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cursedshitbox posted:Ok this city is cool as gently caress. Rolled through the musueums of fine art, the zoo, wandered public transit, almost got involved in a naked bike ride, etc. I know The Flaming Lips had a naked bike ride in one of their music videos - any clue if it was done out that way? I can't imagine there's too many naked bike rides around, and I seem to remember it being done in the PNW. It's a complete PITA to find a decent quality version these days, but  there's a 240p version on Vimeo (used to be a 1080p version, but the link I had bookmarked is gone now)That lifted CB Accord is  , that gently caress It Therapy book is now on its way to me too. That's a fantastic looking 720.
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Oct 17, 2022 01:47
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This was through like urban cores and less out in the sticks. It was to quote the local reddit "keeps Portland weird". anchors down, ready to do the deeds the shop didn't do.   Alright for this next bit I'm gonna draw on a few images from the old truck thread. The BorgWarner 1356 uses standard boring roller bearings, preload on the flange nut doesn't matter a lot. In the rear housing off at the bottom right of the photo you'll see the roller bearing.  That rides on the stubby shaft on the left. The nut that holds the flange on? yeah it's been knocked free.  But as you see. It won't hurt anything. So I just torque it back down to 2/3 of a hernia till I can get a proper torque wrench on it. The sterling 10.25? It's a different animal. Differential pinions use tapered roller bearings and *something* to set the preload between them to keep the bearings happy. Ford used what's called a crush sleeve. Torque the pinion nut down to the predetermined specification and it figures everything else out. I replaced it with a stack of shims because the pinion nut has a penchant for backing off and the sleeve doesn't take side loading all that well. The shim stack and its housing is the shiny pieces of machined metal in this photo, the crush sleeve is the filthy oily thing adjacent to it on the shop towel.  The spare shims, are what's in storage. I find the pinion nut loose, and when I torque it back down, there's too much preload. This will ruin the bearings and subsequently the differential in a hurry. I left the nut loose and called it good. Since I've still a mailbox in Bend, I ordered the parts to build up another shim kit and will point the nose in that general direction. There's an ACE in Sisters I need to visit anyway to get a 12pt 12mm wrench and a properly sized torque wrench for this and the springs. To get us there, I wrapped an imperial 12pt wrench in a shop towel, and canted it off center to get a good bite on the bolts. You do what you need to in the field. Props to the company that I used to build this driveline. They said if I could break it they'd fix it free of charge. The custom turned flange and the driveline itself, survived this adventure. Of course it gets rowdy when the neighbors are pouring fireball so it's time to fuckoff.  Waypoint near RoundLake Oregon.  This is where I pulled the ujoint down to inspect it and check the differential. Pulling grades the diff oil temps stayed under 200F so eh, send it.  Doesn't look like its eating itself.  Topping off the diff without a fluid pump using the abs sensor hole as the fill port.  We're parked here as it's on the absolute fringe of cell reception. Nice spot at least.    Went out for a gravel ride and noticed south of the christian camp the traffic upticked by a lot in a short amount of time. Got dusted out several times by people flying by which was pretty rude. The dust here is extremely fine and very sticky. Camper headed to the campground just south of me but where there's no cell reception.  Then OHP shows up.  The gently caress? This is twenty miles down a primitive rutted hosed up fire road, why the hell are you here bothering me. Litany of questions. The truck, its camper, us, why we're there, how long we've been there, when we're leaving, where we're from, etc. Oh you're techbros? Eyes glaze the hell over, have a nice day, bye. Cool. gently caress your state. I was vehemently pissed about it then. Still pretty sour about it over a year later. This was the one and only cop interaction on the entire trip. Back towards Sisters I find yet another cool old van. Sheesh this might as well be the 'csb and old vans' thread.  In transit the latching system for the pantry broke and wouldn't unlock.  The latch pin bent.  It's a royal pain in the rear end to work on this mechanism. Especially with the pantry loaded down.  Some breakfast.  More riding on the COTA trail network.  A dead Ford Explorer. Did not find this one on the road dead.  The smoke catches us yet again.  And a field mouse found a home in my truck. This truck has had a history of being a rodent condo. Not this time.  The required shim parts have arrived in Bend, I'll swing through there then finally get the hell outta this region of Oregon after six ish weeks.
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Oct 19, 2022 18:02
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gently caress Oregon cops, man. I've never had a good interaction with one, especially out in the rurals. Looking forward to the rest of your journey!
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Oct 19, 2022 18:14
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Can't say I've had a good time with any cop. It was BLM land with the standard 14 day allowable stay. Was there for three days and I hosed off the next morning. No thanks. Pretty sure camp christ called us in.
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Oct 19, 2022 18:21
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cursedshitbox posted:I've always wanted one. Small funfact here, if covid and 2020 didn't happen I was kinda planning to sell the truck or trade it for a 4wd toyota van/hiace/delica star wagon. Yeah they're nifty little vehicles. I won't let the haters complain they can't go above 45 mph dissuade me if I ever can afford one, I can get anywhere I need to go on back roads. And another good one in the latest post. Also love the Evergreen picks! You should check out the Pima Air and Space Museum outside of Tucson if you haven't yet, and maybe even set up a tour of the boneyards. Both are good.
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Oct 19, 2022 20:03
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I'm picturing the next bus having a deployable 4wd camper van like a star trek shuttle. Complete with shaking camera effects and alarm noises whenever something breaks. Still looks like an awesome trip despite the trouble.
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Oct 20, 2022 12:46
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Rick posted:Also love the Evergreen picks! You should check out the Pima Air and Space Museum outside of Tucson if you haven't yet, and maybe even set up a tour of the boneyards. Both are good. This sounds really dangerous since I'm payload limited and I'm pretty sure my husband wouldn't say no to me dragging home a half dead APU or a CFM56 for that matter. SpeedFreek posted:I'm picturing the next bus having a deployable 4wd camper van like a star trek shuttle. Complete with shaking camera effects and alarm noises whenever something breaks.  4wd bus that drops an aerostar or dustbuster van.Not gonna lie I have dirty for turning a front engine wanderlodge into a six by six. There's one on RVTrader now that's an 'ok' candidate. It hinges on having a shop to do it in. Garbage class land is a joke right now, with 90 thousand for almost an acre with septic and a cement pad. The troubles can be fun. Working on poo poo is cathartic for me.... most of the time. So far things have been pretty reasonable. Once I get into the midwest is when this fucker stabs me in the side and starts putting the hurt on me and it doesn't let up.
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Oct 20, 2022 16:33
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Wandered one last time through Bend to pick up supplies then head for the Washington border. Getting LP topped off at Uhaul. With smoke means reduced solar. Good thing I kept the generator.  Making friends with Discovery IIs  And we're off! With the intense headwinds the truck wants to do about 55 and not much more.  We're arrive to a place called The Dalles. There's numerous people camping out here and windsurfing. Would be awesome to take this up someday.  Rode to the dam and back. it's quite huge. There's docks near the riverside for the natives to fish from.  Cool FWD GM RV. These run independent air rear suspension, a 455 big block and a chain driven TH425 from the Eldorado/Toronado platform. They have a cult like following.  Then there's this econoline using every ounce of its ability to tow ten thousand pounds.  It wouldn't be a transit day without something breaking. A total rebuild of the locking mechanism is required. Using a crimp ferrule to reinforce the wood and a wheeled robot axle made from tool steel a new locking pin is built. The gearbox moves around too much, a 3D printed housing is printed and screwd into place.  This all needs a minute for the glue to set. Which means the camper looks like this. The pantry swallows a lot of food.  I've had this gripe with the mountain bikes obscuring the left rear tail light. Especially when I have the bike cover on which means I can't use the bike cover while under transit. I took the mount apart and moved it higher one rung.  That's better. While faffing about with rv accessories designed by first year graphic design interns some kids were being kids and shot the coach with a bb gun. Right in one of the electroplated windows. The largest one. Somehow it didn't shatter. That would have been a solid $1500 fix if not more. My spouse got their parents involved, we all had a chat about it. His parents were ex military and pretty cool about the whole thing. After this we decided to move closer to the water since most of the people had cleared out. Bunk windows have kinda gone away as they're maintenance intensive. I'm fine with that.    Post swim beers.  Dam looks gorgeous with the ambient lighting as the sun drops over the horizion.   The bus behind the blue and yellow one wouldn't start the next morning. Guy thought batteries were dead so he asked us for a jump. 7.3 Powerstroke. Neutral safety switch or something near it is playing up. Battery voltage is good, all its various systems power up as required during key on engine off. Yeah here's how you jumper the starter relay and get it running. Key on, gear in park. It immediately lights off. Success. The next morning I roll the shades up to find a mammoth parked next to me. We hit it off.  The rearmost door on their rig? It hides a crane and a fuckin dual sport motorcycle. They're from Brazil. With a custom built truck that they put together. It's an ex Brazilian VW Worker with a MWM engine, 5 speed, and Marmon-Herrington awd hardware. The military ordered them then didn't pay the bill so they were sold off to the public. They bought it and had a German refrigerated truck box company build the box for it. They've taken it across the Americas. They were as curious about our rig as us about theirs.  They didn't have a winch and were wondering about which one to get and what size and the like. Then came lithium and generators and modern MPPT controllers. Got to fly their DJI drone (and get the above photo). Holy poo poo have those things been refined. I'm used to flying bare metal drones where you have to manually keep track of which way is forward and do all the transforms yourself. This fucker is like a video game. While we're chatting after dusk a giant class-A comes in driving kinda lost like, slowly and stopping often, swings nearby to us, makes a U-turn, and sinks it up to the axles in the sand bar behind us. I couldn't pass the opportunity to pull em out since I infact do have a winch onboard. They were in a panic about the whole thing thinking they'd need a large tow truck. Haha nah. My antique probably weighs more than the class-A, don't sweat it, we'll help you.  After these adventures we're ready to part ways with Oregon since it's pushing triple digit temps outside. Our brazilian acquaintances jetted south and east, we're going north. Dropped by The Hub Brewery. The bike frames above the bar is awesome.    We arrive to literally the side of Mount St Everest.   The snowmelt is still draining off and a solid mid 30s in temps. It is loving cold. I dunked in it several times.  The forest here is dense with bushes that produce berries, but not very many berries. There's also a fair bit of bear scat around. The berries are delicious though. The generator no longer wants to charge. It'll start and run, it's generating power, but the power isn't making it to the transfer switch or the Victron. gently caress. And the batteries are low. One of these crimps went bad. This is not our handy work. We've never done anything in this bay.  Got that fixed with the supplies we had on board, it's back to topping off batteries. As the sun goes down for the evening some people park right on top of us and wander off into the woods.  That evening, we start smelling smoke. Strong. Smoke. gently caress. gently caress gently caress gently caress time to get outta here. Walk outside, and it's our intrepid explorers have set a bonfire during a fire ban, next to a bunch of driftwood.  Hiked over, informed them of the fire ban and they have a very short window to put that poo poo out before it gets called in to the local station. They oblige. We hosed off to yet another spot before they had the chance to burn our poo poo down. Washington's back country is stunningly beautiful. There'd be no way a class-A is getting back here. At one point I had to navigate around a boulder at least three feet in diameter while also driving precariously close to a cliff edge that would roll us down several hundred feet. I do not like this kind of thing. At. All. Some partially downed trees meant clearing trails to make it into the backwoods.        But as our luck would have it. Despite looking peaceful, it's not. We're next to a major trail network and there's a hiking endurance race going on. Which turns into a missing persons search. Someone woke us up yelling in the canyons at around 0700 hours. We meet up with them, they seem spastic as hell and kind of off. We helped out for a couple hours before calling it quits. This area is densely overgrown and there is hostile wildlife.  One of the issues the camper has is that it can slide forward and backward on the truck. It'll actually rip the tie downs out if I'm not careful. It slides backwards on steep rocky climbs, and back forward descending. This mass shift can really screw with the truck and cause it to jolt and bounce. This is bad if I'm running near its tipping point. TCers get around this with a horse stall mat. Those fuckers are like 1" thick rubber and weigh a lot. This truck has a 5th wheel and there's a hole for it. we can add some lumber to the bottom of the camper to interlock it with the 5th wheel plate and it'll stay put. Like so.  From there we head to the Goose Egg Sno Park.  The river is cold of course. I didn't get a chance to dunk in this one. The guy in the camp next to us is having a moment. We're pretty frazzled and over Washington at this point. In the span of 5 days we've found someone trying to burn the forest down, a missing person's search, and now someone going full methy in the forest. The smoke caught up to us too. The AQI is north of 200.     Sun setting and peeking below the smoke layer.  Ok we're going to jump on I90 and try and outrun the smoke, whatever it takes.
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Oct 21, 2022 17:39
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Really enjoying your travelogue. And the bad times you have remind me that there's no way I'd make it two weeks living the hashtag van life, no matter how many cool van conversion videos youtube tries to get me to watch. Also, cursedshitbox posted:We're arrive to a place called The Dalles. There's numerous people camping out here and windsurfing. Would be awesome to take this up someday.
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Oct 22, 2022 06:37
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It certainly has its moments. I think IG and social media way over play this lifestyle. I went back and forth on writing this thread for months, well, a year as I didn't want it to be yet another IG like wonderfest where it's all just smooth sailing and awesome parking spots. This lifestyle only works because he and I make it work. In this phase of the trip that I'm writing about today there's some external family drama going on that's not conveyed here. That added to the already growing mass of stress with the vehicle itself. One of the things I read about from veteran fulltimers all the time is never travel too far, too fast, or too often. Little hops and staying put are key. Otherwise it wears you down, wears the rig down, and it will wear your finances like no other. Getting in a hurry is ripe for breaking something. This is where we get in a big goddamn hurry. We're talking two ish days of five and six hundred mile days in the seat. Climbing a grade I tagged behind this bobtail semi with more bodyroll than my rig. Not sure what they had for power but it wasn't a lot if I'm keeping up.  Someone's getting a new engine today.  And someone else, a dumptruck's worth of sand.  Then there's idiots you share the road with.  Montana is a cool little state. It's the kinda place where you're a billionaire or you're working at their theme park. It's an exceptionally gorgeous state. But you'd need a solid remote job or be independently wealthy to live here. Idaho was a blink, went through the panhandle. Wallace is a town I'd like to go back and spend some time in. Has some Gold Rush vibes, so much so to preserve the city the freeway is raised above it and chiseled into the mountain. Getting some 5 guys in my mouth in Missoula and it starts absolute dumping rain.  To get to our camping spot meant hours of backroads then fire roads. We're camping within 50 miles of the Canadian border. The rutted busted fire roads shredded one of the tiedowns in the process. The one corner we didn't heavily reinforce. The porpoising of the camper took its toll on the retention systems and well it's just anchored into luan anyway.   In a moment of lukewarm intelligence I reconfigured the tiedown to use the jack mount to attach the camper. This will get us to camp, and at least a parts store so that the tiedown can be anchored better.  Spoiler: there is no better solution as this worked entirely too well. This is where we're spending the week.  While here, I'm loving with glow plug power connectors again.  Due to the rains a temp seal of kapton tape is applied to the side of the camper to prevent water ingress.  To repair the corner the frame needs to be pulled back into shape, then we'll epoxy the poo poo out of it all with fresh wood to reinforce the area. Note that most everything required is onboard. This is why the rig is so heavy. I don't have West Systems with me but I do have various two part epoxies. Fine enough, it's better than anything Elkhart, IN has ever squirted out on a piece of cardboard.   The frame in place and epoxied.  The water heater and such can't come out so we're doing all of this through the electrical connection hatch. Topside with reinforcement.  Screws back in, mostly back in line with where it belongs.  Put the white trim finisher back in place and layer it all in 4200. Just like 2020.   Rearward looking forward, that's an acceptable amount of deflection in the overhang.  There's this wall paper like stuff. When the tiedown started ripping out, it tore some of it. Yeah I don't have that. I do have eternabond though. It's just not good, it's good enough.  While here we encountered *something* brushing against the camper. Something large enough to reach the sides. It woke my spouse up. Me, not so much. Some jeep showed up at 2330 one night. Probably wasn't expecting to see a camper there. The fresh connections cleaning to all the glow plug power side didn't pan out. It's still really hard starting and smokey as all get out. Kind of getting a hint that there's something else going on. Bad fuel or an injection pump beginning to fail. The filters will catch any water or debris, this engine shouldn't give a poo poo about fuel quality with a compression ratio of 21.5:1. It'll just run hotter.  Leaving through the same way in. This trail is just a little too small for this rig but we made it work.   Eastward. Montana is so gorgeous.    I'm also 12.  My next truck should be one of these.  More hills as I approach eastern Montana.  Land of the Crow. Really cool to finally get to visit this area. Back in primary school I did a pile of reports/studies/art on the Crow, Cheyenne, and Sioux nations. At one point I could even speak a little Sioux.   Then we take a little detour using highway 212 to cut a little off of I90. This was a bad idea. This is Highway 212.   They're replacing a couple mile stretch. All at once. With no water truck to tamp down the dust. What a cluster. Sign that said bump. Dropped the truck two feet. A car hot on my rear end, failed to stay hot on my rear end after that one. Back into the paved stretch then into the mountains.  The other thing that's awesome about traveling? Proper thunderstorms.  For the night I'm staying in Brodus at a truck parking area. Getting fuel I notice that the camper has been shot by a paintball gun. Little Shits.  Brodus puts the trip at 7,105 miles (11,368km). Tomorrow, Wyoming the 8th state on our road trip.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:53
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I really appreciate the non Instagram this broke and that sucked content. Still loving (and lurking) the thread.
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Oct 26, 2022 22:49
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One of my favorite things about AI as a whole. We'll happily look at your concours toy, but we're all really here for automotive gore.
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Oct 27, 2022 06:21
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Part of the fun is building something then using the ever living hell out of it. There's no place in my heart for coveted trinkets placed on an altar to be worshiped as a heirloom. Get it out and use it. Get some dents and dings on it. Establish some wear patterns and maybe some drip pans when it's leaking everywhere. Camping out at the tip top right corner of Wyoming. Near Aladdin. Here for a couple days. Mostly to take stock and recharge from the last couple days driving.  Making some friends with the locals.  This mountain kitty is maybe a little too friendly. I was actually planning to go out for a ride but eh maybe tomorrow.  The cows are really curious.  Then moving onwards near Sundance, WY  Gonna stay here a while. It's a nice spot. Devils tower has been on my list of 'poo poo to see' forever, and it's within an hour drive from here. I think I'll swing by on the way outta this spot.  Two days later the smoke caught up. FFFFFuck. We are almost halfway across the country and still not able to get away from it.  Options from here? Go east! And drive.  And drive.  Continue driving into South Dakota.  Piss break at an old Titan site. Hubby jokingly wants to buy one of these sites. Only if it comes with the missle so I can LS swap it and turn it into an rv.        Made it to Oahe Downstream State Recreation Area in Fort Pierre, SD for the night. Cool old school ACOE campground. I love these.    After leaving Pierre we head north on Hwy 83 to meet up with I94 to take that eastward towards WI and Michigans Upper Peninsula. This stretch of the country is desolate. The fuel is lousy with the truck dropping to 7mpg. Stopped in at a Napa to get Rotella, they're out. Napa should stand for Never Any Parts Available. Somewhere in North Dakota.  We make it to Bismark and are craving a big greasy burg after a day of driving. Turning into the five guys parking lot there's a new sound coming from the truck I've never heard before. Ever since we perched the camper on this truck it's been a pretrip item to check the lower flanges. This time my check would fail.  Ford you are a loving Jackass for putting holes right there in the frame's webb.  We've broken its back. Game over. Whatever, let's eat. Anxiously and with anger. There's a nearby flying J that we can do logistics out of. Talked to the counter worker we're clear to park there a couple days.  Options. Flatbed it back home. It'll probably break more from the porpoising on a flatbed. There's no house to return to, nor a second car. We'll need to rent one. Weld it up and roll the dice with it breaking again. Find another truck and roll the dice with an in-maintenance-debt-poo poo tractor. Continue onward with the trip after these two options or turn back to CA
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Oct 27, 2022 17:23
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cursedshitbox posted:Part of the fun is building something then using the ever living hell out of it. cursedshitbox posted:
Well gently caress. Seems like the living hell has been used out of that chassis rail.  The whole in-maintenance-debt thing is why I'm so reluctant to change cars. Currently experiencing this with a VW product because I'm a masochist. Best of luck to you both. This is not what I expected to see...
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Oct 27, 2022 17:46
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Wonder if it was that "dip" that you mentioned up-thread. Weld up the crack, as far as you can go without setting the rig aflame. Then put a plate over the crack, and weld that. How's the other side?
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Oct 27, 2022 18:38
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Buy the silo, fix it there. Sorry about having to drive across the Dakotas, I was ready to gouge my eyes out with a screwdriver it was such a boring drive. I was ready to quit my job after that trip.
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Oct 27, 2022 19:41
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Ouch, also I totally do not see the mountain kitty.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:16
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c355n4 posted:Ouch, also I totally do not see the mountain kitty. I also didn't see the cat. drat, looking forward to seeing what the solution is and where things go from here.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:32
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tryyyy here Maintenance debt has stopped us from replacing this truck several times. This is the second time on the trip where we consider such. My findings in NoDak were old trucks of the medium duty nature with many hundreds of thousands of miles on a old tired DT466 and only 2wd. There's also this GM/Isuzu cab over with airbrakes and numerous issues. And a I series International with a hosed up 7.3 that I could hang some of donk's parts on then send donk to the great junkyard in the sky. None of these options are good. Hwy 83 killed it. I checked that morning before leaving the campground in Pierre and everything was all good under there. Popping out of the thread sitting at 9/03/2021 for a moment, the passenger rail has never given up despite the hell its been put through. The driver's side has cracked three times. I'll do a mild break of the 4th wall and present everything I've learned/found/discovered from the point of this thread to the current day in the next update. this isn't a 134,000 mile truck like the state/history claims it is but more like 1,134,000 mile truck. The dakotas and the midwest I find to be some of the most boring driving there is. I made the trek across this span of the country in 2007 and again in 2021. The difference is stark. I kinda don't want to do it again with this truck.
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Oct 27, 2022 22:22
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I grew up in SoDak on the western end, and went to college in the east so I have spent maaaaaaany hours driving back and forth on I 90. I ... kinda like it? The vast open prairie is soothing and I can just let my brain drift wherever because I know the road is straight and empty for hundreds of miles. And then you hit Wall and the proto-Badlands, leading into the nice scenery of the Hills. And midway, there's a rusty dinosaur.
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Oct 27, 2022 23:31
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Montana has a rusty dino! I may not have adequate internet on monday for a big dumb effortpost so you all can have one ahead of time. However, it's not going to be a direct conclusion to the cracked frame, but rather, about the frame it self. Old lovely truck frames, and Me. It's surprisingly common to break a frame. Light/medium duty plow and dump trucks have this happen all the time. Even in class 6-8 it's not exactly uncommon to break a frame in a heavy haul truck. It was a lot more common back in the 60s-80s than it is today but still. The forces they experience loaded can greatly overload the section modulus of the flange creating a riser and a point failure. Others like the GMT400 and the predecessor the C-K series had frame failures of differing types. 4wd C-K series trucks are known for cracking frames at the steering box. Early 4wd 400s will crack behind the upper control arm on the firewall side. Both of these easily correctable and they're made of regular old 36,000 psi mild steel. Let's first talk about how the frame gets its strength. A common mis-conception is that the web of the frame is where all its strength lies. Less so. First let's consider a truck frame as varying blocks of metal and its relative strength under a static load.  To further illustrate the relationship between diameter, web height, and flange width and how it all contributes to the channels strength. This diagram.   Another place you could image this diagram is your typical I beam used in construction. The "flange" there is also the load bearing component. However I beams are not practical for motor vehicle construction. Now that's not to say the web is just there for pretty. It handles dynamic loading when components are bolted to it. Loading from above primarily loads the flanges like so.  Horizontal bending from the action of steering, towing, or the suspension responding to terrain.    The same force, but with a hole in the web.  Ken also sums this up well so I'm adding this to the post. kastein posted:Another thing that I believe is being glossed over by the source material is that the vertical web's job is to keep the top and bottom flanges connected together and spaced apart correctly. The top and bottom flanges in a beam are where most of the strength is, but without the vertical web under compression in between them they're just two flat bars flapping around. And the taller the vertical web is, the further apart the top and bottom flanges are which results in them having more effect on stiffness for the same material cross sectional area. I'm not a structural engineer though, so at this point I'm going to shut up and let people who are tell me I'm right or wrong. How things are attached to the frame can make a big difference in the frame's strength. If it's bolted to the web it typically needs a crossmember behind it or as near as acceptably possible. (within 2x its flange height) Without the crossmember to resist the frame twisting the load on the flanges can exceed its modulus resulting in cracks.  And when we house all of the components of a similar style truck to mine, the strain and stress on the frame will look like this.  Bit of additional information here. 5x is your typical safety margin like used in Kenworth, in 4wd vehicles. 2.5x is your typical 2wd safety margin in light/medium duty applications. Alright now that you understand how we can stress out a frame, let's bolt an upfit to it. There's as many types of attachment as the day is long. Some I am going to ignore here as it is far outside of the scope of this truck. Tanker trucks being one of them being rigid bolted. We're going to take a look at the type of upfit that still has the ability to flex independently of the primary frame.  Take this basic box truck diagram. Now apply stress to it like so. Note that the subframe is 'flexible' where the frame sees the most stress. Note that if the frame or its upfit can't move independent of one another it can overload the flanges directly above and below where it is bolted. If the upfit can contact the frame it can cause another point overload on the lower flange.  Typically on the forward mounts springs are used to help reduce bounce. Rubber, UHMW, and even wood can be employed to add to driver comfort.  The fixed section should be bolted like so. The thickness of the assembly 2x the diameter of the bolt. Washers or flared heads utilized, grade 8 or better, The bolt shouldered to the depth of the fastened assembly, and the hole drilled to as exact of a size to the bolt as possible.  To prevent the point overload from contact, this angle is employed on the upfit's subframe as it'll allow for some deflection.  Still with me here? Good. Let's get into how do you make a frame handle more load than it was originally intended to. Here's some cross sectional diagrams of your industry standard channel reinforcements. Note that C and D are extremely common to heavy haul trucks as despite the heat treated frame capable of 110,000 psi, it's not strong enough for its application.  And a engineering statement from International on the topic.  One last quick thing. post '98 Ford superduty frames are heat treated. They can indeed be fixed. If they can be fixed, mild steel definitely can be fixed. Here's a shop repair guide from Ford themselves on how to perform a partial frame replacement on the late model SuperDuty, right down to the welding settings required.   Now that you're dutifully bored, I'm going to subject you to practical applications of reinforcements of frames. From Ford mostly. There's a dizzying number of frames for this era of truck. Let's focus on the day cab and 133" and 137" wheelbase. Mine is pre-drilled for these rivet on the flange flat strap reinforcements however they are not present. In 1996, they became standard on the 133" wheelbase. The 137"s got them on all years. For that is not just the F350 frame, but also the F-Superduty too. (F-450). Main difference between the two frames is the reinforcement, some C-Channel crossmembers, slight difference in flange widths, and over the rear axle the shock mounts have no clearance in the flange. They moved the shocks more inboard.     I'll also point out that U-bolting an upfit is incorrect. Now to turn to the late model F550. It is the standard F350-450 frame, but with an extra frame layered over it in sections as so.   But as evidenced in this earlier SD 550 frame, it's not complete to the front of the frame. The reinforcement ends at the rear of the cab.  Alright why as all of this relevant? Let's look at our sins from a professionally built truckbed from the SF bay area thirty some odd years ago. First off at the very back. The upfit is welded to the frame. This is actually very wrong and so much so it's not allowed according to the FMCSA. The fixed bolt, fine. But it is grade 5. Not fine. There is no washer. Not fine. The receiver hitch is welded and integrated with the bed which is integrated with the frame.  These are small fries. Moving on. This is the goose neck plate with a photo circa the bed rebuild.  Take note of two things. The crosswise piece of flat plate, and the length wise piece of C beam going forward. The C-Beam is welded to the crossmember, here.  The cross plate is welded to the flange, here.  Moving forward towards the cab. It is symmetrically bolted on both sides with grade 5 hardware and no washers. Note that there's no spring mount or anything of the like.  The bed's subframe is a C-beam. In the above photo you see it cut to clearance for the bed. It's pretty unprofessional but whatever. At the very front, it is cut again and the headache rack butt welded to it. Also note that there is no 25 degree angled relief at the leading edge of the C-Beam.  From the back side, it looks like this.  The passenger side, looks like this.  This matters because I learned almost a year after this frame break in North Dakota that this isn't just under compression. It is also under tension. I learned this summer of 2022 on a camping trip when I took this photo. Something looked off. More-so than the usual flex. I found the bed had pulled away from the subframe at the front corners over half an inch.  It's not just twisted, the camper's front rolling off the centerline of the truck. Not allowable. Alright so let's recap here. We have a bed that's built wrong and attached to the truck in an incorrect fashion. This is creating improper loading of the primary frame and has been for over thirty years. We have a frame that was under built by the financial department on a throw-away truck and abused by the original owners. If you look at the front end in photos the recovery point on the left side of the bumper has pulled the bumper out of shape. The core support mounts on the frame use the same shims yet there's inconsistency. I suspect the frame has reached a fatigue limit and is permanently deformed on the driver's side. In the bed rebuild photos you'll see mud caked into the top of the tanks and in the bed. This thing has been buried deep and hee-hawed on by a tractor relentlessly. I'll also point out in the original truck thread where I had to pull back into shape, weld, and glue the cab back together. The A pillar was floating cracking the windshield. Space age adhesives from 3M used to glue Teslas together were utilized in this so not like it was the latest in material science from the 80s. The grade 5 hardware is under specified for the load, and keeps vibrating loose on one side allowing for more misalignment and momentary overloads of the surrounding frame. The bed has partially come apart, and is using the three ton camper working as a hammer, of which it is acting on the forward bed mounts as a chisel, which is working on the likely weakend cheap truck frame, to create a moment load that far exceeds the flange' modulus. How do I fix this and how do I fix this proper. Here is a diagram for an improved 133"wb frame. I can find several of these for every 137" wb frame. I need three. The primary. One that dies to build the upper reinforcement. One that dies to build the lower reinforcement. 6 months to 1.5 years work depending on how much the bed fights me. The subframe/goosneck/and back of the bed is cut off and rebuilt correctly. Or since there's so much work involved, I might as well build an aluminum bed for it and gain another 700lb in payload. It's a hell of a project and really only worth doing if I want to keep it as a weekender farm builder on 37s. This effort would make it stronger than the 137" frame however there's a lot of stitching involved. Keep it's tow capacity at 12,000 and gvr at 13,500 due to the limitations in frame length vs the position of the bed on it and the capacity of the rearend/tires.  Option B. The 137" frame requires me to stretch the driveline, or convert the truck to a ZF6, or a school bus 7 speed. The last two involves two/three new drivelines, and probably a driveline brake. The Sterling 10.25 rear axle I'm not in love with. It should go for a Dana 80 from a Ford E450 passenger bus/schoolie. Time frame is the same as above since the cab/spring mounts all place nice with each other however I'm sourcing and building drivetrain components again. Which this thing has a crappy transmission anyway. For the amount of effort that is a frame swap I might as well go for the longer wheelbase and throw a toolbox for spare tire storage and the like between the bed and cab so it's no longer hanging out under the back of the camper. Set the GVR at 14-15k, towing of roughly the same since the bed is now shifted forward vs the axle. Option C. 2005.5+ F550 4x4 heat treated frame. Coil front suspension with a Dana super 60. Dana 135 rear. Rebuild the bed to work with it. Throw a toolbox and spare carrier in front of it. Transplant all the best parts of this truck on it. Right axles. Right gears. Move to the 7 speed. Run 42s. Sell off the left overs. Have a 80s truck with a GVR of 18,000lb and a towing capacity of 18,000lb. Go anywhere, do anything, haul anything. The ideal. But also, the biggest most rabbitholest of projects. New cab/core support mounts required. Little other fuckery. Single large fuel tank instead of two little ones. Probably can add secondary holding and water tanks. Custom drivelines, fuel lines, brake lines. Steering is actually one of the easiest. It opens up room to tow and keep the camper and it's properly beef and all well matched of the best parts. This is a big long term project and requires a shop like all the other options. These options are musing on potential outcomes that I've been thinking of since the frame broke in the above update. Don't expect this to happen in the context of this thread. Sources and further reading: https://transportengineer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Chassis-Modification-Guidelines.pdf https://www.macktrucks.com/-/media/files/body-builder/manuals/7-frame.pdf/ https://til.scania.com/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=web&noSaveAs=1&dDocName=BWM_0000009_01 http://bodybuilder.navistar.com/general/documents/saleinfo/ct471dates/20140228/ct471/series/durastar/Durastar_frames.pdf https://www.dtwd.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/teachingproducts/AUT035_CCBY.PDF E: post and detail cleanup, nothing to worry. E2: frame flange section cleanup, sources. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 28, 2022 21:42
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Holy crap, I need to venture outside of my bookmarks more often, I just found this thread. Also I meant to go to bed 2 hours ago 
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Oct 29, 2022 09:24
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Amazing  Looking forward to seeing what you do with an old titan site. If the strength of the frame is in the top/bottom of the beam, then why aren’t they shorter and stouter? Just expense and easier to bolt stuff to this way?
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Oct 29, 2022 15:28
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builds character posted:If the strength of the frame is in the top/bottom of the beam, then why aren’t they shorter and stouter? Just expense and easier to bolt stuff to this way? Great question and I totally missed that very important bit. I added it to the post and some sources for the material used in the post.
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Oct 29, 2022 16:27
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cursedshitbox posted:Great question and I totally missed that very important bit. I added it to the post and some sources for the material used in the post. I don't want it to go unsaid here that 1) this is a fantastic post and 2) I read every word of it, including the excerpts.
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Oct 29, 2022 16:36
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Another thing that I believe is being glossed over by the source material is that the vertical web's job is to keep the top and bottom flanges connected together and spaced apart correctly. The top and bottom flanges in a beam are where most of the strength is, but without the vertical web under compression in between them they're just two flat bars flapping around. And the taller the vertical web is, the further apart the top and bottom flanges are which results in them having more effect on stiffness for the same material cross sectional area. I'm not a structural engineer though, so at this point I'm going to shut up and let people who are tell me I'm right or wrong.
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Oct 29, 2022 21:10
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cursedshitbox posted:Option C. 2005.5+ F550 4x4 heat treated frame. Coil front suspension with a Dana super 60. Dana 135 rear. Glad I ventured here from the announcement. I got goosebumps reading Option C. Do it! Do it! Do it! Living truck dreams vicariously through you. Love the thread, keep up the good work.
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Oct 30, 2022 00:57
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kastein posted:Another thing that I believe is being glossed over by the source material is that the vertical web's job is to keep the top and bottom flanges connected together and spaced apart correctly. The top and bottom flanges in a beam are where most of the strength is, but without the vertical web under compression in between them they're just two flat bars flapping around. And the taller the vertical web is, the further apart the top and bottom flanges are which results in them having more effect on stiffness for the same material cross sectional area. I'm not a structural engineer though, so at this point I'm going to shut up and let people who are tell me I'm right or wrong. You're right. At least to my limited understanding of structural engineering. Rodenthar Drothman posted:Glad I ventured here from the announcement. I got goosebumps reading Option C. This truck is forever at this point. We'll see! First off though, we weigh our options. poo poo tractors? no good. Leaves me with even more problems and nowhere to get one out of maintenance debt. Especially parked in a truckstop. Shipping it 'home' to California is a 2-5 thousand dollar job based on the bids I got. That's going to sit in my back pocket for a moment. I called up every welding shop in Bismark. Nobody wants to touch it. But one old timer is getting out and has been selling off his tools. He sold a bunch of propeller jigs to an old pipeline welder about 60 miles north of us. He gave me his number. Dudes willing to fix the truck. But I gotta get it there, 60 miles away, and also there's no warranty, no guarantee, he doesn't even want to be seen welding on this old fucker. Weird opinions out here. In CA they'd just weld this fucker up and throw it back out to work. My clever husband came up with a way to pull the frame back together with allthread.  We jump on our bikes and ride over to Lowes to buy the $20 in hardware required to bolt the frame back together. Awesome old bote parked out front.  Here's the temporary fix all bolted in nicely.  Of course it wouldn't be a project unless one of the one-way-only ratcheting wrenches gets stuck in place.  And we set off! Really slowly and gently. Probably the most gentle I have ever driven this thing. Up until North Dakota and its awesome infrastructure. Has a bump sign, in a mostly blind corner. And drops the truck three feet into a loving crater. Which ruined the temp fix.  And broke the frame even worse.  He saved a little extra length of all thread on the leading edge just in case for this very reason. However, it's not wanting to pull back together. The forces required exceed the metallurgy involved in our jank rear end fix. I deployed the jacks to lift some of the weight off the frame.  While he's pulling the frame back together it's creaking and groaning like it's the Battlestar Galactica just after it had been jumped without the fighter pods pulled in. The truck is also now visibly bent.  We get it patched up and we're off again. At 15mph. No faster. Google maps in its infinite wisdom that is the internet. Routed us down a fire road. With washboard features. Twenty miles left. 2wd-low range and 1st gear. 1.25mph dancing with the clutch to prevent loading the temp fix with any more weight than absolutely necessary. We made it. Right at dusk. He happened to be there. Said he'd start the following day after he's done with other customers, 5pm sharp. Told him I'd pull the truck down in the mean time. My visibly bent up truck. Going in, if you haven't read the other threads or I didn't really put it in to them, this truck was built to be fixed and fixed easy. Everything I've done I've done it in such a way that I could maintain this truck no matter what. What happened here is proving that. Step one. Unload a fully loaded 6,000lb camper. This requires extending the jacks to their absolute maximum and hoping there is no wind. There is wind. We made it though.  Driveline and exhaust out. While I'm below deck, he is above deck, stripping said deck off.  Left flange   Right flange.  Decking stripped.  While in Rome, I'm taking the opportunity to rotate tires while the camper is off since it is less sketchy. Which allowed for shots of its new springs. Rear:  Fronts:  Also these tires wear ridiculously fast. These might actually bald out before they age out at 5 years.  Fuel tank removed. I ran this one down prior to dropping it. Since the sending unit doesn't work, I guessed. There's about 6 gallons left in it. And the sending unit retainer is rusted to the tank, so I can't fix the sunken float. This old truck.  The truck still runs and drives. Using the front powered axle and the rearmost fuel tank.  With this. It is ready for repairs. Since I have some freetime I created this diagram to give the fabricator a rough idea of how to implement a fix.  Lastly, I leave you with turbo noises. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWRs4Pwvans
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Oct 31, 2022 23:19
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Living up to your thread title, I see. Dropping a tank with 6-gallons in it is still heavy & awkward. You guys did a poo poo-ton of work for welding prep. Are those fuel lines running along the frame?
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Nov 1, 2022 01:44
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PainterofCrap posted:Living up to your thread title, I see. My username is on point. I drop that mfing tank like three more times... Yes, They're nylon and go to the Fuel Switching Valve at the front end of the tank and fixed to the frame. I've never replaced any of this part of the fuel system. I'm surprised it all still works. On the gassers the FSV is a big point of failure. But in this system there is no twin fuel pumps so it doesn't really see any pressure. Dude shows up around six ready to get rolling. Drove a bobcat over to tow the broke back farm truck into the shop but much to his surprise, it's still running and moves under its own power. He's a bit off and a lot more energetic than he was the prior evening but whatever he's probably riding on five liters of coffee cause it's a long drat day.  Truck in the shop and so we begin. He's way off. Spouse and I catch onto this, and immediately jump in to help. We make the patch pieces from junk found around the facility that'll do the job, he stitches them on. He was a pipeline welder and with the whole Keystone XL thing falling apart he fell on hard times. Lost his contracts, lost his family, fell into the glass. Tonight, he's lit like a christmas tree and things are getting weirder by the minute. His welds are at least good though. There's numerous broken 6.0/6.4 Powerstrokes around. Fun questions about how to fix one and if I'm interested in doing 6.4 things for barter. No way buddy. ???  The next series of topics revolve around "Do you travel with cash and valuables"? and "Are you armed?" Buddy I am a six foot tall 200 pound ball of pure anger and muscle that can heave engines around by hand. Those that have met me know that I don't just hug, I'll pick your goony rear end up. If we could harness the anger alone we wouldn't need oil or renewables. Try not to touch my loving angry. It also seems he took note of me profiling the strap to the truck's frame by hand. He tapered off from there as he realized we probably not some people to gently caress with as there's one of him and two of us. Though I was still on the highest of high alerts like oh gently caress this guy is gonna find some friends and try and rob us in the middle of the night. It was the sketchiest predicament we've been in so far. Soup Du Jours is 75A SMAW(stick) and farmers rod. His report is that it's definitely mild steel and it welds really nicely.  The job finishes up at around the three hour mark. He wants something trivial like $1-200 for it all. Haha, no way dude. You're a pro pipefitter that fell on hard times and you gotta take care of your kids. We're fine to spend the night but we gotta be gone by end of day tomorrow. No problem. Square up. Pull the truck out back in front of the camper. Set the coffee maker for 30 minutes before daybreak and sleep with one eye open. Morning rolls around, here's the outcome. Technically correct enough that it'll get us back west and sticking to pavement. There's some issues with the flat strap but it's the best we could have accomplished. The fish plate is done correctly. The crack was relived by blowing it out with an oxy/acetylene setup then stitching it up then placing the plate over it. The flux hasn't been knocked off. I didn't bother either, it's my stress indicator now. Driver's side:    Passenger's side:   He does top end assembly, I do lower end.  Note the bow is gone. A bottle jack was used to lift the truck adjacent to the crack and push it back out. The camper is loaded in under an hour.  Back at the truckstop we started at.  The truck drives... better? No like better than the crack obviously, but it drives better than it did before it broke. It's more rigid now and the camper's porpoising is reduced. Now I understand why ford riveted the reinforcements on. loving cheapskates. Baller rig going by.  From here we're gonna drive to Fargo and decide to either continue eastward into Michigan or turn south to I80 and loop back to San Francisco.
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Nov 2, 2022 19:21
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It lives, dies, and lives again. 
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Nov 2, 2022 19:37
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Michigan has some nice liberally-type of things going on, and lots of love for camping and weird vehicles. I think you may like it there in some places. Half of my family is from there, can confirm that Lansing/East Lansing and Traverse City are both pretty chill nice places, and there are some neat opportunities in Detroit for property.
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Nov 2, 2022 19:59
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Suburban Dad posted:It lives, dies, and lives again. Nice work. Most older professional welders seem to be some combination of alcoholic & psycho.
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Nov 3, 2022 02:32
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The metal fumes likely playing a part with that But drat nice
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Nov 3, 2022 14:28
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Get to Fargo and the truck is feeling fine. Maybe we can continue the rest of this journey if we stick to highways and keep it under 60mph. We talk it over and this seems like a relatively prudent course of action. So we head north on 94 towards Minnesota and stay the night in Bemidji. Really nice KOA. Get laundry done, do chores, that sorta poo poo.  The pump starts acting up here. There needs to be a one way valve in the circuit and the pressure regulator will slowly creep up causing the valves in the pump head to bind, and not pump. The pump is serviceable and designed to be rebuilt. But it's not really in the best of locations.  Fargo does have a delicious sour scene. I bought em out.  Pretty mural  Rest stop somewhere in Wisconsin.  I'm a big fan of other people's builds. Especially when they get used.  Finally the kinda dog I could keep.  Then we cross into the Upper Peninsula of Michigan at Duluth and uhhh the roads kind of disappear.  Made it barely two states and 500 miles before we're back to overlanding. Rot on something much much newer than mine. I did see a bricknose with see through doors.  Truck Ideals.  For the night we camp at a Ski Lodge. Indianhead Summit Center. Bit cringy name imo.  This is my first time exposure to Wisconsin style cheese curds.  Unbeknownst to me there's a BMW Motorrad rally going on. And My loving Bike is some two thousand miles away.  But that's kinda ok that someone is representing team antique orange with a 990R model.  Our next stop is deeper into the Yoo Pee. The Sturgeon River Campground. It's right off a river and ridiculously pretty here.     Grilling some corn for dinner.  This place is so green it's incredible. I'm also allergic to everything in this photo.  From here we're gonna visit Marquette and spend a few days as its a potential candidate to buy some acreage and plant a shop. But first, this bridge.  It's ridiculously narrow however it looks sound enough to drive on. Yes we stop and check rural bridges before crossing. At almost 7 tons, I don't want to be the person to cause a bridge collapse.  Totally uneventful. Which is the ideal outcome with infrastructure.  Nice rig. In 2022 these are 300 grand with 144-200 month notes.  Mountainbiking, a cafe with a pizza oven, and full hookups at Rippling Ridge River Resort.  We'll be here a few days to check out the town, interact with some locals, and see what the place is about.
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Nov 7, 2022 21:08
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Love this thread. UP looks very pretty. Another question from a non-AI poster: A lot of these
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Nov 8, 2022 01:56
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Its hard to say since this thing is and gets used in what's an edge case. It wouldn't eat frames and all the other wonky poo poo that's happened but *something* will let go. However the comparable new F450/F550 turns out miles with relatively good reliability in fleets and emergency response. The Scorpion 6.7 PSD is actually well known to go the distance if left alone and cared for properly when service is due. The gas engined 7.3 Godzilla can be turned up to 1500hp without significant loss or reliability. They're so much better engineered vehicles than this truck was. This vehicle was still built with slide rules and probably a PDP11. The new stuff? Element wise analysis all the way before the first prototype is even attempted. Of course this truck was $16 grand in 1990. Its comparable new equivalent is in the 90-120 thousand dollar range. Then there's the aftermarket upgrades I'd do to the new truck, which add another 35 or so thousand to the price tag. I know of another setup in the same realm of mine but with a gasser F550 and a huge triple slide camper with something like 11kWh of battery. Outside of it being a little gutless and having 5 thousand pounds on mine, it works as advertised with no faff or fuss. But it's still being built and tested as it is all brand new hardware. I could guestimate a solid 200-250 grand into their build though. My spouse and I have talked about new truck? things every now and then. The frame being crispy is less of a fright to us now a year on than it was at the time of when the thread is at. If it eats another engine, it's getting replaced.
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Nov 8, 2022 03:21
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Am I correct in my recollection that you’re 100% opposed to selling donkey on to another private party? I imagine it’s worth a fair sum in its current state and with its documented history, which would make a new truck a bit more of a reasonable purchase. Wouldn’t look as cool though.
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Nov 8, 2022 04:08
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drk posted:Love this thread. UP looks very pretty. I love this trip, it's one of my favorite visits to this olde message forum.
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Nov 8, 2022 09:28
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By the way, you can answer this or not as you desire but how do you fund this kind of thing? Did you build up beforehand and then go off on a year+ travel or are you somehow doing some kind of paid work off and on when possible during the travels? In any case, as an AI outsider, really enjoying the scenery etc. You've hit some beautiful places.
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Nov 8, 2022 14:42
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