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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

gmts path of glory is fun but you gotta ease folks into it. maybe a little twilight struggle to get them to stop fearing cardboard tokens

I have Paths of Glory but noone to play it with :(


Also lol at Twilight Struggle being a thing people can be eased into.

Also, play the Decisive Campaign series. They're each very different but each very good.

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
What about an entire German Army Group?

*smiles in Bagration*

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Pryor on Fire posted:

I found my grognard limit with Decisive Campaigns Ardennes, I spent an hour on the Plan Martin scenario and am maybe halfway done with my first turn. If you want to manage each company level formation across multiple army corps then you should probably be locked up.

I've played multiple multiplayer games of the Wacht am Rhein scenario. Turns for the German side usually take between an hour and two hours. Much faster for night turns. Allies tend to go faster also, aside from the first turn.


Don't really feel like getting into Plan Martin though because it looks like such a slam dunk for the Allies that it's difficult to imagine anything interesting happening.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Why are you putting only 1 line inf per hex while the opponent is stacking like 3 or 4?

Would it be better to bring up those 2 reserve brigades as well as the regiments with the rifled muskets into the front hexes?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

They were updated and rereleased

https://store.steampowered.com/app/936530/Close_Combat_Last_Stand_Arnhem/

That's the update for Close Combat 2, A Bridge Too Far, which is the best in the series

The update is a lot worse than the original because of the strategic map though.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

It was pre-wired for detonation and blown almost as soon as the 101st got there. It was also an iconic scene in the movie, and as I said the memoirs and Cornelius Ryan’s book, so I’d say no.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt4WdpOF4yg

e: I can’t think of any hex and counter games where I’ve captured it intact, and iirc I’ve never got it intact in Highway to the Reich nor Market Garden 44 either.

CCA has a small chance for bridge detonations to fail, at least in multiplayer. So there is a chance, it’s just tiny iirc.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

it's unbelievable how simple the concept was and yet how badly they hosed up the implementation

actually, the other game that needs to be remade is Merchant Prince 2

Yah, the original Colonization was fun as hell and every single thing about the remake sucked.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Wanna play DC:Ardennes' Wacht am Rhein scenario vs Frosted Flakes. Germans have a disadvantage in everything except number of artillery tubes but turns out if you know what you are doing you can make that count like a motherfucker.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
It's better than Panzer General and it's copies due to how it handles logistics. The naval scenario's are not fun though.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Because you get the money and it is other people that need the wheat to eat and the idea of there being a nation with a common interest is a lie.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

I bounced off Emperor hard because it always felt like you were messing up the Feng Shui meter when placing buildings and my sense of consistency couldn't take just disregarding it

Feng Shui seems complicated at first but it is really easy once you get it. It's just also very annoying and the main reason I put down the game again whenever I go back to it.

It's a really lovely mechanic in what is otherwise the best game in the series. Persistent cities make Zeus a marked improvement over Pharaoh imo.


All that said, I'm looking forward to the Pharaoh remake.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 13:38 on Aug 26, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Also while we're on this genre I am just going to say that Settlers 7 was the best game in the series. I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

It has very good gameplay systems but suffers greatly from almost the entire campaign being a giant tutorial not letting you play with all those systems.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Wanna see a W&R big box store with parking.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
You can (and should) use exclusively rail (I think it's ligt rail) in the SNES version of SimCity which might just be a SimCity 1 clone?


But yeah the whole series is dumb garbage from a "how does any of this actually work?" perspective.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Slavvy posted:

I'm halfway through the tutorials on w&r and it's easily the best game of this kind I've played. Also very uplifting instead of just increasingly immiserating and stressful.

You nerds are really starting to sell me on this game.


Can you roleplay as Allende in full Cybersyn mode?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Privileges for essential workers, as it were.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I liked the climate change parts of it.

I didn't like that the AI appeared incapable of engaging with a number of mechanics.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 14:51 on Sep 2, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Seleukids in Fields of Glory: Empires was quite interesting imo.

More than in any other game I've seen them in. Curious to read what this guy thinks.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

Old World's AI is frighteningly good

Eh, it's fine and they give the AI large bonuses, which makes the game have a fun challenge. Once you git gud you'll learn how to exploit it same as any other AI though. It's just different enough from the rest of the genre that you'll have to learn new things to do that.

Legit took a fair number of games and learning curve to be able to play Old World on max difficulty, so certainly got my moneys worth in playtime out of it. I really like the orders system, generally like the resource system (protip: you never have enough stone) except for the magic of instant trading with ??? making it feel just a tad too gamey. They might have fixed it now but in the beta what kinda broke my brain on the game a bit was when I did a One City Challenge and it turned out that made the game a lot easier. Due to the way improvements and culture works your 1 city actually becomes superproductive and you get to completely sidestep dealing with noble family politics (because only 1 city = 1 family) and because you don't really expand you avoid a lot of the pressure on the AI (negative opinion from proximity etc) so that conflict is avoided for far longer than otherwise.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

A Total War game with good strategic AI would be a dream. I liked nearly everything Field of Glory Empires did, and I’m excited for the Medieval sequel, but it’s not quite the same. Old World has fewer moving pieces and does a great job, but the combat in Civ and Civ-alikes isn’t for me.

I don't know if the strategic AI holds up, but I remember playing a battle in either Shogun 1 or Medieval 1 where through clever maneuvring and use of forests I managed to severely outposition the AI, and the AI responded by retreating from the field completely, ceding the province without a fight but preserving their army. To this day that's the most intelligent thing I've seen a Total War AI do, and none of the modern ones have gotten close.

I did appreciate Shogun 2 solving the AI being completely unable to deal with the pathfinding bottlenecks of sieges by just letting units scale walls. And the Realm Divide thing kept the game interesting longer than these kind of games tend to be. But generally Total War games are an utter disappointment of in theory cool mechanics that the AI just has not a clue what to do with. Empire being the absolute worst.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 16:15 on Sep 16, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Dreylad posted:

I think its gotten a lot better since beta, but I can see what you're saying. I'm still on my way to game mastery so I'm really enjoying it as I slowly get better. I just find the decisions the game asks me to make is a lot more interesting than anything that's really been presented in the recent civs.

That's fair. I haven't played Civ6 and I burned out on Civ5 very quickly. Series is dead to me and I wish they'd just do a good Colonization 2 instead.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
EU3 & 4 are the ARPG of Paradox games.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I played the demo and it is very much a type of game that the AI will have no clue how to play. Furthermore there is a whole lot of moving parts and granularity that doesn't really serve much purpose but will wow people and obscure that under the hood the game is a trainwreck for a good while. I expect eventually the hype will die down and people will figure out the game is just poo poo though.


Unrelatedly the games geopolitical model is hilariously liberal.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

PerniciousKnid posted:

The game models nationalist non-class wars so it's a lost cause from the jump.

Yeah but those actually exist. The end of history doesn’t. Unless it’s the death of the last human being, which isn’t a victory (for us).

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

KirbyKhan posted:

Against The Storm is a Banished-like that's pretty tightly focused and small scaled. It does the rougelike thing of presenting you buildings one decision at a time. Pace of the game is good, enough time to build one good economic engine or half an engine and a gimmick. Very Slay The Spire but Endzone

I can heartily recommend Against The Storm.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Did the Civ series ever introduce negative effects to chopping down all your forests for sped up production?

Wanna see that soil erosion gently caress things up.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I was wondering if that game is good but the 4x thread in games appears to be dead.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
So how are you liking DC: Ardennes, Frosted Flake?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
What settings were y'all playing Regiments on? I remember reading either here or in the Games thread that it was difficult but I'm rolling through all the operations with phases to spare, often winning the whole operation and/or stage in 1 phase.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

It had the potential to be great, it breaks my heart. They had to pull the team to salvage the other cockups.

Also, Wiz had to fix Johan’s work and almost redo the game. It was coming along and I think shows an understanding of pops and economy that could be good signs for Vicky.

Everything Johan touches needs a whole team of people to fix later and still doesn't live up to its potential yet he's got iron job security.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

He also seems kind surly, and is definitely not for everyone interpersonally, so I’m not seeing the upside from their perspective

Play me in DC: Ardennes Wacht am Rhein campaign.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

BrotherJayne posted:

poo poo is so good, we're on day 4 in the one I'm playing

I played a couple campaigns before my opponents called it quits :(

poo poo is very fun.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Check in to see if you can put a few % to science and/or money to make a breakpoint. Getting a yield tech or another army out a turn earlier is usually worth one less power or a bit of food.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Maximo Roboto posted:

EU II was the peak. Textbooks over sandboxes. For the Glory ftw

I am also in this camp.

The idea of a plausible simulation of history rather than a rigid textbook pseudo-repeat of history is great. If anyone ever manages to execute it I'll be thrilled. But meanwhile EU2 and AGCEEP and FTG got me into a whole lot of history I otherwise wouldn't have (I was all Middle Ages and WW2 as a kid) and EU3 and EU4 just don't have that.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I played a Prussia game but I've put it down now around 1865. I'm #1 in GDP, GDP/capita & prestige and I just beat Scandinavia + Russia to get Schleswig-Holstein so militarily I seem to be alright also. I got a couple colonies in Africa and Indonesia.

I also feel like I am making very few decisions to have gotten here, which feels, well, really boring, actually.

Most of the German states joined me voluntarily, but I still have no idea what causes this to trigger or what I can do to make it more likely. Bavaria seems to have aligned itself with Austria and even broke the Zollverein, which I didn't even notice until probably years after the fact.

I build what was in hindsight probably way too much construction capacity, but on the other hand that just means I was building lots of factories quickly using deficit spending. The game started telling me this meant my economy was in bad shape, but actually it just meant I outpaced my neighbours hard. I was overpaying for construction materials for a long time though because I was carefully trying to balance things and build up here and there. Eventually I got tired of that and just built every single wood RGO my states would allow, and a shitton of extra mines and tool factories. That seemed to work, but I had a lot of radicals, probably due to high taxes? Anyway, it was solved by just building 300 farms and a couple dozen furniture and clothes factories, driving the prices of basic necessities way down. This also got rid of a lot of peasants, really kickstarting GDP.

The Junkers remained happy when they were kicked out of government and replaced by Industrialists because I still had a lot of repressive laws. Those were then changed over time and by the time they cared enough to get upset their power was already broken anyways. The Clergy didn't raise any ruccus when I switched all the buildings they played a role in to secular modes of production, and a couple years later they were insignificant. Feels quite odd that this was just a couple button presses with seemingly no consequences.

After I build those hundreds of RGOs I started to see how much work it was to micro building the factories, or well specifically, figure out which factory to build next. So I just put every single factory on automatic expansion. On top of that this seems to activate the investment pool? Anyway, from a multimillion deficit I went to a million in gold reserve now very quickly, so I slammed more construction capacity down. A couple time I had to kickstart new industries by manually building a 10 or 20 of them, like say when electricity was invented. Then just swich production methods and put it on automated. To be fair I've had electricity shortages for over a decade but everything still seems fine? If I could find the collective electricity demand and current max production capacity I wouldn't mind manually slamming the missing capacity but I can't find that anywhere so I'd have to manually add up all the different electricity requiring buildings' needs and that's too much effort for something which seems to work just fine anyhow.

I payed little attention to what techs to research, and I get a bunch for free anyway. I have no idea how many universities I "should" be running. Speaking of changing production methods, it loving sucks that you have to go through the list every time you integrate another minor to fix all their outdated poo poo. Also means having buildings on different production types is a micro-intensive nightmare as then you can't use the building tab to just put everything to the same thing when doing this fixing.

This full automation seems to have run into a limitation now where it has created so many clothes and furniture factories that I'm running out of labour force to run new industries, and railroads seem to be having issues hiring people, even though they are state owned and subsidized. Anyway, I guess the solution is to either demolish some factories, conquer more territory to increase population or keep making my laws friendlier, as with no migration controls and multicultural society people from all over the world appear to be flocking to me anyway.

Oh also, Bismarck died after being around for like 2 years. And I think I got von Moltke killed mapping out the Congo river or whatever. Those event chains also feel like a waste of time tbh. Like if succesful I get prestige, but it's not clear to me what prestige does or why I should care.


So long story short, I was carefully trying to tend things for the first 10 or so years, then just turned on all the automation I could find and only kickstarted new poo poo when it came up and now 30 years into the game I am #1 at everything. If I would replay and use a bit more micro plus the lessons learned I'm quite confident I could achieve the same result at least 5 years earlier, maybe 10. Also while the game tells me being in massive deficit (but under the limit) is bad, it actually means I just industrialize faster.

Diplomatically I have no idea why things are happening or not happening. It honestly doesn't even feel like I played a game.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Importing goods might perfectly encapsulate what makes it feel like I'm not making any decisions.

The game gives you a big important notification when an important good's price is unreasonably high. You can then click that and go to the good info, and one more click gets you to the trade window. Here the game will list all the possible import routes. You can sort by profitability. So then you click all the ones that are green. If, due to changing market circumstances, one of those trade routes ever goes in the red, the game gives you a notification you can click and then with one more click you cancel the trade route.

The two other inputs to this process are having enough convoys and bureaucracy. If convoys insufficient, click on a port to increase its size and that'll solve itself in a few months. If bureaucracy insufficient, build a government admin building in a state and that'll solve itself in a few months.


It's like, all of these things appear to have straightforward optimal solutions. The game actively points you at those solutions. All you then have to do is click the button. It's so close to being fully automated to just doing the things that make sense. None of it feels like making a decision. If you want to argue that maybe you want to spend your limited funds or construction capacity or whatever on something else rather than expanding ports/bureaucracy then ok maybe buuuut if the important goods you are importing are inputs to your construction industry that's just never an efficient course of action. And plenty of times you just have the convoy capacity and bureaucracy capacity laying around anyway.



Edit: here's another thing that just feels weird.
Like say your states can support 300 logging RGOs or whatever. At the start of the game you might have like 30 such RGOs. Without changing political makeup you can (and should) just start building like a 100 more of those RGOs. No political faction will object to this. Within a few years this likely will vastly change the internal shape of your country, as double digit % peasants will become labourers working for a landlord or capitalist or whatever. You don't need any tech for this and there is no political resistance to this. So why is it exactly that your country in 1836 has few RGOs, but in 1841 it's bustling with RGOs? Why didn't this process start in 1830? Or 1820? Or 1810? Other than that the start date in which the player gets to take control is set at 1836?

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 11:51 on Oct 27, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
So apparently Prussia is to easy to have valid complaints so I'm playing Ottomans now.

Took longer to break the power of the landlords cus they were more entrenched in laws. Took longer to build up industry and production capacity cus you start from a shittier position in terms of tech and existing RGOs and industry. Had to fight some wars, which was fun. The diplo play mechanic is nice as well. Fronts need work and it'd be nice to be able to know in advance what I could do to get support from other powers in my diplo play before starting one.


Overall though, still not very difficult and most of the decisions seem very obvious. I think it's because what is supposed to be a careful modernizing balancing act is trivialized because radicals don't uhh do poo poo at all? I regularly had 5m radicals on a total pop of 20m, with only 200k loyalists. Turmoil in almost all my provinces. I got good police though so impact is minimal. If a full quarter of your population is radically opposed to your government you'd think they would do something. But they don't. So I just merrily keep industrializing until I finally reach the point where I can throw all that cheap construction capacity into RGOs and consumer industries, quality of life shoots up, the whole population deradicalizes, further increasing state income, funding yet more industry, and then the virtuous cycle never ends.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

the way I'm reading the discussion over the last page or so is that the way you proactively take command of the economy is that you look at what your people [want to] consume, and then you start building those up, even if you have to start from something as basic as grain farms to replace subsistence farming

and eventually you'll start needing factories instead of just RGOs, and sometimes those factories are going to need inputs that you can't provide yourself, so you have to import them

and eventually you'll develop newer production methods, but the trade-off to increased productivity is that they require new materials, like Tools or Coal, so you build Tools factories, and you build coal mines, or you import coal

and you basically build your economy from the most basic needs, upwards?

The part you're missing is that construction is expensive if the inputs are expensive. So you (or at least I) first invest a shitton in the basic construction materials. That is wood, iron and tools. The basic input for tools is also wood and iron, so that's convenient. Once you get more efficient mining tech you need coal and tools to run it, so more wood, iron, tools and then also some coal. Run those prices into the ground and you can sustain more construction. Then do all the things you outlined. Whenever you do anything that takes wood, iron, tools or coal as an input (ie. almost everything), make sure you increase that capacity also. Cheap construction is the engine of industrialization. Eventually you run into infrastructure limits so you need to build railroads (wood, iron, tools, coal & engines, which also need steel, which needs iron and coal.

I deficit spend like mad to build that wood, iron, tools and later coal capacity up. This also means peasants become poorly paid labourers because no other factory or RGO jobs available and I am driving the prices of the goods into the ground so the landlords/capitalists save money on wages, and while my population grows naturally during this time, I'm not increasing production of their basic necessities. Government goes in debt and lower classes radicalize. However this has no consequences. Then when your production engine is ready, you mass-build the basic necessities of the lower class, ie. wheat, fabrics, tobacco, clothing, furniture and solve the radicalization problem, which solves the debt problem.



Edit:
I do think playing Ottomans I've figured out why the AI doesn't build highly sought after and relatively rare RGOs, like dye or silk: because making profit on it is actually really loving difficult. In an aborted first run with Ottomans I tried to kickstart my economy by funding it through silk exports. So I built a bunch of silk RGOs. Except now to export it you need convoys, which need ports, which need clippers, which need shipyards and wood and tools. If the clippers are too expensive, the port doesn't make a profit on its exports. The inputs of clippers are wood and tools. And my export and import is hard-capped by number of ports I can build. And also every trade route takes bureaucracy, which means I gotta build government buildings. Starting to see the problem? I need a more complex supply chain just to be able to export silk at profit to then fund my construction and industrialization as if I just build the cheap construction internally. And both don't do dick for my pops' quality of life, so the resulting radicalization would be about equal. But it costs a lot more to build the silk export supply chain because I'm not lowering my construction material costs as I'm doing it.

So in conclusion, it appears the AI is actually making a smart decision not developing those supply chains and turning themselves into an export-based RGO economy. Though the collective effect of that on the world economy is quite pronounced. What appears to be missing in the game's model is the landlord class or a comprador class forcing this kind of development because it greatly benefits them at the expense of the rest of society.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 11:28 on Oct 28, 2022

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:

Because I'm dumb here's what I've gathered about Customs Unions.

1) Daddy sells all your inputs to you, if they're available, at their market price. Daddy also sells you all the things your pops need that you don't have. Daddy buys all your surplus output. This costs 0 bureaucracy and 0 convoys.

2) You can use your own convoys to do other things like undercut Daddy if something he sells is too expensive. You can also sell things you don't have. For instance, you can sell Silk to Qing even though you don't make Silk. I guess this means your merchants go out and source Silk from Daddy and sell it to Qing for a profit, so you can use Custom Unions to do arbitrage.

Not having to use convoys seems like an insane benefit. Sucks from a simulation perspective though as apparently goods can cross oceans through the magic power of a common market?

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
lol those welfare payments

Create some jobs. Like seriously, maybe get rid of some labour-saving production techniques/machines?

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