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ImpAtom posted:He speaks all of one (twice if you count the DLC) and his lines are taken directly from the DOOM comic, which has been referenced since at least "Rip and tear... until it is done" from Doom 2016. Arist posted:To my understanding Rage 1 is pretty forgettable, except for that scene in Breaking Bad where Jesse Pinkman plays it with a light gun. Rage 2 is supposed to be somewhat better, I think?
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Mar 28, 2024 18:34
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haveblue posted:Towers can be metaphorical, they're any activity you do where the reward is more activities on the map it had gas stations with bulletin boards but that barely counts one thing that really annoyed me about FFXV when i tried replaying it a few years ago is that the very first mission you get, to look for that big bird, has cool witcher-style moments of tracking it and talking about it, and not only does that never really happen again for any of the hunts but that bird never comes up again in the plot, its just a high level optional hunt you can do via dream traveling later i know the game was basically unfinished but it introduces like a dozen cool things in the first hour and doesnt pay off most of them
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Mar 28, 2024 18:35
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Rageaholic posted:I understand that. I still think it sucks. All the lore in this game is too much. I never wanted deep lore out of a DOOM game. The deep lore of Doom Eternal is "Doomguy, a man who is very angry because demons killed his pet rabbit, kills a bunch of demons, while people around him try to get him to consider consequences and he responds by killing demons." Other stuff is happening but it all runs directly into "Doomguy cares about killing demons and killing demons."
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Mar 28, 2024 18:41
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ImpAtom posted:Other stuff is happening Load bearing phrase, that's the deep lore part. There's reams of bullshit about how Doomguy landed in another dimension, interned with the Night Sentinels, got his space castle, what the robot antagonist from 2016 got up to between games, your AI assistant is God, on and on and on.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:47
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acksplode posted:Load bearing phrase, that's the deep lore part. There's reams of bullshit about how Doomguy landed in another dimension, interned with the Night Sentinels, got his space castle, what the robot antagonist from 2016 got up to between games, your AI assistant is God, on and on and on. There's plenty of that in 2016 too though, all the stuff about Argent Energy and the status of the Earth and whatnot. It just doesn't matter because at the end of the day Doomguy's response is "kill demon"
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Mar 28, 2024 18:49
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Wolfsheim posted:it had gas stations with bulletin boards but that barely counts This is the entire game yeah. The first few hours are like holy poo poo this is awesome and then you find out that's the whole game and then get ushered through a bunch of half-baked linear poo poo for like 7 more hours and then it's done.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:52
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2016 had a way better balance of that stuff, it still wasn't that good but it wasn't nearly as ponderous
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Mar 28, 2024 18:53
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ImpAtom posted:There's plenty of that in 2016 too though, all the stuff about Argent Energy and the status of the Earth and whatnot. It just doesn't matter because at the end of the day Doomguy's response is "kill demon" 2016 has flavor text you can ignore while still following the plot. Whereas you'll have no idea what's happening in Eternal if you don't read the tedious text dumps. Why does Doomguy have a space castle with a Gundam inside it? Who is this Night Sentinel guy and how does he know me? Etc.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:53
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The problems with Eternal's story are embodied by the one level where you fight almost nothing and just walk down a long hallway triggering cutscenes and NPC dialogs You can no longer pretend doomguy is ignoring it because it's getting in the way of you, the player. It's much worse than the office scene in 2016 and that it got approved by the devs means they had lost touch with what people wanted out of a doom game
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Mar 28, 2024 18:58
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acksplode posted:2016 has flavor text you can ignore while still following the plot. Whereas you'll have no idea what's happening in Eternal if you don't read the tedious text dumps. Why does Doomguy have a space castle with a Gundam inside it? Who is this Night Sentinel guy and how does he know me? Etc. I guess I don't get why you'd care about that stuff if you hate the idea of lore. The game allows you to just go and shoot demons in the face. There's no moral choices or quizzes on plot or anything. Like I compare it to something like Devil May Cry where it also has a deep lore or you can just play it and see a dumb dude do cool poo poo and punch his evil brother.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:00
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We're not inherently opposed to the idea of story in a Doom game but it feels like they (heh) lost the plot on what people were there for. It's complicated and laborious and grandiose to no real end. It is empty lore that provides minimal narrative or emotional context and mainly just serves to confuse and convolute. I'm not gonna skip it, because I think that's a silly thing to do, but it's just not very compelling. They could have told a story, but they didn't tell a good one.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:03
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ImpAtom posted:I guess I don't get why you'd care about that stuff if you hate the idea of lore. The game allows you to just go and shoot demons in the face. There's no moral choices or quizzes on plot or anything. Like I compare it to something like Devil May Cry where it also has a deep lore or you can just play it and see a dumb dude do cool poo poo and punch his evil brother. I would like to be able to follow the plot without having to ingest a bunch of bad text, which 2016 allows and is impossible with Eternal. Just because I can ignore the deep lore doesn't mean it isn't there, and doesn't mean the plot makes sense without it. Like even if you want to just answer the very basic question "how did the end of 2016 lead into the beginning of Eternal" you have to read text dumps across the entire game. acksplode fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 19:04
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What plot. Just rip and tear poo poo
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Mar 28, 2024 19:09
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I recommended the RE series to a friend of mine and they were asking me where to start. They askd me if they should play RE1, RE 0 or Sweet Home. Like really Sweet Home? The gently caress is that, might as well go back to Pong.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:12
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cheeseboy58 posted:What plot. haveblue posted:the one level where you fight almost nothing and just walk down a long hallway triggering cutscenes and NPC dialogs I wish "what plot" had been the goal of Eternal's writers, but it clearly wasn't.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:15
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acksplode posted:Why does Doomguy have a space castle with a Gundam inside it? Why wouldn't he?
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Mar 28, 2024 19:20
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To reuse a guy's comparison to DMC, I sure as hell don't wonder why Dante has two guns when one should be enough to shoot demons
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Mar 28, 2024 19:21
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acksplode posted:I would like to be able to follow the plot without having to ingest a bunch of bad text, which 2016 allows and is impossible with Eternal. Just because I can ignore the deep lore doesn't mean it isn't there, and doesn't mean the plot makes sense without it. Like even if you want to just answer the very basic question "how did the end of 2016 lead into the beginning of Eternal" you have to read text dumps across the entire game. I mean Doom 2016 opens up with you being in a mysterious sarcophagus while a mysterious voice tells you to rip and tear and then you have some sort of special armored suit you power up with runes and so little of it is explained that people genuinely theorized that Doomguy 2016 was a space alien or something or maybe Sam "Satan" Hayden was actually the literal devil. In practice the plot is "put on armor, kill poo poo, until you run out of stuff to kill" and Eternal follows the same basic concept. Yeah, it has this stuff, but it isn't important to the plot of 'kill the bad guy.' "Why does Doomguy have a castle" is pretty much on part with "Why is Doomguy sealed away in a mysterious sarcophagus"
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Mar 28, 2024 19:22
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cheeseboy58 posted:What plot. Just rip and tear poo poo It's a loving DOOM game! Get that outta there!
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Mar 28, 2024 19:23
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Rageaholic posted:That should've been the case, but when you go to the game's Wiki page, there's a 5 paragraph long plot summary lmao https://5years.doomworld.com/doombible/doombible.pdf
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Mar 28, 2024 19:24
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You also can't skip the cutscenes.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:25
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ImpAtom posted:I mean Doom 2016 opens up with you being in a mysterious sarcophagus while a mysterious voice tells you to rip and tear and then you have some sort of special armored suit you power up with runes and so little of it is explained that people genuinely theorized that Doomguy 2016 was a space alien or something or maybe Sam "Satan" Hayden was actually the literal devil. In practice the plot is "put on armor, kill poo poo, until you run out of stuff to kill" and Eternal follows the same basic concept. Yeah, it has this stuff, but it isn't important to the plot of 'kill the bad guy.' 2016 has a near-total absence of backstory that means "don't worry about it, it's a reboot". Eternal doesn't follow that at all -- it's a direct sequel to the previous game, and from the jump it's burying you in plot elements that are only explained in hidden lore dumps. quote:"Why does Doomguy have a castle" is pretty much on part with "Why is Doomguy sealed away in a mysterious sarcophagus" No it's really not. 2016 doesn't bother trying to explain its backstory because it's not important to the game. Eternal strains to fill in not only its own backstory, but 2016's as well.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:25
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Most of this didn't make it into the game and the game is all the better for it
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Mar 28, 2024 19:25
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acksplode posted:2016 has a near-total absence of backstory that means "don't worry about it, it's a reboot". Eternal doesn't follow that at all -- it's a direct sequel to the previous game, and from the jump it's burying you in plot elements that are only explained in hidden lore dumps. Doom 2016 has codexs too. Like, they are right there in the game. You can't really go "Oh well Doom 2016 didn't care about any of that stuff, unlike Eternal" when you can find a bunch of backstory and history stuff.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:27
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Damned if you do damned if you don't. You make a sequel that's like the last game but more (Spider-Man 2, HFW, Gow: Ragnarok, Dragon's Dogma 2, Jedi Survivor) and people complain. You make a game that plays differently from the last one in some fashion like DOOM Eternal and people still complain. What's the perfect middle of the road game supposed to be?acksplode posted:I wish "what plot" had been the goal of Eternal's writers, but it clearly wasn't. Well since there seems to be a Metal Gear esq 5 Avengers: Endgame of plot, can you recall two sentences that were said in the game?
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Mar 28, 2024 19:30
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ImpAtom posted:Doom 2016 has codexs too. Like, they are right there in the game. You can't really go "Oh well Doom 2016 didn't care about any of that stuff, unlike Eternal" when you can find a bunch of backstory and history stuff. acksplode posted:2016 has flavor text you can ignore while still following the plot. Whereas you'll have no idea what's happening in Eternal if you don't read the tedious text dumps. RareAcumen posted:Well since there seems to be a Metal Gear esq 5 Avengers: Endgame of plot, can you recall two sentences that were said in the game? My complaint is that there's an entire plot explaining why you're doing what you're doing and it's all buried in bad lore dumps. And I've already rattled off examples of lore stuff I'd rather have not had to learn in the first place
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Mar 28, 2024 19:30
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History Comes Inside! posted:Wasn’t rage basically just an excuse to show off some new super engine nonsense Yeah, it was the main showoff piece for megatextures, which didn’t really set the world on fire but are admittedly pretty nifty. It was also pretty drat good looking and ran at 60fps on the 360, which was kinda rare at the time. Somebody managed to get megatextures working on the N64 a while back too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plh9OGel-lM
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Mar 28, 2024 19:32
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RareAcumen posted:Damned if you do damned if you don't. You make a sequel that's like the last game but more (Spider-Man 2, HFW, Gow: Ragnarok, Dragon's Dogma 2, Jedi Survivor) and people complain. You make a game that plays differently from the last one in some fashion like DOOM Eternal and people still complain. What's the perfect middle of the road game supposed to be? "you can't just shoot a hole into the surface of mars"
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Mar 28, 2024 19:33
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The plot of Doom Eternal is "Demons took over Earth, you are going from place to place killing Demon leadership, oh look angels appear and they are also demons so you kill them too." That is all presented without taking a look at the dreaded lore.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:33
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Any intellectual worth their salt would notice that actually it is Doom 2016 that has too little plot.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:38
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ImpAtom posted:The plot of Doom Eternal is "Demons took over Earth, you are going from place to place killing Demon leadership, oh look angels appear and they are also demons so you kill them too." That is all presented without taking a look at the dreaded lore. The angels don't just appear, they come with their own history with Doomguy that they reference in cutscenes and that leaves me feeling lost on what's going on. Doomguy often demonstrates knowledge of people and events that I know nothing about unless I get into the lore, which takes me out of his shoes, and that sucks. 2016 nailed that aspect perfectly: just like the player, he pops into existence out of nowhere and wants to kill poo poo. We're in sync, our motivations and story are the same.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:42
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if im remembering correctly the entire premise of doom is derived from a dnd game carmack and romero played where they had demons invade the material plane and they spent the whole campaign slaughtering them. so why not a castle and a sarcophagus? that's the sort of random poo poo that'd be in a dnd game too
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Mar 28, 2024 19:47
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acksplode posted:The angels don't just appear, they come with their own history with Doomguy that they reference in cutscenes and that leaves me feeling lost on what's going on. Doomguy often demonstrates knowledge of people and events that I know nothing about unless I get into the lore, which takes me out of his shoes, and that sucks. 2016 nailed that aspect perfectly: just like the player, he pops into existence out of nowhere and wants to kill poo poo. We're in sync, our motivations and story are the same. He doesn't pop out of nowhere! He busts out of an ancient sealed coffin, you're literally shown a hologram of people studying him, you find his suit of armor which is given a dramatic name and treated as an object of reverence. You have no idea what is going on with him unless you read the Slayer Testiment stuff which all states that stuff. There's a magic sword! You have no idea why there's a magic sword or what a Pretorian Suit is but the game sure makes sure to throw them at you. It's just irrelevant because the plot is "You see that thing? Shoot it."
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Mar 28, 2024 19:50
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ImpAtom posted:He doesn't pop out of nowhere! He busts out of an ancient sealed coffin, you're literally shown a hologram of people studying him, you find his suit of armor which is given a dramatic name and treated as an object of reverence. You have no idea what is going on with him unless you read the Slayer Testiment stuff which all states that stuff. There's a magic sword! You have no idea why there's a magic sword or what a Pretorian Suit is but the game sure makes sure to throw them at you. I don't think you're really addressing the nature of the criticism here and it's kind of coming off like you're just annoyed people don't like the story/liked 2016's story more
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Mar 28, 2024 19:51
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impatom is an LLM trained on ten thousand variations of the phrase “well actually”
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Mar 28, 2024 19:53
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Arist posted:I don't think you're really addressing the nature of the criticism here and it's kind of coming off like you're just annoyed people don't like the story/liked 2016's story more Are you kidding? I think Doom 2016 and Eternal's story is absolute trash on any level that isn't "Haha, I shot a hole in Mars.". I just think it's silly people try to act like Eternal is a drat JRPG and Doom 2016 was a loreless exercise in restraint.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:58
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Doom 2016 handled its plot like Metroid Prime did. Doom Eternal handled its plot like Metroid Prime 3 did.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:02
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ImpAtom posted:Are you kidding? I think Doom 2016 and Eternal's story is absolute trash on any level that isn't "Haha, I shot a hole in Mars.". I just think it's silly people try to act like Eternal is a drat JRPG and Doom 2016 was a loreless exercise in restraint. You should probably have mentioned that earlier, and also not made this into a dumb slapfight (with people you seem to mostly agree with) in the first place. This is pure pedantry.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:07
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ImpAtom posted:It's just irrelevant because the plot is "You see that thing? Shoot it." Agreed re: 2016 but this is where Eternal diverges. The mechanics are still see-thing-shoot-it, but that's not the plot anymore. The plot is that before you even start the game Doomguy has started executing his own plan to take down the invasion of Earth by the forces of Space Hell which are led by corrupt Space Heaven which assimilated the bad-times-make-strong-men society Doomguy wandered into after Doom 64 and gave them advanced technology but then got dependent on Hell Energy and that's how they became corrupted and also there was a big war that Doomguy participated in? Like you actually need to know this poo poo just to understand the cutscenes.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:08
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Yeah Eternal's story was bad, but so was 2016 and for mostly the same reason. They're both generic stories with no reason to care about them, equally. The main difference is that in Eternal, it's not mostly taking place in Generic Research Lab 1 or whatever, it's taking place in huge fantasy setpieces and, lore aside, I much prefer those environments. Eternal also gets bonus points for making it all skippable, and even the level that has nothing in it but story stuff you can just just run directly through.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:10
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