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SatoshiMiwa posted:Women's Division has a problem that it's venn diagram of good workers/legit stars doesn't overlap that much. They probably should of locked down Riho more for shows though as she was a legit ratings mover (also the Bunny shouldn't have gotten hurt...the real needle mover) It's frustrating because there's a diverse set of workers with a history of putting on some bangers in the past, who are barely, if ever, featured on the main shows like Nyla Rose, Riho, Shida, Diamante, etc. I'm pretty sure neither Serena Deeb nor Mercedes Martinez have appeared since Death Before Dishonor either.
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Aug 20, 2022 21:13
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edogawa rando posted:Toni and Hayter are interesting additions to the title scene, and I want to see Rosa’s reign grow on its own terms. the fact that we're getting britt vs the woman toni just beat this week on the next dynamite why do i have this feeling britt and jamie are gonna find some way to insert themselves into the all out title match
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Aug 20, 2022 22:18
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The problem with the women's division as I see it is that top 100-200k that you gain or lose depending on the episode or the segment just doesn't seem to care that much about it. This is going purely off of memory, but I don't recall much of anything in Britt or Thunder Rosa's reigns doing particularly well in the ratings. I remember Britt vs. Ruby at Grand Slam was the main event of that show and was the lowest quarter in 18-49, I don't think either of the St. Patrick Day Slams were big ratings successes and they were both built around Britt vs. Rosa in huge, built-up hardcore matches. I do remember the first Battle of the Belts with did very well pretty much entirely off the back of that Britt vs. Riho match. The second two with Rosa defending against Nyla and Jamie, less so. Riho and Jade are both pretty consistent TV draws, I believe, but I dunno who else is, if anybody. And like. I dunno how you solve this? Clearly, AEW's approach right now is, we're gonna do our one women's match per show, no more, no less, if that quarter hour dies, whatever. If they did more women's matches, would that just mean two quarter hours per show are sent out to die or would that signal that the division is something with more investment being put into it by the company and thus, worth caring about and not the part where you flip to GUY'S GROCERY GAMES? And uh, does AEW even have the depth in its women division to support the additional matches? I dunno the answer to the first question, but I think the answer to the second is probably not yes. MJeff fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 22:21
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What I can tell you definitively is that as soon as Britt cut that promo earlier this week on Dynamite, basically promising to interfere in the Rosa v. Storm match at All Out, any interest I had in that match died instantly. It's not a "grr, I hate you, heel, for I have been worked effectively, I hope I get to see you get your comeuppance" it's more of a "I don't want to see you on my screen, at all. Go away." Due to time zones and work, I rarely, if ever get to see Dynamite live, and every time Britt appears, I often end up tapping on the "skip 10s" button just to get past her segment. It's a serious issue with AEW, which other have pointed out - the women only ever seem to be motivated by titles. How many programmes have there been on the main show in which two (or more) women had a feud and a series of matches that didn't involve a title in any way? There was Shida and Deeb, TayJay vs Bunnylope, Big Swole and Diamante and, uh... Britt at one point was over a.f. Fair enough, no one is ever going to take that away from her, but if she needs to be featured on TV, at least put her in a feud that doesn't involve the title, while Rosa's title reign gets some breathing room away from her. And use her to get someone else over, for gently caress's sake. The audience is not going to give a poo poo about the women's roster, if you keep reinforcing to them that they're not worth giving a gently caress about. The Rosa title reign so far reminds me of Benoit in 2004 - he beats HHH (and HBK) in consecutive months, which appears to put a definitive end, at the time at least, to HHH's involvement in the main event scene, but ultimately, it was still all about HHH, whom, like the spectre at the feast, just wouldn't go away.
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Aug 20, 2022 23:49
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edogawa rando posted:It's a serious issue with AEW, which other have pointed out - the women only ever seem to be motivated by titles. How many programmes have there been on the main show in which two (or more) women had a feud and a series of matches that didn't involve a title in any way? ah, the Bechdel test glad the ratings thread has turned into the Britt Derangement Syndrome quarantine zone
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Aug 20, 2022 23:50
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:ah, the Bechdel test Well, I'm sorry the ratings thread discussion about the curious drop when the women are on, and possible causes and solutions is not progressing in a manner you approve of. Could you please provide a comprehensive, step-by-step set of instructions on how we can all approach the topic that meets your personal approval?
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Aug 21, 2022 00:55
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edogawa rando posted:There was Shida and Deeb, TayJay vs Bunnylope, Big Swole and Diamante and, uh... the kris/leyla thing was probably supposed to cumulate with kris' current look
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Aug 21, 2022 01:14
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Vertical Lime posted:the kris/leyla thing was probably supposed to cumulate with kris' current look Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that one. Shame about Leyla getting all hosed up. Still though, I still stand by my point that centring virtually all feuds and programmes on singles titles kind of makes it feel like there's really nothing worth caring about among the women. Compare that to, say, someone like Adam Cole. The majority of his feuds were about him being a weird, cranky rear end in a top hat to guys like Jungle Boy or Orange Cassidy, and it was months before he was even involved in a title feud.
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Aug 21, 2022 01:23
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I mean, Ruby/Tay over Tay being an rear end in a top hat and injuring her is currently happening.
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Aug 21, 2022 01:26
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I kinda think this thread should be used for more objective numbers based chat rather than like, subjective opinions on specific performers. Like if you think Britt sucks that's cool but if you're not going to bring some numbers to back up your opinion and tie it to a larger point it shouldn't be suited for this thread.
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Aug 21, 2022 01:29
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Pylons posted:I kinda think this thread should be used for more objective numbers based chat rather than like, subjective opinions on specific performers. Like if you think Britt sucks that's cool but if you're not going to bring some numbers to back up your opinion and tie it to a larger point it shouldn't be suited for this thread. +1 A deep analysis of a particular wrestler and how their quarters do over a wide lens could be very interesting and give us some insight into what wrestlers resonate with the TV watching audience and which ones don't. "I lost interest in this story because I don't like this wrestler." doesn't contribute much to the discussion of AEW's business as a whole. MJeff fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 01:30
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Pylons posted:I kinda think this thread should be used for more objective numbers based chat rather than like, subjective opinions on specific performers. Like if you think Britt sucks that's cool but if you're not going to bring some numbers to back up your opinion and tie it to a larger point it shouldn't be suited for this thread.
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Aug 21, 2022 02:02
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For someone that is smarter and more skilled than I, could a breakdown be done of the women in terms of how well they do in the ratings and somehow put that against how much time they get on tv because I feel like someone like Britt may have brought in big numbers initially but it’s been diminishing returns since.
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Aug 21, 2022 02:02
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Pylons posted:I kinda think this thread should be used for more objective numbers based chat rather than like, subjective opinions on specific performers. Like if you think Britt sucks that's cool but if you're not going to bring some numbers to back up your opinion and tie it to a larger point it shouldn't be suited for this thread. Sure. My beef is more with the manner in which the division is booked, and the frustration I feel regarding Britt Baker is more a symptom of that booking, which I feel makes the Women's World Title scene feel very stagnant. I think that is borne out in the manner in which segments featuring Britt Baker have consistently seen a significant dip in viewers, which speaks for itself. I know it's not fair to single out Britt Baker, but she is often the common denominator in these cases, and while segments that feature her aren't the only ones that have a dip in viewers, in some cases, it's more pronounced than others - case in point the Dynamite with the MJF "loving mark" promo, where her segment lost a significantly higher number of viewers in the 18~49 demo. edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 02:05
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TV Zombie posted:For someone that is smarter and more skilled than I, could a breakdown be done of the women in terms of how well they do in the ratings and somehow put that against how much time they get on tv because I feel like someone like Britt may have brought in big numbers initially but it’s been diminishing returns since. Well, the big asterisk whenever it comes to discussing the women division and ratings is that Q7, the quarter that tends to have the women's match, also tends to have a full no-PiP commercial break, various odds and ends like other pretapes and Excalibur's weekly 47 upcoming matches speed read. So that quarter's kinda gonna suck no matter what. There's only so much we can do without minute-by-minutes, which aren't publicly released. That makes it difficult to make a wide-reaching analysis of the division. If I was gonna do that, I'd probably look specifically at built, important matches, title matches, feud enders, etc.
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Aug 21, 2022 02:20
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All this poo poo really makes me think maybe Japan has it right. If there were two promotions, All Elite Wrestling, and Elite Women's Wrestling, and you genuinely tried your best to promote both as well as possible, and did cross-over matches for the main PPVs, you couldn't really blame Tony about however well the women's promotion did.
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Aug 21, 2022 03:53
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If I may speak from a slightly (but not entirely) pessimistic perspective, I would say that right now AEW are in a place where success is going to be measured more by retention than growth. The in-built advantages of WWE's 40 years of brand recognition (they're literally synonymous with wrestling in common public parlance - people use the term interchangably) meant that the WWE product being unwatchable was AEW's way in. There SHOULDN'T have been an opening for a second nationally televised company, and Vince is the only reason there was. If it even remains okay after the honeymoon period is over and Hunter "runs out of pops" that means being as big as the Fed is out of the question. (It almost certainly always was, but it definitively is with WWE making fewer unforced errors). They'd be well served to keep the audience they have (which is a good-sized audience), weather the Hunter honeymoon by keeping Number where it is right now, and hopefully leverage that into a better deal. maruhkati fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 22:18
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El Generico posted:All this poo poo really makes me think maybe Japan has it right. If there were two promotions, All Elite Wrestling, and Elite Women's Wrestling, and you genuinely tried your best to promote both as well as possible, and did cross-over matches for the main PPVs, you couldn't really blame Tony about however well the women's promotion did. Yeah, but decades of women's wrestling being treated as weird fetish material and second thoughts ruined that. That and big wrestling companies in the US are pretty much built entirely on TV deals for profit, and a separate women's company would probably run straight into the NBA/WNBA problem when it came time to get one.
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Aug 24, 2022 00:54
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UFC having a women's division that can also draw means it's probably even more difficult to make a separate Women's company. AEW does need to get its Women's talent more work either by booking them for indies or getting them on Japan shows
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Aug 24, 2022 00:57
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maruhkati posted:If I may speak from a slightly (but not entirely) pessimistic perspective, I would say that right now AEW are in a place where success is going to be measured more by retention than growth. The in-built advantages of WWE's 40 years of brand recognition (they're literally synonymous with wrestling in common public parlance - people use the term interchangably) meant that the WWE product being unwatchable was AEW's way in. There SHOULDN'T have been an opening for a second nationally televised company, and Vince is the only reason there was. If it even remains okay after the honeymoon period is over and Hunter "runs out of pops" that means being as big as the Fed is out of the question. (It almost certainly always was, but it definitively is with WWE making fewer unforced errors). For a couple years, it seemed like AEW would one day get ahead of WWE just by virtue of WWE falling under them while AEW stayed the same, but the Peacock deal seemed to lead to some stabilization for WWE's viewership and now with Triple Paul miraculously fixing everything, their ratings are actually kinda holding well at a level above where Vince was. The days of AEW being able to sneak ahead of Raw in a few demos here and there are definitely over. So yeah, it's more about just being stable and trying to find steady growth where you can.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:42
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I've noticed people keep saying AEW's ratings are 25% down. That doesn't seem to be even remotely true, though. Does anyone know what the source for that is?
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Aug 24, 2022 19:01
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El Generico posted:I've noticed people keep saying AEW's ratings are 25% down. That doesn't seem to be even remotely true, though. Does anyone know what the source for that is? Their 18-49 is down about 25%, yeah. They were doing low-mid .40s this time last year and right now they're doing low-mid .30s.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:05
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MJeff posted:Their 18-49 is down about 25%, yeah. They were doing low-mid .40s this time last year and right now they're doing low-mid .30s. https://wrestletalk.com/stats/aew-dynamite-tv-ratings-2022/ If this is accurate, that seems to sometimes be true and sometimes not. EDIT: No, yeah, it is, you're right, I'm just bad at numbers. El Generico fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:15
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i just want riho to be champ again
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Aug 24, 2022 19:49
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JOHN CENA posted:i just want Shida to be champ again
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Aug 24, 2022 19:58
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JOHN CENA posted:i just want Britt Baker D M D to be champ again
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Aug 24, 2022 20:34
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JOHN CENA posted:i just want Maki Ito to be champ
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Aug 24, 2022 20:42
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This is the Number thread, you all want whoever does the best ratings to be champ.  Which means the women's champ should be Cody.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:50
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IIRC, Shida and Riho are big ratings draws. Also The Bunny, for some reason.
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Aug 24, 2022 22:31
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edogawa rando posted:IIRC, Shida and Riho are big ratings draws. Also The Bunny, for some reason. Shida and Riho have gotten an inexplicably raw deal in terms of air time and push. Hoping that that gets addressed in the last quarter of the year but not really believing it will be.
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Aug 25, 2022 00:19
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NUMBER. https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1562892075993300992     Rest of the show did what it did but it's difficult to view doing Mox/Punk on TV as anything but an unambiguous massive success. All Out would have to have do some pretty lovely buys for that to not turn out to have been a really good idea.
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Aug 26, 2022 00:47
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Britt haters in the mud.
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Aug 26, 2022 00:54
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PiP in the mud
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Aug 26, 2022 01:16
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https://twitter.com/wrestlepurists/status/1563134785584709634 "Tony, cut the poo poo!"
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Aug 26, 2022 14:45
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The pussy shirt was probably the line
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Aug 26, 2022 14:57
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The second Jungle Boy said pussy on TV, I got bad vibes. 
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Aug 26, 2022 15:04
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MJeff posted:Their 18-49 is down about 25%, yeah. They were doing low-mid .40s this time last year and right now they're doing low-mid .30s. How is that compared to the rest of cable in the demo?
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Aug 26, 2022 16:56
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No idea, if you really wanted to figure it out, Showbuzz has a Wednesdays tag. I can poke at it a little when I'm not at work.
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Aug 26, 2022 17:00
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MJeff posted:No idea, if you really wanted to figure it out, Showbuzz has a Wednesdays tag. I can poke at it a little when I'm not at work. I would be curious to know. I've heard say that cable in general is down around the same amount, but I don't know if that's legitimate.
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Aug 26, 2022 20:53
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I figure this is relevant to post here because it seems the WON news note was taken out of context.quote:Fightful/Grapsody's Will Washington has learned some significant details around the relationship between Warner Bros. Discovery and All Elite Wrestling.
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Aug 26, 2022 22:05
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