Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

Will the loan forgiveness be automatically applied to the amounts one still owes on their loans, as in there's no application process to get it to happen? My loans were federal and have been traded between several different loan servicers.

Also, I recieved 1 Pell Grant for a small amount back during the Great Recession. Most of my loans were not Pell Grants. Would I only get the 10,000 forgiveness plus enough to cover the Pell Grant portion, or does 1 small Pell Grant qualify you for the entire 20,000 (Or whatever you have left)?

Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

Will the loan forgiveness be automatically applied to the amounts one still owes on their loans, as in there's no application process to get it to happen? My loans were federal and have been traded between several different loan servicers.

Also, I recieved 1 Pell Grant for a small amount back during the Great Recession. Most of my loans were not Pell Grants. Would I only get the 10,000 forgiveness plus enough to cover the Pell Grant portion, or does 1 small Pell Grant qualify you for the entire 20,000 (Or whatever you have left)?

Anime Store Adventure posted:

I'm feeling like one of the most unlucky people right now. Would have probably had roughly exactly 10k in loans around 2020 had I not been desperately trying to pay them ahead.

Does anyone know the exact date that you can potentially get a refund for a payment? I made a final $2k payment on my loans Feb 6th 2020 with my whole tax return and some savings. That would be nice to get back, but it feels like I managed to thread the needle of "haha nope."

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

March 13th, 2020.

Anime Store Adventure posted:

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

You can refinance student loans through Naviant that are still federal loans, but Earnest is I believe exclusively private loans.

I'd check to see what type of loan you have to make sure. If it was a private refinance of public direct loans, then you likely would not be eligible for forgiveness.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

At least you have no student loan payments!



That sucks about the timing, though. But, you're debt free and did the financially smart thing. Without being able to predict 3 years into the future it was definitely the smartest move at the time.

Anime Store Adventure posted:

I now get to confuse all the friends and relatives by supporting the loan relief despite maybe having the circumstances that should make me The Angriest About It. That’s fun at least.

Eric Cantonese posted:

Sorry to bug you guys about this, but could someone share the text of this Atlantic piece where Joseph Stiglitz supposedly shoots down the inflation arguments against student debt?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/biden-student-debt-cancelation-stiglitz/671228/

I'm maxed out with free articles and have now hit the paywall.

quote:

Actually, Canceling Student Debt Will Cut Inflation
Biden’s targeted loan forgiveness will help, not harm, the economy.

By Joseph E. Stiglitz

We want to fight inflation and we want to keep the labor market strong. One of the most important ways to achieve both goals is to forgive a portion of student-loan debt. And yesterday, President Joe Biden announced that he was doing just that—canceling up to $10,000 in student debt for those making less than $125,000 and designating an additional $10,000 in loan forgiveness for Pell Grant recipients. Yet critics are attacking the measure, even at its modest level and with its targeted exclusions and benefits, as inflationary and unfair.

Whatever your view of student-debt cancellation, the inflation argument is a red herring and should not influence policy. Taking that logic to the extreme, canceling food stamps would do far more to reduce inflation—but that would be cruel and inhumane, and fortunately, no one has suggested doing so. A closer look at the student-debt-cancellation program suggests that the new student-loan policy may even reduce inflation; at most, its inflationary impact will be minuscule, and the long-term benefits to the economy are likely to be significant.

Although the broad estimates of the total amount of canceled debt can be big—some reach hundreds of billions of dollars—these figures derive only from budgeting practices for how credit programs like student loans are recorded. The government and budget analysts calculate a number that is known as “the present discounted value of foregone payments.” This corresponds to a current estimated value not of the lost payments this year, but of those in all future years. In other words, this calculation treats all of the losses from debt cancellation as though they occurred right now in a single year (adjusted for inflation)—a far cry from the reality. Such an accounting procedure can be an appropriate practice for thinking about the government’s long-run balance sheet, but it is a very poor guide for understanding what actually happens to people’s spending.

The inflation hawks compound this error by assuming that the indebted students will take their forgiven debt and go on a spending spree, a splurge of such magnitude that they would have to somehow find someone in the private sector willing to lend them the same amount at low interest rates to finance their extravagance. Economic theory says that these individuals will, at most, consider this an increase in their net wealth—I say “at most” because in many cases, these loans would never have been repaid at all. And economic theory also says that an increase in wealth is spent gradually over the course of a person’s life, not all in one year.

The actual amount of annual debt payments that would be reduced now, during this present inflationary episode, will probably run to tens of billions of dollars, not hundreds of billions. The lower number is likely because, again, many of those whose debt is being forgiven would not be making the payments anyway; many people with these debts simply don’t have the economic means to repay them.

The costs of cancellation are also far less than the value to be realized when student-debt payments resume after having been halted during the pandemic. Right now, because of the forbearance put into place in 2020, no payments are being made on government-owned student loans. This policy was essential to stabilize the economy during the pandemic. As part of a larger program of cancellation, the Biden administration would end forbearance; the resumption of payments in January is estimated to be worth more than $30 billion annually.

These numbers are modest relative to the size of our economy. Still, their net effect will be to reduce inflation.

Some of the critics demand that payments should simply resume without any cancellation. That would plunge a large number of student debtors back into immediate financial distress and further loan delinquency. According to analysis from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, just before the pandemic, 11 percent of student debt was either in default or more than 90 days in arrears. Because of pandemic forbearance and other emergency measures, that default rate went to zero for most student debt—though researchers found that student loans excluded from forbearance continued to default, not surprisingly, at a high rate. According to the New York Fed’s survey, once payments resume, we will quickly return to that world: A large segment of people will be unable to service their payments and, in the Fed’s words, “lower-income, less educated, non-white, female and middle-aged borrowers will struggle more in making minimum payments and in remaining current.”

This level of distress is bad for the economy, both in the short run, as we strive for a robust recovery, and in the long run. Having little or no access to credit means that starting a family or a small business, moving, or otherwise building up lives is much harder for so many young people. A growing body of evidence backs up the common-sense conclusion that student-loan debt is linked to people delaying significant life events such as getting married and having children.

This has society-wide consequences. People’s well-being is obviously affected, and so is the economy. The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia found that student debt is associated with weak new-business formation, in particular of new businesses with one to four employees. Given that the rapid increase in the number of small businesses—especially ones founded by Black and brown entrepreneurs—that we saw in 2021 may already be slowing down, we should be looking for ways to support that growth, not undercut it.

Studies of those student debtors who have had the good fortune to get their debt canceled by courts have found that the freedom from loan payments allows people to borrow anew and move around the country to take better jobs. Because continuing to build up our labor force and help people find jobs better matched to their skills is so important, a comprehensive student-loan debt-cancellation program will have a valuable economic upside.

Until recently, the U.S. led the world with high-quality and widely accessible college education. American prosperity and freedom have been tied to innovations such as the land-grant university, the GI Bill, and our world-class public universities. But because that education now comes at an ever-increasing price accompanied by an ever-increasing student debt for so many, our students fall behind before they even start their first jobs. The entire system of supporting and financing higher education needs an overhaul, but in the interim, we need to understand and address the immediate problem—and the Biden administration yesterday took a crucial first step by reducing the debt burden on many struggling American families.

Eric Cantonese posted:

Sorry to bug you guys about this, but could someone share the text of this Atlantic piece where Joseph Stiglitz supposedly shoots down the inflation arguments against student debt?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/biden-student-debt-cancelation-stiglitz/671228/

I'm maxed out with free articles and have now hit the paywall.

Bonoman posted:

I don't know about the second part, but for the first part I believe if you've been diligently filing your taxes and the have all your info on file... then the forgiveness should happen automatically.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

1) If the DOE has your income information on file (you are on IBR, you filed out a FAFSA form in the last two years, you submitted your income/tax returns to the DOE for income verification or any other reason, etc.) then it will be automatic.

If not, then you have to go online and sign a form "affirming" that you did not make more than $125k/$250k in 2020 and 2021, put in your personal information, and submit it through there.

2) Yes, you should get $20k forgiven. All you need is to have received a Pell Grant at some point.

PitViper posted:

Holy crap. I paid off the last of my student loans in Dec 2020, but made giant payments most of that year because I was "essential" and working 50+ hours a week. Am I eligible to request a refund of those payments and qualify for this?

Xombie posted:

It's probably more complicated if you no longer have the loan, and would have to call and ask.

Framboise posted:

If I request a refund for the payments I made to Navient and AES during the pause, will the balance I paid return to the account?

Also, is any of the 10k forgiveness or the refund I'd request going to be taxed? May as well brace myself for next year's taxes if so.

Borlorg posted:

I'm all for people paying off their school debt. College is pricey and has been for a while...

Hate me if you want to, but at the end of the day, this $10k is paid out of the taxpayer's pocket. I pay taxes. How about me not having to pay someone else's school debt? Our current president made that decision for me, screw him for that. I really feel like that the adults should take responsibility for the things they do in life, including taking out massive loans...

Borlorg posted:

I'm all for people paying off their school debt. College is pricey and has been for a while...

Hate me if you want to, but at the end of the day, this $10k is paid out of the taxpayer's pocket. I pay taxes. How about me not having to pay someone else's school debt? Our current president made that decision for me, screw him for that. I really feel like that the adults should take responsibility for the things they do in life, including taking out massive loans...

Borlorg posted:

I'm all for people paying off their school debt. College is pricey and has been for a while...

Hate me if you want to, but at the end of the day, this $10k is paid out of the taxpayer's pocket. I pay taxes. How about me not having to pay someone else's school debt? Our current president made that decision for me, screw him for that. I really feel like that the adults should take responsibility for the things they do in life, including taking out massive loans...

Borlorg posted:

I'm all for people paying off their school debt. College is pricey and has been for a while...

Hate me if you want to, but at the end of the day, this $10k is paid out of the taxpayer's pocket. I pay taxes. How about me not having to pay someone else's school debt? Our current president made that decision for me, screw him for that. I really feel like that the adults should take responsibility for the things they do in life, including taking out massive loans...

This Is the Zodiac posted:

If I had a federal loan in default that was eventually offset (years ago) by tax refund withholding, would I be eligible to get any of that money back?

Framboise posted:

We spend around 800 billion dollars a year on the military, which is more than the next top 9 nations in military spending in the world, combined. I don't want my money going to that and nor do I think we should be blowing all of our money on new toys for warlords to murder people with.

Our taxpayer money also went toward bailing out corporations and rich people with PPP loans and forgiving them during covid. Why didn't they take responsibility?

But no, this is where we draw the line, helping out people who were exploited by predatory loans long before most of them could even comprehend that kind of money. This is the real outrage, for sure!

Cope.

Kalit posted:

We all pay for things we don’t want. For an example of “my” tax money, I don’t want to subsidize religion by giving them a bunch of tax breaks.

But we elect politicians who decide on how to spend that money for “the greater good”. That won’t often align with people’s personal values. In the case of this student loan forgiveness, it’s to help ease the student debt bubble that’s occurring on a large scale. For my religion example, it’s to help promote organizations that a lot of people find community in while providing some humanitarian services on the side.

Borlorg posted:

I agree, federal gov't needs to stay out of subsidizing religion as well. And I would argue that any government "for the people and by the people" actually should cater to and align with the collective personal values of the people who created it. I don't like the student loan debt bubble either, but I disagree that this is the way to resolve it.

Sure, if I was the only one who felt the taxpayer is getting shafted here, who cares then, right? I assure you, this couldn't be further from the truth and we will make our voice heard in November.

BonoMan posted:

It's not just a bubble. It's an entire predatory system designed to keep people in financial servitude. Often unable to ever get out of repayment for decades. And they do it by preying on young kids who shouldn't be allowed to make such decisions that will set a nearly immovable course for their life.

You're right that it's not the best way to deal with it. It should ALL be forgiven and college made free (except for private universities).

Also I'd be interested to know what making your voice heard means. Voting for the side that would rather give trillions to corporations and demonize helping labor?

If you feel that giving relief to people in a destructive predatory system doesn't align with your values then... Hoo boy.

Kalit posted:

While you might not be the only person with this point of view, you absolutely are in the minority with your opinion. In case you're unaware about this poll in June, 55% of all adults support 10k in loan forgiveness.

So, no, your voice will not be heard in November because it'll be drowned out by the majority of people who support this.

Borlorg posted:

1. Higher education is not a right. Nor is it a basic human requirement for survival like food, water, and shelter. Plenty of successful people never spent a single day in a college classroom and have done quite well for themselves. Moreover, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head demanding they go to college and sign on the dotted line. College education is 100% optional. If young kids are not capable of recognizing the financial peril they're getting themselves into, then perhaps a financial literacy and/or an age requirement may need to be implemented in order to take out over a certain amount of school debt. If something is too expensive, then the very first logical instinct should be not to buy it.

quote:

2. I and any other law-abiding citizen like myself make our voices heard at the ballot box. We vote for the candidate whose views are more aligned with our own. Perfect candidates do not exist and a lot of times it feels like choosing a lesser evil. So, it's a tradeoff analysis that everyone does for themselves.

quote:

3. I understand you are willing to double down on the loan forgiveness notion and decided to go even further by wanting to forgive all of it, not just the $10k. I hope you also understand that there is no such thing as "free college". There is no "free" service of any kind for that matter. Just because the student isn't the one paying, it does not mean said service is free. Tell me who you would like to pay for it instead, how they benefit from it, and why it should be their legal responsibility. Then we can have a discussion. Otherwise, it's just a socialist utopia not rooted in rea

Borlorg posted:

Not true. Every voter's voice is heard in the election even if you don't agree with them and regardless of the election's outcome. Also, as recent years have shown, the poll data are far from a sure way of predicting which way the pendulum will swing this time. I could give very specific examples, but it will then probably turn this thread into a different discussion. So let's stay on topic instead.

BonoMan posted:

Thanks for your InternetArgument101 nonsense of “you do realize it’s not free right?” Yeah no poo poo. Our taxes pay for it. And I’m ok with that because I’m not a selfish shithead. I want my taxes to pay for services and policies that will be a tide that raises all boats.

“Law-abiding” …why include that? Only people I know that needlessly through that into a conversation as a descriptor for themselves are boomer chuds complaining about crap on Nextdoor.

Our taxes pay for it. Other nations can do it and so should we. Bing bong so simple. I’m assuming since you’re so vocal about this you have a super itemized list of literally everything your taxes pay for that you don’t approve of and an itemized list of only the things you want to pay for?

Borlorg posted:

I stated my opinion, I do not like socialism and things that resemble it. Forgiving school debt reeks of socialism to me. You are free to have any opinion you like even if I don't agree with it.

I had no intention of starting a fight, but your language is clearly becoming hostile for no good reason. This is the point where I disengage. Have a nice day!

Borlorg posted:

I stated my opinion, I do not like socialism and things that resemble it. Forgiving school debt reeks of socialism to me. You are free to have any opinion you like even if I don't agree with it.

I had no intention of starting a fight, but your language is clearly becoming hostile for no good reason. This is the point where I disengage. Have a nice day!