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Rationale posted:This is a non-starter for me. I want to make good coffee and amazing donuts. I want people to be like “drat, these are some really nice donuts” I don’t want to leave my first impression up to some other rear end in a top hat. Why the hell is anyone going to think your donuts are nice? You're talking about buying premade donut mix and putting it into a commercial donut machine. You've never worked food service, and don't appear to regularly make your own donuts. Same goes for the coffee. The only coffee-making details you've mentioned in this thread are commercial coffee machines. You think you're gonna impress people by running a fancy expresso machine and adding a few squirts of off-the-shelf syrup? If you want to wow people with your food, there's a lot more to it than buying the expensive donut mix and the fancy espresso machine.
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Oct 17, 2022 05:27
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Main Paineframe posted:Why the hell is anyone going to think your donuts are nice? You're talking about buying premade donut mix and putting it into a commercial donut machine. You've never worked food service, and don't appear to regularly make your own donuts. I would like to reiterate that donuts, and espresso, are unbelievably finicky food items, and people who really like either (enough to pay a premium or drive out of their way) will notice that you are phoning it in. In other words, op, please continue posting. Voted 5.
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Oct 17, 2022 05:39
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Pretty much everyone uses donut mix, including the fancy shmancy places. Same with fancy cakes, you're getting cake made with mix bought in fifty-pound bags. That's one thing I don't find fault with, to be honest
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Oct 17, 2022 06:05
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Powerful Katrinka posted:Pretty much everyone uses donut mix, including the fancy shmancy places. Same with fancy cakes, you're getting cake made with mix bought in fifty-pound bags. That's one thing I don't find fault with, to be honest It usually comes down to a lot of really specific baking, precise weights and all, and someone on the back end to do all the fancy pastry decorating. Also freshness, like a matter of hours will make a huge difference in quality. For comparison, there's a fancy donut shop I go, and the have the best donuts around by far, but a dozen of the "premium" donuts is $35 and their regular is $22. The shop is basically a large kitchen with little to no room between rolling metal baking tray racks that someone came in at 2am to bake and carefully decorate including making character designs and then they work until ~1pm and close. Last time I was there I heard them say they had to throw out at least one entire tray because the prep person ran out of time to frost/decorate them.
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Oct 17, 2022 06:17
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pentyne posted:It usually comes down to a lot of really specific baking, precise weights and all, and someone on the back end to do all the fancy pastry decorating. Hence why so many places, including fancy ones, use mix: all the precise mixing of ingredients is done ahead of time. All you need to add is wet ingredients and sometimes yeast. Someone using mixes doesn't make me bat an eye, they taste good, everyone does it, and it's incredibly impractical to make donuts entirely from scratch in bulk It was the same at the fancy bakeries and restaurants I worked at, most of the cakes were made with mixes. The only ones that weren't, were specialty ones that were vegan or gluten-free or whatever, or at one place, a caramel cake that was the pastry chef's signature dessert and cost like $15 a slice
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Oct 17, 2022 06:32
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I'll grab a picture of the goat enclosure at the farm next to me. They tried to get into upscale donuts and certainly nailed the "tasty treat" part, but customers just wouldn't pay a cent for a donut unless it was hot, fresh, and literally steaming. They determined that a donut needed to spend no more than about 5 minutes between completion and consumption or customers would complain that they wanted a "donut from TODAY, not yesterday" That meant someone was making a batch at all times, putting another couple dozen on the shelf every ~3 minutes during morning rush, and working hard to clear the worthless expired donuts off the shelf every 10 or 15 minutes so customers would stop handling them all to see if some were hotter than others They tried taking the expired (room temp) donuts off the shelf and stuffing them into bags labeled Day Old Donuts ($2 for 8!) but that turned out to be a waste of perfectly good bags. Now they just toss 'em into Goatel 6 at the end of the day
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Oct 17, 2022 07:10
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Powerful Katrinka posted:Pretty much everyone uses donut mix, including the fancy shmancy places. Same with fancy cakes, you're getting cake made with mix bought in fifty-pound bags. That's one thing I don't find fault with, to be honest Yeah, I'm just pointing out that he's talking about how his donuts are going to be so much more amazing than everyone else's, but he's not actually doing anything special. He's using the same mixes as everyone else and using the same commercial machines as everyone else, and doesn't have any experience making donuts or doing food service in general, so there isn't a ton of reason to think he's gonna stand out from the rest right from day one.
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Oct 17, 2022 07:42
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I’m lead bidder on a 40 quart mixer. As far as having a standout product: the distributor sells different grades of mix and the premium stuff tastes much nicer. I can also dress them up with captain crunch or whatever to make them a bit more distinctive. Actual doughnuts are much newer to me but I know that the real profit margins are there. It costs a quarter to make a cake donut and like a dime to make a classic raised glazed. I also personally prefer yeast doughnuts and I’m more interested in mastering their craft. I think $2 or $20/dz will make money on the donuts I gently caress around with so long as I gently caress around expeditiously. I think $1 for a raised glazed won’t bankrupt me.
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Oct 17, 2022 10:07
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Stay safe donut zaurg.
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Oct 17, 2022 12:50
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Are you at least a hobby baker? Do you have any experience with yeasted doughs? Have you ever worked in the food industry? Are you prepared to work overnight for the next few years? Are you going to need to work another job to pay for the donut place and your regular bills until the donut place makes a profit? Do you know how much money you need to keep the place afloat until it turns a profit? I don't mean your napkin scribbles about cost per donut, I'm talking about how many thousands you'll need to keep as a reserve Will your wife need to work in the shop to keep expenses down? Are you doing a sole proprietorship or an LLC? Let me tell you a quick story. In culinary school, we had a semester-long project to make a mock business plan for a fantasy bakery or restaurant. One of my classmates was married to a business loan officer at a bank; she scoffed at us getting three months to put it together, because he works with customers for a year at a time to make a viable plan You need a business plan, even if you're not going to apply for a loan. Also, everybody's costs ran into six figures, which is 100% average, because opening a business is expensive as gently caress even if you don't have to pay rent Also, run this by the cooking forum, they'll have more advice. I can't get over the fact you've never actually made donuts and want to open this business, you idiot
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Oct 17, 2022 13:09
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Hey donut poo poo on this guy’s dreams.
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Oct 17, 2022 13:46
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i like that the OP appears to be categorically opposed to acquiring practical experience in the field in any way it's admirable really
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Oct 17, 2022 14:30
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I feel like $75k is a cheap lesson in entrepreneurship that they can easily afford. It’ll help them succeed at whatever their next business is. Just don’t encumber the building and don’t take personal loans to stay afloat.
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Oct 17, 2022 14:32
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Are you gonna do a soft opening or just send it?
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Oct 17, 2022 14:48
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Full send, all gas, no brakes, gently caress permits take a sledgehammer to your brick walls
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Oct 17, 2022 15:04
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Has a goon ever launched a food service biz and experienced success? I know we’ve had some restaurant managers who were doing ok but I don’t think they built the place.
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Oct 17, 2022 15:37
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Rationale posted:I’m lead bidder on a 40 quart mixer. Pretty sure the industry standard is you can expect to throw away nearly 50% of your baked goods every day if you aren't a massive sell out success, like Instagram famous attention level. pentyne fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 15:44
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Has a goon ever launched a food service biz and experienced success? I know we’ve had some restaurant managers who were doing ok but I don’t think they built the place. nobody who has posted about it first, for sure
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Oct 17, 2022 15:48
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lease the space to the donut consultant dude, be the magnanimous landlord who gives him 25% off rent and free labor, then find a way to stab him in the back and take over operations or jack up the rent once he gets the customer base established and breaks even. hth
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Oct 17, 2022 16:06
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Family friend is an independent baker who rents space in an existing bakery so she doesn’t have to worry about building maintenance or equipment purchasing. I think her main business is wedding cakes and special events, we bought a cake for Easter that was like $45 but it was delicious so ok. She seems to be doing fine but has the advantage that if she wants a break or career change doesn’t need to sell the business or have a building sitting idle.
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Oct 17, 2022 16:11
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i like that the OP appears to be categorically opposed to acquiring practical experience in the field in any way It's amazing. Everytime I come back to this, I think of something new that the OP isn't thinking about OP, you need a business plan to figure out what to charge per product to break even/make a profit. Like to really sit down, price out the costs, compare prices to competitors: other donut places, the grocery stores, McDonald's, local diners, convenient stores--literally everywhere that sells coffee and breakfast foods. Remember that you're competing with places that aren't close to your shop, people commute and buy breakfast where it's convenient, which may be closer to their house than their job I've officially put more thought into your business then you have
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Oct 17, 2022 16:12
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Rationale posted:I’m lead bidder on a 40 quart mixer. When do you think you're going to open/start selling donuts?
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Oct 17, 2022 16:14
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Also no idea what food costs are but $1 for basic glazed is like the cheapest possible. Krispy Kreme charges more then that. That's not wow people with my amazing donut prices that's "on my way to work and cheap coffee and some sugar"
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Oct 17, 2022 16:20
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Powerful Katrinka posted:It's amazing. Everytime I come back to this, I think of something new that the OP isn't thinking about Oh yeah that was a big thing that sunk The Hero of Toronto, undercharging for months because he smugly avoided having real restaurant experience as he liquidated his pension plan and sold his house.
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Oct 17, 2022 16:45
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Rationale posted:Long story short I’m capable of doing most of what needs done I just don’t know exactly what that is. I can budget maybe 75,000 for this because that’s all the time I have before our projected open date and we’re funding this with our wages. Didn't see anyone else pick up on this, but why do you have a locked in projected open date when you're still in such early planning?
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Oct 17, 2022 16:45
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I love this thread and everyone in it. God bless.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:08
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I just bought a Univex srm 40 for $1630 so you can’t tell me poo poo!
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Oct 17, 2022 18:10
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Have a donut of the day which are the only donut you're pumping out hot and fresh throughout the morning. Don't precook any early in the morning.
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Oct 17, 2022 18:28
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These threads are so, so predictable every time, troll-OP or not. God bless, DonutZaurg. Let no advice steer you away from
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Oct 17, 2022 18:30
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Rationale posted:I just bought a Univex srm 40 for $1630 so you can’t tell me poo poo! Congrats dude - making big steps! Have you decided on a name yet?
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Oct 17, 2022 18:30
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can you call it doobie's donut house, in honor of the forums
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Oct 17, 2022 18:32
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Oh man this is a really bad idea OP. “Love the criticism guys keep it coming!  ”
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Oct 17, 2022 18:50
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Rationale posted:I just bought a Univex srm 40 for $1630 so you can’t tell me poo poo! We can ask, though, and you literally only answered one of our many, many questions And actually, we CAN tell you poo poo, dumbass
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Oct 17, 2022 18:53
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Sundae posted:These threads are so, so predictable every time, troll-OP or not. Yeah, I’m def still not sure if this is a troll or not, but gently caress it it’s pretty funny either way.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:17
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Rationale posted:
I'm still thrown off by this. What is this actually saying? I thought it meant start with like a part time helper or two. Is 4 full time employees at open small? How many are in the fully realized vision? Or is the fully realized vision not having to work your own business? That is, the dream...
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Oct 17, 2022 19:32
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Yeah people aren’t just being negative because that’s how people are on the internet. This is a very serious financial pit that a lot of people fall into. And they all talk about it the same way as OP. Things don’t “work themselves out” you make them work out by planning(if you’re lucky). You are going to lose whatever cash you have set aside for this, hurt the people you bring on board, and probably alot more. For gods sake you’ve never even made a donut? This is like goons who decide they’re gonna “get into writing” so they go buy a bunch of the most expensive paper, expensive pens, and a tobacco pipe and figure the actual writing part happens as a result.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:36
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Rationale posted:I just bought a Univex srm 40 for $1630 so you can’t tell me poo poo! -_- bud you're treating my line of work like a big joke and i don't appreciate it. at least spend some time in a successful kitchen or bakery. and do the math on what a wildly successful opening week would look like and then cut it in half, can you survive on that?
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Oct 17, 2022 19:41
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I live in a city that's infested with coffee shops and people who enjoy sweets. Almost all of them outsource the baked goods to a local bakery, because baked goods are a high fixed-cost low-margin venture best made in huge batches. Even those who bake in-house are mostly local chains who do all the baking at a central location. Have you contacted any area bakeries? Are donuts, specifically, the only baked good you would want to sell alongside your high-margin coffee? e: the bakery-first model pops up all the time but generally closes within a couple years. because the unit economics suck rear end and it's very difficult to actually be top dog. also most people don't care how good your pastries are.
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Oct 17, 2022 19:50
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Sundae posted:These threads are so, so predictable every time, troll-OP or not. Is the user name “Zaurg but a donut” taken?
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Oct 17, 2022 19:56
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Powerful Katrinka posted:Remember that you're competing with places that aren't close to your shop, people commute and buy breakfast where it's convenient, which may be closer to their house than their job Ohtori Akio posted:e: the bakery-first model pops up all the time but generally closes within a couple years. because the unit economics suck rear end and it's very difficult to actually be top dog. also most people don't care how good your pastries are. (and both are different from a place that sells small pastries.  )
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Oct 17, 2022 20:05
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