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What Scenario will you start with?
Prehistory (Caveman)
Imperial China (Martial Arts Master)
Edo Japan (Ninja)
Wild West (Cowboy)
Present Day (Wrasslin)
Near Future (Mecha)
Future (Sci Fi)
View Results
 
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Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Harrow posted:

For when I get to the Edo Japan chapter: if I'm not going for a perfect pacifist run, should I care about how many guards I kill at all?

For guards, I don't think the count really matters, but there's a good prize if you don't kill women, and they're not hostile anyway. It's easy to miss, though. When someone thanks you for your mercy, wait until she comes back.

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Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
I don't know why I decided I was going to kill the fish in the Japan chapter at level 8 with only two party members, but I did and it's dead. The higher your numbers the lower the number of dice you have to roll there (can you poison it? does it paralyze you? can you interrupt Floodcall?), but if you get a little lucky (and you have the ten Castella Cakes from a pacifist run) then your numbers don't need to be that high.

Probably better to just kill ghosts in the warehouse for a while if you really want the scale, though.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Alxprit posted:

Hot tip for the Edo superbosses - they can be poisoned with Poison Mist. It lands a lot more often on the samurai than on the fish, but they're both eventually subsceptible to it and it does way way way way more damage if you land it than basically any actual attack you can do, and you can just play defensively once it lands to keep yourself safe.

Also I grinded a lot more for King Mammoth than just level 10... I got to 18, using the power of a turbo button in the Kuu Village. I had less accuracy problems with Pogo that way, but Gori struggled to hit it most of the time anyway. Maybe that means I'll be omega overpowered later, but I'm sure it's fine...

Phantom Butterflies can poison as well, though I'm not sure on the hit rate versus Poison Mist. It's also capable of sleeping the fish, and maybe the other one.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
For what it's worth, there's no real reason to kill both Ninja superbosses on a no-kill run: the fish gives you something valuable, but the other boss just duplicates the no-kill reward. (Different name, mechanically identical.) I'm pretty sure the remake doesn't change that. Sure, you get extra bragging rewards for doing it with two party members instead of three, but that means a lot more grinding.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Beat the King Mammoth at level 9. It was killing Gori in three hits and Pogo in four, so I wasn't ever in any real threat of dying. In general it feels like the difficulty's been toned down some in the remake, but it's been years, so I can't say that for sure.

The VA list at the end of the chapter was a surprise. They got Megumi Ogata in to do the caveman who communicates entirely through screaming? Apparently she doesn't even have any other roles in the game! That's hilarious.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
You use the cloak less like a cloak and more like a smoke bomb, because they forget about you basically right after you hit the button. Be the highly visible ninja you always wanted to be and just run everywhere.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Last Celebration posted:

So for the Void of Hatred or whatever the final chapter does it matter who I choose out of the seven non-Oerstien protagonists? I went with Cube thinking it’d be decent little mini-dungeons, and I like the lil guy but if this is a “pick your favorite to beat the game with” situation then I’ll just restart.

Final chapter stuff:

You can swap everyone in and out except your protagonist, so if you pick up everyone for their dungeons then your protagonist will end up the highest-leveled. Otherwise, your protagonist decides where you start, some protagonists avoid a few minor fights, and the protagonist has some dialogue with the final boss. Between Cube's relative lack of dialogue and the way robots level up, I'm afraid he's probably the worst choice for the final chapter leader. (Good as a party member, though.)

Personally I'd say the Earthen Heart Master is probably the best lead for the final chapter, especially if you picked Lei, both due to where you start and the general strength of their movesets. Akira and Masaru are two of the weaker characters, so I'd probably advise against them, but otherwise you're basically free to pick as you'd like.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
(Final chapter)

Half of the reason I recommend the Earthen Heart Master as the final chapter leader is because they have the easiest time getting Sundown: you start next to his own starting point, and from there it's just a matter of following him down the mountain and to the castle. The one point you might miss him is when he's up on the cliff, but he's bright orange.

Last Celebration posted:

well that’s a shame wrt Akira, I got spoiled that there was a chance to mindread some spirits for extra dialogue and he’s pretty cool in general; and yeah, Cube/Pogo seems like not the best choices narratively which is part of what I wondered. Cube does seem like an amazing healer tho.

(Final chapter)

Don't worry, the two Y button skills work even if that character isn't the party leader. The spirits are only in Akira's dungeon, but there's also two statues in Pogo's dungeon that you can read the minds of.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Xander77 posted:

Does it? I can't recall random encounters in CT.

...

I thought the fastest character was the ninja?

Loaded it up and checked. Level 10 Lei has 93 base speed, level 9 Oboromaru has 59. Even if you ignore the +20 Speed Lei can get from training (if you spread it out, or gave it to someone else), she's still faster. Oboromaru might be faster than a Yun without the +20 speed, but I doubt he's faster with it.

(He's faster than Sundown, at least: he's at 50 at level 9.)

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

Heya! Finally started the game yesterday and it's been a blast: I tried the SNES translation but was turned away by the SNES limitations, so this remake is a successful attempt IMO.

That said I have a question about Prehistory: Is it ok to fight King Mammoth at 12-13 instead of 16? Exp is starting to dry up. And what would be the best move outise of the Ultimate to use? Obv going with best equipment, Rock of Rocks + 4 pretty flowers for SpAtt

I beat King Mammoth at level 9, so it's totally possible. Just keep your distance, keep him on poison tiles as much as you can, and try to interrupt the lava field set attack with Pogo's jump attack. So long as you have a decent amount of healing, the fight's more annoying than difficult. (The Fertility Idol can help there if Gori doesn't need to put more poison on the field.)

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Yun was my first choice back when I played the game back in the SNES version because the narrative conventions invoked all but outright say, "hey, this guy will be the strongest one in the end!" But in the story itself, the Earthen Heart Shifu says that he didn't ask Yun to join him as a student because Yun was already strong. Similarly, Hong already knew the right thing to do, but he lacked the power to put that inner strength to proper purpose, and hunger and desperation drove him to do wrong.

With Lei, meanwhile, there's never any attempt to soften her starting position: she's a bandit, and she hurts people so she can take their stuff. Even in the final chapter, she doesn't offer any excuses for who she was. So I think it's fitting that the true strongest successor of the Earthen Heart is a bad person who, when given the opportunity to change, seizes the opportunity to begin on the long road to becoming someone better.

Item Getter posted:

Fair enough, it's why he seemed like the natural choice to me but I can see why that would make him boring for a lot of people.

Speaking of the Psychic Biker Mecha Pilot, I think it's a little strange that they chose to end his chapter with the cliche sort of "It was all just a dream.... or was it???" type ending, but I guess it all really happened anyway since Odeo is placed on the same boss-rush pantheon as all the other Odios and Akira keeps all of his items from the chapter etc. And all that is basically mandated by the larger structure of the game, which makes you wonder why they chose to end the chapter that way at all. Granted I haven't tried selecting him as the final chapter protagonist so not sure if it's addressed there.

Nah, he wakes up in the park at the end, but that's a bookends thing, since that's how he begins the chapter in the first place. It's there to contrast where he begins and where he ends the story. Akira's arc has him start out as a self-centered brat defined by his power and his powers, and he finishes it having followed in Matsu's footsteps, as a person who had power and who set that power aside to live a mundane life centered around helping others.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

On the Near Future chapter, are there any must haves for the final chapter through item enhancing? What's the best equipmwnt you can get?

I'm going to break from tradition here and say that none of the robot accessories are very good. Cube's always going to be one of your least effective attackers and the robot accessories aren't really going to change that, so his turns are better spent healing or using items. Make a couple with any attack items you get and then don't spend much more time thinking about it.

(It's also not important for the chapter itself, since the one normal boss fight is a gimmick fight.)

The other Near-Future equipment also isn't that impressive compared to other stuff available in the final chapter, so make Akira some decent gear and then leave it there.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

EclecticTastes posted:

I do believe it was impossible to learn personal moves during the temple raid, because I remember being very intent on getting Unseen Bow's Arrow to trigger during the fight with the dudes around the table back then, likely to ensure Lei would learn it during the raid, thus avoiding an empty level that would have ruined her chance of getting all her moves. But, again, someone who's played the SNES version more recently may show up and correct me, my memory ain't what it used to be. :corsair:

You definitely could; Yun usually ended up picking up his first two skills before chapter end, as I recall. Meanwhile, in the remake, Lei learned her first personal move during the chapter climax and then picked up Unseen Bow's Arrow on her first level in the final chapter, so something is happening. It's possible that there's a special catch-up rule in the final chapter specifically.

If not, well, at least a character with Fox's, Heavenly Peak's Descent and their personal moves would still be pretty competent, and that's the only learned move you absolutely need for the ultimate weapon. And it's even the one you'd use if you were just speedrunning the training!

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

EclecticTastes posted:

If you have spare gear, you may as well hand it out, but the boss' stats are exactly the same as the first time you fight them, at least on the SNES, so you shouldn't need it. The only fight that's arguably harder is O-D-O since you don't have Gori, Beru, and Zaki providing extra actions, but that just takes the fight from "trivial" to "very easy".

I'd argue that O.Dio is the biggest problem, just because the Gatling Gun is no longer diagonal-only in the remake. Sure, it has a charge time and Sundown is fast, but if you're not using him in your main party the it's a very good idea to load him up with your best leftover gear. If the fight is short, then that's less opportunity for you to do something stupid and take 999 to the face.

They actually did make Odeo easier in the refight, I noticed: he's down from about as much HP as the Steel Titan to less than half. But considering that the Steel Titan doesn't level up, I'm not going to complain about that change.

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Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Oxxidation posted:

bringing this back up - should i be at all concerned with the superbosses? the amount of preparation and effort needed to beat king mammoth seems way out of proportion to what the rest of the stage requires and i don't know if that's a trend

King Mammoth has pretty good rewards. The Soda Bottle is as strong as people say, (it isn't worth grinding for, but hey, you might get lucky.), and the King's Fang that always drops gives a big boost to a stat that doesn't get many boosts and blocks a very important status. That said, skipping it won't hurt you that much. I'd give the fight a couple of tries (put poison under his feet, keep your distance, try to interrupt charging with Pogo), but if you can't pull it off then just move on, it's fine.

Neither of the two ninja superbosses drop very useful items; in particular, one of them drops a weapon that's the same as the reward for the no-kill run, if you're interested in doing that.

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