 2022 00:27
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Southpaugh posted:repeatedly tried to enjoy civ 6 but the sheer quantity of end of history lib poo poo in it just ruined it for me. 3D was the downfall of civilization
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Jul 14, 2022 00:29
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StashAugustine posted:Vicky doesn't really have espionage but there is lots of economic bullshit. I'd honestly recommend just waiting for the sequel, v2 is an extremely interesting game that in a lot of ways just doesn't work right Is that Vicky 1 designer who wanted the game to showcase the superiority of his market liberalism ideology still around? It was pretty funny how Vicky 1 enforced an ontological purestrain gold standard: new money would only enter the system as gold mines were being worked... 
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Jul 14, 2022 00:44
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mawarannahr posted:3D was the downfall of civilization I'm willing to believe that but I've got a million hours in 3/4/5 and none of them suck rear end as hard as 6.
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Jul 14, 2022 00:47
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mawarannahr posted:3D was the downfall of civilization civ 3 + the expansions were pretty good though
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Jul 14, 2022 01:15
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Civ 3 had a bunch of weird design issues but I liked the simplicity. Civ 4 is easily the best designed one in the series. 5 has some cool new ideas but also just isn't very interesting to play. From what I heard of 6 it basically just doubled down on the bad ideas of 5
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Jul 14, 2022 01:17
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AnimeIsTrash posted:civ 3 + the expansions were pretty good though civ 3 was 2d… smac was sort of 3D but it was based on voxels and not failed by polygons.
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Jul 14, 2022 01:20
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civ 6 is sadly not very good, i love civ games but it's hard to enjoy. the climate change stuff is kinda cool but you can get that in alpha centauri too.
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Jul 14, 2022 01:36
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 Anyone ever play attack vector tactical? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6767/attack-vector-tactical
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Jul 14, 2022 01:41
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Raskolnikov38 posted:wargame red dragon is p fun, the 2nd korean war campaign is hilarious Can't play as the North Koreans. Boy I sure love destroying T-34 85s with my K1 mbts.
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Jul 14, 2022 01:50
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Tankbuster posted:Can't play as the North Koreans. Boy I sure love destroying T-34 85s with my K1 mbts. you might be thinking of the first campaign which is extremely similar. 2nd korean war has you overthrow communism in the DPRK, PRC, and USSR in 20 turns of combat on the korean pennisula lmao but everybody has end tier tanks in it
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Jul 14, 2022 01:56
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Nah pretty sure the North Korean Deck has reservist t-34s upgunned in it.
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Jul 14, 2022 02:04
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Is that Vicky 1 designer who wanted the game to showcase the superiority of his market liberalism ideology still around? the best (but most tedious) governments in vicky 1 are socialist or communist, depending on country and military affinity. precious metal is a resource for upgrading units but iunno if it has a direct result on money supply compared to other resources i've put more hours into it than any paradox game by far and i have no idea why
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Jul 14, 2022 02:18
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i say swears online posted:the best (but most tedious) governments in vicky 1 are socialist or communist, depending on country and military affinity. precious metal is a resource for upgrading units but iunno if it has a direct result on money supply compared to other resources same for vicky2. you won't get a better economy going than under communism but the cost is your sanity and soul
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Jul 14, 2022 02:36
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gmts path of glory is fun but you gotta ease folks into it. maybe a little twilight struggle to get them to stop fearing cardboard tokens
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Jul 14, 2022 02:45
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Twilight Struggle rocks (despite being a little lib brained), it's an excellent intro to modern wargaming
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Jul 14, 2022 03:02
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If you were to pick up a submarine study sim, is Silent Hunter III w GWX, Silent Hunter 4 w either Operation Monsun Dark Waters or Knights of Sea Depths II, Silent Hunter 5 with Wolves of Steel or UBOAT the better bet? I need something that takes a lot of mental bandwidth to blow off steam, so as long as there’s documentation they can be as rivet counting as possible, I just have no idea which ones have good interfaces and as few bugs as possible.
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Jul 14, 2022 03:16
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Patch Zero Victoria 3 is going to be transcendent. i hope yellow prussia returns
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Jul 14, 2022 03:23
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As a kid I played PTO , pacific theater of operations , by Koel. I played both 1 and 2 for the super Nintendo. It was my first experience with how lovely A.I. is. I'd always play as Japan since they had a resource disadvantage, and then let USA take the Pacific before counterattacking just to have some kind of a challenge. I guess it's barely a strategy game compared to what we have now, but I remember loving it.
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Jul 14, 2022 04:29
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mawarannahr posted:3D was the downfall of civilization If you mean the move from tiles to hexes, I agree For years I was unaware that you can tilt the map in 4 so the tiles are viewed diagonally like in 2 and 3
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Jul 14, 2022 04:36
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StashAugustine posted:Civ 3 had a bunch of weird design issues but I liked the simplicity. Civ 4 is easily the best designed one in the series. 5 has some cool new ideas but also just isn't very interesting to play. From what I heard of 6 it basically just doubled down on the bad ideas of 5  The only improvements 5 made over 4 was the switch to hexes (seen several attempts to hack 4s engine into a hexagonal system by shifting cell rows, but don't think any ever worked) and making resources only support a limited amount of units so you actually had resource wars.
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Jul 14, 2022 09:28
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Ha, what did they do to outdo the inherent racial phrenology of the Civ genre? it's got basically the same thing with inherent racial traits and bonuses but it's even more deterministic about it because of how it limits cultures to particular eras. like you can be the Mayans but when you advance to the next era you have to stop being them and instead choose to be some Europeans or whatever (or you can stay as the Mayans and be at a disadvantage because you don't get any new units or bonuses). The selection of civs is very funny too, like the contemporary ones are stuff like 'Australians'. This approach avoids Civilization's pitfall of having Americans be an eternal civilisation who existed since the stone age (reminiscent of Boer propaganda about them being the real natives in South Africa) but instead it treats cultures completely disposably and also has this thing about them being 'obsolete' once technology moves on which is just as racist in its own way. All of the marketing for Humankind was about how it was going to be a Civ beater which fixes and modernises all these archaic mechanics and what they did was basically do Endless Legend with a historical veneer and its own racist poo poo involved too. Rubbish
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Jul 14, 2022 09:50
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:gmts path of glory is fun but you gotta ease folks into it. maybe a little twilight struggle to get them to stop fearing cardboard tokens I have Paths of Glory but noone to play it with  Also lol at Twilight Struggle being a thing people can be eased into. Also, play the Decisive Campaign series. They're each very different but each very good.
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Jul 14, 2022 10:36
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For me personally Red Flag Over Paris has dethroned Twilight Struggle as the "babby's first ever wargame" in my collection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkXnFU32Zcs
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Jul 14, 2022 10:53
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Frosted Flake posted:If you were to pick up a submarine study sim, is Silent Hunter III w GWX, Silent Hunter 4 w either Operation Monsun Dark Waters or Knights of Sea Depths II, Silent Hunter 5 with Wolves of Steel or UBOAT the better bet? I'm curious about your opinion on Command: Modern Operations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62JAxH4d8E It seems dope, although I find the interface with 90s Windows dropdown boxes, as well as the complexity rather intimidating.
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Jul 14, 2022 12:24
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John Charity Spring posted:it's got basically the same thing with inherent racial traits and bonuses but it's even more deterministic about it because of how it limits cultures to particular eras. like you can be the Mayans but when you advance to the next era you have to stop being them and instead choose to be some Europeans or whatever (or you can stay as the Mayans and be at a disadvantage because you don't get any new units or bonuses). The selection of civs is very funny too, like the contemporary ones are stuff like 'Australians'. This approach avoids Civilization's pitfall of having Americans be an eternal civilisation who existed since the stone age (reminiscent of Boer propaganda about them being the real natives in South Africa) but instead it treats cultures completely disposably and also has this thing about them being 'obsolete' once technology moves on which is just as racist in its own way. All of the marketing for Humankind was about how it was going to be a Civ beater which fixes and modernises all these archaic mechanics and what they did was basically do Endless Legend with a historical veneer and its own racist poo poo involved too. Rubbish Hmm. Yeah. From what I've seen a bunch of the old Civ mechanics appear to have been replaced with Endless Legend mechanics rather than a proper overhaul. If anyone wants do to a Civ killer I would tell them to keep the scope but throw out all game mechanics. The fundamentals of Civ from the 80s! There's no inherent need to keep any of that stuff around unless it actually serves a purpose, game design has books and poo poo written about it nowadays! Maybe try a different take on world history than "move single units, manage individual towns"... On the topic of "Civ bonuses" from a simpler reformist perspective I always thought the best way to do it was to use the Culture mechanics, specifically the Civ-wide levelling system in 5; if you want your Civ to get combat bonuses you don't get to pick a "martial race", you have to make an active gameplay choice to make your Civ into one. Make Civ choice itself 100% aesthetic (though keep specific AI personalities for different leaders). PoontifexMacksimus has issued a correction as of 12:34 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 12:26
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Wait how is that racist? Its a build a bear civ game and the improved endless legend combat is better than anything in Civ.
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Jul 14, 2022 12:37
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Jul 14, 2022 13:28
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Tankbuster posted:Wait how is that racist? Its a build a bear civ game and the improved endless legend combat is better than anything in Civ. it'd be fine if it was more genericised stuff like "steppe nomad culture" rather than literally "the Mongols" but once you bring actual cultures into your build-a-bear and you start thinking about what these things imply then you get into the weeds of it being weird and gross sometimes. something like Crusader Kings 3 deals with cultures a lot better but then has its own pitfalls around the eugenics poo poo where you can breed Perfect Royals and even get bonuses to inheriting good congenital traits, etc. I think in Humankind's case the racism is just unthinking rather than malicious but it's still there. having a great time being the Zulu, oh no we've become too technologically advanced, time to become the Dutch instead! maybe that's the sort of thing that deserves some examination when you're designing your game they actually realised this with the religion, as Humankind treats religion as a set of archetypes with the serial numbers filed off rather than saying 'this is literally Buddhism and Christianity', but hey
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Jul 14, 2022 13:34
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Created the Union of Planetary Soviets in Stellaris and was immediately set upon by extremely belligerent, bipedal newts who would only briefly stop genociding each other to demand tribute from and raid their neighbors.
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Jul 14, 2022 13:44
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HerraS posted:For me personally Red Flag Over Paris has dethroned Twilight Struggle as the "babby's first ever wargame" in my collection. I've been meaning to get my hands on that, glad to hear it's good. TS is relatively simple but the big drawback to using it as an intro game is that 90% of the game is knowing what events are in the deck
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Jul 14, 2022 13:46
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John Charity Spring posted:Humankind sucks and is boring and weirdly racist, but I hear good things about Old World even from people who have otherwise gone off Civ games Strong recommend Old World. It was made by the lead designer of Civ 4 and it's the most enjoyable 4x I've played since Civ 4. It has a lot of the trappings of Civ 5 but it's good. I think hexes are fine, it's just that Civ has never done a good job getting its AI to deal with hexes well. Old World's AI is good enough. Paradox games are up and down but I really do enjoy CK3. Hoping for the best with Vicky 3. Also if anyone's looking for a bit of a janky but cool game Shadows of Forbidden Gods is a goon-made strategy game where you play as a reawakened ancient evil god. Dreylad has issued a correction as of 13:57 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 13:54
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I'm curious about your opinion on Command: Modern Operations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w62JAxH4d8E It seems dope, although I find the interface with 90s Windows dropdown boxes, as well as the complexity rather intimidating. I’ve used the PE at work and really appreciate it, though the modelling of land systems is a bit weak. I’d like to see more counter battery and ground surveillance radars, for example. PE lets you modify and change database entries, the Canadian government licensed one has our stuff use their classified capabilities, so I guess ships’ radars and ECM suites are different, but I’ve never used that. The only difference I can see is comms jamming. I have the steam edition as well and find it really enjoyable as a modern day Harpoon. As people were saying in the Russia/Ukraine thread, UI is a pain in the rear end like in most of these games. Visual presentation is neat, but I find it so much more readable with tacview. In terms of pick up and play, I had to read the manual and run through the tutorials before I could really get into it. I did a lot of reading to understand some of the concepts and that’s really helped, a copy of Fleet Tactics and Naval Operations, Third Edition went a long way, particularly for understanding sensors and ECM. I enjoy reading the database entries, then looking up systems in Jane’s or export catalogues, but finding out how to actually use these systems in the game is still difficult in some cases. For me some of the larger scenarios are just too much. I’m not a Air Ops O or SWO so trying to even come up with a plan, let alone manage it, is a lot of work, and I lose control in larger scenarios quite a bit. There are some community scenarios that are more my speed, a couple ships, a handful of aircraft, that sort of thing. I often use the scenario editor to copy scenarios and then substitute units, 1:1 or doctrinally appropriate if possible, both for variety and so that I can use nations and systems I’m trying to get proficient with. The best thing about the game for me is the Quick Battles. It’s a clever feature that makes it so much more usable for me. More on them here. I like them so much that I started to learn the HTML UI to make copies that I could modify to include units I want rather than trying to make scenarios from scratch. It’s great, and I highly recommend both stock scenarios and trying to make your own. For example, I took Yankee Station, the US carrier aircraft Quick Mission over Vietnam, changed the target locations to the west coast of Korea and the dates to the Korean War. Then, I researched Task Force 95, missions flown by the RN and RAN, their aircraft and carriers, DPRK defences, and started changing the HTML of a copy of Yankee Station line by line. Eventually I had a great scenario for Sea Furys and other Naval Air Arm aircraft over Korea, expanded it a bit more for Task Force 77 and USMC and USN carriers and aircraft, eventually the Marine Nationale too. I accidentally deleted it during a reinstall and haven’t recreated it, but it’s on my to-do list, if I can get it to a standard I like I’ll post it on the forum and with any luck it might get picked up by someone with more talent to polish it and to the Quick Battle list like Yankee Station was. What I try to do with a massive and intimidating game like this is find a very narrow focus, do a bunch of research and keep at it until I can use that one force well, as close to doctrine as I can. It lets me really understand how sensors, weapons, ECM etc. work by using the same set over and over again. I decided to use the French Navy of the 60’s and 70’s. That meant adding them into Quick Battles and modifying scenarios to substitute them, which makes sense as it’s an overlooked period and force, but through repetition I got a handle of the SH-34G, SA.321G Super Frelon, PB4Y-2B Privateer, F-8E(FN) Crusader , Colbert and Malafon, which I wouldn’t have otherwise used. I figured if I can get the French Navy to fight like the French Navy, switch it out in all of the stock and community scenarios in the 60’s and 70’s I can find, I’ll get a handle on the game. I’m having a lot of fun with it, and that project is also how I learned to edit the HTML files, use the scenario editor, understand the radar and sonar models. If you use the same sonar every single time, in a bunch of different scenarios, you start to really understand how sonar works in the simulator, in my experience. I understand people might get bored of, say the Type 47 ASW Mod, Surcouf Class or Commandant Riviere frigate, but by using them in every scenario where there are surface ships and subs in the 60’s and 70’s, understanding their radar, sonar, ESM and weapons, I feel like I learned a lot more about how the simulator works as well as the concepts, doctrine and limitations. I’d recommend this, but it’s not for everyone and the scenarios that come with the game, DLC or from the community are all great. The side effect for me is that I would never be able to get schools of fish, whales, civilian and neutral shipping to work if I made a scenario from scratch, but I can research the French Navy, have a bunch of templates, delete a side from a scenario and start substituting them in. Other than all that, I think I’ve had more fun at times in Jutland Pro or Cold Waters. I know the visual element isn’t a requirement, and I loved Harpoon, but comparing Tacview to Sea Power isn’t really close. Considering there’s also Rule the Waves, War on the Sea, Task Force Admiral, if I want to have fun and putter around I’ll take up one of those, and if I want to read a chapter of Fleet Tactics and test my understanding I’ll play CMO.
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Jul 14, 2022 16:02
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You also have to compare CMO to it’s predecessors, like John Tiller’s Modern Air Power and Naval Campaigns, both of which border on incomprehensible by modern standards. CMO does everything they do better, and with a more readable and usable interface. CMO doesn’t have Tsushima or Jutland, and probably wouldn’t cover those periods well, but for anything more contemporary it’s a huge step up.
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Jul 14, 2022 16:06
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