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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

John Charity Spring posted:

Humankind sucks and is boring and weirdly racist, but I hear good things about Old World even from people who have otherwise gone off Civ games

Strong recommend Old World. It was made by the lead designer of Civ 4 and it's the most enjoyable 4x I've played since Civ 4. It has a lot of the trappings of Civ 5 but it's good. I think hexes are fine, it's just that Civ has never done a good job getting its AI to deal with hexes well. Old World's AI is good enough.

Paradox games are up and down but I really do enjoy CK3. Hoping for the best with Vicky 3.

Also if anyone's looking for a bit of a janky but cool game Shadows of Forbidden Gods is a goon-made strategy game where you play as a reawakened ancient evil god.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 13:57 on Jul 14, 2022

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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
Looks like you're already doing it but trying to grab that hill NE of Crittenden House should help shore up your eastern flank and give you a better chance against those elite rebs.

Or I guess give ground and just spread out towards Mitchell Station Road

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

The reviews mention some issues with terrain and BUA, is it the abstracted area system of Eugen games or do they model discrete buildings?

As far as I remember with steel division buildings that can be garrisoned are modeled (and can be destroyed) so kinda.

I love those games but I feel my old man reflexes really impact my ability to play against other people in multiplayer. Steel Division 1 was a blast, the Canadians were legit decent since you got to bring a Ram 2 (of which only one was ever made irl lol)

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
My favourite moment in Steel Division 1 was bombing a Tiger so it started to fall back and overrunning it with a lovely open top troop carrier.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Orange Devil posted:

I liked the climate change parts of it.

I didn't like that the AI appeared incapable of engaging with a number of mechanics.

The AI has never been up to snuff. Medieval 1 had the best version of the campaign map because the AI was able to play it reasonably well. CA did the same thing Civ 5 and 6 did and designed games they couldn't build AIs for.

I think Old World has cracked the code, but some people really find some of its design decisions grating. It's just nice to play a civ-like game where the AI can be a challenge. It's probably due to the fact that the game is designed for competitive multiplayer and single player flows from that. At least in this case, it works well.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 15:17 on Sep 16, 2022

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Orange Devil posted:

Eh, it's fine and they give the AI large bonuses, which makes the game have a fun challenge. Once you git gud you'll learn how to exploit it same as any other AI though. It's just different enough from the rest of the genre that you'll have to learn new things to do that.

Legit took a fair number of games and learning curve to be able to play Old World on max difficulty, so certainly got my moneys worth in playtime out of it. I really like the orders system, generally like the resource system (protip: you never have enough stone) except for the magic of instant trading with ??? making it feel just a tad too gamey. They might have fixed it now but in the beta what kinda broke my brain on the game a bit was when I did a One City Challenge and it turned out that made the game a lot easier. Due to the way improvements and culture works your 1 city actually becomes superproductive and you get to completely sidestep dealing with noble family politics (because only 1 city = 1 family) and because you don't really expand you avoid a lot of the pressure on the AI (negative opinion from proximity etc) so that conflict is avoided for far longer than otherwise.

I think its gotten a lot better since beta, but I can see what you're saying. I'm still on my way to game mastery so I'm really enjoying it as I slowly get better. I just find the decisions the game asks me to make is a lot more interesting than anything that's really been presented in the recent civs.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

It’s like how the first half of a Total War game is getting jumped by every faction around you but the back half is just steamrollering everything else. They really need to change how they do victory conditions because even with great mods I never want to stick with it to the end.

I conquered Rome and Illyria in DEI and while that felt like a huge achievement and took idk 40 turns, the game then wanted me to fight Carthage and the Diodochi and then conquer Gaul and Dacia. I don’t even want to manage that much poo poo in a turn, and if you beat one of them you can beat all of them - if you can tolerate the game long enough. It’s just no longer a struggle and the peacetime and “building tall” mechanics just aren’t there.

in theory Stellaris late-game crises were supposed to address this but they didn't really pan out well. I think the Old World (i am never going to shut up about this game) does it well by fine tuning the victory conditions so you generally win by the time you've "won." Or you can enable the AI aggression mode so that everyone turns on you as you get close to winning.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

oscarthewilde posted:

vicky3's most promising gameplay change is the removal of player-controllable armies and I salute Wiz for having the guts to fundamentally change the Paradox playbook

that's pretty neat

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
Why the gently caress did they add combat to Surviving Mars? That game absolutely did not need it.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
Achievement runs for EU4 are kind of the only reason I played the game, because they give you tangible goals and generally don't require you to play a full game. Sunset Invasion and A Sun King are both great as you have to play as Aztec/Inca who are given their own minigames in their starting areas to deal with followed by the dread years of first contact with the Europeans and trying not to stall until you can get a decent peace from a war dec.

it makes for a fun game once you get closer to techn parity and start to be able to challenge the Europeans directly

i will say CK3's DLC seems to be getting released a slower pace and seems better thought out, but it's hard to argue that the DLC model is good

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
also as everyone's pointed out earlier, most games just peeter out because you can usually become a powerhouse well before the game ends, strategy games should be shorter and more focused like Old World

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
I wonder if the biggest hurdle to doing a game that's more based on a material history is it runs counter to what most of your players believe and so you'd run into problems of people struggling to succeed because everything is counterintuitive unless you abstract things enough that you teach them to play your game. Like AoE or something.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
im waiting.

also i like the implication that old paradox games were somehow worth it

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
I think Wiz said Capital was on the reading list when developing Vicky 3 so there was at least an attempt to have workers and and the means of production at the center of economic output.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
As far as I can tell people complaining about the game not having "free market capitalism" seem to be missing letting the AI develop your economy for you as with previous titles?

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

StashAugustine posted:

yeah lassiez-faire actually seems pretty strong here, though free trade is kind of a trap. but you the player are doing it instead of a brain dead ai so it's communist

I can see why people are missing that laissez faire feeling when you have to build 45 furniture factories while your population starves to death yourself instead of AI capitalists doing it for you

I know I don't really have to say it here, but people would be surprised by how much early modern states had to invest in developing their own industries or propping up private investment firms that were complete shitshows.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 22:24 on Oct 26, 2022

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
CK3 seemed pretty good to me at release. Obviously not as fleshed out as CK2 with its myriad of DLCs but still a good core of the same game updated and with some of the DLC stuff brought over. Vicky 3 seems like it'll get there pretty quickly, but who knows. People were really attached to being able to micro your soldiers in vicky 2

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

Which is weird, right, considering how most Victorian wars, which were Small Wars, were fought. I understand why you don’t want a separate ruleset and mechanics for wars in Europe and the ACW (actually, I do), but 1853, 66, 71 and 1914 were the exceptions. Most often wars and expeditions, Aethiopia, the Punjab, the North-West Frontier, the Sudan, Peking, were fought by columns that did not carry out any intricate manoeuvres. The high level decision making was to send them, the conduct of operations didn’t require close management.

Yeah, I think it's just familiarity with how all the old Paradox games worked and people feel like components are being stripped out even if from a game design perspective (and historical perspective) they don't make sense. I mean, as I posted earlier, it's the same about people wanting "capitalism/lessez-faire economics." What that seems to have boiled down to is having pops construct factories for you that often made no sense, which is funny and adds a certain kind of verisimilitude, but doesn't really give the player more stuff to do other than have to go command economy to do what they want anyway. \

And historically governments spun up whole industries all the time, protectionism was rampant, and those foolish enough to leave things to private investment more often than not had it blow up in their face. The Darian colony disaster that effectively forced the speculators in Scotland to sell the country to England springs to mind, although that's a bit before the game's starting date.

Unfortunately, I think the battle system haters might be right about different kinds of warfare being modeled in a future DLC.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
Has there ever been anything done on the Peninsular War specifically? Such a crazy war but there isn't a lot of non-academic coverage of it beyond a ton of British officers memoirs about how lovely it was to spend a few years in Iberia rounding up some Spanish peasantry to get massacred by Napolean's marshals over and over again.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
trying to teach myself Cubra LIbre because ive been thinking about trying to run a COIN forum game for CSPAM... a lot to keep track of though..

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Tekopo posted:

The time I ran it I just used DMs and Vassal, but I also narrated and wrote out every single card for the game. It was a lot of work

My next step was to check out TG to see if you guys had run it. I figured it'd be a lot of work even without transcribing, much respect for that level of effort.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

KomradeX posted:

But goddamn does the DLC for 2 do a lot of whitewashkng for units that were little more than useless except for killing Civilians. The Yugo slav one really stands out to that effect

they do that for a lot of minor nations. canada in SD1 had access to a tank that they only made a few copies of and I don't even know if it saw combat.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

Not really on the same level of the myriad Security Police, Auxiliary Police etc. units given innocuous bios. I mean, even the Arrow Cross coup in Hungary which led to the betrayal of the Hungarian Jews and most rapid rate of killing in the Holocaust was described as “bloodless”.

Eugen including fantasy units is a problem across all their games though. Yeah, it’s pretty dumb.

Yeah fair enough I haven't played SD2 to see that poo poo. The normal fantasy units are silly but ultimately fine since you're trying to give armies some kind of theme or balance.

still my favourite SD1 multiplayer moment was making a tiger tank surrender with an american halftrack.

Tekopo posted:

I found my game. Needs archives. I think this was completed? Could be wrong, was a long time ago.

Amazing, thank you!

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 16:38 on Feb 26, 2023

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Frosted Flake posted:

Are the Canadians even in COH3? Sicily and Italy were incredibly important for us.

the canadian mission in COH1 ruled. just pure liberal big happy family Canada propaganda in one mission

as far as Relic and making games I'd argue that COH1 is a good game, especially when it came out. Dawn of War as well, although I prefer 2.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 20:41 on Mar 13, 2023

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
I'm giving The New Order mod for HoI4 a shot because a bunch of people were singing its praises. It's kind of interesting, it really wants to just be about politics and the war stuff is in the background, which makes using HoI4 kind of funny but whatever. There's a whole economic system in place that ties your production output to GDP, and GDP is tied to your national spending and defecit. You grow your GDP by defecit spending, but too far and you risk financial crisis. I don't know if it's intentional or not but mimicking keynesian/post-keynesian thinking for a mod set in 1962 is pretty appropriate.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Lostconfused posted:

As people say TNO isn't really a game and more of a text based adventure game. You can press buttons and numbers will go up or down, but it's not important and doesn't make sense, it's just there to make you feel like you're doing something.

Edit: personally I prefer Kaiserreich for trying to make the story and gameplay work together instead of just pretending one of those things exists, but in reality it doesn't.

Yeah that's what I'm finding. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing with political power.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

i still think about the youtube channel Real Life Lore and get mad lol

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

it was a channel that covered what it called Real Life Lore aka history

i fully admit it's an incredibly stupid thing to get mad about

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 22:51 on May 12, 2023

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

KomradeX posted:

Like tounge in cheek?

no

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

StashAugustine posted:

dang now I wonder if anyone's done a wargame of the Social Wars

the Social Wars are still nuts to me. obviously trying to estimate the amount of deaths in a war let alone an ancient one is tough, like look at the An Lushan Rebellion for example, but the Social War did clearly have a major impact on Rome and the entire peninsula and even after all that Rome kept chugging along. Not without a lot of turmoil but still.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
immediate impulse is to a trump pronunciation and call it ango-la

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
it was a genuine mystery for some scholars as to how crops and goods made their way up and down the Americas until people realized that most of the technology indigenous Americans developed centered around navigating rivers, coastlines and narrow waterways to get around.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
that's a really cool looking game!

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
he did a great job as the science advisor in civ 2

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
sid meier's gettysburg was cool as a kid because the ai was braindead

although i will never forgive for continuing the idea that lee stopped at gettysburg for the shoe factory.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
There's some fun support stuff like some of the bigger AT weapons have an ammo backpack that you can carry and do a painfully slow reload, or a buddy can carry it and reload you and do it about 10 times as fast.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

StashAugustine posted:

Steel Division is really cool but I wish it didn't take so much effort to play. Sometimes you just wanna sit back and chill while slaughtering nazis instead of managing a battalion down to individual squads in real time

yeah Steel Division 1 was awesome (never got a chance to play 2) but every multiplayer game if the other team were decent was just my brain running full tilt to keep all the plates spinning

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
i think the shifting focus of civ games reflects changing ideas about game design in video games more than anything. especially civ 5 & 6. alternate victory conditions make sense because if you're wanting something to be more accurate to real life, total warfare in the modern era means nukes are flying and everyone's just making the rubble bounce.

civ4 still is great and the guy who helped make that made the old world which is also a very very good 4x.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
CA should have never abandoned the 2d risk map from medieval 1

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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
i think Wiz was responsible for some good stuff in CK2 and EU4, but got thrown into trying to salvage Stellaris at launch. Vicky 3 is all him, although I haven't played it so I have no opinion.

Vanilla EU4 is also very Johan but it got going after a few DLCs. I spent most of my time learning the game trying to beat the perfidious english as Scotland and failing a million times.

BearsBearsBears posted:

Other options are Colonization and Rise of Nations. Both very solid contenders for greatest strategy game of all time. Brian Reynolds and Peter Molyneux are strong contenders for being the greatest strategy game designers of all time. Admittedly, their latest work has not been great.

Soren Johnson imo as his work has gotten better over time.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 05:03 on Apr 11, 2024

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