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Enjoy posted:Do you think politicians will be more or less inclined to improve animal welfare if there are more vegans in the world? Activism isn't meaningless, but this is a bit of that politoon with all the politicians staring at an approval ratings curve. And more seriously, agriculture is a massive business, because even the poorest people will try to eat, and agribusiness is just profoundly hosed up. Which also means that their global spending power, on politicians and propaganda in general, is massive. I agree with the notion that mistreatment of animals is morally wrong, but I am pessimistic about any systematic changes any time soon. Incidentally, I always found it striking that George Riley Scott, writing in space year of 1940 (!) a brief afterword to his book History of [human] Torture that he was hopeful that as mankind moved away from torturing each other, animal treatment would also improve. I feel that he would be disappointed in the world of today 
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Aug 30, 2022 09:27
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DrBox posted:If the world was already Vegan and slaughter houses did not already exist, anyone proposing the idea would be seen as unhinged. It's just hard to see the harm when you're indoctrinated into a system.  This thread seems to have started with the idea that veganism could be a way of effecting change in society. Be that as it may, just positing a what if - scenario doesn't seem very helpful to that goal, or that fellow in the 'toon. Even if I agree that factory farming is needlessly cruel, I also find myself agreeing with the idea that my options as an individual to influence this system of meat production are fairly limited.
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Sep 10, 2022 16:27
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DrBox posted:Two situations where sentient beings with no moral agency are harmed and exploited, yeah. You understand I'm not comparing the victims right? I'm only showing that asking a vegan to start promoting harming animals less rather than altogether makes no sense. We can change it from child molestation to dog loving if that helps the analogy. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Why You Should Go Vegan: We can change it from child molestation to dog loving
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Oct 16, 2022 22:51
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Enjoy posted:Magnets show an aversion response when being held near to the same pole as another magnet, are you saying magnets need moral consideration? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, I wonder what kind of a moral calculus system one could conjure up where the autonomy of electrons was a major concern. Of course it'd be super hosed up if the universe worked like that, but then again, just look at the rest of the universe. That said, plants do possess qualities that we can point at and dub 'life', which at the moment isn't true for electrons. Of course a fifth-level vegan is a simpsons joke, and this conversation has revolved around the capability of feeling pain, discomfort and a "preference for continued existence" rather than just plain old life itself. But it seems a little blithe to counter the idea of plants "preferring life" by naming objects or categories which we associate with "non-living" categories, picturing a big honking ACME horse-shoe magnet here, etc. 
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Oct 18, 2022 05:52
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