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Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
I feel like it used to work like that in CK2 but it led to annoying outcomes where everyone shook hands and went home because someone important died or something unrelated happened.

They should use something like Total War: 3 Kingdoms where when a dude you're fighting becomes a vassal of someone else they show up and ask if you want to keep fighting or if you just want a quick peace.

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Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
It's a little too abstract and simple for something like Vicky 3 but I kind of liked how Ozymandias' power system worked. Great for the quick gameplay it was using. Your military is just a vague abstract force and you bring it to a "point" with armies and navies who push out over time and take territory in places where they're unchallenged or stronger. So the focus is less on just doomstacking armies and more on using money and research to up your tech and logistics.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Yeah, I haven't played a GalCiv after 2 but it feels like in a post-Stellaris world it's just not nearly as special.

The only thing that really stands out in my memory is that I think it might have handled the cultural warfare stuff the best out of a 4X game. I started to do a write up about it when Cultural Victories in Civ 4 came up. Your culture is a little expanding sphere that fights cultural spheres that it runs into and if your culture spreads over another planet they start to identify more with you than their empire. If you want, you can just leave it be and kind of get a firm grip on a weaker empire or abuse neutral/friendly empires and start setting up activism/guerrila training centers in starbases by the planet to push it toward rebellion. Then the only answer is that the empire either has to go to war with you (which will piss off any planets that like your culture and might start a rebellion anyway) or just try to be more entertaining and hang on.

It felt neat and about the best way you could handle a Cultural Victory idea, even if it turned into way too cheesy of a tactic against AI.

It also reminds me of what felt like the big GalCiv issue. 2 had a really neat idea where you or any other civilization might encounter an ancient civilization relic site that triggers the Peacekeeper System. This spawns a bunch of end-game level neutral ships that are dedicated to galactic peacekeeping. Which means that if any of your military ships wander out of your cultural area of influence they're at risk of getting one-shotted. You either have to accept full austerity and build up a military that can resist the peacekeepers or settle in for an economic or cultural game, or play cat and mouse around the patrols. If you're peaceful then you can also hide behind the patrols. It's a really cool idea...except it triggered really often and was broken as hell. If I remember right, your ships firing back at the peacekeepers when attacked flipped them from a special neutral faction to being at war with you, which meant that they'd randomly blow up your trade and research ships and go into your territory to just kill everything. I don't know that they ever bothered to fix it, at least back when I was playing it when it first came out :).

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Maximo Roboto posted:

Stellaris isn't turn-based though?

Just lol if you're not playing it at max speed with constant frantic pausing.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Slavvy posted:

How do you ethically source human bones for dice? Are there that many d&d for love nerds out there donating their corpses to consumerism?

I mean, there's probably at least one. If they can get a big-boned one you could probably really stretch it out.

Sincerely, I assume you can buy them on the unethical but maybe technically legal gray market/aftermarket thing from people who donate their bodies. Remember the whole controversy where some lady donated her body to science, and "science" turned out to be blowing her body up with an IED to test out some body armor? Because you don't actually get to pick what you go to. Some plastic surgery college just not giving a gently caress and selling a pile of bones to a dice maker sounds like something that could happen.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

John Charity Spring posted:

the sea combat in those games is simultaneously janky and the best real-time portrayal I've seen in a game lol. it becomes uncontrollable once you have more than like 4 ships to babysit though

Also probably one of the better portrayals for including things like "lol, you failed a dice roll so this cannonball hit your powder store and one-shot killed your big ship." Empire's a very neat, incredibly janky game that goes on sale a lot and is easily worth the few bucks.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

KirbyKhan posted:

When City Of Gangsters released I read through the Game City builder thread and they followed the same journey as you. Initially impressed, the busy work and lack of scaling makes the game a slog. They used to complain that the cops basically take everything at multiple points and you gotta start from scratch a few times.

It's actually kind of bad in the other direction, since I felt like cops were kind of a perfect example of the problems with the game. There are neat systems that just kind of don't matter or don't work well in actual practice. Going to be way more of nerd :goonsay: post than I wanted, but I've been playing it lately. I just wish we could get a good gangster game again. It shouldn't be that hard.

Cop stuff works by a heat system. Buying and selling booze or booze making materials generates heat, with selling doing a lot more obviously. Although other general crimes can also spike heat. A murder always spikes it and pulls a cop over in the next few turns for example. But if you have a few favorite stores you sell to regularly then they're going to start getting shakedowns every few weeks. Although some gangsters can have personality traits like Short or Nervous that make them generate less heat. You can also give your delivery drivers skills through experience that make them generate less heat.

If the cops shakedown a corner they hang out there for a week or two. This blocks you from doing most business with anyone on that corner until they leave, which can potentially really screw things up. And if you're unlucky enough to have someone hanging out on that corner during the shakedown they get picked up and have all their stuff, legal and illegal, taken by dirty cops. Later in the game I guess they actually get arrested but I haven't messed around much in the true late game.

So there's this whole police system that helps define the early game as this cat and mouse thing. You're supposed to be careful and use tools to track the heat you're generating and try to spread it around. You can hire people and use skills to make it easier. You have to pay attention to where your guys end their turns and stick to cooler areas to keep booze shipments from getting seized because losing a whole shipment or even just your cash and your weapons can effectively be a game over. And then...you pay the cops about $300 (about half of a booze production run) and they just completely ignore you from that point on :shrug:. You have to repay them every 250 days. Also you can get free weapons from them after bribing them and can use them to send the FBI on your rivals. The whole heat system is basically irrelevant as far as I can tell unless it changes up a lot in the late game. But I had no problem just murdering like 6 or 8 people openly with no consequences. Typically it's what you take care of after you get your first production system going. You usually have to spend a few turns buttering them up with compliments or burn a favor to make them trust you unless you get lucky with them having a matching personality and ethnicity...but yeah. That's the end of that.

There's a little "emergent" gameplay where the law system can give you a Police Ethics board that makes the bribe about $500 which is a tougher ask at the start of the game. Bribing later cops also costs a little more and you have to bribe each precinct. Sometimes you start out on the border of two precincts which makes things harder because bribing 2 cops is expensive early game. One time I had my guys beat up a hooligan who was giving us trouble and it turned out they were the local patrol captain's niece and that meant he loving hated me and wouldn't take a bribe. Except there was no other way to handle it other than wait it out.

So yeah...It's just a little weird. There are a lot of system like that where systems just don't end up mattering much or don't work. Other criminal outfits are just kind of vague speedbumps. I guess they can suck in the early game, but you basically just out muscle them and beat them back. Protection rackets basically don't matter as an actual money maker. They're just a convenience thing to keep you from having to give money to fronts that aren't raising your reputation. The trade route system is neat in how granular it gets but it's a gigantic pain in the rear end to use once you have a larger empire or just know a lot of people.

And like Gradenko said, the early spawn is somewhat random. Cities have a rough layout of residential, commercial and industrial with some constants. Your spawn is picked by what ethnicity you pick for the seed. It's supposed to push you to adapt a little, but in practice it just means that you sometimes have to save scum. I had a hell of a time getting a workable Atlantic City start. I had one decent one but it put me in an industrial district and it sucked for casinos, which is the whole gimmick of the map. Then I got about 4 or 5 starts where it just literally gave me nowhere to buy materials or sell booze. There's a mission that pops in the early game if you get a bad spawn that lets you switch out your starting booze for a different starter, but that didn't help because I somehow had multiple starts without any market for any of the starter boozes.

I still kind of like the game and it's definitely worth getting the free version. I also think that the DLC "content" is usually integrated freely. Paying just adds a map that uses the content well (Atlantic City lets you start casinos sooner, Philadelphia gives you an experienced captain so you actually get to see the schemes without playing for hours). It's neat if you're on its vibe and can stop your brain from trying to min max it. That's one of the biggest tips I think I'd offer. A lot of complaints from the forum boiled down to "I broke this game over my knee and now I'm not having fun pushing the pieces around." It's not that hard unless you just get hosed by cop seizures early game or an AI just bullying you early game. Once you have a starter booze production chain going you're never really going to lose. The reason that getting a 25th building costs $1 million is that you're not supposed to be buying that many. At that point you're supposed to be extorting them from gamblers or the city council, since you're basically just running up the score at that point. One guy mentioned how miserable it was just chasing down dozens of gamblers who owed him money each week and it turned out that he had 9 full size casinos. I think the game gives you an achievement for managing to get 3.

There's also a guy on the Steam forums doing mod work to add in other goods (called After Prohibition because he's adding in weed grow ops, opium, gun trading, etc.). Haven't tried them yet so no idea how he's doing but people in the forum seem happy. He's also trying to fix up the AI, reduce the ridiculous inflation of building costs and fronts as the game goes on and I think he added something that actually made protection rackets viable as a business option.

It's a shame since the special DLC for different country DLCs should have done something similar. The Italian mob DLC gives a start and winning goals that push for way more aggressive early play that focuses on killing and robbing hooligans. A neat change. And then the rest are just flavor. Sometimes dumb flavor. The English DLC gives them the ability to make gray market cigarettes which is really cool. Cigarettes are a cheap product that's great for befriending shop owners who don't trust you enough to buy booze and it sounds like a great way to mix up the early game...which is why they locked the cigarette facility to the mid to late game long after you'd probably care :).

Parakeet vs. Phone has issued a correction as of 19:22 on Feb 7, 2023

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Mister Bates posted:

yeah they now move the village you bombed towards the opposition and ding your Hearts and Minds score, which is basically your 'victory' tracker (if it is above 50% at the end of the scenario you 'win', otherwise your lose)

hilariously, because killing Taliban or local militia forces increases your popular support locally, at release, drone-striking Taliban guys hanging out in or next to a village would actually make the US more popular there!

of course, that the developers (themselves including some Afghanistan veterans) thought 'we gain local support by killing people' made sense at all is itself very telling

Interesting, since Vietnam '65 has the same kind of thing going on. It captures a feeling where you're just sort of holding back the inevitable. Their endgame is slightly less pessimistic because the villages don't necessarily revert back to Vietcong support. You build Hearts and Minds by visiting the village to hand out aid/intimidate them and assert that you're not going to abandon them and I believe you only lose support if Vietcong or proper NVA manage to threaten or reach the village. But the endgame is stuck with the same problems that you're just sort of declaring victory when obviously the lightly trained allies (who you only use because you don't lose domestic support if they get wounded or die) you're leaving behind are going to get hosed up as soon as your artillery isn't there to save them.

Makes for a weird feel in the game.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Chazani posted:

I wouldn't call it a complex system, but due to the way how it works there isn't really a single trick to win everything.

If you start fights where you have lots of positive modifiers, you will pretty much always win. So it comes to knowing those, and that stuff you can find in the manual. Positioning and knowing when to commit are the big things. Blocks of infantry can barely turn, so managing that is the big thing. And having reserves when some part of your line will eventually collapse.

I feel there is enough going on in the game, that it stays interesting. With the DLC's the amount of rosters gets quite high too, so you won't immediately know how to play all sides.

I enjoyed playing around with it so far although I wish it had more structure to it. The random campaigns aren't really grabbing me.

The closest thing to One Weird Trick is just advantage stuff that feels realistic enough. If you can pull off flanking charges or rear charges on an engaged enemy it usually really fucks up their morale, for example. Although light infantry/cavalry don't necessarily trigger morale checks. But the rest is just tactics and playing units against one another. Heavy infantry fucks poo poo up in a melee and certain ones are good at charging, so harass them a bunch with ranged troops and try to hit them with cavalry or more mobile troops before you fight it out with your infantry line. Or force them into a fight on rough terrain.

The big thing I like about it is the messiness of a battle combined with the noted difficulty in manuevering your units. Units pursuing retreating or beaten enemies can throw your whole lovely battle plan into chaos in a way that feels a lot more realistic. In the campaign I opted to fight a larger force on advantageous terrain rather than sacrifice units, and my plan of forcing their heavy infantry onto rough terrain worked...for a while. Then as my soldiers pursued it turned into a brutal slugfest with units getting cut off and hosed up and out of position. Mine and theirs, until I ground it out. All while I desperately tried to save my collapsing right flank. Neat game, especially since I snagged it for free.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
I tried to get into Ultimate General: Gettysburg to see if I wanted to pick up Civil War, but it just feels weird to me. I'm not sure if I'm missing something but the controls just don't feel right, units never seem to quite fight like they should and artillery feels so finicky. Maybe it's just the arcadey UI being a brick wall to me. But when I manage to catch a bunch of artillery out of position, charge them and park some soldiers on top of them only to see them barely tick down, it seems off.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Megamissen posted:

i vaguely remember they imply she is working with the aliens or something

It's in the Alien Hunter DLC thing. It's a weird character thing. She does a bunch of evil stuff that could have really hosed up the planet, but there's a slight indication that she was maybe subverting things that I don't think went anywhere :shrug:. Her whole character is a weird plot thread that doesn't quite fit right.

I guess the sequel was always going to be weird because they never really get into what it was like living in the cities during XCom 2. So it's strange to just acknowledge that all the alien soldiers you were fighting probably had hopes and dreams that didn't involve getting skewered with a sword.

Tropico 2 should have been a lot more fun than it is. I like that they tried to genuinely mix up the gameplay rather than just remake it 5 times like they ended up doing. The pirate island aspect is neat because your economy is almost entirely pirate based. I think you can make a little money smuggling rum, but the economy is based on sending your pirate ship(s) out, loading up with loot and captives and hauling it back to your island. Then you make your money by watching your little pirates wander around and spend all the loot at your restaurants and gambling places...and brothels staffed with captives...which seemed hosed up even when it came out.

Ethical issues with a fully fleshed out slavery system aside, the gameplay problem came down to it being weirdly repetitive and having some really weird decisions. The biggest was that in order to build just about any good buildings you had to get an expert from a nearby colony. Which required a full mission that tied up your ship and required direct expense. So a ton of the game was spent doing things like kidnapping a cook so that you could divine the secret knowledge of a restaurant. Also it was right before they thought of making your island permanent so you wind up building the same stuff and doing mass kidnapping over and over again and it gets really old.

I think the recent Tropico's have been fun, but the camp wears really thin pretty fast and it's weird that they haven't cut out the more racist stuff.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

sirtommygunn posted:

Isn't 4x antithetical to the morality of star trek?

They loved colonizing unoccupied planets and adding in the occupied ones.

The New Horizons mod handled it pretty well, although it's been awhile since I played it. If you're playing true Federation and don't let an offshoot take over, I believe you're set up as one of the civics that can't really declare war for straight conquest without a decent reason. You might be able to do Ideology change wars, I can't remember. Your main expansion is through an event system. You use your regular diplomatic powers and events to befriend minor empires or a decent sized non-Klingon/Romulan empires and use the regular diplomacy system to lock them into an alliance/pact/regular federation and every 2 years you get to do the big Federation congress-thing. You can pick a few different perks if there's no one you want to add or you can choose to start the ascension process for a friendly empire. It takes time and I think a chunk of Unity depending on the number of pops and planets but at the end you get gifted the whole thing.

They'll probably just half-rear end it with the Stellaris vassel or federation system though :sigh:.

I remember the Borg feeling fun if kind of overpowered. But back when I played it the mod was clearly straining under all of Stellaris' systems.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Mister Bates posted:

Tropico 2's utterly bizarre decision to make managing the logistics of a slave economy a core game mechanic, including employing overseers to whip them, guard patrols to keep them from escaping, and generating fear to keep them resigned to their fate...while not only employing them do hard labor but also explicitly employing them in brothels as sex workers, remains a standout low point for the series, a level of absolutely mind-blowing crassness that none of the later games ever managed to stoop to. That said, while the later games at least aren't that horrifying, none of them have ever managed to capture the magic of Tropico 1, and at this point I don't even understand why they are still making them or who is playing them

Also worth noting that 2 also had the kind of weird balance where it's 50% funny/50% serious pirate stuff, incredibly grim if you think about it for more than a second slave management and then also you have an army of skeletons because you can use magic to reincarnate your dead pirates to turn them into haulers that never need to eat or sleep.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Endman posted:

I remember having this game and not understanding it in the slightest

For whatever reason I remember that being a thing among gaming boards and communities. People, myself including, winding up with used copies that may or may not have a manual and just being confused by the whole thing. Partly because it is a whole "political" game that boils down to playing cards and points in rock-paper-scissor games that aren't really connected to one another.

Huge bummer since the concept is great but they just do nothing with it.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Glad FF brought up Fields of Glory since it's kind of an interesting thing. I played around with it the last time it came up in the thread and I think was free to play. It's a pretty neat game because it does model a morale-based battle system and tries to have realistic issues. It really made you think in a different way than most games and once it clicked it felt good.

But it's also a difficult sell. "It's 4 turns into the battle and I'm just trying to wrangle chaos. My undisciplined warriors chased the retreating legion soldiers and now they're on bad terrain and flanked. My cavalry is out of position and needs 3 turns to fully turn. My best unit took some bad spear hits, lost 10% strength and is about to break because they feel helpless. Probably still gonna win it, it's pretty fun." Most people want the Total War style system where they're pulling off brilliant tactics and crushing their enemies with their elite forces. Dealing with stuff like herding bad warriors and actually skirmishing with weak ranged fighters is a different feel.

It's the same problem that I've seen mentioned with fortifications in Total War. You want to ultimately have badass sieges and defenses at your castles and forts. But any remotely reasonable AI would only attack a fort if it has overwhelming force. So you don't get to see your cool fort in action unless they make the AI bad on purpose. I do think going to AI personalities that will do stuff like that is an okay fix but then you're intentionally sacrificing difficulty for fun. Which is fine, but kind of disappointing.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Regarde Aduck posted:

huh, had no idea that existed and by the looks of it no one else did either

Kind of interesting that it took this long for someone to do Bomber Crew/Space Crew but with a more grounded look and also interesting that they're just stealing the "Crew" naming convention. Concept sounds great if they can make the campaign and fighting feel better than the other Crew games.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Orange Devil posted:

An average game of StarCraft is over in significantly less time than an average game of dota or lol.

Yeah, if anything I think it's that the popular strategy games could be over without a satisfying buildup. I'm not that great at managing games and mostly stick to single player but had a brief run of watching esports and Starcraft 2's scene when it was trying to get momentum a decade ago and it was weird how many games would just be over with the equivalent of a round one knockout. MOBAs effectively have a "no-rush" rule hard-coded in.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Trabisnikof posted:

after playing it for a while, I think I can say that Civ4:Colonization with the "We The People" mod is the definitive version of colonization. i would recommend it for anyone who gets the itch to colonize

It is very silly that it does the whole "No! It has to be pigskins for leather aprons, get those cowhides the gently caress away!" and that it introduces a bunch of random sort of food exportables and also features hens and geese as separate resources, but it's pretty neat even if I always feel like I'm falling behind.

I don't remember the original gameplay as much, but it is also nice that the mod seems to do more to encourage different gimmick playstyles to mix things up.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

It has a nice demo that lets you play a few full scenarios. It's a weird game. Really weird, but interesting and kind of fun.

From the bit that I played, if I had to describe it, it almost feels a bit like what they promised in that Republic: The Revolution game. Mixing military, spy stuff, activism and manipulation to build yourself up. At least in the scenarios I played around with. You have regular army guys that you're trying to train and herd around and build up enough so that they can take a proper city from your rivals. But then you've also got spies and agitators, who are sometimes in a completely separate faction with completely separate resources. Each one can do different types of missions and it's all heavily based on agents and units.

One of the tutorial scenarios, for example, features 3 separate factions working as one, including a communist agitator you just have play his own little game trying to stir up revolutions in your enemy's cities. But reducing their support with the working class reduces the number of supply carriers that they can hire and generally makes their life harder, plus picket units meant to defend strikes have the ability to gently caress with militias, so you soften them up with spies and agitators then move in with the army. Use a spy to monitor an army, sow rumors to wreck morale and then maybe just straight up bribe them to fight for you and flip the whole drat army around. Actually fighting is kind of second to maneuvering your army, keeping it loyal and wearing down the others with actions.

I'm afraid it would get too frustrating at scale, but I like that it exists. Also fun that it can have a narrow focus. You have specific goals in a very specific chunk of the map except for the grand scenarios, so it's nice to be doing your own thing as this whole world keeps ticking along in the background.

Although I'm more interested in the J Edgar Hoover game that the dev made that a few goons mentioned. Might buy it once I have some money to blow.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Pretty decent. It builds the story up with a lot more action than what really happened, but that's just kind of Hollywood.

The crazy part, and probably what helped bury it, is that they didn't back away from the bummer end of it all. The 3rd act didn't really shy away from anything and featured a bunch of stuff about the rise of legal slavery after the war. Just watching a dream die without any shred of hope.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
It's also kind of funny that that run is still possible because I think that used to be a fun gimmick run I heard about in Victoria 2. Be independent Hawaii and benefit from their relatively high literacy rate and then start colonization on a bunch of Asian territories, with the goal being not to actually colonize them but to let all the random pops immigrate into utopian Hawaii, giving you a massive population that you could use to industrialize.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

This does make me want to go back to Tropico [1] and see if learned concepts still apply: I think it would be important to load up on lots of construction and teamster capacity, and then really try to move up the value chain to take advantage of more valuable goods.

Not sure about the 1st one, since I think it has problems with dealing with scale. I mostly remember stuff taking forever in the 1st one from people have to walk everywhere. Or maybe I just sucked at the game as a kid. Each teamster and construction office holds a lot of people so you usually don't need to bulk up on them too much, since you'd rather your limited population be doing valuable work. Not having to build roads or basic shacks (people build their own shanty towns) really cuts down on construction busy work. But running low on teamsters is an easy way to gridlock an economy since you want the docks as full as possible at all times. General rule is still true though unless you're doing a gimmick. Take advantage of mining natural resources or farming cash crops for early game cash. Get a high school set up so that you can have enough factory workers and stop having to pay for experts to immigrate, then use factories to get crazy value add and make the big bucks.

I think the later games added imports in to even let you become a specialized producer who just buys the raw materials and provides the labor.

Tropico still strikes me as kind of an odd duck. It's agent focused in a really interesting way. All the people have factions and skill levels and problem faction people exist on the actual map to be tracked, arrested, killed, etc. The population is also so low that it's even reasonable to mentally keep track of some of your population. They live in specific houses and you can theoretically target neighborhoods with buildings and effects to influence people and make them change factions. But there's almost never a reason to get that granular with the game. You just treat it like a typical city builder unless you're bored and loving around or doing one of the challenges that the sequels introduced. And the skill system doesn't matter half of the time because people switch jobs way too easily.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

sullat posted:

Be sure to pay your teamsters and dockworkers $2-4 more than other jobs otherwise you'll have a bunch of dockworkers quit and leave $200,000 worth of goods on the quay to go and become strippers or something.

For construction, basically keep bulldozing & rebuilding the construction shops closer to where you're developing since time spent walking from the office to the jobsite counts as working time (so does time spent walking from home to the office in the first place but you're less able to control for that).

I usually rushed getting the trade mission to the USSR ASAP since it cuts the price of housing in half which is a really great deal, the USA's mission (half price airports and powerplants) is more of a late game thing and really only benefits the capitalists and tourists anyway.

It is funny how catering to the capitalists usually results in having to cheat in elections, oppress the people and often results in having to flee the island in a leaky boat with a suitcase of cash regardless while catering to the communists results in an easy victory.

Yeah, Teamsters and Dockworkers are the heart of the island. One of the other reasons capitalism plays suck is that I think you're supposed to pay basic labor less than college educated people to keep the capitalist faction happy, and man, I'm sorry for the doctors but it's way more important that that load of tinned fish makes it to the dock.

Part of the issue is that the 1st game struggles really hard with the split between capitalism and communism. Which is partly a problem because you're always going to be some form of communist since you're doing top-down central planning in the economy unless you basically become a small business tyrant at an island scale. So "capitalism" is just arbitrarily introducing income inequality and leaning into tourism and a general sense of creating and nurturing a rich class over top of a poor class...which, fair enough. But the benefits of capitalism compared to communism in 1 are really lopsided unless you're just doing it as a challenge. Just giving everybody homes with no rent/rent=maintencance and jobs while profiting off of your industry is much easier.

The later games did a little better job of modeling the differences by making the capitalism path more a question of whether you're struggling and reaping the benefits or letting foreign money come in and put you under boot in return for money in hand. Although from memory the foreign investment systems were still kind of rough.

Funny that I remember my young teen or pre-teen self reading the original Tropico manual which carefully laid out all the political and faction definitions and asking my parents why exactly communism was so bad. And that it seemed to make a lot of sense in developing the island :).

For an older game series with some kind of questionable bits to it, it is funny that it is so right about the feel of it. Communism means boring but fine tenement buildings and eventually nice apartment buildings once you can afford it and some reasonable entertainment options with strong social services and steady development of industry. You basically just have to lie, cheat and steal to keep everybody barely in line and then it gets easier once things start to fall in. Capitalism is selling yourself out to tourists or crushing workers, relying on a bunch of soldiers or the US army base to keep your rear end safe and having shanty towns and bunkers tucked away somewhere while you build artisanal houses and mansions for the top 20% or so. Neat.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Yeah, I remember a few people observing that it was a little weird that they basically encouraged segregation in the early builds, but I figured it was a simple little gameplay thing that didn't mean to mean anything. Going in a weird direction with it.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Fallout Tactics was also fun for mixing the RPG and squad stuff. Not a lot of games, I guess maybe just Jagged Alliance 2, do the thing where you can have your squad walk around do quests and talk to people before combat breaks out or between combat. Or even just having different combat events spread across the map. Like go in and gently caress up the main group of raiders with a big firing squad but then focus and do some tactical stuff to breach the back lot and keep them from blowing up the fuel tank.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
Yeah, I like Three Kingdoms but it's really different from a Total War game. Much more focused on your faction and leader characters. Not much in the way of agents and very much a military game.

I kind of liked how the diplomacy system worked though. Making it more of a straight transaction worked well. But there's bits that don't feel quite as fleshed out as they should be. It's still a huge bummer that if you're one of the Yellow Turban factions and you manage to overthrow the capital or capture the emperor, then it's just treated as a little pop-up on the screen. Feels like it should be a game changer.

Also I don't know if I just suck at the game and let it drag out too much, but several of the factions have a habit of kind of running out of gas and the game turning into an auto-resolve slog at the end.

I will say that I really liked the differences between the kingdoms. Several of them play in very different ways and the early game is really well done.

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Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009
I liked Against the Storm's solution of just making the town temporary so that you're constantly doing the fun early stage.

And yeah, Empires of the Undergrowth being more of a straight RTS was a bit of a bummer, even if I still kind of like it.

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