AEW Business & Ratings: Now is the Quarter-Hour Seven of our Discontent

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > AEW Business & Ratings: Now is the Quarter-Hour Seven of our Discontent

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SatoshiMiwa: May 6, 2007

For both the Forbidden Door and Wrestle Dream Collision I was too scared/Lazy to move up even though both got very empty as ROH tapings went on

# ? Nov 23, 2023 01:16

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# ? May 3, 2024 02:21

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

SatoshiMiwa posted:

For both the Forbidden Door and Wrestle Dream Collision I was too scared/Lazy to move up even though both got very empty as ROH tapings went on

You definitely could have for the FD Collision a bunch of people were doing it. We didn't because it was nice to chill in an empty area and just shoot the poo poo while we watched weird ROH vs New Japan matches.

# ? Nov 23, 2023 03:18

SatoshiMiwa: May 6, 2007

MassRafTer posted:

You definitely could have for the FD Collision a bunch of people were doing it. We didn't because it was nice to chill in an empty area and just shoot the poo poo while we watched weird ROH vs New Japan matches.

I was the only one popping for House of Torture in my section so I had to stay

# ? Nov 23, 2023 04:57

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; Can't post for 3 hours!

Ganso Bomb posted:

I don't know anything about business or whatever, but I am mildly curious as to how the strategy of selling fewer tickets for more money per ticket works against selling more tickets for less money per ticket. Does it all just even out at some point? Are dollar numbers up despite crowd numbers for TV (and this sad ROH PPV) being down? It's easy to sit at home and say you wished they sold tickets cheaper so you could have larger crowds on TV each week because it just looks better, but does it work out that way financially?

Capitalism trends to a few at the top having all the money. Why bother trying to convince a million people to like your stuff enough to pay a dollar when you can find one person to give you a million? We're seeing it with Saudi and everything being focused on getting cities and networks as the consumer, not regular people.

You raise good questions. I dunno if it's better or worse to raise or lower prices, especially to get a hotter tv show. Does it even matter? WBD just makes movies now to throw them in a vault and make money from weird tax breaks. We don't much matter to the bottom line anymore.

# ? Nov 24, 2023 06:07

SatoshiMiwa: May 6, 2007

Speaking of ticket sales this weeks Observer noted that a lot of recent WWE events have weak advances as a lot of buyers know they can wait for the final week and get good deals so it does feel like the average buyer has caught on to the current ticket selling scheme. Unless you really want ringside or front row it's probably best to wait for the final 2 weeks of sales

# ? Nov 24, 2023 19:40

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

https://twitter.com/WrestleTix/status/1728903371652817038 Another 4k, possibly 5k attendance for Dynamite this week.

# ? Nov 27, 2023 08:26

Red is Dead: Apr 28, 2008; The great and devious UltraMantis Black hides from no man, woman, beast, or unearthly spirit.

Just seen the pre-sale prices - floor seats now 4 times what I got in august.

Seats in the north east corner level 1, priced at twice what I got for floor seats.

Yeah - sorry, cant afford tickets at that price to watch a video wall. That's a shame.

# ? Nov 27, 2023 10:13

Kaveman: Jul 25, 2009; NEVER!!!

Only getting seats in the east stand (opposite entrance) for the same price point as last year. I don't fancy biting for that going to wait see what else gets released.

Same area as last year looks like it's 50 quid more at least.

Edit: ah gently caress it I bit. Found the same seats I had last year and they were 200 quid (80 last year but that was behind the stage).
114 row 9. We go again.

Kaveman fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Nov 27, 2023

# ? Nov 27, 2023 10:27

PASS THE MASH: Oct 30, 2013

Wrestletix has the presale at around 27000 sold so far. Down from last year at the same time about 16k, but setup/time out are obviously different.

# ? Nov 29, 2023 04:36

Barry Bluejeans: Feb 2, 2017; ATTENTHUN THITIZENTH

seems fine given the competition

# ? Nov 29, 2023 20:39

SatoshiMiwa: May 6, 2007

Not bad given Survivor Series but Tony really should start booking and promoting a big match against the WWE shows

# ? Nov 29, 2023 20:58

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

Dave wrote a lot of words about numbers.

quote:

2024 would be in line to perform better than this past year.

There will be more PPV shows and Collision will be weekly for the entire year rather than just under seven months, meaning higher rights fees for the year, and more live events generated more live gates. While it is not known what the new television deal revenues are that started with the advent of Collision and run through the end of 2024 (when all the shows are up for renewal), it was known that the original Dynamite deal where 2024 was the option year that WBD picked up, called for a significant raise in the annual Dynamite compensation from the 2020-2023 years

Ultimately the key to AEW being profitable, wildly profitable or perhaps not profitable in 2025 is largely based on the size of the next deal, that would be signed sometime over the next several months. Based on the television landscape, where AEW�s momentum is where WBD finances are and what they are willing to spend, and if other suitors come into the picture, there are so many variables in play

The keys to this years growth was more PPV shows, Wembley, which by itself generated about $16 million of company revenue between the live gate, PPV and merchandise, not even including sponsorships. There was the video game revenue, and that�s a revenue stream that won�t be there in 2024. Wembley is likely not going to be as big attendance wise this year, but ticket prices are higher, in some cases much higher, and the early advance is very strong. Officially tickets go on sale to the public on 12/1. The press time estimate were close to 29,000 tickets for a show next August. As far as tickets sold so far ahead of time, it�s probably the biggest ever and when the first-day advance number is out, it�s likely to top all but the biggest WrestleManias and the two Wembley Stadium events. It is ahead of the 2022 Clash at the Castle pace, and with this many months out, even before tickets go on sale to the public it appears the show will be a major success
With the higher ticket prices they won�t need nearly as many tickets to equal last year�s gate and it�s ten months away, and I don�t think even Manias were put on sale this far out. Right now it is already the fourth largest ticket sales event ever in the U.K. and could already be on pace for the largest gate ever, if not the second largest.

The All in PPV is unlikely to be as big, because the big draw this year was seeing AEW before a giant stadium crowd for the first time, more than any matches or angles. It won�t quite as much this year, unless the year of hype leads to All In being viewed as the WrestleMania show of the year and they have a more attractive card for the PPV viewer. But equaling this year�s 200,000 number would be difficult.

The year will also have roughly 28 more television taping events with a full year of Collision, which would in theory also lead to higher merchandise numbers. There will also be more PPV shows. I don�t see where 60 or 70 percent growth would continue, but there should be significant growth not even factoring in the escalators in the television deal, details of which are not public. As far as expenses, obviously 28 more television tapings greatly adds expenses as do more PPV shows, but PPV shows are always profitable.

There were also start-up costs this year associated with Collision that won�t be there in 2024, and we�re told due to first-time costs, that Wembley�s expense will be lower this year overall, although the setting up costs will be higher due to having to rush to set up due to the Taylor Swift concert just days before the show.
Salaries will also be up even if they don�t sign a lot of new people, and obviously they will sign some, and one would expect top talent with contracts due in at least some cases to get raises, especially those who could go to WWE.

A key aspect of the big AEW growth is the effect on the WWE lawsuit. When MLW filed the suit, they believed WWE had a 92 percent market share. The 90 percent threshold can be considered a key number in monopsony arguments. But now it looks like WWE�s actual market share for this year would be closer to 80 percent, which is actually beneficial to the company in the suit. The key to that suit is still proving that WWE used its power to hinder growth of other companies, notably MLW.

In estimating revenues, we would go with $18 million or more from television taping and house show tickets and another $4 million from merchandise. Live gates from the non-London PPV shows would be about $6 million. PPV revenue from the non-London shows would be $14 million. All In revenue would be $16.5 million. So that�s $58.5 million meaning about $111.5 million to $116.5 million would consist of worldwide media rights, sponsorships, television ad splits, licensing and video game revenue.

The video game revenue is the one that won�t be duplicated next year and is harder to figure in. Live events will increase to roughly 102 next year so let�s go with $23 million, or up $5 million there. Go with an additional $1 million in merchandise. Let�s say ten PPVs next year, and take out London and go with nine at 130,000 buys each so $25.5 million there and $7.2 million in PPV gates. So last year�s $58.5 million would in 2024 estimated to go up to $60.7. London is harder because attendance will be down but the gate may be up. But we�ll go with the idea of a very conservative of a 25 percent increase in price per ticket and 55,000 paid, which given the advance would be about the target so $8.6 million, $800,000 in merch and $3.5 million from PPV so we get to $73.6 million from, or an expected 26 percent increase in traditional event delivered revenue while costs will also be up from running about 23 more events and larger salaries.

The television rights fees will likely be up based on 52 weeks of Collision plus a significant increase in the option year and international that even without the video game revenue a $190 million to $200 million figure for 2024 would be there even if no streaming deal comes into play and things like sponsorships don�t increase, and they probably will.

# ? Dec 1, 2023 15:32

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

e. too slow

e2. Well, let's include this part from the beginning:

quote:

In a year where the perception of AEW has certainly gone down, as have key business metrics like live average attendances at most shows, and television ratings, particularly for the weekend shows, it was also a year of major revenue growth.

AEW is expected to finish the year grossing $170 million to $175 million in revenue, a figure higher than most anticipated, particularly since 2022 was the first year to hit $100 million, and barely topped that figure.

Where the final number stands will be based on what end up being the final numbers for the All Out through Worlds End PPVs as well as where the company�s cut of the television ad revenue winds up, as AEW, unlike WWE, does get a cut of the ad revenue from the three television shows.

The obvious next question has to do with profitability and nobody who has actual knowledge has spoken on it. The fact nobody has would make one question if they did turn a profit even with 62 to 67 percent revenue growth in a year. Those internally have argued that they believe the perception from the outside that AEW is a declining company is a massive disconnect, citing the huge increase in revenue and that they are so far ahead as an overall business from where they were at the start of 2023 and that the year overall has to be called a massive success, particularly the second half of the year.

Kennel fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Dec 1, 2023

# ? Dec 1, 2023 15:33

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

aew is weeks away from collapsing

# ? Dec 1, 2023 16:24

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

I'm doing what I want, I'm pulling the plug, I'm killing AEW

# ? Dec 1, 2023 18:05

Hirez: Feb 3, 2003; Weber scored 49 points?

we had a good 4 years guys

# ? Dec 2, 2023 06:58

CHaKKaWaKka: Aug 6, 2001; I've chosen my next victim. Cry tears of joy it's not you!

I put too much money where my mouth is and now AEW is overflowing with mouth money

# ? Dec 2, 2023 21:12

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

CHaKKaWaKka posted:

I put too much money where my mouth is and now AEW is overflowing with mouth money

yummy yummy yummy got mouth money in tummy

# ? Dec 2, 2023 21:21

Most Power Alex: Sep 2, 2023

Everytime something cool happens in the ring my pupils turn into AEW symbols and coins fall out of my mouth like a slot machine. I should really have this checked out by a doctor as this is always accompanied by blood and headaches but Collision is on tonight what can I do.

# ? Dec 2, 2023 22:42

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

Kennel posted:

e. too slow

e2. Well, let's include this part from the beginning:

> Per WON, people in WWE think Warner Bros. Discovery is a longshot for Raw�s next TV deal because WBD is believed to own a percentage of AEW. It sounds like WWE CEO Nick Khan made a pitch to WBD in October but �was turned down.�

# ? Dec 2, 2023 22:56

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

post hole digger posted:

> Per WON, people in WWE think Warner Bros. Discovery is a longshot for Raw�s next TV deal because WBD is believed to own a percentage of AEW. It sounds like WWE CEO Nick Khan made a pitch to WBD in October but �was turned down.�

Tony has flatly denied WBD owns a percentage of AEW.

# ? Dec 3, 2023 02:44

Kvantum: Feb 5, 2006; Skee-entist

MassRafTer posted:

Tony has flatly denied WBD owns a percentage of AEW.

I can't recall - has he ever denied that David Zaslav owns a percentage?

# ? Dec 3, 2023 02:55

MJeff: Jun 2, 2011; THE LIAR

Why would Zaslav own a percentage, he didn't work for Warner when AEW was being created.

# ? Dec 3, 2023 03:50

Kvantum: Feb 5, 2006; Skee-entist

MJeff posted:

Why would Zaslav own a percentage, he didn't work for Warner when AEW was being created.

With all of the crazy, unprecedented poo poo Zaslav has pulled as CEO for WBD, I wouldn't put it past him.

# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:11

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

MJeff posted:

Why would Zaslav own a percentage, he didn't work for Warner when AEW was being created.

Wrestlers are loving stupid.

# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:13

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; Can't post for 3 hours!

MassRafTer posted:

Tony has flatly denied WBD owns a percentage of AEW.

Didn't he kinda dodge the question at the presser and just talked about how he's open to all kinda of options as long as he stays the ultimate decision maker?

# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:41

STING 64: Oct 20, 2006

1glitch0 posted:

Didn't he kinda dodge the question at the presser and just talked about how he's open to all kinda of options as long as he stays the ultimate decision maker?

he said he is the sole owner

# ? Dec 3, 2023 04:57

lomzus: Mar 18, 2009

https://twitter.com/WrestleTix/status/1730726363076722754

# ? Dec 6, 2023 18:54

Malikov: Jan 25, 2015

The hubris is took to book a building that size lol. It's still ROH and they still don't have proper TV.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:11

IcePhoenix: Sep 18, 2005; Take me to your Shida

Malikov posted:

The hubris is took to book a building that size lol. It's still ROH and they still don't have proper TV.

Or a proper roster.

The card also only has three matches announced right now and we already know there won't be a world title match because it's in the C2.

If it wasn't for Athena they might not even have sold half as many tickets as they have right now.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:23

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Malikov posted:

The hubris is took to book a building that size lol. It's still ROH and they still don't have proper TV.

Not really hubris to book the same building two years in a row for Final Battle. Doing that many shows in the market at once and probably higher ticket prices, probably hubris.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:27

The Taxman: Jan 2, 2007; greetings sweeties, let me give you a back massage. for i am a whiz!

MassRafTer posted:

Not really hubris to book the same building two years in a row for Final Battle. Doing that many shows in the market at once and probably higher ticket prices, probably hubris.

2 days in the venue in a row was a bad idea

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:39

JUNGLE BOY: Sep 23, 2019

it�s time to end the ROH experiment

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:46

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

lomzus posted:

https://twitter.com/WrestleTix/status/1730726363076722754

Maybe if they hadn't tripled ticket prices this wouldn't be an issue, ignoring the lack of matches and Eddie not defending the belt of course

# ? Dec 6, 2023 20:01

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; Can't post for 3 hours!

Sir Tonk posted:

Maybe if they hadn't tripled ticket prices this wouldn't be an issue, ignoring the lack of matches and Eddie not defending the belt of course

Promoting ROH stars is a good idea, having the ROH stars just being on AEW probably isn't. I see enough ROH title defenses on AEW, why would I buy an ROH ppv?

# ? Dec 6, 2023 20:19

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

1glitch0 posted:

Promoting ROH stars is a good idea, having the ROH stars just being on AEW probably isn't. I see enough ROH title defenses on AEW, why would I buy an ROH ppv?

They're very good.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 20:29

SatoshiMiwa: May 6, 2007

Would be nice to have a full card to help promote it!

Or I guess call in Mistico and give him a big time match

# ? Dec 6, 2023 21:07

MJeff: Jun 2, 2011; THE LIAR

# ? Dec 6, 2023 22:27

blunt: Jul 7, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CBDLyGp1WQ

The whole video is an interesting breakdown of AEW's financials based on known-deals and estimates, but the clickbaity headline that everybody's been running with is that Wrestlenomics estimates AEW lost ~$37m this year on ~$154m of revenue.

# ? Dec 19, 2023 15:43

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# ? May 3, 2024 02:21

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

Dave tweeted yesterday he was told from a source directly in AEW it's closer to $175m in revenue.

# ? Dec 19, 2023 17:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > AEW Business & Ratings: Now is the Quarter-Hour Seven of our Discontent

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