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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi_claims_and_settlements the treaty settlements are good, but we shouldn't pretend the value is anything near what was lost
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Sep 30, 2022 08:21
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Weka posted:Tell it to my local tribe with over a billion in assets, including a bunch of land with more probably on the way. You bring up a good point, despite being bizarrely defensive. The US governments treatment of certain tribes was way worse than other ones. One example comes to mind, the crow rez from my understanding is very resource poor compared to other tribes and as as result their percap payments are much much lower than other tribes. Most white people of course dont even bother to try to understand the nuances. Even if your local tribe has billions in assets that doesnt mean poo poo if its not being share equitably amongst the tribe.
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Sep 30, 2022 10:02
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ted hitler hunter posted:I'll give you three guesses. The Atomic Man-Boy posted:You do know that tribes are political organizations, right? And often political organization that had distinct boundaries that were promised actual pieces of land by treaty that the US just reneged on because its bourgeois wanted to make money? We could start with that. Terminal autist posted:You bring up a good point, despite being bizarrely defensive. The US governments treatment of certain tribes was way worse than other ones. One example comes to mind, the crow rez from my understanding is very resource poor compared to other tribes and as as result their percap payments are much much lower than other tribes. Most white people of course dont even bother to try to understand the nuances. Even if your local tribe has billions in assets that doesnt mean poo poo if its not being share equitably amongst the tribe. Exactly what I was getting at It's not enough to say just to give the land back. Whatever political organization have managed to hold on are suddenly given exponentially more power and responsibilities and we think it should shake out all good because, as victims of history, indigenous people are good people. Indigenous people would likely need to build new political organizations to handle the new material circumstances. The material reality is that Landback necessitates massive political and economic restructuring, what does that look like? Some proponents cannot say, because they do not care to think about practicalities, because they do not believe it is possible and so they feel very comfortable twisting and stretching their radicalism towards various ridiculous propositions.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:20
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I'm guessing I wasn't very clear and it makes my argument seem like I think the only path is lib incrementalism, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Really, I'm just frustrated how no one is willing to think about power in regards to any of this stuff. Like you could (conceivably) build a broad working class movement around things that broadly effect the working class (police violence, lack of healthcare, low wages, etc) and would be able to leverage its power to actually demand concessions from the system: police defunding, m4a, minimum wage hikes, and so on. How do you build a base capable of demanding change with something as ill-defined as landback? Landback can't actually mean "land back" because that would mean the de facto dissolution of the United States, or at the very least its end as a world-bestriding political and economic entity and certainly as the global capital hegemon, and how are you building enough power to kick off that sort of revolution with "landback"?. So maybe it means "give federal land back" or "stick to the treaties" , but again, where are you building this power? They're obviously morally correct and good (and that's the point, really) but they're not broad working class issues, even if the genocide of the American indigenous peoples and the continued rape of their land was and is class warfare. How do you build the very significant power you'd actually need to do something like force the US government to give a poo poo about a treaty when they really don't want to? You're not going to create a meaningful working class coalition with "well, they should have played fair". Maybe you can convince enough sympathetic rich people and do enough regional grassroots organizing to elect politicians that can score some local concessions. I don't think "landback" helps with this, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a good rallying cry for this sort of organizing and I'm out of touch. Seems to me like unwantedplatapus got it right in recognizing that it's sort of a nonsense idea that everyone knows deep down can't succeed so they can feel free to toss it around for radlib bona fides.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:17
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shwinnebego posted:Alaska is a striking example of this. Indigenous-led Fortune 500 oil company https://www.asrc.com/ Oh yeah but I mean specifically evidence of "the political energy coming from extractive corporations."
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Sep 30, 2022 22:23
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federal recognition for the Lumbee now
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Sep 30, 2022 23:44
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https://twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1583823561835151361 No way man, lmfao
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Oct 22, 2022 17:04
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I’m surprised the white mountain Apache tribe never said “we don’t know her at all” before this unless no one bothered to ask
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Oct 22, 2022 17:24
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lol she hasn't even been dead three weeks. i bet those siblings have been wanting to get this out there for decades
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Oct 22, 2022 17:29
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quote:When asked if she thought Littlefeather’s life or career would have been better if she had never claimed to be American Indian, Orlandi demurred. “Sacheen did not like herself. She didn’t like being Mexican. So, yes, it was better for her that way to play someone else.” Is Littlefeather the first "nonwhite" person to do something like this? I'm from the subcontinent and grew up with a bunch of people who were kind of like her. They hated being brown, and did everything in their power to act "white". I remember a dude my age scolding me because my mom made me wraps using rotis instead of tortillas for lunch. I definitely did look down on some kid for bringing in rice + lentils for lunch so I guess i'm at fault here too.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:32
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Everyone itt should read Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:33
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Is Littlefeather the first "nonwhite" person to do something like this? whether Mexicans are white are not is a little bit of a complicated topic and depends on the perspective quote:They identified as “Spanish” on their father’s side and insisted their family had no claims to a tribal identity. many Mexicans who are Spanish are effectively white. Mexican native populations are nonwhite
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Oct 22, 2022 17:35
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I drove through Oklahoma recently and stopped at many Choctaw travel plazas. They had nice hot dogs. Well, I've done my part for native liberation for the foreseeable future.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:35
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speng31b posted:whether Mexicans are white are not is a little bit of a complicated topic and depends on the perspective The concept of whiteness is completely made up, hence the quotes. I think if we're talking about the colloquial use of the term, she's essentially a Chicano?
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Oct 22, 2022 17:37
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iCe-CuBe. posted:I drove through Oklahoma recently and stopped at many Choctaw travel plazas. They had nice hot dogs. Well, I've done my part for native liberation for the foreseeable future. doing my part by buying a burrito from the local mexican joint instead of chipotle
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Oct 22, 2022 17:37
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The concept of whiteness is completely made up, hence the quotes. I think if we're talking about the colloquial use of the term, she's essentially a Chicano? yeah, what i was getting at is that it may be just as easy to say she was white given the context
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Oct 22, 2022 17:39
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please refer to "cosas de whitexicans" for all internal racial matters involving mexicans https://twitter.com/LosWhitexicans/status/1582165809832787968 "I'm not classist, I have poor friends and I treat them the same as normal people" i say swears online has issued a correction as of 17:42 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 17:40
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Keeler literally keeps a list of people she considers not pure enough to be real indians, that she researches using the systems designed to bureaucratically eliminate indians https://twitter.com/YurokGuy/status/1577836494173052929
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Oct 22, 2022 17:54
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Dog Case posted:Keeler literally keeps a list of people she considers not pure enough to be real indians, that she researches using the systems designed to bureaucratically eliminate indians did the tribe ever grant littlefeather citizenship
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Oct 22, 2022 18:18
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Raskolnikov38 posted:did the tribe ever grant littlefeather citizenship I don't know. Maybe she really is the biggest pretendian ever. Maybe she grew up learning the language and traditions from the oldest elder on the rez. The point is keeler's whole real Indian purity list is based on the same colonizer system designed to mathematically eliminate natives
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Oct 22, 2022 19:02
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i say swears online posted:why will they be getting more land? repurchasing at market rate? They do have first option on a bunch of land they've identified as historically relevant but this is just ongoing Treaty of Waitangi settlement stuff. Terminal autist posted:You bring up a good point, despite being bizarrely defensive. The US governments treatment of certain tribes was way worse than other ones. One example comes to mind, the crow rez from my understanding is very resource poor compared to other tribes and as as result their percap payments are much much lower than other tribes. Most white people of course dont even bother to try to understand the nuances. Even if your local tribe has billions in assets that doesnt mean poo poo if its not being share equitably amongst the tribe. It is frustrating when you have just given an example of land back under capitalism for somebody to post that land back is impossible under capitalism. exmarx posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi_claims_and_settlements Of course not, but it's not clear to me that it would be beneficial to do so, effectively creating a new landed aristocracy. I meant it when I said I don't think American natives should be given all American federal lands. That is if you are talking about material losses, arguably the greatest losses have been cultural. e: That's not to say it has been enough. unwantedplatypus posted:Exactly what I was getting at This is a point I find very interesting, recently here we had a big protest initiated mostly by younger Maori about a decision made by the tribal authority regarding the disposition of some land. It seems to me that Maori governance structures could do with some change but taking a firm position on the matter or what that would look like I hesitate to say as a non-Maori. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihum%C4%81tao Weka has issued a correction as of 01:29 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 00:26
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