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Me and some folks who I've found out also have been there, done that wrt trying out the vegan lifestyle have all come to the same conclusion: we all got loving malnourished lmao. As people who have suffered a lot and put a lot of personal money into the welfare of animals (including strays), don't take this to mean that I don't care about the welfare of animals, as seems to be the common accusation against people who are not satisfied with the vegan diet. I just feel that veganism without political campaigning to improve the overall field of agriculture (both livestock and crops) itself resigns veganism to a personal belief, rather than something that could help improve animals lives. Spending a lifetime on an alternative diet plan can only affect the animals you would've consumed in your own individual lifespan. Improving laws that will enrich the lives of livestock animals as a whole well beyond what they would naturally experience in nature (which is to say, short brutal deaths because nature is mean and there are no peaceful natural deaths)? Well that's something I do find worth struggling for. I have no faith that veganism can do much by itself without any legislative effort to improve agriculture. It just feels so much the same way that oil corporations placed blame on individuals using the notion of a "personal carbon footprint," so that way no one would notice the major systemic issues. I don't want to poo poo on people for doing what the feel is better for them, of course. I just want to know if there are any legislative pushes I can help support that improves animal welfare.
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Aug 30, 2022 09:01
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Enjoy posted:What were you eating? This is from years back and I never really went full vegan, just cutting out meat out of my diet when I could but.... regular diet, hardly meat, plenty of rice and beans, no tofu. Had plenty of grains. Too many grains. Eating enough vegetables didn't really take away the hunger. As for what my other friends with more money ate? Probably the same, but with tofu. quote:Do you think politicians will be more or less inclined to improve animal welfare if there are more vegans in the world? There are more sizeable demographics who are begging for basic rights to their politicians, and even then they hardly get attention. So no, I don't believe just existing as a vegan is enough. To really promote animal welfare, there has to be more of a legislative angle to it for better change, which does involve bothering politicians directly. god please help me fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 09:41
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I mean. I'm just concerned by that article since it seems that according to it, only 3.7% of the sample household spent anything on a meat substitute. You can certainly eat a diet of nothing but carbs and vegetables and have it indeed be inexpensive in comparison, but god that's not going to be healthy nor is it going to be that great if you're a working class poor person who does very labor intensive jobs (like me). Eating meat strikes the best nutrition/cost balance for working class poor people. I do not mind there being more people choosing a vegan diet, but there is a decent risk of being malnourished for those who don't know what they're doing.
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Aug 30, 2022 11:18
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Starting to feel bad, lacking energy and ability to focus, really hungry for protein and meat, feeling bloated and watery due to eating a lot of carbs/vegetables but not enough of protein. I had to admit that my attempt to cut out one of three of the essential macronutrients was not going well, so I went back to eating meat and vegetables primarily, and felt better. I still eat carbs too, no worries. Just not as much as I was when I trying how long I could go without meat. My friends have reported similar experiences. That's why the article talking about a diet of only 3.7% meat substitute strikes me as not feasible for me. god please help me fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 11:47
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Can you give an example of some places you have traveled to where you think this might be the case? There are pretty large parts of India where your statement isn't even true. You can usually find vegetarian-friendly food in every culture (barring places like the arctic circle where farmed vegetables were not a thing until recently), sure. But primarily most people are going to offer food with meat in it since it has plenty of protein in it. It's only hospitable to offer a protein-containing meal, as opposed to say only a side-dish of egg-free potato salad. You can certainly manage to find vegetarian options during your stay in other countries, but I feel that it is disingenuous to act like food containing animal products isn't a major part of every culture on earth. In fact, I struggle to think of a culture that has strict vegetarian people only, no living along side meat-eating people as is the case in India or that time in Japan that meat eating got banned due to Buddhist scripture (but people still ate meat on the sly). I can however think of plenty of cultures where they live on a strict vegetable-free diet due to animals being able to consume the local plant life that humans can't. They fulfill their vitamin C requirement from fresh meat and organs. This is all to say that culturally, animal products in food is to be expected more than they are not. Also, I'm going to agree with the people upthread saying that reducing meat consumption for individuals is more feasible and accomplishes the same goal of reducing animal products better than strict veganism alone. It's easier to achieve, avoids the issues of getting malnutritioned, acts upon something reasonable that most meat-eating people would agree on, and refocuses the issue on how animals are treated in the field of animal agriculture, rather than condemning agriculture as a whole/pretending that plant agriculture doesn't have its own issues that is as bad if not worse for the environment than animal agriculture. god please help me fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 20:41
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Ytlaya posted:It affects less than this, because the actual "production" from livestock farms isn't going to change based upon your own consumer choices. It's not like, by choosing not to buy chicken, you're bringing the chicken that was killed back to life. Or that the company is going to be aware that you didn't buy chicken at a restaurant and reduce its chicken production by 1 in the future. It's the sort of consumer choice that has literally zero impact unless it reaches a threshold where it makes farms actually decrease their "production." And I would argue that it's impossible for enough consumers to voluntarily reduce their consumption to such a degree, because our society/economy is so strongly intertwined with meat production. A real meaningful decrease would require government action (and this would require a fundamental change to our political system). There's a good chance that, even if there was a significant and widespread change in consumer behavior, meat production would still stay the same, with the products just being used in different ways (sort of like we've seen with other farming products, where the industry is powerful and has its own influence over the government, which provides it with subsidies). Agreed, except I feel that sometimes fish don't get butchered quickly enough. I've seen some cases in Japan where I feel like in the search for "the freshest fish possible" that the fish gets dragged to hell and back just so it can get slaughtered in your own home I guess. I would much rather that fish and shellfish get killed immediately and painlessly before going through any market system. The technology exists for shellfish to get zapped immediately and instantly die before they know what's going on. I just wish it was more widespread. Maybe it might be marketable for seafood companies to offer this service, who knows, maybe emailing them about it would be worthwhile. But yeah, other than that I agree completely.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:51
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ReadyToHuman posted:It is probably worth considering that "tried it, filled up on carbs, no attempt to make up the protein" does not impart the nutritional expertise to weigh in on what is generally going to be healthy or no. Protein is readily available from lots of plant sources that aren't gonna be regarded as "meat substitute." Brown rice and legumes are still carbs.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:51
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ReadyToHuman posted:I do not think you know what a carb is. Lots of foods contain multiple macronutrients in different amounts. In that case, I don't think you get that meat contains more protein than rice and beans.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:27
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ReadyToHuman posted:Are you on the Jordan Peterson diet or something? I think this post illustrates the reason why most people are turned away by veganism tbh. There's the animal wellfare component that I want to believe most people are receptive to, but god forbid the accusations of being a "carnist" or (insert famous bad person who is strident about eating only meat here) are inevitable. I'm not too sure about the rules of D&D, because there is a very famous vegetarian who did even worse bad things than Jorp I could link to. Anyway, I still don't think animal welfare requires veganism nor do I appreciate rude vegans trying to dunk on me for having a bad time trying to ascribe to their nutritional guidelines. Primarily I think that improving agriculture, yes even plant agriculture, on a legislative measure would be a better way reduce animal suffering.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:59
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Enjoy posted:Do you vote? Why is the reply so short? Those were very good attempts to take this topic seriously.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:04
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Kalit posted:Why have you not replied to my response to your post? It was a good attempt to take your post seriously. why is everyone so sarcastic and snippy? I was actually quite positive about your post because I'm more interested in the legislation part about it, but I think I just need to distance myself from everything vegan related at this rate. And besides some of the posts and points that I've made went uncommented on anyway besides the post getting called Jordan Peterson for getting back on to the standard after getting malnutrition from trying to follow vegan diet guides online. I think I'm pretty much done here, and won't look at the resources you posted. Enjoy posted:I think it will demonstrate that they are either hypocrites or doomers I don't really have much to say about that, then. God, please don't attack me for whatever reply I'm trying to make nonsarcastically. I think I'm pretty much done here.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:58
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